the jews always, always considered them some kind of strange people, because the majority of people wanted to live here, and when they came and told their compatriots from germany, poland, and more, that you have to go to palestine, you will not survive here, they were all told : listen, we are germans, well, you want to pretend that you have a national state in palestine, well, please, we are even ready to help, but don't touch us, and only some small groups of people they... really listened to this , they were few in number, but these were the people who survived, that's why there were such waves of migration there connected with this move, this is also a whole story, when i am in telyavu and walk there on dzenhof street, i remember being told that the old residents of the city, that this street all spoke german language, because they were german jews who fled from hitler not because of a good life, they did not want to go there by and large.

to palestine, because it was a completely distant civilization from them, but they survived, i was once in hamburg at an exhibition dedicated to the great german poet elsa lasker schurer, she was one of the few jewish german intellectuals of jewish descent who survived because she decided that she believed, without being a blue-collar, being a brilliant german poet so, you know, german... so decadent, moved to palestine, and there were two photos at once that showed how things had changed, you know, the kind of lady we saw in the films of the 20s with a long cigarette, in such a woman, you, such a hairstyle, a suit, leather shoes, clothes of lamerlanders, this berlin, and nearby, that's it a little bogged down. the lady in this asian

dress is combed in the manner of our grandmothers, this is jerusalem, her, she actually changed her identity from this trip, and by and large, it was not only a loss of identity for her, german culture also lost a great poetess who was one of the creators of what we think of as germanic civilization, so there's a lot to talk about. but i say again that for me the conclusion from the holocaust, this is what concerns the memory of my relatives, this is why a nation state is needed at all, this is a great lesson everyone, that if you don't have a state capable of standing up for you, the soviet union did not take jews out of the occupied territories, although it knew for sure. what will happen to them, he gave

all these evacuation certificates only to those he needed, well, at military enterprises, somewhere else, somewhere else, and the general mass of ordinary people was left to wait for destruction, because the soviet government was not a jewish government, he was, if you like, the russian government, well , in fact it was russian, whatever it made up about itself there, it was russian government, the russian soviet government, he did n't care about all the others, and the only government... as it turned out, which can protect the jews at this critical moment, is the israeli government from a political point of view, because the jews become the israelis become a political nation, yes as the only government that can protect ukrainians is the ukrainian government, not in the end, if anything, we will also understand this, in today's world, if something so shocking happens, we will have to remember again that there are ukrainian governments here, there is a ukrainian the state, therefore that is, let's say, at the last moment.

trials, it may turn out that even the country you have lived there for 10 or 20 years, even the country of the passport you have, will not think of you, and that can be disappointing, but on the other hand, if you have a state, you will to know that you will be accepted unconditionally in this state, that is, in principle, what we did in 1991, if you like, it is also one of the results of what happened in europe during the second world war, ukrainian jews, they are... different, because there are those that are they remember some jewish traditions, somehow they continue them, and there are those, as you say, everyone has a jewish friend, a friend of mine once told me that i have jewish roots, i say, well, what about such and such in your family indeed, something that was passed down there from his grandfather , great-grandfather, was preserved, he raised his shoulders and said: i don't know, and i say, then your family, unfortunately, became that family that was simply ground down and made ordinary for themselves.

well, on the one hand, yes, on the other hand , agree that we understand what a modern nation is, not necessarily when it comes to religious traditions that people pray there. in a synagogue or in a church , with a large number of ukrainians, a huge number of people there are also not, let's say, religious, do not celebrate religious holidays, but feel themselves ukrainians, and by the way, this is some thing that is, how should i say, which is stronger than man, i see a huge number of times, what people, whom you call soviet people, who did not remember their jewish origin, came to yeerusalem, i just saw it with my own eyes, when i suddenly left... they began to feel it connection, i saw people who said that they were not jews, but the moment they heard folk songs, they knew for sure that these were their songs, although their parents and grandfathers might not have sung them there, we had them, just like the ukrainians, by the way , in soviet

