journalists have intuitions, this is good , i think we can talk about double standards, if we talk about the position of south africa, then it is actually ambiguous, and including if we talk about the position of the institution of the presidency, because, let's say, his assistant for the national of security, his longtime ally in the struggle. according to party leaders, he said that nothing can justify the attempt to seize territories, that is, it was just the russo-ukrainian war, yes, that is, on the one hand, he says this, on the website of the ministry of foreign affairs there is a statement that south africa, the ministry of foreign affairs, precisely the ministry of foreign affairs adopted on february 24, where it called for the withdrawal of russia from ukraine, but... we know

that in the united nations, south africa abstained, abstained on all resolutions, even on the territorial integrity of ukraine. ah, it is true that south africa participates in all these meetings according to zelenskyi's formula, the last one held in davos, and in particular they are interested in the topic of ukrainian children and the cessation of deportation. termination, i.e. the topic of genocide for them, it plays for them, and it affects them emotionally, but you're right in the sense that what we know about south africa's position, it's more behind the scenes, behind the scenes, they're really working and trying to do something, and the official position, as i told you, is that they're in the united nations, and so i think here we can talk about these, ah... these

double standards, and it's related, well, it's not just in south africa, yeah, i mean, we see it all over the global world, while we had to explain everything, well, literally on our fingers, what is happening in ukraine, what crimes are committed by russia on our territory, well , we know what was the reaction of the global south to the events, to the events in gaza and the condemnation. there are no masses, unfortunately, here we can, you understand, we can say that this is their anti-colonialism, anti-westernism, anti-americanism, it is soaked in mother's milk, and then, well, regardless of who takes any positions, because we know well, the main thing is the economic help to this so-called third world, it comes from somewhere, it comes from the west, well, china is still joining in persecuting the authorities.

interest, but this measure helps the development of the economy, not russia, the same investments of russia in africa, it is 1-2%, and the turnover as well, but the measure is bad, russia is good, and its allies are also good, well, this is the reality, you you know, just yesterday i gave a review lecture at the kyiv and mogilan business schools to businessmen whose training is not so logical, we were just looking at the middle east conflict, and i reminded them that, i don’t know if you, by the way , agree with me, in the year 67, when the arabs were preparing an attack on israel, and in particular by president nasser , the un peacekeeping troops had already been withdrawn to clear the space for a strike from egypt and the blockade of the port of eilat had begun, and israel launched a pre-emptive strike. was absolutely justified from a military

point of view and from a military point of view israel destroyed all its opponents, but politically did it win or lose? and politically, everyone condemned him and everyone said that the seizure of lands outside the borders of the year 67, it was 48 for 48 no-no, exactly in the 67th, because what is up in this and... dox, what is that , which until the 67th year jordan shared the west bank with egypt , for some reason it was considered normal, but everyone recognized it, but when israel completely captured the west bank of the jordan river, it already began to be considered an annexation, so now everyone is talking about returning to the borders 67 year, well, you know, it's also an interesting story that you mentioned this situation, because in 1967, before this preventive strike...

the prime minister of israel, levie shkol, wanted to come to moscow to spend in russia in the soviet union negotiations with their own arab colleagues and prevent war. and then the positions of the arabs were divided, president gamal abdel nasser said that let him come and let's talk with him so that we can concentrate even more forces on the borders, we will just have time to prepare even more. syrian president hafe zasad said: "no, no need, i don't want to speak israeli at all, even if it's a military secret, and thanks to such a wonderful position of president assad, an honest man managed to destroy the egyptian and syrian armies, and by and large, the situation was the same as before february 24, 2020. our prime minister really wanted to negotiate, he really wanted there to be no military strike, he did everything possible to ensure peace, but here are the results, russians, then the leadership of the soviet union, the then head of the council of ministers

oleksiy kasygin, they were absolutely ready to take part in this process and believed that they would destroy israel literally in a few days, just like a blitzkrieg with ukraine, that, by the way, the same kasygin, if we ... let's remember, he was a mediator between pakistan and india, when the next war started, what year was it , 65 or 66, and then, uh, they played, the soviet union played this mediating role, well, then you are absolutely right, that is, the calculation was sure that our arabs would defeat this imperialist israel. and to what extent, in principle, can it be considered that in such a situation, when we see such conflicts, it is possible to think. about some place of ukraine in relations with the countries of the global south. vitaly, you and i will now start the discussion that we always start with you, when we discuss, we discuss this topic. look, that is, the question here is, if the distribution

