ruseslav, the question for you is this: how should we react to such a story with this award, how should we react to it, or simply wait for such state awards to go away together with the generation of people who represent them. well, this is a bad story , especially since there are such unpleasant connections, and of course there are a lot of structures that, under the guise of, let's say, slavic studies in the world, actually promoted russian studies, actually promoted this myth of the great russian literature, they still work in the world and even in leading universities, that is an advantage specialists of the slavists are actually russians, this is a consequence of the imperial policy, it is clear that this must be fought.

well, this is already an effect, of course, somewhere it is easier for them to access both prizes and resources in general, but the story itself is bad, it is very good that there is this resonance, it is clear that we need to ask questions in a broader sense, why ukrainian the community, much less a community at war, must pay for it, yes, if it is a government award. of course, radical views that are state-owned there should be no premiums at all, but in any case it should be limited, especially since it may not stay there, let's say shevchenkivska is enough, especially since many of them are compromised where it compromises, where it is compromised, and it is very easy to determine whether the award is compromised or not, whether anyone has seen this book, whether it had

any resonance, in general, what we pay for, here it makes sense to ask the question mercantilely , these are taxes, everyone pays taxes, everyone asks questions, that was appeal of the film community, so with with a call that there should not be these discussions about what the state cinema finances, which films it finances, because very often these are films that many people do not perceive, so there are some comedy series in the middle of war and tragedy, and they offered this dose the state budget, the budget of the state cinema should be transferred to the needs of the armed forces, and it is reasonable, well, all the more so, i say, if the award has compromised itself, then the question should be asked , i think there should be some kind of general

investigation , in what way it was recognized... laureates, especially if there is a connection, well, with such a russian policy, because it is so accurate and the oligarch appears somewhere, it is definitely one of the means of promotion of this magazine, of the means of promotion of the russian interest, now it turns out that we, it turns out that we are somehow in favor of it in some way we also pay tangents to this , i.e. we legitimize it, actually this... contradicts our general, with our general setting for canceling russian culture, for denial, forgetting, there are moratoriums, i don’t know, this can be discussed in different ways , but it is not necessary, so it should be here reaction and it's good that there is a resonance, there is also a story about reputation as such, yes, because it's not only about this man who... shepard, who heads this magazine

of the russian british-russian society there, but also about dmytro drozdovsky, about whom there were also a lot of discussions, so bohdan tyholos, the director of the frank house, accused him of plagiarism, the institute of literature admitted that 64% of plagiarism was in drozdovsky's work, and and and and parallel to this, the person continues to receive awards, i.e. it turns out that... that there are some different parts communities are so culturally ukrainian , so are people, people without a reputation and people with a reputation, and these communities, these blossoms, as if they do not intersect, but you said about the state cinema , so many people criticize maryna kuderchuk there, so much, but equally, this parallel reality continues to exist, so here people with reputation people without reputation and these are two worlds that cannot. which cannot, it is clear,

come to an agreement, but cannot overcome each other, when it comes to the institution of reputation, i begin to think about lingering romanticism. of the ukrainian community, because it well, if there are institutions of reputation, something like that exists, but it is something very amorphous and uncertain, that is, there must be clear structural decisions, yes, that is, someone must sue, there is a discussion about plagiarism, one must sue, that is, there is a law, according to which it should work , yes, there are mechanisms, but now there is yet another struggle for the introduction of suitable candidates, candidates who are actually responsible for the ukrainian cultural fund, yes, that is, there are structures, it is necessary to use these provisions, which

approved, as a rule, the provisions are good, just pay attention, try to take some steps to change it, because it will not change by itself. in other words, the reputation can be ruined, but people forget, in the end, people don't really have the same problems, there should be organizational conclusions, like that. disreputable people, they are mostly so skilled that it is very difficult for them to be purely formal, they are very bureaucratized people, by the way, i want to quote andriy bonder, another great writer and translator, who wrote on facebook about this story is like this, and you know why... everything happened like that, it is meant with the award for this andrew shepard, because where there is no honor and conscience, where there is a bureaucracy detached from reality and flowery nihilism under the mask of a soviet officialdom, the russian comes peace, and i'm sorry that i'm talking

about this for so long, we i promised you to start talking about what we read and how we perceive literature, but this also applies, yes, because everything is very pro... january 22 on the day of the consecration , i noticed that we are in each other's networks we congratulate you on the day of sodomy, and we write in our bubble that this is the day of sodomy, it is dedicated to that, because 105 years ago it happened, zuner united, the fourth station wagon and so on, i saw what i thought, this is a symptom of that , which means that the nation was deprived of this knowledge, if we tell each other about it, yes, because americans do not congratulate each other with thanksgiving day or independence day, which, you know, there on the fourth of july 76- th year,