, a generation was missed, this is the generation, relatively speaking, of my parents, because it was a struggle against cosmopolitanism, intimidation, wild anti-semitism, people were simply afraid, but this is exactly... for one generation, from the generation of grandfathers to the generation of grandchildren, this connection has been restored again, i am already a part of it restored, and the generation, well, i'm sorry , if we produced one generation in 200 years of living on this land, it's not so big for us, not such a big blow, it's a long story, you know, just like ukrainians, if they are in 200 years living on the territory of the russians produced a couple of generations there , because they were russified, if we... the development of this, i would say, ethnos from the times there, the kiev principalities, the kiev principalities there, and the chernihiv principalities, relatively speaking, and up to today's ukraine, that's how much years, that's about there 200 years, and since then, there were moments when

ukrainians were polonized there, there were moments when ukrainians were russified, but somehow they remained ukrainians, although there were some generations that forgot traditions, these exact same claims can be presented anywhere to whom, the main thing is that... there was persistence, i was always interested in other things about the jews of ukraine, and i even once wrote an article in 1991, i think, a ukrainian jew is like a bird of the year, and i compared a ukrainian jew with a polish one, i said what is it, let's say there is a polish jew, this is a person who can know whether not to know her traditions there, to be a secular person, she feels like a jew, but she speaks polish, she is a part of polish society, she is interested in the polish state, polish civilization, these are two parts that make her a polish jew, like hungarian. hungarian and so on and so on, that is, it is romanian-romanian, and what is ukrainian, for the most part it is a russian-speaking person, actually yes, but also ukrainian, but why, because the ukrainian himself is a russian-speaking person, this jew lives in a place , where the ukrainian addresses him in the russian language and his own russian-speaking wife, in order for ukrainian jews to appear,

one important condition was needed, for the ukrainians themselves to appear as a nation-building nation that itself speaks the ukrainian language and that itself is proud of its statehood and... under the elder brother, and then people who have, relatively speaking, make up national minorities in this country, not only jews, but jews as well, jews are an indicator, by the way, they become ukrainian, and this happened during these 30 years, recently me here often my good friend an israeli diplomat, who was also born there in ukraine, he told me, do you remember what happened in general during these last 10 years, ukrainian jews appeared. "when i repatriated to israel, they weren't there, well, i certainly wasn't, to say that they weren't there, there were some single people, huh, at whom we looked and thought, how they were carriers of this ukrainianness, being jews, and

they were different too, there was grandfather panas, uh, actor wexler, who just, i would never even have suspected him of being jewish, because he was just an embodiment for me." ukrainian, i then realized how close it is, if a person, he did not play, he was like that in the essence of his character, there was, let's say, a ukrainian poet, abram katsnelson, who wrote poems in the ukrainian language there , led the laboratory of young ukrainian poets of otpeny and many people , even famous classics of ukrainian poetry, i don’t even want to just mention their surnames, because this is how these people created such an image for themselves that i don’t even want to tell that they wrote in russian, but he them converted to the creativity of the ukrainian language, because when this tsivachola person of jewish origin with the surname katsnelson came up and asked, why do you write lovingly in russian, somehow it became conscientious and the person returned to his culture, and so many people, so here, but this is not it could be called the mass,

it cannot be called the consciousness of the community, this happened before our eyes, it is such a miracle, by the way, as a miracle, this is what happened to the ukrainian people. so we heard what happened to ukrainian jewry, we could such things, as a rule, people do not see, they happen in some historical eras, and we can only read about it in history textbooks, in general, what we see today in ukraine is usually read in convenient stories, we are witnesses with you we can talk about it the way journalists do, in general, journalists don’t talk about it in the program, historians talk about it at seminars, there are some books, then they will talk about this era, which we can discuss with you on television, it is such a gift of fate, but another historical event, which we are observing is what is happening now between israel and palestine, and now israel is now being accused of carrying it out. genocidal policy regarding the gas sector, well, it is interesting that the international court

of the un, which was appealed to by the south african republic, partially satisfied his claim and did not issue a decision on a ceasefire in the gas sector, which is, of course, a serious defeat for those who filed this claim. because for them it was important that there was a decision to provide for this temporarily lawsuit, israel was no longer accused of genocide, but an investigation began. uh, and the interim measures, these interim measures obligate israel to take measures that would prevent the genocide in gaza until a court decides whether genocide took place, but the most important thing would be if the international court of the un recognized that israel has to cease fire, israel would not cease fire and then be accused of violating the ruling of the international court of the united nations, that was a diplomatic idea that failed, and that's... also a very interesting point, that in principle, the organizers of this lawsuit,