of our strategic resources, where we should make more efforts, or is it the direction of our allies, which we really. they add, give , give weapons, apply sanctions and so on, although even here we see that we cannot influence everything, and sometimes, perhaps, we even have to stay a little away from the internal political struggle, well, events in the usa, now it is very shows well, along with the fact that, well, i am one of those who think that we are not we can forget about the global south, yes, we just can't forget. and well, people like me , like me, well, they are now in the ministry of foreign affairs and in the office of the president, and actually, because the activation in this direction began, ah, and until the 22nd year, after the attack, those more, because after all, well, it is such

a huge world, and to simply give it up for ransom, for the redemption of russia and russian narratives, well, you can’t, and i say once again that we succeed... when we manage to create this powerful diplomatic coalition in the un, which votes with overwhelming votes for the territorial integrity of ukraine, these are our diplomatic victories, these are our small drops, but which strengthen our position, by the way, we are approaching what will be the anniversary of the war, the second anniversary of the war, so february 24, 24. and according to logic , another resolution should be adopted, well, i don’t want to incite #treason, but again we need to put together a coalition that will vote in

the un in support of the territorial integrity of ukraine, so that at least these numbers are not less than they were before, and here is the entrance are going all means, all means, but again , my approach, it is that, well , look, we have no right to let russia monopolize, even anti-colonial discourse, yes, we also helped the fight against colonialism, by the way, in 94- year, when the first elections were held, the first presidential elections in pairs, well, in which mandela would obviously have won in any case, because ... the majority of africans voted for him, 40 observers from ukraine also went there, so and ukraine hosted many anti-colonial revolutions, we have a dream resolutions, i'm sorry, and we have a full moral

right to ask them for our support now, the question is how to do it, how to reach them, and well... quite, quite an example, literally, this is yesterday in cartagena, in colombia, there was a big, big festival, and... a spanish-language one, and there was a separate session at it, in particular, which was dedicated to victoria amelina, who and this session were made by colombian writers, who were also political figures, who were with her in kramatorsk under time of this bombardment, they made a big event, saw photos, it was completely full, the hall was full, then serhii plakhii spoke, by the way, our historian, with whom you often do. often talks, that is, well, this kind of soft diplomacy, we have to explain and we have

to communicate, and communicate both with the left and with the right in this same latin america, and the same applies to asia and africa as well, why am i asking this, because now in the western media they are talking about the fact that russia has drawn absolutely clear conclusions from what happened in these two years. that she should build a new world in her own relations precisely with the non-west, that the west still thinks that it can end the war in ukraine by restoring the relations that were with russia, well, conditionally speaking, this is the scheme that we can also consider there very often in our analyzes, that is, russia stops war , withdraws troops from the territory of ukraine, recognizes our international physicality , sanctions are lifted, and moscow has a completely different view of these things, that if this is already the case... happened, if it became clear that the west could put sanctions pressure on russia, collapse it

economy, it is generally necessary to create an economic world where there will be no west , well, at least for the russian economy, and this is what russian politicians and economists, by the way, the oligarchs are talking about, this is what oleg diripaska is saying now, who, as you remember, spoke against the war two years ago , and now he opposes the restoration of cooperation with the west, that is, such a global view that russia should be part of the global hemisphere. this is the way out of the situation, then you can ignore the event, as if it does not exist with its economic requirements, well, mr. vitaly, it is realistic, well, i am asking you, you know answer, i think it is unrealistic, yes , and even if we look at the same brics expansion, because it is a real attempt to create such a non-western bloc, well, we have to understand that it will not be dominated by russia, it will be dominated by china will dominate. and russia will only use it for propaganda meetings, well, in particular

