everything would be fine, but the public debate is that dmytro drozdovsky is a person who has been caught plagiarizing several times, and it was more than once, the academic community knows about it, and now dmytro rozdovsky is receiving the rylsky prize. moreover, bohdan stasiuk, another translator, wrote on facebook about... who is andrew shepard, who together with drozdovsky receives the rylsky prize. and it turned out that , in addition to this, the translator andrew shepard is the editor of the journal of the british-russian, british-russian society east-west review. on the cover of the first issue for the last year of this edition, there is, you can see a portrait of nikolai vtorov with children, on a fabber egg and... a lily of the valley, so that's

it, that's what you see, these lily of the valley, actually, this is a collection of the sanctioned russian oligarch vekselberg, i don't want to moralize, we are actually talking about literature and about awards, and my first question, rossislav, for you is, how should we treat such a story with this award, how should we react to it? is it just to expect that such state awards will leave together with the generation of people who represent them? well, this is a bad story , especially since there are such unpleasant connections, and of course, there are many structures that, under the guise of, let's say, slavic studies in the world, actually promoted russian studies, promoted their own. this myth about the great russian

literature, they still work in the world and even in leading universities, but the majority of specialists in slavic studies are actually russians, this is a consequence of imperial policy, it is clear that this must be fought, well, here it is already accordingly the effect, so of course, somewhere it is easier for them to access both the premium and in general. resources, but the story itself is bad , it is very good that there is this resonance, it is clear that we need to ask questions in a broader sense, why the ukrainian community, especially the community that is in a state of war, should pay for this, yes, if it a state award, but there are, of course, radical views that there should be no state awards at all, but in any case it should be limited...

especially since it may not remain there, let's say shevchenkovska, and that's enough , especially since, well, many of them are compromised where they are compromised, where they are compromised, and it is very easy to determine whether the award is compromised or not, whether anyone has seen this book, whether it had any resonance, in general, what do we pay for, here it makes sense to ask the question in a mercantile way, these are taxes, everyone pays for... taxes, everyone asks the question, here was a response from the film community, so with an appeal that there should not be these discussions about what the state cinema finances, which it finances films, because a lot often these are films that many people do not perceive, so there are some comedy series in the middle of war and tragedy, and they offered this appeal , the state budget offers it.

transfer the budget of the state cinema to the needs of the armed forces of ukraine, and it is reasonable, well, all the more so, i say, if the award has compromised itself, then the question should be asked, i think there should be some kind of general investigation, in what way such laureates were determined, especially if there is a connection, well, with such a russian policy, because this. yes, the oligarch appears somewhere, this is definitely one of the means of promoting this magazine, means of promotion of the russian interest. now it turns out that we, it turns out, that we somehow pay for it in some way and are tangential to it, that is, we legitimize it, in fact , this contradicts our general, with our general setting for the cancellation of the russian culture for denial. oblivion, there are moratoriums, i do

n't know, it can be discussed in different ways, but it is not necessary, so there should be a reaction and it is good that there is a resonance, here that also. also a story about reputation as such, yes, because it's not just about this man that andrew shepard, who heads this journal of the russian british-russian society, but also about dmytro drozdovsky, about whom there were also many discussions, so bohdan tycholos, the director of the frank house, accused him of plagiarism, and the institute of literature admitted that 64% of plagiarism was in the work drozdovsky and and and and in parallel with this, a person continues to receive awards, that is , it turns out that there are some different parts of the community, both cultural ukrainian, and people, people without a reputation and people with a reputation, and these communities, these blossoms seem to never change, no

intersect, you said about the state cinema, so many people criticize marina kuderchuk there, yes or a lot, but this parallel reality is the same. continues to exist, and so here, people with a reputation, people without a reputation, and these are two worlds that cannot, that cannot, it is clear, come to an agreement, but they cannot overcome each other. when it comes to the institution of reputation, i begin to think about the lingering romanticism of the ukrainian community, because it is good if the institution of reputation exists, but it is something very amorphous and... defined, that is, there must be clear structural solutions, yes, that is, someone should sue, there is a debate about plagiarism, it is necessary to sue, that is, there is a law according to which it should work, yes, there are mechanisms, but now there is

another struggle for the introduction relevant candidates, candidates who were actually responsible. in the ukrainian cultural fund, yes, that is, there are structures, it is necessary to use these provisions that have been approved, as a rule, the provisions are good, just pay attention, try to act, take some steps so that it was changing, because it will not change by itself, that is, the reputation can be damaged, but people forget, in the end, people do not have exactly the same problems, there must be organizational conclusions, that is, people with no reputation. they are so skilled mostly that it is very difficult for them purely formally, they are very bureaucratized people, by the way, i want to quote andriy bonder, another wonderful writer, translator, who wrote on facebook about this story, and

