then she passed on the information and now she is in the cells of a russian prison . in fact , information about such cases is received, but it was not, let's say, verified, but this case, it was already verified and yesterday i was informed that, unfortunately, it happened that a person provided certain information. at the call of one of the supposedly pro-ukrainian channels, and after some time the occupiers came to this person and there they provided her with information about what she had written in the telegram channel, conveying this information, and the person is now taking measures against her and trying to accuse her of treason against the occupying state, unfortunately, we hope that this will be an isolated case there. and everything will end,

let's say, more or less normally, but one must understand that media literacy is a habit that should be among the citizens of ukraine, especially those who live in the temporarily occupied territory, well, the same habit as, excuse me, brush your teeth from the morning, that is, you cannot use telegram to transmit any information that may pose a threat to such people, you cannot brush your teeth with a toilet brush. i would say so, i am mr. volodymyr, i was really surprised that in principle someone still uses telegram, well, it is good that at least not classmates, but now i want to talk to you, focus attention on what is happening on the propaganda front , which has not stopped hostilities there by the occupiers, has not stopped for 10 years, this long term and it affects.

consciousness, despite the fact that there are indeed many people in crimea who remain ukrainians, who absolutely do not obey this government, well, they formally live there, but do not serve it, and vice versa, they do everything they can for ukraine , but, but, what on your, in your opinion, on the scale, on the narratives, now the influence of this propaganda. on residents of our temporarily occupied territories, in particular crimea. well, actually, human psychology is such that if he has no alternative sources of information, so even if she is very, let's say, makes very crazy arguments, but she uses this information there, she is still exposed to this information, that is, how deep is this influence, then i believe that what it is, and it really now in... very important, moreover

, it, the russians are constantly changing it, they are strengthening it through various measures, in particular, for example, now the so-called project to install free equipment of free of these satellite dishes, which they called, well, very strange, to do otherwise they called it russian peace, this project, unfortunately, is their additional influence, an attempt to influence both... the territory of crimea and the territory of the so-called newly occupied territories. i would call it, mr. volodymyr, noodle plates, well, actually. yes, but, but lakshina is not very tasty, in fact, i would say, she is even, sorry, she is poisonous, she is dangerous for the mental health of a person. ugh. mr. volodymyr, what should we do in such conditions?

how should we act in this direction of information, because unfortunately, when the occupiers strengthen, constantly maintain the level and mass of propaganda, unfortunately , the opposite has happened in our country in recent years , it started even before the full-scale invasion, when the only crimean tatar tv channel atr was deprived of state support, it simply provoked, caused treatment, well, i don’t know , as it is in the ukrainian language. to say, they just like it, no, on the contrary , the russians, they were very happy about it, yes, and it was such an absolute victory for them, well , one cannot but agree with this, when such an enemy, weakens there by a factor of 100, like the tr tv channel, which was such a powerful tool of counter-propaganda, now, unfortunately, there is almost no one in the team. well, the minimum

number of people, just to ensure the minimum broadcasting, news in the crimean language, in the ukrainian language, and there are a few left over the air analytical... programs, we do everything we can, even without money, the main thing for us now is support there 48 -th separate assault battalion, the commander of which was created by lyno ruslyamov, general director of our tv channel, but what is what is what is, and the situation is not changing at all, it will soon be the third year of the full-scale invasion, and how in such conditions, when the emphasis is on the crimean direction, well, frankly, there is no, here is our program somewhere else can. .. there is something, but it’s definitely not much, what are you like, as a member of the national council for television, radio broadcasting specifically in the crimean direction, what, what are your thoughts, what are the prospects, what to do, in fact, you can’t lay down your arms, sir, well first of all i want to say that i

not a member of the national council, i am a representative, i am very sorry, but for the audience it is small, you are a representative of the national council in general, it is a slightly different situation, because... a member of the national council, he actually makes decisions, but collegially, and the representative national councils are still somewhat an administrative position, but i can say that i, for example, see at least three directions, the first direction is about what you said, that's it and now i'm trying there, how can i do this issue, change it principle, to change the legislation in terms of support state support for media dealing with crimean issues, which issues related to crimea in the ukrainian media, this is the first, personally, well, my attitude to this is that the mechanism provided for by the legislation today is a peacetime mechanism , and it cannot be used in our situation, because it is ineffective, it needs to

