literature, to replace it, for example , with the literature of european countries, because we know that there are wonderful, wonderful authors, i think, of course, there are, there were also outstanding authors in russian literature that you study, but i would, for example, replace urgenev for any of the european authors, well, of course there are no such super novelists as tolstoy or dostoyevsky, yes, but there are good ones.

i would like to answer in the same way regarding the division of literature, but tell me what is the most important thing for ukrainians now in this perception of russian literature, to understand that it imperial or to understand that it is foreign? you know i think you know the answer to that. a country that's powerful like russia , for example, they can direct our attention, they can somehow by default capture our brains, rent our brains without even paying us for it, yes, that's how it works, they want to make you were interested in the fact that there from... they were presented with,

for example, bulgarian literature, for example, if you were to say, to ukrainians, bulgarian authors, then they would not want, why, because they do not feel this power, this power the majesty that they feel from russia , secondly, russia, after all, had very... very many outstanding writers, great writers, and here i will mention tovstvo and dostoyevsky, there are many other writers, but there are many such authors and in europe and in other parts of the world. i have already mentioned flaubert, and balzac, and dickens, and many others, their works are fascinating, and therefore it would be worthwhile to include their works in

the study, that is, to shift the focus of attention of ukrainian society, and that is why it is a little difficult depart from this paradigm, because in they really have good works, good studies, and in the end we understand the historical location of ukraine, because at some point, i simply moved away from these... works , replaced them with those that are worthy of attention, and deep human feelings, and to understand the depth of human desires, human desires, and therefore, we know when we understand, yes, these are beautiful literary works, and there is nothing sad about it, and i want to note that dostoevsky's. and he

had his own certain prejudices against catholicism, and he just built up, probably hatred for western europe, why? because he just was in such a confrontation with representatives of catholicism, and expressed it on paper , so when we talk about literary works... the accuracy of such works is combined with colonialism, with the echo of it, with the prejudices that they nurtured, yes, they are true, justified from their point of view , but again, there is such an interest in it, because there really is something great, something more, and that's why we read them, we also understand that these works were popularized and not without just this great. servants and power

that the russian empire had, again everything it's extremely complex, and that's why we can't... such a big picture, because when you read, you just agree with what you read, and it appeals to you, and there's no feedback, and that's why indeed it works with dostoyevsky, it works with others, especially his descriptions of the actual war with napoleon, when, when he said there was no. just some nation between france and germany, that is, the people who read this , they understand, yes, there were no such nations, there was no france, there was no germany, only after the second world war they appeared, so again, it invests in people, people have meanings, they come to

a certain understanding after reading these works, and so there is this attraction, this majesty that we are talking about, that is why we really are another thing always surprised me was that a huge number of people in the west studied russian literature very carefully, i would say by the letters of tolstoy, dostoyevsky, chekhov, turgeny, and most of these writers, as always happens. such outstanding writers basically wrote the truth about the russian character, they it is clearly described, people read it, analyzed it, defended theses , wrote books, but never understood russia politically, never understood what the russian government is capable of, what russian

society looks like, why studying these books did not help anyone, to make a correct analysis. i wrote about this in one of my books, but unfortunately, i cannot say that russian literature gives us this portrait of real russians, real russia. unfortunately, when we talk about dostoyansky, yes, this is not russia, these are concrete ideas, but when we we are talking about a fat man, then... i want to say that there are specific characters in his novels, in his stories, these were people from these are not average people, no, these are the aristocracy, these are the higher circles of society, and therefore, it is precisely them described war and peace,

yes, it was about barons and others, that is, people who had specific titles, but this is not russian society, it is far from it. that is now the russian society, that is, it is one of the largest, it is so, it is such, it is such a lie of a great rank, and we are all delusional, after reading these books, these books, but when we look, for example , at the novels that were written in france or in great britain, you see that when it came to the actual royal circles, you would very rarely see such people as would be described in the novels themselves, why? because classic novels, they describe ordinary people , ordinary englishmen, ordinary scotsmen, so now it will be wrong to say, in fact, that russian literature shows us this and that

character of russia, it is not quite that, because on the one hand it is such a struggle of ideas, it is to me it seems to be with dostoevsky, on the other hand. year this is a presentation of the best that russia can offer, when we are also talking about the arrestocracy, which do not have the problems that exist, which were then in russian society, for them it is easy, for them life is a pleasure, they do not have such problems, it is not easy for them to make certain material decisions, they always have enough finances, that is, this is the basis of such a fairy tale. russian aristocracy, but this is not a presentation of such a true russian society. tell me why, in your opinion , the greatest russian writers are always in critical moment and in the 19th century and in the 20th turned out to be reactionary, political.