they did not say a single word about the israeli hostages who are in the hands of hamas, they did not say a single word about the fact that hamas carried out this attack on israel, in a situation where israel itself does not even have a clue didn't know about any operation in the gas sector, and this to some extent also speaks of certain double standards, you see, we hear it all the time. that ee conflict in the middle east, he ee proved to the global rooster that the west adheres to double standards, and we say this as some a perfect thing, which does not even need to be polemized, but i am interested, here is this great figure of our time, cyril lamaphos, who is accused of corruption, who accuses his predecessor of corruption and released him from prison after a visit to moscow, by the way. because there was no place for him in the carriage, poor thing, they didn't find a place for president tabombeka, here is this person who

filed a lawsuit against israel, ugh, she went to moscow completely calmly, kissed there with vladimir putin, the army of which bomb the civilian population, despite the fact that ukraine did not attack russia, we are not hamas, we did not attack anyone, our territory... is occupied, they are shelled, every day civilians and children die in our country, it can certainly not be called genocide, who are we such compared to the palestinian arabs, no one, but this must still be taken into account, these troops were there in the butches, bards and other places that have already become a symbol of genocide for europe, they killed , raped, robbed, destroyed there, and cyril ramophosa didn't even think about it at least... to tell comrade putin, uh, well, to express something of his own, even in contrast to

some narendra modi, did not tell him that war is bad, but simply wants the parties to somehow cease fire, as if we are equal participants in this conflict, no left brics, did not break off relations with the russian federation, did nothing, moreover, he tried somehow to make putin come to him in johannesburg and then he was simply afraid that... the african court, which does not really obey him to the end , may to arrest putin and there will be bemtz and he convinced putin not to fly, but there was lavrov, a representative of this very genocidal regime, so why should we seriously pay attention to any lawsuits that cyril ramofos is filing with this campaign to the united nations international court of justice, seriously , well, this is a real double standard, you know? this is such a question that should be really

considered and show all the cynicism of all these countries that tell us about the so-called genocide of the palestinian population, and there is nothing good in the death of peaceful people nowhere, and a palestinian child is just as pitiful as a jewish or ukrainian one. that it doesn't even need to be explained, but again we remember with you all these stories when israeli hostages are in palestinian families and... they are guarded, but recently there was a story about a hostage who escaped from captivity, his then they found out about it only because he was released, released, by the way, because he had a second russian passport and his release was such a demonstration of putin's capabilities that he was there several people

released, but this is an israeli, ugh, he escaped from captivity. and it was found by ordinary peaceful palestinians and handed over to hamas, well, peaceful residents, well, this also says a lot, so when we speak, listen, there are militants, and there is a civilian population that does not participate in anything at all , they are hostages, well, they are about as hostages as the russians are putin’s hostages, we are talking to you now, you see how many people are standing in line to sign these ee... write sheets for boris nadezhdin, who is a very tentatively anti-war candidate, but he though b says that he wants to stop the war, and look, they are standing in lines, no one is touching them, right? yes, well, if they really wanted to stop the war, there would be 10 times more, 100 times more, we would see it, that is, it turns out that you and i say that russia is an authoritarian country, they

put everyone there in bitch, when you wear one pantyhose to a famous place, you come to some club, then you are rinsed about... on all the television channels, it's all clear, but it turns out that when you participate in a procedure that is authorized by the authorities, you you have the opportunity to express your civic position without consequences, and these people, there are many, many of them for such a totalitarian country, but certainly not so much that we said that the russian population is part of this russian plan chauvinistically, this also says a lot, so when they say that the civilian population has nothing to do with anything. does not participate, the civilian population tolerates such regimes, the civilian population of the gas sector elected hamas in the parliamentary elections and would elect it again if there were free elections now, with more as a result, the civilian population of russia elected putin and will elect him again, i think that they would have been elected in fair elections, maybe not from such a number, this is also important to remember, and this is

also an illustration of this whole situation, if hamas militants thought about its own civilian population. they would definitely not take hostages, they would release them because they had an opportunity for a truce , they would improve the conditions for their own civilian population so that they could return to those places where there are no militants, they want these people were a human shield, and for some reason, here are all of them their supporters from johannesburg , that is, from pritoria, they do not even think about it, because unfortunately, during the times when they were engaged in active political activities, during the struggle for party food, they did the same thing, that's the problem. therefore they understand hamas better than israel. today we are talking about genocide, and actually, is this mass deportation of ukrainian children to russia, or will it be recognized as genocide in the end. like, like actions that mean, that have signs of genocide, definitely. because it is actual conscious

