the director of the institute of world politics, friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, we are conducting a survey, we are asking you about this, do you allow the freezing of the war with russia, so the intermediate results are 16% allow 84, no , 15 minutes after the bbc news broadcast , political expert oleksiy holobutsky, vitaly kulyk and volodymyr fesenko will talk about zaluzhnaya, about this resignation, who initiated it in quotation marks of the resignation. stay tuned, we'll be back on the air soon. head on a visit to ukraine, the ministry of foreign affairs of hungary fills the statement of some right-wing politicians with claims to ukrainian territories. this is a bbc broadcast. jafer umerov works in a studio in london.

hugs and warm hugs in uzhhorod at official talks between the governments of ukraine and hungary, while politicians from the far-right parties of romania and hungary declared claims to parts of ukrainian territories. what do similar statements from ukraine's western neighbors mean during the war. a week in the ukrainian department. began with the visit of the head of the foreign ministry of hungary, petr sijarto, to ukraine. meetings with minister of foreign affairs dmytro kuleba and head of the office of the president of ukraine andrii mirmak took place today in uzhhorod. the ukrainian side says the visit was aimed at normalizing ukrainian-hungarian relations. a month before siyartu's visit, the parties agreed to organize a meeting between viktor orban and volodymyr zelenskyi, andriy yermak said.

and on the eve of the visit, peter siyarto wrote on his facebook page: i am leaving for uzhhorod, we have a long day ahead of us, we must do everything to ensure that the hungarian community of transcarpathia returned the former rights. andriy yeremak, the head of the union of ukraine, said that there is a need for a frank and constructive dialogue between the countries, that ukraine is ready for this, and just the first stage of this dialogue took place today. however , the problems between hungary and ukraine... range from viktor orbán's blocking of aid to ukraine to statements by certain hungarian politicians about claims to ukrainian territories. similar statements were made recently in romania, we will talk about this in more detail a little later, and the visit of the hungarian foreign minister is taking place against the background of these statements. they are direct concern not only the territorial integrity of ukraine, but also ukrainian statehood in general. the hungarian publication index reports that the leader of the far right. mikhazan klasla

torotskai of the hungarian party said that if ukraine loses the war with russia, his party will claim transcarpathia. in addition, he added that ukraine was allegedly bought by the international investment company black-rock, which has 10 trillion dollars in assets, and that it sees peace in ukraine through a ceasefire and transition. a similar statement appeared in another nearby ukraine state in romania. one of the leaders is there. claudio tarzio of the far-right party of the alliance for the union of romania also declared his desire to annex ukrainian territories. he said that romania would not be truly sovereign until it reintegrated the romanian state within what he called its natural borders and called for the annexation of berserarabia, bucovina and zakarpattia to romania. such statements, both in romania and in hungary, appear not for the first time. last year romanian hay. submitted a draft law

proposing to annex a part of it to romania of the southern region of ukraine, then the ukrainian authorities reacted, and we will talk more about this with my colleague, bbc correspondent george merman, he is investigating this topic. i congratulate you, georgiy, szijharto's visit to ukraine is taking place against the background of these statements, what kind of statements are these and how serious do such territorial encroachments sound? these are statements that were made during the preparation for election campaigns, and in both countries, in hungary , elections to the european parliament will be held in june, in romania this year there will be elections to the european parliament, and presidential elections, and most likely the parliamentary elections, therefore these political parties, whose leaders made these statements, they are fighting for the votes of the ultra right, the nationalist electorate, which is not satisfied with certain processes in the european union, in nato. and dissatisfied with the deterioration of living conditions,

as a rule, people who profess a nationalist ideology vote for these political forces. but also those who, let's say, are dissatisfied with the processes of globalization, do not have high incomes, and therefore support such ideas, if we talk about specific percentages, then the party is my homeland or mihazank, in hungary, she can count on about 10% of the vote according to the latest polls, other politicians in hungary may be thinking aloud about the possibility of returning certain territories that used to be... part of the kingdom of hungary, but they are ashamed to say it aloud about this, and if we talk about romania, then relations with romania in ukraine during the last two years during a full-scale war, one can say, are just perfect. romania very seriously helped ukraine with logistics