1776, such and such happened, and the same, probably in literature, and just as certain that we, that we now we reread the classics and say, oh , yes, that was, that’s what it was about... it was exactly what the authors are now, except for, let’s say, the obvious ones there, let’s say, the crimson tiger hunters, or barka with the yellow prince, which for you personally opened up in a new way during this war? well, actually, they opened up, in fact , the authors started to open up a long time ago, in the 90s, and we convinced each other even further. they reach a wider resonance, what the academic community, somewhere, the educational community, had, for a long time, had access to was somewhere in such a shadow, i remember very well what attitude there was to bagryany 10 years ago, that is, there were quite

a lot of skeptics who said that he was so public, and he was all the time about politics and about politics, yes that is, it may not... and the hetsiman garden is not so well written there, these are political works, and now they are timely, they are emphasized, because they are actually about such a rather direct confrontation there with the empire with the russian russian world, and it's good that these texts get a certain such an impulse, an important text that came back somewhere from... now it was a text, well, it is outside the bounds of roman spatoryansky's pain, he wrote it in 21, 1921, he was just a combatant, he survived the war, the first world war, captivity, and then the return from captivity,

and this is one of the earliest such texts about the first world war in general in european literature, one of the first, but for a long time they knew, experts there knew that there was such a... work, but it remained so for a long time unknown, because there are a number of reasons, after all, he fought in part of the austrian army, he wanted to join the legion of snipers. but he did not get in, he fought as part of the austrian army, but against the russian army, accordingly, he was not perceived in the union either, but it is such a very serious anti-war work, that is, against war, against those who start war, everything is very clear there it was put in its place, now it is back, it was republished by vikhola, and there it is, it is one of those texts that is very... difficult, you have to prepare for reading it, but you must read it at school, well if

not to read textually , then at least to remember, but in the end to read, it is not a very large, and therefore a very important text, of course , it is illuminated differently now , the authors of the shot revival are perceived in a completely different way, yes, that is, now because of that, that the tragedy has become, unfortunately, now close, and we actually see that people are dying, that is , authors are dying, writers are dying, er, and again and again, and many people have, yes, friends, relatives who died, that is, death unfortunately became closer, eh, and that's why this tragedy, because it's a tragedy, and i don't know if there is any other literature, where so many writers would be shot in one day, who would be shot, as on november 3, there the day before, the day after... in 1937 , this is a tragedy, but they perceived it somehow so

slightly abstractly, it was somewhere so far away, it happened a long time ago, now this revaluation is going on, and everyone is beginning to realize that on the one hand, well, when he was shot under the gravestone, he was 34 or something like that , that is, it is not much, on the other hand, he managed to write during these 34 years a little bit of short prose and two very good novels, that is, it... took place in such a maximum way a short time, there were also wavering others , among whom there were simply geniuses, such as, for example, mykola kulich, a playwright, and he also wrote this realization that we had such great authors, and then they were forced to shut up, or, for example, zinnoida tulup, this is the first such big one, because before her, too, several women wrote on historical topics. but she has such a first known serious historical novel, poachers, and she

published it there in 1936-1937. she was immediately arrested and sent away. she spent 10 or 15 years in exile in siberia and she came back and didn't write anymore, that is, at a time when in europe, a decade before, a norwegian woman writer was awarded the nobel prize for a historical novel, they sent us to kolyma. so, that is, well, as in our union, this is not our state. that is, it is a feeling on the one hand of a tragedy, on the other hand a feeling of a lost entire area of ​​literature, but it results in a strong desire to get acquainted with what was done, because after all, a lot was done. and this applies in general entire literature, but also individual personalities

, here you can talk about each one somewhere, each one separately, and there are really a lot of names that did not make it much, but made it to something, and this results in such a very serious interest in the classics, a reassessment, here is also imposed the , that the school for a long time... moved according to such post-soviet inertia, well, some topic, these typical topics, were emphasized there, to the point of monotony, there serfdom, serfdom, village, serfdom, and the others were not mentioned, so that is, well, what a show of a soviet school you have , the soviet school, but it has been for a long time continued in the ukrainian school, yes, that is, don't listen to levitskyi, now the kaydashev family remains there. and this is a story about, so , quarrels in the village, let’s say so, now