intervention in the composition of the population is certain. territory, attempts to artificially change the composition of the population, to change the identity against the will of the people, against the will of the parents, against the will of the children themselves, using actual force, and that is why, by the way, you know that this is the accusation that was brought against putin the hague tribunal, it is precisely related to the deportation of children, we simply did not even understand, i think, before this accusation was made, what deep consequences such actions have, putin will not understand, he does not at all understands such things, he, if he understood... he wouldn't admit it under camera, he didn't understand at all what he was doing wrong, why? because according to the russian tradition, shacks are property, for him it is about the same as when they stole an enterprise once in the luhansk donetsk regions, when they did not think to annex them, but simply to develop a bridgehead for an attack there, they are from there exported all enterprises, well, what is the difference between a machine and a person, and that it

can work for the owner, and that is why he is so calmly discussed it with this lviv and bilova, since it was about some things, well, it is, probably the attitude of russians towards children, they think that it is also some kind of property, well, of course, you can do anything, as long as you like will pass until the moment when it is officially said that this is a genocide, i think it is a long time, because all these processes, they take place until the evidence is needed, witnesses are needed to show, a certain procedure must be carried out, and in any in any case, i think that the very fact of the accusations is already an important thing. but again, to what extent is an absentee procedure possible in such a situation, to what extent is it possible to bring to justice those who really participated, do you remember how the gas hearings were, when the gas was used, when there was a story... with the plane, how many years ago eight continued, uh, who turned out to be guilty as a result, the shooter turned out to be guilty, who has now been jailed for four years in russia, and it is also

interesting that if somehow the situation will develop in an unpredictable way, then he will sit for four years, and then the putin regime, let's say, it will collapse in these four years, and he will be handed over to the gaga, well, then he should pray that putin is alive and well, that he gets out of prison, well, or he just sits there. a better prison with better conditions , but not the rest of his life, he will spend four years here and engage in sabotage again, this is such a thing, although you know how in russia you spent four years, and then you were given another 10 for bad behavior, as in like navalny, and so be it while alive, russia will fulfill this decision of the gaza tribunal at its own discretion, well, jokes are jokes, and that's all too this tribunal says a lot about what we have been saying all the time, and there will be no decision , the russian politicians believed that there would not be one, that they are specially pulling the stake. after all, the people who were in this international tribunal for the destruction of this malaysian summer wanted that there would be no legal claims against them afterwards, and when it comes to such large-scale crimes, it is a long process, remember how many years,

there are years 20 continued the work of this tribunal in yugoslavia on rwanda, but in the end they found almost everyone in the rand our colleagues, even our colleagues with you, if you can call it that, well, colleagues of solovyov and skabeeva, this is more accurate. who called on the radio to exterminate all their compatriots in fact , they just called for a little bit of a different ethnic origin, but they were all found, put in prison, all these radios on the radio of a thousand hills, it seems to be called, so that, by the way, you have to think about this radio announcer of a thousand hills from moscow that putin still has billions of dollars there and he can change his face there, change the face of shoigu. change the gender of the bear, make friends with him and to go to argentina early, live a happy family life, and solovyov hardly has so many opportunities? well, solovyov

is of jewish origin, he already at the beginning of the war of invasion began to remind us that he is a poor, unfortunate jew, which he was criticized for, but if there is a case of the international tribunal in gaza, he will not be able to use it, because the law of return does not apply, does not extend to people against whom criminal proceedings have been initiated. "this is such a wise law, it says that if you you want, if you didn't remember your jewish identity, and then you want to use it to avoid criminal prosecution, you first sit out and then come, so solovyov doesn't have much of a chance, despite the fact that he has there is a jewish origin, they should also remember that, it does not save in such a situation, no, these are the trends in the world here, you go and the economist conducted a survey and 20-20 respondents. at the age of 18-29 years, they believe that stupidity is stupidity. it will not be possible to end the holocaust like this, 20%