during the logistics of arms deliveries, logistics of ukrainian exports during the war, as well as the party of the alliance of the union of romanians, which... professes this ideology of the return of certain territories that belonged to the kingdom of romania before the second world war, according to the polls, it has approximately 20% of the vote. these ideas are not new for romania, there have always been some nationalist parties that tried to dream of the return of these territories and thus gain certain electoral points, but we can say that never in the history of post-communist romania... these parties were not in power in romania. thanks to george, it was a bbc correspondent, george ehrenman, and we are in touch. and for details with an analysis of territorial encroachments, read the article by george on our website with the title behind the claims

of the far-right of hungary and romania on the territory of ukraine. the statements of some politicians about the annexation of ukrainian territories are heard at a time when ukraine. is actively fighting with russia for its own territorial integrity, but even here it is not without problems, which are created for ukraine by its western neighbor, hungary. back in december, viktor orban blocked the allocation of 50 billion euros of financial aid to kyiv from the eu budget, and eu leaders will return to discussing this issue at the february 1 summit in a few days. however , budapest-based political observer zoltan pogacha says: such rhetoric and actions are aimed at ... orbán's voters, who see it as a fight for hungary's national interests. what might appear to some as bad behavior, the fact that the hungarian government is blackmailing the european commission , in the eyes of the voters of the fidesz party in hungary

, on the contrary, looks like a struggle for freedom, as the attempts of the hungarian national government to assert hungarian national interests and not succumb to external pressure. this is mostly domestic rhetoric aimed at convincing hungarian voters that they have a strong government, not one that is forced to fight for its survival and hide its actions in the field of economy and domestic politics. they want to show that hungary finally has a government that approves of it. national interests, knowing how the eu operates, and i have been researching this topic for decades, there will always be some kind of peaceful solution, some kind of compromise, behind the scenes it is always

possible to come to an agreement, so by the time the leaders of the countries go to the press, such a compromise is usually already ready, so i don't think... that hungary will be something block or use its veto, and the events of the past few days have shown that hungary is no longer insisting on its veto. and the director of the institute of central european strategy, dmytro tuzhansky, joins the broadcast. congratulations, dmytro, have the parties come to an understanding after today's meeting ? visit siyart. you share the hungarian viewer's opinion that orbán will stop blocking. aid to ukraine at the eu summit on thursday? i share my opinion on this issue, i.e. in the medium term until the results of the elections in the european parliament, before the elections in the united states, i.e. this is what viktor orban has on his political map, he will not

use the veto on ukraine, this is the result of the december summit, the result of these serious conversations behind closed doors. mainly with the leaders of the european union, the result of what ukraine has done homework, regarding these seven criteria of candidate status and among them the rights of national minorities. eh, that is, now viktor orbán is taking this step tactically, well, when he withdraws his veto, that is, it is not a final decision, it is a temporary decision, that is where i do not agree with my hungarian colleague, this is a decision for summits, this is a decision for elections in the european parliament, this is the decision on hungary's presidency of the european union, which should be in the second half of 2024. but if we talk about the statement of hungarian politicians, about encroachment on transcarpathia and romanians. them as well on bukovynu, they happened at the same time, do you think it's a coincidence? yes, it’s a coincidence, eh

, you have to look when they said, that is, in romania it’s a matter of this national holiday of the unity of the principalities, and when it’s ultra-right, why not say such absurd and disgusting things on this day, the same in hungary, it was with the migozang party, and torotskoi said what he said, he has been saying this all his life, he is a person who was a nongrat person because of... similar things in slovakia, in serbia, in general, his entire political career in general only on such absurdity is being built. fortunately, less than 10% of hungarians share him and his views, that is, they are revanchists. this is why we are like this, there will be such statements if we hear them, we will hear them constantly, you will understand that such statements , unfortunately, are still heard in hungarian-romanian relations, because there is the issue of transylvania and so on and so on, there are issues in... hungarian-slovak, partially, in hungarian-croatian relations, that is, this is

