arrival, this is also a whole story, when i am in telyavu and walk there on zenghof street, i remember being told that the old residents of the city, that this street all spoke german , because they were german jews who escaped from hitler, not from a good life, they did not want to go there to palestine by and large, because it was absolutely some kind of civilization far from them, but they survived, i was once in hamburg at an exhibition dedicated to... the great german poet elsa lasker schurer , she was one of the few a jew of german intellectuals of jewish origin who survived because she decided that she believed, not being a sianist, being a brilliant german poet so, you know, german, so decadent, moved to palestine, and there were these two photographs at once that showed, how things have changed, you know, like this... the lady we saw in the films

of the 20s with a long cigarette, in such a woman, such a hairstyle, suit, leather shoes, outfits, this is berlin, and next to her, she is already a little bogged down lady in this asian dress, combed like this this manner of our grandmothers, this is jerusalem, her to... she actually changed her identity from this trip of hers, and by and large, it was not only a loss of identity for her, that german culture lost a great poet who was one of those who created what we think of as german civilization, so there is a lot to think about, but i say again that for me the conclusion from the holocaust, this is what concerns the memory of my relatives, this is why it is necessary at all. .. nation-state,

this is a great lesson to all that if you don't have of a state capable of standing up for you, the soviet union did not evacuate jews from the occupied territories, although it knew exactly what would happen to them, it issued all these evacuation certificates, only to those it needed, well, at military enterprises, somewhere else, somewhere else , and in general mass of ordinary people, but it remained to wait for destruction, because the soviet government was not a jewish government, it was, if you like, a russian government, well, in fact, it was russian, whatever it invented about itself, it was a russian government, a russian the soviet government, he didn't care about everybody else, and the only government, as it turns out, that can protect the jews at this critical moment is the israeli government, politically, because the jews are becoming, the israelis are becoming a political nation, because the only government , which... can protect the ukrainians, this

is the ukrainian government, not in the end, if anything , we will also understand this, in the modern world, if something so shocking happens, we will have to remember again that there are ukrainian governments here, there is a ukrainian the state, because at the end, let's say so, at the final moment trials, it may turn out that even the country where you live there for 10 or 20 years, even the country of the passport that you have, will not think of you, and that can be disappointing, but on the other hand, if... you have state , you will know that you will be accepted in this state unconditionally, so what is, in principle , what we did in 1991, if you like, it is also one of the consequences, one of the results of what happened in europe during the second world war world war eh, ukrainian jews, they are quite different, because there are those who remember some jewish traditions, somehow continue them, and there are those, i have, as you say, everyone has a jewish friend, a friend of mine once told me that i have... jewish roots, i

say, well, what is there in your family, is there really something that was passed down from grandfather, great-grandfather, survived, he raised his shoulders and said: i don't know, i'm saying, then your family, unfortunately, became the family that was simply ground up and turned into an ordinary soviet family? well, on the one hand, yes, on the other hand , agree that we understand what a modern nation is, not necessarily when it comes to religious traditions, that people... there pray in a synagogue or in a church , with a large number of ukrainians, also a huge number of people there are not, let's say, religious, do not celebrate religious holidays, but feel themselves ukrainians, and by the way, this is some thing that is, as you say, some kind of stronger than man, i see a huge number of times that people, whom you call soviet people, who did not remember their jewish origin, came to jerusalem, i just saw it with my own eyes. as it suddenly happened

, they began to feel a connection, i saw people who said they weren't jewish, but the moment they heard folk songs, they knew for sure they were their songs, even though they could. not to sing their parents and grandfathers, we had , like the ukrainians, by the way, a generation was missed in the soviets, this is the generation, relatively speaking, of my parents, because it was a struggle against cosmopolitanism, intimidation , wild anti-semitism, people were simply afraid, but this is for exactly one generation, from the generation of grandfathers to the generation of grandchildren, this connection has been restored again, i am already part of this restored, well, generation, well, sorry, we are 200 years old years of living on this land produced one generation, it is not so big for us, not such a big blow, it is a long story, you understand, just like the ukrainians, if they produced a couple of generations there during the 2000 years of living on the territory of russia, because they were russified,