in america, young people from 18 to 29, that the world is somehow god's will, education, i think it 's an issue of education, it's an issue of social classes, and it's an issue again of avoiding responsibility, the united states is responsible for the holocaust when they for turning back ships with... jews who wanted to escape and these ships were returning to europe, where people were then burned, is this responsibility, or is it just a reluctance to increase migration risks, speaking in the language of our friend president donald trump. well, that's a good question, right? and of course, in in such a society, where on the one hand there is an absolute abhorrence of any such xenophobic things, it is fortunately increasing over the years. and on the other hand, you understand that in north america there... in the 1930s and 1940s, jews also suffered from discrimination for anything, it's just that we live in a different time, and therefore to talk about the fact

that now the entire american society would like to take responsibility, that's why there are certain layers that simply try to believe that all this did not happen, it's easier to live that way, you know, if at all to announce a stranger, especially one's own crime and one's own responsibility as a fiction, it is much easier to live this way, so by the way, i think that we are after the war. will have to go through a difficult conversation about what were the problems in ukrainian society, in historical terms, to what extent can we take responsibility for the crimes and sins of the past, in order to place this responsibility morally for these crimes and sins that were against ukrainians, committed during these centenary of the existence of the ukrainian nation, because you understand, only when you are morally pure, you can remind about responsibility to others, and that too. we have yet to experience, as you understand, in various dialogues. mr. vitaly, thank you for today's conversation, thank you for saturday's political club, thank you

to our viewers for coming. with us are vitaly portnikov, lesya vakulyuk, the syubot political club, 12-year-old svyatoslav ulchasty, 14-year-old anatoliylyashenko, and 16-year-old... all these boys disappeared in the temporarily occupied territories of the kherson region and no one knows where they are now. so, i really hope for your help. first of all, i am addressing the residents temporarily occupied territories of the kherson region. i know that ukrainian tv channels are not broadcasting in your country right now, but i hope that maybe you are watching this program on social networks, so i really ask you to look carefully at the faces of the children. svyatoslav folchasti. he looks

about 12 years old, he is of medium build and has blond hair, he was last seen on february 22nd in the territory of heniche district of kherson region, which was occupied almost from the first days of the war. anatoly ilyashenko, he turned 14 last december. the guy is thin, has dark hair and brown eyes, looks maybe a little older than his age. tolya was last seen in the village of baltazarivka, this is the chaplin district of the kherson region. which was also occupied almost at the beginning of a full-scale war. and this is konstantin cherbov. he should be 17 next month. the boy looks his age, with dark hair and gray-green eyes. he lived in the kakhov district in the city of tavriysk. it was there on the first day of the war that he was last seen. that is, there has been no news about the boy for almost two years. if suddenly someone has information about a possible

whereabouts. slava, anatolia or konstantina, or maybe you just saw these guys somewhere, let us know right away, even a small piece of news can be very important. you can call the magnolia child tracing service at any time of the day by dialing the short number 11630. calls from all ukrainian mobile operators are free. if suddenly you are in the temporarily occupied territory and you do not have the opportunity to call, write in the chat. child tracing services in telegram, or look for us at facebook i have told you the stories of just three children who disappeared due to a full-scale russian invasion. in general, since the beginning of the war , we have already received several thousand appeals for help in the search. of course, the vast majority of children were found and everything is fine with them now, but unfortunately, the fate of many still remains unknown, anyone can help find them. believe me, just a minute in... time

can be decisive. go to the website of the magnolia children's search service in the missing children of ukraine section. you can view all photos here disappeared perhaps you will recognize someone and eventually help find them. at the same time , children are also disappearing in territories controlled by ukraine. as the experience of the magnolia children's search service shows, most of them are teenagers. we talked about this topic with a psychologist and gathered a lot. for parents who can prevent a child from suddenly running away from home. one of them is the importance of being interested in the child's interests. be interested in your child's interests, invite his friends to visit, even if it is very noisy. even if after that there is a terrible debacle in the house, it is still useful, it is still good. why? because first of all, the child will be in front of you, he will be next to you. secondly, you will know what she

is interested in, who she communicates with, who... to turn to in case of which, thirdly, you can simply share the interest and get pleasure, because sometimes what your children are interested in can be genuinely interesting for you too. and lastly, even if it is not your child who needs help, but one of his friends, perhaps because you will be the only adult who who will be able to provide this help, and maybe you will save someone from fatal decisions. we've created a resource for you to report. about any crime against a child in any city, at any time, just go to the site and report, and we will launch all possible mechanisms to punish the criminal. stopcrime ua. there are discounts on citramon.