central europe, these are the consequences of two wars, and this is the irresponsibility of politicians who exploit historical traumas. in your opinion, what should be the reaction of the world community to such statements? phew, world community, we have to do everything to cure this central european resentment. yes, that is, to explain that revanchism is not a solution, that russian imperialism is a common danger, and we cannot play along with this revanchist mood, even through hints or some political statements, because it leads to a dead end, leads to genocide, and this is all that russia is doing now in ukraine, this is a common challenge, a common danger, unfortunately, not all european politicians central european politicians. even if they are not in power, let the marginals, but they understand it, unfortunately, they speculate on it, well, it's

the instincts of power, ratings and all that. and returning to today's visit, both orban and siyar are accused of having pro-russian sentiments, so you were at the press conference, or did you feel that from his statements? no, no, peter sigerto probably gave one of his most unusual press conferences, to some questions he simply did not answer, he spoke. something other than the question was put to him, that is, it was clearly his the motivation not to say anything superfluous, not to say anything superfluous, so as not to provoke a scandal or somehow anger the ukrainian side, but also so as not to , you know, give away all the trump cards or jokers that they have up their sleeve in the context of the ukrainian issue, that is, for viktor orban , for his team, ukraine is a very convenient card to play as in... god for longer in this geopolitical game at the same time with all the important centers kremlin, berlin,

paris, brussels, washington, this is how he sees ukrainian issues. oh, and that's the last thing question, we don't have much time left, is the date of viktor orban's visit to ukraine currently known? to be honest, i would be very modest in all these predictions, and, you know, we can ask this question, but, well, you will understand, viktor orbán. there is no desire, not that there is even a desire, politically he feels and understands that it is not necessary and dangerous for him, neither to go to ukraine, nor to have a full-fledged meeting with volodymyr zelensky, because he understands that the result of this meeting must be some arrangements, he does not want to communicate with ukraine as a full-fledged partner, he wants to use ukraine as a hostage, this is the puzzle that we need to solve on a bilateral level and... to be honest, dmytro kuleba, yarmak andriy, in my opinion, this is good a duo that can do it, but

one must understand that the bilateral level is also not a panacea, it is not that, well, where will everything end, viktor orban wants to play ukraine in his debates with brussels, flirting with the kremlin, flirting with washington , yes, flirting with paris, it was, flirting with mrs. meloni, there is now on the agenda the question of joining the faction of the fidesz party, where the leader... thank you dmytro tuzhanskyi, we don't have enough time, it was dmytro tuzhanskyi, the director of the institute of central european strategy, who is in touch with us, that's it for today, we're back on the air tomorrow. ninth, take care of yourself, congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel,

the verdict program, this is the second part of our issue, today... we are talking about this. parliamentary crisis is looming. zelenskyi's associates are collecting mandates en masse. or will the government of national unity save the situation? cleaning in the ministry of defense. those involved in the ammunition procurement scandal were detained. who is to blame for the projectile famine? ukraine is once again being offered to give up its territory, whether it is possible to freeze the war with russia in exchange for the accession of... countries to nato. we will talk about this and other things with our guests for the next 45 minutes, but before introducing them, i will say that we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those watching us live there now, please please like this video and also

subscribe to our pages on these platforms. in addition, you can take part in the survey. we are asking you this today , do you allow a war freeze with russia, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube , if yes, then click yes, no, do not click no, if you are sitting and watching us live in tv broadcasts, pick up your smartphone and vote if you allow a freeze on war with russia (0800-211-381 not 0800-21382), make all calls to these numbers. are free. today, friends, in we are a political science studio, i want to introduce today's guests, they are oleksiy holobutsky, political scientist, political technologist, deputy director of the situation modeling agency. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you. congratulations. vitaly kulyk, director of the center for researching civil society problems. mr. vitaly, i also congratulate you. i congratulate you. and