if we take the development of this, i would say the ethnos from the times of the kyiv principalities, the kyiv principalities, and the chernihiv principalities, relatively speaking, to... today's ukraine, how many years ago, it's about 2 thousand years, and since then, there have been moments when ukrainians were polonized there, there were moments when ukrainians were russified, but somehow they remained ukrainians, although there were some generations that forgot traditions, you can make exactly the same claims to anyone, the main thing is to be durable, i was always interested in the other in the jews of ukraine, i even once wrote an article in 1991, i think, the ukrainian jew is like a rich bird, and i compared it in... this is a person who may or may not know his traditions there, to be a secular person, he feels herself a jew, but she speaks polish, she is a part of polish society, she is interested in the polish state, polish civilization, these are two parts that make her a polish

jew, such as hungarian, hungarian and so on and so on, that is, it is romanian romanian , and what is ukrainian, for the most part it is a russian-speaking person, actually yes, but also ukrainians, but why, because the ukrainian himself is russian. to him in russian and to his wife in russian. in order for ukrainian jews to appear, one important condition was needed, that they appear themselves ukrainians, as a nation-building nation that itself speaks the ukrainian language, and that itself is proud of its statehood, history , and culture, and does not want to conform to its elder brother, and then people who have, relatively speaking, make up national minorities in this country, not only jews, but jews also, jews are an indicator, by the way. they become ukrainian, and this happened over the past 30 years, recently i was here often with my good friend, an israeli diplomat, who was also born in ukraine, he told me: do you remember what happened in general during these last ukrainian jews appeared for 10 years, and when i

repatriated to israel, they were not there, well, i certainly could not say that they were not there, there were some single people, uh, at whom we looked with... , thinking how they were the bearers of this ukrainianness, being jews, and they were also different, there was grandfather panas, ugh, the actor wexler, who was simply, i would never even have suspected him of being jewish, because he was simply for i was the embodiment of ukrainian, then i realized how close it is, if he is a person, but he is not played, he was like that in the essence of his character, there was, say, the ukrainian poet abram katsnelson, who wrote poems in the ukrainian language, managed the laboratory of young ukrainian poets, virpeni and many people, even famous classics of ukrainian poetry, i don’t even want to just name names, because that's right, these people created such an image for themselves that i don't even want to tell if they wrote in russian,

but he converted them to the creativity of the ukrainian language, because when this tsivachola man of jewish origin with the surname katsnelson came up and asked: "why do you write so cutely in russian?". somehow it became conscientious and people returned to their culture and so many people, so here, but it could not be called mass, it could not be called community consciousness, it happened before our eyes, it is such a miracle, by the way, as a miracle , this is what happened to the ukrainian people, so a miracle is what happened to ukrainian jewry, we were able to do such things, as a rule , people do not see them, in which historical eras they take place, and we can only read about it in history textbooks, generally what we see today in ukraine. as a rule , it is read in history textbooks, you and i, witnesses, can talk about it as journalists, in general, journalists do not talk about it in the program, historians talk about it at seminars, some books, then they will tell about this era, which we can discuss with you on television, this is such

a gift of fate, but another historical event that we are watching is what is happening now between israel and palestine, and now israel is now accused of this... they are carrying out a genocidal policy regarding the gas sector, well, it is interesting that the international court of the un, to which the south african republic appealed, it... partially satisfied his claim and did not issue a decision on a ceasefire in the gas sector, which is usually a serious defeat for those who filed this claim, because for them it was important that there was a decision on the temporary provision of this claim, israel was no longer accused of genocide, but an investigation was started, and temporary measures were introduced, these temporary measures oblige israel to take measures which would have prevented the gas genocide until... the court decided whether there was genocide, but the most important thing would be that if the international court of the un had found that israel should

cease fire, israel would not have ceased fire, and then it would have been accused, that he violates the decision of the international court of the united nations. this was a diplomatic idea that failed. and it is also a very interesting point that, in principle, the organizers of this lawsuit, they did not say a single word about the israeli hostages who are in... in the hands of hamas, they didn't say a single word about the fact that hamas carried out this attack on israel, in a situation where israel itself had no idea about any operation in the gas sector, and this is also telling to a certain extent about certain double standards, you see, we hear all the time that the conflict in the middle east proved to the global cock that the west adheres to these standards, and we say this as some kind of absolute thing that does not even need to be polemicized, but i interestingly,