, the next brics meeting, it should take place in russia, and we can imagine how russian propagandists will use all this, but let's see, if we look behind this rhetoric, how much the same brics is the only one, well let's think like this, who is the main threat to india, it's a rhetorical question, it's the west, no , it's... china, everyone knows it, and the indians know about it, and everywhere they write about it, so when it's necessary, yes , india is in brics, but now, by the way, a situation has arisen when arms exports from russia have begun to fall, and for the first time russia is not the main supplier of arms to india, it is france, that is, the usa is also gradually supplying arms. to india, because india's security guarantees can be given primarily by the west, and not by this mythical coalition

brics, again, let's see , well, iran came to brics, the emirates came, it seems, too, yes, there are other plans, well, let 's see again, and who is the main threat to the monarchy of the persian gulf, saudi arabia, moderate arab regimes . is it israel or is it the west? you and i know the answer very well, we know that in all these countries there are american military personnel on an official basis, and they have bases and locations in saudi arabia, the emirates, and kuwait and bahrain, who is it against? it is clear that against iran, so on a rhetorical level, i think there's really going to be a lot going on in order to present this brics somehow. the western world , the russians will draw maps, that's who 's with us, who's with us, most of the world, well in

that case i always suggest no no no no wait let's not look at the brix map let's look at the voting map in of the un on territorial integrity in ukraine, it is immediately clear who is who is with russia, and these are several countries, and most of the countries are supported by ukraine, or abstained, yes, in the same way as the same south africa, or... or india , so, well, the dangers are certainly there and these trends, let's say the fact that iran is joining brics for me, or has already joined brics. not a positive example for me at all , well, but argentina refused to join brics, by the way, brics is now being eroded , you see, because when brics was created, it was, after all, a union of countries that play a central role in economy, in politics, in its regions, now

ethiopia appears there, one of yes, ethiopia has merits right in front of the global south of the fight against colonialism, this is the headquarters, there is the african union, but it is not just one of the poorest countries in the world, a country that is currently torn by civil war, that is why i think that this is the further expansion of brics, it will be more to use, if only from a propaganda point of view, there are so many of us. but inside, this world will remain very amorphous, well, by the way, as it was with the same non-aligned movement, or group 77 and so on, well, the non-aligned movement still exists, we simply stopped reading news about him , he exists, different countries are sitting there, by the way, azerbaijan is a member of

the non-alignment movement, no one ever mentions it, but this is such a fact of his political orientation, no, it exists. of course, yes, and here to, by the way, we can often hear the argument, well, from such countries as southern africa, or from someone there, indonesia, for example, that we do not send there, or from brazil itself, that we do not send weapons, weapons to ukraine, we do not join the sanctions because , because we are a non-aligned movement, this is tradition the non-alignment movement is not true, the tradition of the non-alignment movement is completely different, the tradition of the non-alignment movement was precisely the struggle, the consistent struggle against colonialism and support for the victims of aggression against the aggressor, that is why we work in this direction, we try to convince, we try to appeal where perhaps to those

societies, public, civil societies, which are in the same southern region. africans, yes, these are universities, these are non-governmental organizations that take care of the rights of children and women, this topic touches them very much, suffering children and women, we hold round tables with them, well, we, i say, it's not only a burial ground or a deminitiative fund, i say in general that ukrainian civil society, we prepare joint notes with them and will present it to them. and in pairs, and then i hope at the events of the african union in addis ababa. well, you know, i always think, where can you do geraniums more on the front or on this diplomatic front, well, obviously, you know it, so drop, drop, drop, but we need it, we need it, we have it, we have it, we

we should do it, do it, also, by the way , this year i visited davos for the first time and, well, first of all, the ukrainian part of davos, that is, ukraine house, that is, it can even be said that it is tangential to davos, it is not an official program devos, but i had to listen to the speeches of the president, and several speeches of minister kuleba, and i want to say that kuleba as a communicator, he is very... good, he is very good, here at these forums, where different countries and countries are present of this global south, he performs very well as a communicator, well, we have to look further, what will actually happen, because it has already been announced that switzerland will be the place where a global summit will be held, ah,

about russian aggression in ukraine, about finding a way out. well, it’s good to say about it, it’s good that the swiss agree, but 80 representatives of the country’s organizations took part in this fourth meeting on ukraine, according to zelenskyi’s peace formula, but there is work and work, that is, i think that we ourselves still do not fully imagine , what we can, or what we really want to achieve from it global... summit and what, what results, perhaps there is a certain strategy here, you know, as they say, strategic uncertainty, yes, which gives room for maneuver, but i think... that the numbers are good, that already 80 countries and organizations take part in this, but we understand that they all hold different, different views, even

if they condemn russian aggression, so we have to think about what exactly we want to achieve from this so that it is a real success , not just a shared photo. thank you thank you, mr. oleksii, oleksii haren, professor of political science. kyiv-megylian academy, scientific director of the democratic initiative foundation named after lik kucheriv. we 're going to break for a couple of minutes now, but stay with us. ordinary things become unreal. heavy bags are not for my sore back. for back pain, try dolgit cream. long-acting cream relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility. with cream doolgit, what do you want to drink. dolgit - the only yellow cream for pain in the joints and back with muscle spasms dolgit tablets anti-convulsions dolgit antispasmodics to relax muscles and