we are still waiting for the inclusion of volodymyr fysenko, a political scientist, the chairman of the board of the center of applied political research penta. gentlemen, let's start with today's news and the news that has been in the past for two hours, i think that you accurately followed the story with information about the dismissal of a retired officer from the position of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, and this was quite active, public people published information about on social networks, published information about what they knew about the resignation of ... they say that the decree was signed on the dismissal, he was replaced by general budanov, and there is already a decree, then the office of the president of ukraine is not as prompt as we would like, but he denied this information, but for some time this information circulated and lived in society, what was it in your opinion, i.e. a deliberate slip by some

group of people that this resignation took place, this is a leak of information that these... decrees were signed, but simply not made public, or what it is was, mr. oleksiy, well , it could have been any of these options, absolutely, first of all, the situation has not been finalized yet, it is absolutely unknown, however, what happened and whether it really happened, so far, i understand that only two persons who will finally deliver can declare this. period in this matter, at least for now, is it zelenskyi or zuluzhnyi himself? zelenskyi didn't say anything in his evening address, we didn't hear anything useful either, that's why this situation, it continues, behind, well, you understand, too many people, journalists gave out this information, but

it definitely couldn't have appeared in a vacant place, but again, there is nothing strange, nothing new in this situation. no, i remember, it was somewhere in the summer of 22, when i printed the post exactly, well, i received information about the replacement of the zuluzh silsky, so and and and after during these two years, one way or another , this information appeared from time to time that they were going to replace luzhluzh or solve his problem in some other way, so to speak, it is clear that there is a problem, a problem of communication, a problem of relations, probably of all the decision makers in wartime. after all, zaluzhnyi looks the most authoritative and, nevertheless, the most independent of her from the office of the president, so he is

absolutely logical, he does not like it, it is normal, absolutely within the limits of our reality, mr. oleksiy, but in this situation, when there was an information torpedo, maryana was helpless and this torpedo attacked valery zaluzhny quite actively, do you understand? it happened that this attack by marina bezuglai was considered as part of this plan to bring society to the point where, well, at least the active part of this society, that this resignation can be, the problem, the problem, i think, is not so much in the resignation , the question is not so much about retirement, it is about equalizing, because the responsibility, let's say, of the military leadership with political leadership, i believe that the goal is still the most important. to this, and not only to release the industrious, well, how can it be, there is an attack on the military, well, not even an attack, but there is

a certain political discussion about the fact that , well, i am trying so hard with such words not to be too confrontational, that the military are not angels , that the military is equally responsible for the problems that exist there at the front and... and in general , the problem with mobilization there is completely different, and how else to check the reaction of society to the fact that, after all, removing a soldier, it is possible to throw in such information , what we are about to see the reaction, whether all this work she is conducting was conducted there by the same bezugla, well, and many others in order to reduce the authority of the industrious, is it already working or not working yet, so maybe this was the purpose of the current ... the current information system , i repeat, is not over yet, after all, yes, it will end when we see a hard-working person at his workplace, thank you,

mr. oleksiy, mr. vitaly, but why doesn’t zelenskyi leave now and not write down the footprints and say, we don't have any at all there are no problems with zaluzhny, someone is picking on us, someone is dispersing this information about the resignation of the head of the armed forces of ukraine, if there is no problem, then... it is not a problem for zelensky to record a short video and say that there are no questions. well, in fact , there is a question, there are problems in the relationship. and i agree with oleksiy, all rumors do not arise out of nowhere either. and the fact that there are indeed problems, that there is a contradiction between the bank and the head office, this is with kat polishenely, everyone knows about this, and these questions are not removed. and it was possible to make a joint video with zaluzhny a long time ago, not only a photo, but to record a joint video where any questions can be shot, but this is not done,

that is, it means that there really are contradictions, and these contradictions accumulate, they become complicated, and , accordingly , there is no communication, such live communication between two people who manage the military sphere and the political sphere, outside the borders of the pond, therefore... it is obvious that this also creates space for manipulation, space for information operations in the kyds, which we observed today and before and before that , the question of zaluzhny's resignation has repeatedly escalated, but i would say that, for example, today i do not rule out that there was no smoke without fire, and moreover, i would not was fascinated by mr. zaluzhny and... it was said that the attack on zaluzhny is some kind of political-technological special operation, that it is only a matter of political competition, no, because