there is this great modern figure cyril lamafos, who is accused of corruption, who accuses his predecessor of corruption and released him from prison after a visit to moscow, by the way, because there was no place in prison for him, poor thing, they did not find a place for president tabombeki, that's it this person who filed... a lawsuit against israel, ugh, she went to moscow in complete peace , kissed there with vladimir putin, the troops bombarding the civilian population, despite the fact that ukraine did not attack russia, we are not hamas, we did not attack anyone, ours the territories are occupied, they are shelled , every day civilians and children die in our country, it can certainly not be called genocide, who are we compared to the palestinian arabs, no one... but this must be taken into account, these troops were there

they killed, raped, robbed, destroyed in the butches, bards and other places that have already become a symbol of genocide for europe, and cyriler mofos did not even think about it , at least to tell comrade putin, uh, well, to express some of his opinion, even in contrast from someone there is the same thing on rendremod, did not tell him that war is bad, but just wants the parties to somehow cease fire, as if we are one and the same participants in this conflict, did not leave brics, did not break relations with the russian federation, did nothing, moreover, he tried somehow to make putin come to him in johannesburg, and then he was simply afraid that the south african court, which does not obey him to the end, could arrest putin and be benz, and convinced putin not to fly, but was there lavrov, a representative of this. genocidal regime, why should we seriously pay attention to any lawsuits that cyril ramofos

is filing with his campaign to the international court of justice of the united nations, seriously, this is a real double standard, you see, this is a question that should really be considered, and show all the cynicism in... of all these countries that tell us about genocide, the population of palestine, so-called, and there is nothing good in the death of peaceful people anywhere, and a palestinian child, just as pitiful as jewish or ukrainian, it doesn't even need to be explained, but again we remember with you all these stories when israeli hostages are in... palestinian families and they protect them, but recently there was a story about a hostage

who escaped from captivity, he was later found out about it only because he was released, released, by the way, because he had a second russian passport, and his release was such a demonstration of putin's capabilities that he released several people there, but it's an israeli huh he escaped from... and was found by ordinary peaceful palestinians and handed over to hamas, well, peaceful residents, well, that's also a lot. speaks, so when we speak, listen , there are militants, and there is a civilian population that does not participate in anything at all, they are hostages, well, they are about as hostages as the russian hostages of putin, so we are talking to you now, you see, how many people are standing in lines to sign these signature sheets for boris nadezhdin, who is a very conditional

anti-war candidate, but he at least says that he wants to stop the war, and so look, they are standing in lines, no one touches them, right? yes, well, if they really wanted to stop the war, there would be 10 times more, 100 times more, we would see it, that is, it turns out that you, we say that russia is an authoritarian country, there they put everyone in prison, when you wear one pantyhose to a famous place, come to some club, then you are rinsed on all television channels, that's all clear, but it turns out that when you participate in a procedure that is authorized by the authorities, you have the opportunity to express your civil position without consequences, and these people, there are many, many of them for such a totalitarian country, but definitely not so much that we said that the russian population is part of this russian chauvinistic plan, this also says a lot, so when they say that the civilian population no no does not participate in anything, the civilian population tolerates such regimes, the civilian population of the gas sector elected hamas in

the parliamentary elections and would elect it again if there were free elections now, with a greater result. the civilian population of russia chose putin and will elect him again, i think that even in fair elections, i would have elected maybe not from such a number, this is also important to remember, and this is also an illustration of this whole situation, if hamas militants thought about their own civilian population, they would definitely not have taken hostages, they would have released them, because they had an opportunity for a truce, they would have improved the conditions for their own civilian population, so that they could return to those places where there is none. militants, they want these people to be a human shield, and for some reason , all these supporters of theirs are behind juanesburg, i.e. from the pretoria, they don't even think about it, because unfortunately, during the time when they were active in political activities during the struggle for the parteids, they did the same thing, that 's the problem, that's why they understand hamas better than israel. we are talking today about