you know why everything happened like this , is meant with a premium for this andrew shepard, bo to a place where there is no honor and conscience, where there is a detachment from... and i'm sorry that i 'm talking about this for so long, i promised you to start talking about what we read, how we perceive literature, but it also concerns yes, because everything escalates very much during the war, i am starting to talk about literature, i will start with history, on january 22, on the day of the catholic church, i noticed that we congratulate each other on the day of catholic church on the networks, and we write in our bubble that this is the day of conciliarness, it is dedicated to that, because it was 105 years ago what happened, the zuners united, the fourth station wagon and so on, i saw that

i thought it was a symptom of what it means that the nation was deprived of this knowledge, if we tell each other about it, yes, because americans do not welcome od ... one with the day of thanksgiving there or from there independent day or something, but you know there on july 4, 76th year 1776 such and such happened, and just as surely in literature, and just as surely in literature that we, that we are now re-reading the classics and saying oh yes it was, this is exactly what it was about, eh what eh, who are the authors now, except for, say, the obvious ones there, say, the tiger hunters of bagryany. or the barques with the yellow prince, which for you personally opened up in a new way during this war? well, they actually opened up, in fact , authors began to open up a long time ago, yes, in the 90s, but we did not have that resonance, yes,

that is, now they are reaching a wider resonance , what the academic community had, to which it was accessible, somewhere educational community, it was somewhere in such a shadow for a long time, i remember very well the attitude towards bagryany back there 10 years ago therefore, that is, there were quite a lot of skeptics who said that, well, he is... so journalistic, and he talks about politics all the time and about politics like that, that is, this - maybe not and not so well written there is the hetsiman garden, yes these are political works, and now they are timely, they are emphasized, because they are actually about such a rather direct confrontation there with the empire, with the russian russian world, and this is... it is good that these texts get such an impulse, that is important the text

that came back somewhere now, uh, was the text, well, it is beyond the limits of pain of roman spatoryanskyi, he wrote it in the 21st year, 1621, he was just a combatant, he survived the war, the first world war, captivity, then his return from captivity, and this is one of the earliest such texts about the first world war in general in european literature. one of the first, but for a long time, well, experts there knew that there was such a work, but it remained so unknown for a long time, because, well, there are a number of reasons, after all , he fought in the austrian army, he wanted to get into legion of sich riflemen, but did not get in, he fought as part of the austrian army, but against the russian army, accordingly, he was not perceived in the union either. oh, well, it's still such a very serious anti-war work, that is, against war, against those who start war,

everything is very clearly put in its place, now it's back, it was republished, it went away, and uh, there it is yes, this is one of those texts which, it is very difficult , you have to prepare for reading it, but you must read it in school, well, if not read textually, then at least remember, but in the end read, it is not very big. here is a very important text, of course in a different way comes to light now , the authors of the shot revival are perceived in a completely different way, yes, that is, now because the tragedy has become, unfortunately, now close, and we really see that they are dying, that is , authors are dying, writers are dying, and again and again, and many... people are yes, friends, relatives who died, that is, death became, unfortunately,

closer, and that is why this tragedy, because it is a tragedy, and i do not know if there is any other literature, where they would be shot in one day so many writers who would be shot like november 3, there the day before, the day after the 37th year, this is a tragedy, but it was perceived somehow so slightly abstractly, it is somewhere so far away, it happened a long time ago, now this reassessment is underway. and everyone begins to realize that on the one hand, well, when pidmohylyny was shot, he was 34 or so years old there, that is, it is quite young, on the other hand, he managed to write some short prose and two very good novels during these 34 years, that is, it took place in such a short time, as well as the wave e and other e, among whom were simply geniuses, as there, for example, mykola. that we had such cool ones

authors, and then they were forced to shut up, or, for example, the zinoide tulup, this is the first such a big one, because several women wrote on historical topics before her, but she is the first known serious historical novel of a manhunter, so she is also. .. it was published there sometime in 1936-1937, she was immediately arrested and sent away, she spent something like 10 or 15 years in exile in siberia, and she returned, well, she no longer wrote here like that, and at that time, when in europe , a decade before, a norwegian woman writer was awarded the nobel prize for a historical novel is being sent to us , that is, to kolyma, that is, as we are in the union, it is not our state, that is, it is a feeling on the one hand of a tragedy, on the other hand a feeling

of a lost entire area of ​​literature, but this results in a strong desire get acquainted with what was done, because after all , a lot was done, and this applies to the whole literature in general, but also to individual characters, here you can talk about each of them separately. and these are really a lot of names that did not have time for much, but did have time for something, and this results in such... a very serious interest in the classics , a reassessment, the fact that the school has been moving for a long time according to such post-soviet inertia, well, some theme, these typical themes, were emphasized there, even to the point of monotony, there serfdom, serfdom, village, serfdom, and the others were not mentioned, yes, that is