there are questions for mr. zaluzhny and there are questions for the general staff, sometimes what he says cornerless, it really has ground under it, and this objective questions that she asked, questions in another way, questions in the form of how she did it, but questions, they are real, and these are questions that military personnel, including officers, ask, and these and these questions are not the general staff, which is not responsible in the grand scheme of things, really do not respond, that is why this miscommunication and attempts to find out some, to give some strategic emphases, to place with the help of appeals to the national media, communication with each other and with the ukrainian people through foreign mass media, and we see it all the time. one program statement, a program interview of mr. zaluzhny, another program interview of mr. zelenskyi, but for whom it is a foreign publication, not a ukrainian one, that

seems strange to me. and all this is superimposed, it causes mistrust of the authorities, it causes mistrust of the military-political leadership as a whole, it raises the question of what is really happening there, and creates a space when any manipulation is picked up and carried across the information space. and how does it affect the war with russia, how does it affect society, how does this affect the morale of those currently on the front lines? well, that is, they are not... understanding and absentee discussion, because we see an absentee discussion, we see people who take part in an extracurricular discussion, there is a team of the president who throws something in the wrong, there is a wrongdoing team, obviously, which answers in absentia yes to president zelensky himself, how does all this affect the army, does it affect

the army, and how will it be used? the russian federation, because they, for them it is one of the elements to create tension within ukrainian society, because it is clear that the level of trust in zaluzhny is equal to the level of trust in the zsu, well, it turns out that while the head of the zsu is zulzhny, the trust of the zsu is equal to the trust in zaluzhny, isn't that right, well, not quite right, because there is no... a certain correlation of trust in of the armed forces as an institution and certain figures, which force is identified with this institution, in particular, some private offices record that this gap between the institution and the family name, it is already happening, this is the first, and secondly, as soon as god forbid, it will stop to be a boss, you can measure it will be his personal rating and personal trust, let's say in a few months, and we will see

that the rating will be a little lower, well a little , much lower than what it is when he is in his position, and the trust in the zsu will remain quite high, so this thing with ratings, well, i would n't worry too much about it, but to what extent it affects society, not the resignation, directly, the immediate resignation itself, but the situation of uncertainty, when there is this misunderstanding of everything, the whole picture, uncertainty in relations, which is extrapolated to ... on some expectations from the military-political leadership, they really have a negative effect, because it causes strategic disorientation, gives the impression that the government is in some kind of strategic helplessness, that there is a constantly active conflict that can manifest itself and decide to be in some unexpected way and it is not known when and it is not known what the unpredictable personnel decision of the political leadership in relation to the military command will be, this is all...

accumulates further contradictions between the parties and affects the planning of the military operations, it creates problems for communication, military leadership, and political leadership, so i would not be afraid of the resignation of the zaluzhnu himself, but that such a situation of uncertainty will continue to persist and generate greater toxicity, that's what i was more afraid of. thank you, mr. vitaly, we are joined by volodymyr fisenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the center of applied fields. of penta's research, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. yes, congratulations, good evening. we are already with oleksiy and with vitaly, in relation to the last of these, there were information leaks regarding the resignation of zaluzhny from the post of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. how do you perceive this whole story that unfolded, well, literally during the last two hours, and which we witnessed

and... are there reasons to wait for a decree on the resignation of the head of state, if not today, then in some near future? well, i think that someday it will happen, it is inevitable, there are no permanent people in positions, everything changes, regarding the resignation of the meritorious person, and not only that, rumors there were, the last somewhere, well, two weeks or so... there were rumors about possible rotations in the power bloc, that is, not only regarding the position of the commander of the armed forces, but also about some other heads of the power structures, i understand that it was discussed, evaluated a variant of certain casting, throwing people from one place to another.