it has been emphasized by the series, it is good for this text, but it is necessary to show that nechuy levytskyi has other works, well, clouds first of all, on the one hand very clearly, well, the text which very clearly shows the difference, here is ukrainian culture, here is russian culture, that is, he then saw this civilizational divide, which we have now, which we are beginning to realize, many are beginning to to realize only from... now it is in the clouds, and on the other hand, this is a kyiv text, it is about the city, it is about urban habits, daily life, way of life, that is, it is important to show that literature... was not so weak and monotonous, as it was shown in the soviet era, it is clear why, well, with a certain inertia even a long time later, the earth was also read for a long time by kobylyanska, again the village, the conflict over the land, now it is good, the program has changed a little, they are now reading waltz melancholic, the text is emancipatory , the text, again urban,

urbanistic, where there is something to think about, although in the land also has something to think about. it's also a good text, it's just that it was simplified a lot, everything was always simplified to such a bare social relationship, so it needs to be rethought, it's being rethought, and now that's why there's such an interest in the classics, do you think that you said that a new national myth is being created , this is how it is formed, well, in fact, c has already been formulated. the national myth of ukraine, what kind of myth is it, and is a new canon of literature being created in the same way, or will it affect literature in the same way, or it, or these things are not connected, here first of all it should be noted that a myth, again there was such a soviet statement, a myth as a distortion of reality, as something that opposes science, there

are some dark ideas, a myth, a mythology is... is a sacred sacred story about heroes, and since we now have heroes , a new mythology is being created in us, and of course, its result will be the emergence of an epic, that is , an epic layer will appear in ukrainian literature, next to the novel does not mean that novels will stop being written , but it is already being created, you can list the songs there. a song, they react faster, and it is composed of them, accordingly, such an epic of snipers, again there are many songs, these are epic ballads, and marches and requiems, and humorous songs, that is, it is such a rather

wide layer, here is a part of them, these are epics about shooters fighting for freedom. to ukraine and we now have absolutely mythological figures, yes, a mythological figure, i say positively, it is like there and heracles, theseus, but in the same way even now there are already figures that acquire signs of such legendary status, maybe if someone doesn't like the word myth, you can talk about legend, so there are legendary figures, there are cyborgs, there are the heavenly hundred, cyborgs, there is the ghost of kyiv, yes, of course there are even some. legendary figures that have a somewhat humorous, comical appearance, but they still work as legendary figures, for example, pespatron, that's all, it's a legendary creature and a hero, but somewhere it makes you smile, but there are also completely serious ones, is there an azovstal , that is, yes, that is , it is very important that this appears, because it

means that the feat will not be leveled, it will not be forgotten, but... you wrote in your wonderful book adventures of ukrainian literature, which, which i will ask you about separately, but you wrote about the time of the titans, you have such a whole section called the time of the titans, about it's a big shift, a big energy in literature after the first world war, when these great novelists appeared, yes, starting with joyce, thomas. samana, kavka and all the rest, how do you, how do you imagine our literature, our culture after such an extinction that we now have, or have we, ah, do we have a chance at titan time? i think so, i think it's sad, but

the regularity, after great upheavals, comes... the time of great literature, it's not because, well, actually, that's the problem, that it happens, but it happens basically always, because literature is about experience, and war is a very extreme and very powerful experience, and now there is a lot of military, war-related experience, that's the first thing, of course. the experience of those in direct confrontation, the experience of soldiers, the experience of trenches and trenches there, but this experience of volunteers, this refugee experience. migration, it's the experience of the occupation, it's, that is, it's a lot, it's the experience of being in the warehouses, so many different points that will be talked about, well,

and on the other hand, actually, a lot of people are starting to write, there are several writing courses there, there are courses, by the way, specifically for veterans, the voice of war at internews. there is a summer, there is a whole series of writing courses, and they now have a lot of students, that is, people want to pass on this experience, they do not want to drop out, it is also therapeutic, on the one hand, to say the collection voice of war, the first anthology can be found online, people want to write out, spread this experience, that's why new ones appear'. writers , they are already being written about, and there are those who, having gone to the front , were not bad, well, good, or not bad

, and writers, poets, or even quite titled, for example, dmytro lazudin, he now on the short list of the shevchenko prize, by the way, there are prizes that are adequately determined, of course, well, there are always certain scandals around, but just a question trust or distrust of those who get there, yes, that is, there is oleksandr mehet in the publicist, then there is tarina chornogus, well, they wrote even before that, and yarena chornogus, and lazutkin, and artem cheh, there arkiyan kamysh, chapai, well, there was a whole series of pavlo matyush, you can list them. yelyzaveta zharikova is a poet, she is literally the first, well , the collection was published before the war, there is igor mitrov, but there are also those who started during the war,