, well, you have a show of the soviet school, the soviet school, but for a long time it also continued in the ukrainian school, yes, that is... the deaf levytskyi is still there now, the kaidash family, and this is history about, so, quarrels in the village, let's say yes, now it has been emphasized by the series, it is good for this text, but it is necessary to show that there are other works of nechuy levytskyi, well, clouds first of all, on the one hand , very clearly, well, the text shows the difference very clearly, here is ukrainian culture, this is russian culture, that is, he saw it then. this civilizational gap that we have now , which we are beginning to realize, many are beginning to realize only now, it is in the clouds, and on the other hand, it is the kyiv text, it is about the city, it is about urban habits, daily life, lifestyle, that is it is important to show that literature was not as weak and

monotonous as it was shown in soviet times, it is clear why, and also due to a certain inertia. a long time later , they also read kobylyanska's earth for a long time, again the village , the conflict over the land, now it's good , the program has changed a little, they are now reading waltz melancholic, the text is emancipatory, the text is again urban, urbanistic, where there is something to think about, although in the land too there is something to think about, her, this is also a good text, it’s just that they simplified it a lot, they always simplified it to such a bare social relationship of some kind, yes that... it needs to be rethought, it is being rethought, and that is why there is such an interest in the classics now. do you think that you said that a new national myth is being created, yes, it is being formed, well, in fact , the national myth of ukraine has already been formulated, what kind of myth is it, and is a new

canon of literature being created in the same way, or will it have an influence? the same applies to literature, whether it or these things are not related, here first of all it should be noted that myth, again there was such a soviet statement, myth as a distortion of reality, as something that opposes science, there are dark some ideas, ee myth, mythology - this is a er sacred sacred story about heroes, and since we now have heroes, a new ee mythology is being created in us. and of course its result will be the emergence of an epic, that is, an epic layer will appear in ukrainian literature, next to the novel, it does not mean that you will stop writing novels, but it is already being created, there you can quote songs, here is poetry, her song, they they react faster,

ee and accordingly an epic is composed of them, such an epic of sniper shooters, again there are many of them. these songs are also epic and such ballads and marches and requiems and humorous songs , that is, this is such a wide layer, but some of them are epic about riflemen who, uh, fight for the freedom of ukraine, and now we have simply completely mythological figures, yes , a mythological figure, i i say positively, it's like hercules, theseus. in the same way, even now there are already figures that acquire the signs of such legendary status, maybe, if someone does not like the word myth, we can talk about legend, yes, there are legendary figures, there are cyborgs, yes, there is a heavenly hundred, cyborgs, there is a ghost of kyiv, yes , of course, there are even some legendary figures that have a slightly humorous, comical

color, but they still work as legendary figures, for example, pespatron, that 's all. this is a legendary creature and, well, a hero , but somewhere it causes a smile, but there are also quite serious ones, is there an azovstal, that is, yes, that is, it is very important that such a thing appears, because it means that the feat will not be leveled, it will not forgotten. ah, you wrote in your wonderful book adventures of ukrainian literature, which i will ask you about separately, but eh. you wrote about the time of the titans, you have this whole chapter called the time of the titans, about this big shift and big energy in literature after the first world war. the war, when these great novelists appeared, yes, starting with joyce, thomas mann, kafka and all the rest, and how do you, how do you imagine

our literature, our culture, after the kind of bloodshed that we have now, do we have, do we have a chance for a time of titans, i think so, i think it's a... sad but a pattern, after great upheavals, comes a time of great literature, it's not because that, well, actually, this is a problem, that this happens, but this happens in principle always, because literature is about experience, and war is a very extreme and very powerful experience. and now there is a lot of military experience related to war, this is the first, of course, the experience of those who are in direct confrontation, the experience of soldiers, the experience

of trenches, trenches there, but this experience of volunteers , this experience of refugees, migration, this is the experience of occupation, this , that is, it is a lot, it is the experience of being in the vaults, so many different moments. which will be spoken, well, and on the other hand, actually, a lot of people are starting to write, there are several writing courses out there, there are courses, by the way, specifically for veterans, the voice of war at internews, there is the summer of the world, there is a whole series of writing courses, and they have them now there are a lot of listeners, that is, people want to pass on this experience, do not want to write it out. it is therapeutic, on the one hand, to say that the collection voice of war, the first anthology, can be found online, people want to write out, spill