genocide, and actually, whether this deportation of children, the mass of ukrainian... children to russia, is it ultimately recognized as genocide, as actions that i mean, that have the characteristics of genocide, of course, because this is an actual deliberate intervention here is an attempt to artificially change the composition of the population of a certain territory composition of the population, to change the identity against the will of the people, against the will of the parents, against the will of the children themselves. and that's why, by the way, you know that the accusation brought against putin by the hague tribunal is related to the deportation of children. we simply did not even understand, i think, before this accusation was made, what profound consequences such actions have. putin will not understand, he does not understand such things at all. he, if he had understood, he would not have admitted this under the cameras, he did not understand at all what he was does bad things, why? because, according to the russian

tradition, halopy is property. he, for him it's about the same as they stole the enterprise. once upon a time in the luhansk and donetsk regions, when they did not think of annexing them, but simply made them a springboard for an attack, they took out all the enterprises from there, but what is the difference between a machine and a person, it can work for the master, and that is why he is so calm with i discussed it with this lvova bilova, since it was about some things, well, this is probably the attitude of russians towards children, they believe that it is also some kind of property. how long will it take until it is officially declared a genocide? i think it 's a long time, because all these processes, they happen until you need evidence, you need witnesses to testify, you need to go through a certain procedure, and in any case, i think that the very fact that charges are issued is already important thing, but again, how far is an absentee procedure possible in such a situation, how far is it possible to

prosecute those who actually participated, do you remember how the gas hearings were, when... in the gas, when was the story with the plane, how many years did it go on, ugh, and who turned out to be guilty as a result, the shooter turned out to be guilty, who was now imprisoned for four years in russia, and it is also interesting that if somehow the situation develops in an unpredictable way, he will sit for four years, and then putin's regime, let's say, collapses in those four years, and he is betrayed, uh, then he should pray that putin is alive and well, that he comes out from prison well, or simply he will sit in a better prison with better ones conditions, but not for life, here he will be imprisoned for four years and will again engage in sabotage, this is such a thing, although you know how in russia you were imprisoned for four years, and then you were given another 10 for... bad behavior like navalny and so on will be alive, russia will fulfill this decision of the gaza tribunal at its own discretion. well, just kidding, and this is also

what this tribunal says a lot about, that we said all the time: "if there will not be a political solution, the russians thought that there would not be one, that they were taking time on purpose, after all, the people who were in this international the tribunals for the destruction of this malaysian plane, wanted that there would be no legal claims against them afterwards, and when it comes to such large-scale crimes, it is a long process. do you remember how many years, for 20 years, the work of this tribunal in yugoslavia and rwanda continued, but in the end they found almost everyone in our rand, even our colleagues with you, if you can call it that, well , colleagues solovyov and skabeeva, this is more accurate , who called on the radio to destroy essentially all of their countrymen, just of a slightly different ethnic origin, called on them all. they sent all these radios to radio thousand hills, it seems to be called , so this is also about that, by the way, you have to think about this announcer

of radio thousand hills from moscow, that putin still has billions of dollars there and he can change his face there , change shaygu's face, change medvedev's gender, make friends with him and go to argentina early to live a happy family life, and solovyo hardly has so many opportunities? soloyov is of jewish origin, he already started the invasion at the beginning of the war to remind that he is a poor, unfortunate jew, which he was criticized for, but if there is a case of the international tribunal in gas, he will not be able to use it, because the law of return does not apply, it does not apply to people against whom criminal proceedings have been initiated, this such a wise law, it says that if you want, if you didn't remember your jewish identity, and then you want to use it to avoid prosecution, you... stay away and then come back, so solovyov's is wrong , not much opportunity, despite that he has jewish origin there, they should also remember that, it does not save in such a situation, no, these are the trends in the world here,

you go and the economist conducted a survey, and 20, 20 respondents aged 18-29 years believe that the holocaust is a myth, it will not be possible to fake the holocaust like that, 20% in america. young people from 18 to 29 that the world is somehow god's will, education, i think it's an issue of education, it's an issue of social classes, and it's an issue again of avoiding responsibility, the united states is responsible for the holocaust, when they turned back ships with jews who wanted to escape, and these ships returned to europe, where people were then burned, is this a responsibility, or is it just a reluctance to increase migration risks, speaking the language of our friend. e of president donald trump. well, that's a good question, right? and of course, in such a society, where on the one hand there is an absolute disgust for any such