pushkin, who supported the overthrow of the polish uprising, dostoevsky, who always opposed the polish national movement, salzhenitsyn, who wrote. and then demanded the actual annexation of ukrainian, belarusian, and kazakhstani lands, because putin, by and large , is simply implementing the political program of solzhenitsyn. there is nothing to add here, how did it happen, people saw evil, protested against evil, but then they supported it politically, my opinion here is this, russians, they are so immature, they are really at such an infantile level when we talk about awareness and understanding. what constitutes greatness and what they need to work on as a nation in order to become

a great nation, for russia to rise in this world. russia believes that the best thing for them is to conquer, it is to bite off pieces from their neighbors, they want to increase their territories, their borders. again, it just doesn't fit in their head, that's their understanding. someone like that, maybe a russian, maybe the germans once had such a mania, but again well, a country that wants to act in this way , increasing its borders, i don’t know, maybe they will go even further somewhere, we see that other countries in europe, in particular, live without borders, but again, this is actually an infantile approach to vision of the world, and this is only a part. problems when we talk about russians, because they are really smart,

they are like that, they have excellent relations with the public, but deep inside they do not understand what makes a nation great, unfortunately, because we are also talking about the works of outstanding writers , and the study of large researchers, and ultimately good deeds. people who dedicate themselves to someone, but again , in this case, we are only trying to denationalize other countries and join them to russia? but in your opinion, what should be done with the presentation of ukrainian literature? ukrainian literature is one of the great slavic literatures, both in terms of the time of its creation, and in terms of the number of readers, and in terms of the amount of what was written in the ukrainian language in literature, and together with this, it is a literature almost unknown in europe,

which always remained not even in the shadows in russian, but just somewhere on a very distant margin, only now, in connection with this war, europe is starting to look closely at ukrainian culture, how to make it so that it is not a temporary interest, of course it must be published. of course, this requires resources , financial resources, but we know that ukraine does not have these resources now, a lot of money is spent on defense, and that is why i want to say that when the war ends, and it ends, it will be necessary to push this country so well actually translation of works of ukrainian literature, in particular in english, because if your

works are in english, then the whole world will read them, there is no doubt, this is the only way to do it, you can also write literary articles about ukrainian works, but again , to attract a larger audience, you need to translate and these articles, that is , it is necessary all the time. ukraine has a desire, they have a great spirit because of this war, and the world will look at ukraine, ukrainians , with what courage they stood, that is why ukraine is now on the right path, in particular, when we talk about advancing its literature, but now is actually not the moment when you can invest everything. finance, because the war , the war is going on, the main focus is actually on military

actions, and this needs more attention now than literary studies and translation, if we return to russian literature, in your opinion, it is, after all , russian literature in terms of its reach to the reader, or indeed the literature of moscow and st. petersburg, because i was always surprised in russian literature by the fact that the vast majority of those who wrote. some serious things, lived or in in one or another capital, and a writer from a russian province, had the attention of a russian reader and... a reader abroad, extremely in some special cases, very rarely in the entire history of russian literature, several surnames of non-moscow writers, as a matter of fact , this has never been the case in european literature seems to me to be such a difficult question because it is really possible to simply

reduce russia to the level of moscow and st. petersburg, that's right. people who live, for example, in vladivostok and speak russian, do they consider themselves russian, i don't know whether they belong to the same nation as those who live in these two cities, but i think that it is the writer's decision who he wants to be, whether he is a russian writer, whether he is just a russian-speaking buryat or someone else, i think that... because a lot of people who belong to these other national minorities within the russian federation, they, if they want to write in their language, that's fine, but someone can consider themselves russian, but not represent themselves as part of the russian cultural heritage i am personally at the event

never encountered any prejudice. or about the origin of the writer, or, for example, whether he is an american writer, from which university he went, no, there is no such thing, but someone, for example, if someone is from russia, then he is, he is a part of russian literature, it is logical, therefore it's really hard to answer that question, but i think things sort themselves out, given all the circumstances, the post-war circumstances, and so i just... let the russians go free to do what they want, but what gotta do it really to translate works of ukrainian literature into english, a number of translators would have to work on it, so that this flow was uninterrupted. and that's why it will help other european countries to better understand