actually under the influence of war experiences, about which, well, less was heard or not heard, there, like valery puzik, there, let's say so, or martin brest, or oleksiy paikin, that is, they , or vitaly zapeka, they started writing already after... after the beginning, but well, after the 14th, yes, that is, the war was already going on and tsutsyk began to appear, before things, a look at the war through the eyes of a dog, here is vitaly constipation, he appeared somewhere in the 16th or 15th year, and now he already has several books, that is, in fact , there are many new authors and female authors, even if they are all intact returned from the war and they will write and this... there will be such an outbreak, as after the first or the second of the world, of course, even though these are unpleasant things , the next question is so difficult, it will probably be

about the moral right to write, i will now ask the editor to show, show the screenshot of the article, the actual interview that hanna ulyura took, with natalka bilotserkivets, a beautiful poet. and so natalka biloserkivets says something like this, here is such an opinion, i'm interested to hear your analysis of it. natalka bilotserkivyts writes: i recently read an interesting opinion that the best works about the war will be written by those who did not fight directly. i even admit that the best works about our war, primarily cinema and prose , can be created even by non-ukrainians and not in ukraine. for those who have been on... the battlefield , it can be excruciatingly difficult to move away from the inevitable perception of only black and white, absolute evil and unerring good on the battlefield, so individual

short black and white works of high level are possible, but not full-scale, no only in the sense of size, in the sense of complexity of plots and characters. i was very impressed by this thought, since it is very subtle, what do you think? well, i really like poetry. natalki bilotserkivets, she is one of the best poets, at the end of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st century, but i do not agree here, even if we think about the same first world war, and such iconic works that are known to everyone, there is remarque, hemingway, yvlinvo , okay, hasyk, in a different tonality, ernst jünger, so there is a whole set of these texts. who are known more, these are all combatants, that is, obviously someone wrote about the war from afar, so these works appeared somewhere, somewhere, but we know about the war first.

works of combatants, of course, this does not mean that such works cannot appear, and we understand, well, for example, we understand that uh, so the waveman did not shoot his mother, but he wrote it imagining it, yes, that is, experience in literature happens like that, experience can be imagined, and this there will be a strong text, we also know that kotsyubynskyi came... for a week he watched and wrote the best text about the carpathians so far, well, many of the carpathian authors may not agree, but okay, it turned out like this, that is, he is not very had experience in the carpathians, he got there twice there or three times there several times and wrote the best text about the carpathians, that is, it is quite possible, but direct experience

still ... matters, and therefore i think that the strongest books will be written by those who have direct experience, but i say , there is a very different experience, there is an experience, for example , of emigration, and those who are now in emigration, they will write about it, there is an experience there, children in a bomb shelter, and those who experienced it, they will write it, yes, that is, again, let's give grigor tyutyunyk klimko, a boy there alone... years old, through the occupied territory, going there more than 100 km on foot, he goes there for a week, he sees it all, and this is war through the eyes of a war, a child, that is, yes, well, but of course , of course, these will not be uniform works, that is, probably many will want to write their experiences, but the texts remain stronger, that is, among those who had this experience, stronger ones will appear, but

they will remain. in any case, i think here we certainly cannot make any generalizations, because in terms of literature, our situation is now very unique, if we think again about the texts, about the war, which we we know in the world, then either these texts are written from the position of those who were disappointed in the war, so a german soldier, poisoned by propaganda, goes to the front to fight against, here i am retelling the trailer, he goes to the front to fight against the french, and paris in three days , that is, they go to the front with it, and here they see that it is dirt, that it is death, that it is mutilation, and they see, this is this literature, war literature of insight, it means that a person got to the front blind, she doesn't know why she got there, and then

she realizes... that war is scary, but she used to be i thought that this was a walk, and this is not our situation at all, it is different, it is a war through the eyes of a victim after a loss, and this was once our situation, yes malanyuk, a combatant, daragan, lost military competitions, all of them are actually very many in the 20s, because fought first for the ukrainian people's republic, and then many went there to sovietansk. the red army also fought like this, he was generally a rebel against everyone, that is , dovzhenko, and yanovsky, and mykola kulish, and even ostap vyshnya was in charge of the medical service of the ukrainian people's republic, that is, they all fought, but then, so that they don't write about the war, they don't want this heroism, they will just feel, they have suffered a certain defeat, especially like malaniuk, and there is also a third type, such

an ideological one. works like, say, honchar's standard-bearers, where these are victorious works, but we now understand that all of this is steeped in falsehood. in our country, everyone who, uh, fights, uh, understands very well why he does it. we do not have a war of conquest. and, on the other hand, we will not be defeated this time. i think we are all united in this realization. and therefore. it will be some other literature , new literature, i think, that’s why it’s very different, and here to generalize how it will appear, well, it’s quite risky and difficult, thank you, i can’t help but ask about reading as such, but we wrote it out for ourselves and now we will show a graphic from the ukrainian book institute, and who made such and such...