xenophobic things, it increases with the hands of happiness. and on the other hand, you understand that in north america in the 1930s and 1940s, jews also faced discrimination of anything, it's just that we live in a different time, and so to talk about what the... now the whole american society would like to take responsibility, no, so there are certain sections that just try to believe that all of this is not it was easier to live that way, you see, if you even declare someone else’s crime and your own responsibility to be fiction, it is much easier to live that way, so, by the way, i think that even after the war we will have to go through a difficult conversation about what the problems were in ukrainian society, in the historical, as far as we can take responsibility for... the crimes and sins of the past, in order to place this responsibility morally for those crimes and sins that were against ukrainians, committed during these centuries of the existence of the ukrainian

nation, because you understand you only when you are morally pure, you can remind others of responsibility, and that too, we have yet to experience, as you understand, in various dialogues. mr. vitaly, thank you for today's conversation, thank you for saturday's political club, thank you on... our viewers who were with us, vitaly portnikov, lesya vakulyuk, the saturday political club. there are discounts on deflu, 20% in psyllanyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. there are discounts on... hepar 10% in pharmacies psyllanyk, pam and oskad. individual consents

of the sapsan unmanned aerial complexes of the state special service of transport appeal to the viewers of the espresso tv channel with a request to join the collection of crown funds and technical equipment for our units. thank you, glory to ukraine! heroes! verdict with serhii rudenko, from now on. in the new in a two-hour format, even more analytics , even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day by phone survey, turn on and turn on, verdict with serhiy rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso.

greetings, good evening, my name is myroslava barchuk, this is a self-titled program, a joint project of ukrainian foam and the espresso tv channel. today we will talk about literature during the war, about what we read, about how the war actualizes ukrainian classics, about who will write about this historical time in which we live, and we will talk a little about translation. and literary prizes, we will talk about all this with rostislav semkiv, my guest, rostislav semkiv is a literary critic, a teacher at the kyiv-molyan academy and the director of the smallskyp publishing house. greetings rostislav, thank you for coming to us. so, i have to start, not with the good, but with the bad. a few days ago, it literally exploded in ukrainian social networks

scandal. with the maxim rylsky award for 2023, we learned that a few days ago the laureates were determined, and let me remind you that this is the oldest ukrainian translation award, and here you see a post by the state committee of television and radio, which informs us that the laureates have been determined the rylsky prize for the 23rd year, and the winners... of this prize, in particular, were dmytro drozdovskyi and andrew shepard for the translation from ukrainian into english of the collection of works irpin my home, the authors of which are children. everything would be fine, but what about the discussion public is that dmytro drozdovskyi is a person who has been caught plagiarizing several times. it happened

more than once, he knows about it. academic community, and now dmytro rozdovsky is receiving the rylsky prize. moreover, bohdan stasyuk, another translator, wrote on facebook about who andrew shepard is, who, together with drozdovsky, receives the rylsky prize. and it turned out that, in addition to everything else, the translator andrew shepard is the editor of the journal of the british-russian, british-russian society east-west review. on the cover of the first issue for the past year of this publication, you can see a portrait of nikolai vtorov with children on a faberge egg and a lily of the valley, so this is it, this is what you see, these lily of the valley, actually, this is the collection of the sanctioned russian oligarch vekselberg, i don't want to moralize, we are actually talking about literature here. and

about awards, and my first question, rossislav, is how should we treat such a story with this award, how should we react to it, or just wait for such state awards will leave together with the generation of people who represent them, well, this is a bad story, especially since there are such unpleasant connections, and of course there are a lot of structures. who under the guise of, let's say, slavistic studies in the world actually promoted russian studies, actually promoted this myth of great russian literature, they are still working in the world and even in leading universities, but the majority of slavistic specialists are actually russians, this is a consequence of imperial policy. it is clear that

this must be fought.