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we continue the saturday political clubs on the espresso tv channel, no, not saturdays, sundays. konstantin zhivago, investor, entrepreneur, philanthropist. we are in touch. congratulations, mr. konstantin. congratulations, congratulations. well, let's start with this relationship situation, which arose in recent days. well, it did not arise the other day, this situation between the government and business has worsened in recent days, the president proposes to create a council to support entrepreneurship, businessmen met with

the head of state in the background. delayed, mr. mazepa, what do you think all this will lead to realistically? vitaliy, thank you for this question, dear viewers, i want to tell you that this is only the tip of the iceberg, what happened to mr. mazepoev is the only case when it received such a resonance, apparently, this was the last straw, in general, in this cup, already when the business cannot... tolerate this abuse that the law enforcement agencies arrange for it, because we are still today, although mmzp was released there for 21 million bail in the appellate office judges, but today we have many, if not dozens, if not hundreds, then dozens of people who are under bail, demanded by the state security bureau, the prosecutor's office, the sbu, for a total amount of more than 100, 200, 300, 500 million, well, i wish you to give an example that in a public

company forex the chairman of the board... received 30 days in a pre-trial detention center, and after the company paid uah 400 million in bail, the person was released, released, based on completely fabricated criminal proceedings that have no prospects in court, and the most important thing is that the company has been doing what for 50 years she does, for the 51st year they said, no, you did something wrong, and therefore there, sorry, please pay 4 billion dollars, not hryvnias, even dollars of bail, but the appeals court reduced this amount. up to uah 400 million, up to uah 400 million, what does this lead to, what will this lead to, what is happening now in the relationship between the government and business, the government does not listen to business at all, does not understand business at all, unfortunately, this is already happening in the fifth year, the end of the fifth year of the mandate of this government, and although b for now, already today, when you and i arrive in the month of january, in the month of march, they arrive

for... the powers of the president, who was elected precisely in the 19th year in the elections that began in the month of march, today 5 years after form a council of relations between the government and business, well, in my understanding, that's what it's about says that it is the relationship between the government and business, we will remove the deaf as a relationship, that is, forgive me that for 5 years the government did not listen to business at all, business tried to somehow survive during the war, it is very difficult, but today even business. he does not need any help, and the most important thing is that he should not be interfered with, not disturbed by all these eyes, forgive me, law enforcement agencies, which today do not at all, at all, understand that business is jobs, business is taxes, taxes are just that what we feed our state with today, and most importantly, how do we finance the armed forces of ukraine, because the western partners do not give us money and will give us money, it has been stated for many years, they will not give to the armed forces of ukraine, we must, as a self-sufficient state, finance the armed forces

ourselves. well, this is a good question, how to finance the armed forces independently, taking into account the tax scale that we have, and the shadow that always creeps up on this tax scale from different sides. vitaly, this question was not actually invented by us, and it did not come to us now, such a question has existed for the last 10 thousand years , as long as there are wars, they must be financed somehow, and we know that ours is not the worst, but this one. of medieval history regarding how wars were financed either by the countries themselves, or by some kind of royal family there, or by some foreigners or partners. in our situation, of course, we have to finance it ourselves. and we would very much like to have a self-sufficient economy that would finance through taxes exactly those armed operations and that armed activity that we have today against the aggressor, protecting our

country, but you... started our conversation with the question of the relationship between business, the economy and the government, and you see that the government does not understand at all what the economy is, what business is, what it needs in order to develop, to finance, the business has no patience and the patient is already tearing up, when the steam is just coming out and the steam is going on, if people are not released from prison, if they are not removed right now , these far-fetched criminal cases, which simply never existed under the previous government, they began to... began to exist under the so-called already to the late yanukovych, but the late yanukovych was overthrown at the end of the 13th, the beginning of the 14th year, but today we understand that the government does not care at all about the question of what is business, what is industry, what is industry, i said in our previous meetings , excuse me, when any official does something about business, he should first understand whether we are losing jobs, whether we are losing

wages, because... if we, say, the national bank closes.