this experience, that is why new writers appear , they are already being written about, and there are those who, having gone to the front, were already there. good or not bad and writers, poets, and even quite titled ones, for example, there is dmytro lazudin, he is currently on the short list of the shevchenko prize, by the way, there are prizes that adequately determine, of course, well, there are always scandals around, but simply a question of trust or distrust of those who get there, yes, that is, there in the public. well, they wrote even before that, and yaryna chornogus and lazutkin, and

artem cheh, there was arkiyan kamysh, chapai, well, that is , there was a whole series of pavlomat, you can to list, but elizaveta zharikova is a poet, she is literally the first, well, the collection was published before the war, there is igor mitrov, but there are also those who... started in wartime, actually under the influence of wartime impressions, about which, well, less was heard before or they didn’t hear, here, like valery puzik, there, let’s say, martin brest, or oleksiy paykin, that is, them, or vitaliy zapeka, they started writing after the beginning, after the beginning, but after the 14th, yes, that is, the war was already going on, and they began to appear, here is tsutsik, by the way, a look at the war. dogs this is vitaliy zapeky, he appeared somewhere in the 16th or 15th year, and now he already has several books, that is, in fact, there are many new authors and female authors, may they all

return from the war unscathed, and they will to write, and it will be such an outbreak as after the first world war or after the second world war, of course, it also wants unpleasant things, the next... the question is so difficult, it will probably be about the moral right to write, i will now ask the editor to show, show a screenshot of the article, the interview itself, which was taken by hanna ulyura, with natalka bilotserkivets, a beautiful poetess, and natalka bilotserkivets says this, here is such an opinion, i am interested to hear yours, your analysis of this. natalka bilotserkivyts writes: i recently read an interesting opinion that the best works about the war will be written by those who did not fight directly. i even admit that the best

works about... our war, primarily cinema and prose, can be created even by non-ukrainians and not in ukraine, for those who were on the battlefield, it can be unbearably difficult to move away from the inevitable perception of only blackness on the battlefield and white, absolute evil and of unerring goodness, so individual short black-and-white works of a high level are possible, but not full-scale, not only in the sense of size, in the sense of the complexity of plots and character. actors, i was very impressed by this thought, since it is very subtle, what do you think, well, i really like poetry, natalka bilotserkivets, she is one of the best poets, at the end of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st century, but here i am not i agree, even if we think about the same first world war, and such iconic works that are known to everyone, there is remarque, hemingway, ivlinvo, eh... okay, hashik

in a different tone, ernst jünger, well, that is, there is a whole set of these texts, which are known more, they are all combatants, that is, obviously someone wrote about the war from afar, so these works appeared somewhere, somewhere, but we know about the war, the first works of combatants, this, of course, does not mean that such works cannot appear, and we understand, well... for example, we understand that uh, so the waveman did not shoot his mother, but he wrote it imagining it, yes, that is, experience in literature yes happens, the experience can be imagined and it will be a strong text, so are we we know that kotsyubynskyi came to the curve for a week, looked and wrote the best text about the carpathians so far, well, many

of the carpathian authors... may not agree, but okay, it turned out like this, that is, he did not have much experience of the carpathians , he got there twice or three or there several times and wrote the best text about the carpathians, that is , it is quite possible, but direct experience still matters, and therefore i think that the strongest books will be written by those who have direct experience, but i say there are very... different experiences, there are experiences, for example , of emigration, and those who are now in emigration, they will write about it, there are experiences there, children in the bomb shelter, and those who experienced it, they will write it, yes, that is, again, let's go to klimko, hryhora tyutyunnyk, the boy is 11 years old there, through the occupied territory, he goes there more than 100 km, on foot, he goes there for a week, he sees it all, and this, war through the eyes of war,

that is, yes, but of course, of course, this there will not be uniform works, i.e. probably many will want to write down their experience, but the texts remain stronger, i.e. among those who had this experience, stronger ones will appear, but they will remain, in any case, i think, here we certainly cannot make any generalizations, because regarding li'. our situation now is very unique, if we think again about the texts about war that we know in the world, then either these texts are written from the position of those who are disillusioned with the war, so the german soldier, poisoned by propaganda, goes to the front to fight against, here is the yarmarka transfer, and goes to the front to fight against the french, and

paris in three days, well, that is... with that they leave to the front, and here they see that this is dirt, that this is death, that this is mutilation, and they see, this is this literature, war literature of insight, eh, it means that a person went to the front blind, he does not know why she got there, uh, and then she understands that war is scary, and before she thought that it was a walk, and this is not our situation at all, it is war through the eyes of a victim. after losing, and this was once our situation, so malaniuk, combatant, daragan, lost military competitions, all actually in the 20s very many, because they first fought for the ukrainian people's republic, and then many went to the soviet red army there, that's how the wave soldier fought, in general, at first he was a rebel against everyone, so...