ukrainian life, ukrainian character. and tell the readers about this. reprint of your book, what would you advise to pay attention to in the current circumstances in which ukraine is? when i wrote the book, of course, i could not imagine that there could be such a war on the european continent, and indeed it all happened unexpectedly , i want to say that i would like the readers... everyone to start reading, if they have not read or reread the works of tolstoy, the works of dostoyevsky, so that they understand what i wanted to convey, what was their greatness , which was that they misled the whole world, that they wanted to point out

that napoleon intended to conquer russia, but... we understand what napoleon's intentions were, that is, the historical context is somewhat distorted here. i would like people to reread war and peace, and that they differently perceived what was falsified. i would also say that i would like them. wrote such and such an essay on my book, such feedback on my book, so that they would continue the reflections that i present, so that they might see other writers, for example, those who are now alive and working in russia, that is, they would understand why they

why did they agree at all, why did they allow a tyrant to exist in their country. and lyusha, this is just a person who could fall under justice, but no, you see, they allow, well, many ukrainians now he will tell you that he would no longer want to read books by russian classics and modern russian writers, so all this is temporary, temporary, bory of russian literature, right? let them read dickens, let them read flaubert. let ukrainians read others. after, we will understand that , of course, after some time comes

, when the generation grows up, yes, it will be necessary to introduce russian literature again, but once again to direct the angle from which, the angle from which this will have to be perceived literature, i think that this is not possible to make ukrainians completely unaware of what russia is. literature, i.e. temporarily, completely stop teaching in schools, this will help integrate the ukrainian audience, in fact, into the european reading culture. tell me, do you believe that modern russian literature can get rid of this imperial format, or on the contrary, it will now only acquire it and regain it. yes, indeed, it is difficult to answer somehow, but we, we hope that russia

in some period of time, they will realize, they will grow up that you can't take over other countries, you can't subjugate them, it doesn't add to the greatness, because such a... country, such an empire pays for it very dearly if they are defeated, like the germans, at the end of the second world war , only after that people began to think, and maybe hitler was not so good for us, for us, so the germans thought, maybe after russia is defeated, then the russians will start to think differently, they will understand that he is from by the nose, but then again, if... if, if hitler no, he was not defeated, perhaps he would still be prayed for and believed in what he professes,

so here it is clearly necessary to persevere, because if he captured ukraine, then everyone would consider him a great leader, the father of the russian nation, and so similar, but i think that it is important for russians to understand that we are like that... we can't change much from the outside, we just have to act on our front and convey the truth to others, to our audience, to our readers. what would you wish for those researchers who will deal with russian literature and its influence on ukrainians, if any, if it will happen precisely in ukrainian research centers, what should they pay attention to first of all. well, here everything depends on their own

preferences, likes, and something seems better to someone, one thing, to someone else, and i want to warn such researchers so that they do not fall into a trap when they start thinking that if you... . to perceive all recent postmodern ideas, for example, if we combine the struggle for ukraine, for ukrainian sovereignty, i don't want to go like this, you know, somehow, well of course there are different ideas in the intellectual space, but we know that they are popular now, so if you try. to join the group of researchers who offer some new ideas, if you help ukraine with this, then i will tell them: do not

waste your time, because you will simply be used and no good or good, ukrainian studies will not bring it, so i want to wish them to continue reading anti-colonial literature. but let them read people, let them read modern authors, authors who have gained world recognition, sometimes it can to be such profound philosophical works, but it is necessary to study them, to understand their thoughts, in fact, to look at russian literature from a different angle. thank you, thank you, mrs. eva, we spoke with eva thompson, author of troubadours of empire, a book devoted

precisely to colonial discourse. in russian culture, in russian literature, that colonial discourse, which has always, i would say, determined the work of the most famous russian writers, whose portraits were relatively recently in every ukrainian school, who were studied, if not in russian lessons, in the lessons of world literature, and here, as you can see, mrs. eva thompson did not at all... deny the literary genius of many of these writers, who still remain one of the most respected authors among european and american readers and researchers, but what ukrainians for some reason for some reason i don't understand, they didn't pay attention to the fact that all these classics, all these famous writers were carriers of the imperial discourse of their own country,

simply because ... this country was an empire, and this is an absolutely logical conclusion that everyone, who lived in the russian empire, in the soviet union, should have done something about the content of this culture with which he was dealing, but for reasons that are still unclear to me, for some reason he did not, but now we have books that people from other countries, as you can see, put together for us, all these dots above and... which should have been placed by ourselves a long time ago, we sincerely thank them, thank you ms. evie thompson for this conversation and thank you, dear viewers, for being with us on this broadcast, i want to say goodbye with you, until the next meetings on television espresso channels. good luck, good luck.

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