be developed another mechanism that will clearly provide an opportunity to make powerful materials precisely for those media that understand the crimean topic. so that we don't have cases like, for example, there, sorry, certain there, low-grade humor, there is a diesel show, or something else related to the crimeans, this is unacceptable. the second direction that i see, in particular, if we are talking about their, let's say, russian world, is to turn to the international, international telecommunication union, to turn to certain appeals from ukraine. parties regarding the application of certain algorithms that will allow influencing the use of the radio frequency resource by the russians for their propaganda, that is, in the direction that it cannot be used, and the third is very powerful

the mechanism, as i see it, is sanctions, it is to add these people who produce this equipment, and this project cannot... exist without equipment, to add them to the list of sanctions, first in ukraine, then world sanctions. in fact, this is a very powerful mechanism, and the russians, well, they feel it, this is the main thing, when they take away your money, when they take away your market, and you can no longer exist there, it simply ceases to exist and any technical support for this project, these three areas are at least required to develop, mr. volodymyr, and why... some additional mechanism will be involved here , you know, when we talk about countermeasures by enemy unmanned aerial vehicles, we are talking about means of radio-electronic warfare, that is , there is always a countermeasure to any action, can we technologically, i don't know, to set up some equipment that would be able to interrupt this

russian signal, to harm at least, to deform it, well, that's right, you know, the idea, unfortunately, is more for technical specialists, but... the information that , which i see with a crimean who helped him, took them into space, and now they are using it, including for propagandistic sabotage against ukraine, so it must be corrected somehow in other ways, tell me what we can do, huh, i think , first of all, well, you know this, if it’s not my level, but ukraine... its satellites, its relay satellites 100%, that libit, which has not taken off in our country for many, many years, unfortunately, it did not take off he thanks in quotes to our neighbor the occupier who, where he is and there is this libit left, this should become

so, you know, very difficult, bitter, but a lesson in order to act not after the fried rooster pecks, but before this rooster... does not happen, ugh, mr. volodymyr , another question that will concern, well , actually those, once even representatives of local ukrainian media in the territory. of temporary crimea, who chose the russian measure for themselves, so to speak, and now they are washing the cities not only for the residents of the temporarily occupied crimea, but also in fact carrying out their propaganda activities on the territory of the temporarily occupied southern regions of our country. we spoke with the representatives of the prosecutor's office, and the prosecutor ponochevny actually noted that each individual case will require... additional study, that is, whether this or that journalist was aware of what he was doing, this or that

anchor or anchor that with his mouth, through the tv screen, she commits a crime there against the state of ukraine, or against his fellow citizens, in general, or in your opinion , in particular, as a representative of the national council on television and radio broadcasting, we should not somehow unify the approach? to these people , because war, because war and participation in the propaganda line on the side of the enemy, is as if it were the same for the army to take direct part in the enemy, well, you understand, mr. panachovy, he spoke from his side, from the side of a person who is engaged in criminal proceedings, and there criminal proceedings are proceedings connected with the fate of a person, well , it so happened that even there even. if a person created or did something bad, only the court can recognize him as a criminal, there

is no other, and this is a principle, this is a principle of a civilized society, in our case , with regard to unification, it is most likely impossible to do this, but i will note that in the law of media there is promedia, in particular there is such a point that if it is established that with respect to a certain person or a certain media, a person who has relation to the media, criminal proceedings will either be initiated, or a sentence passed that has already entered into legal force, this, let's say, figure, he will not be able to take any further part in the work of the media on the territory of ukraine. i can say that the national council is doing some work in this direction, of course, we won't talk about it now, because if we do talk about it. they will know about it, we don't need the people it affects to know about it yet, but it's really a long

job, the only thing i want to remind those who do it in the rear is that they should carefully review the materials of the nyubin process and will look at the number, let's say, of those propagandists who were sentenced, including to death, after this neuben trial, if they want to repeat them before... well, that's their choice. mr. volodymyr, or not in your opinion, at least create, compile and publish a list of propagandists who work for citizens of ukraine, including those who work in temporarily occupied territories, or this, it seems to me, it is not impossible, look, in fact, this list is being compiled , so that you understand, but i would not make it public. until a certain moment, i will explain, this is procedural, because while a person does not know

that something is happening to him, it is quite simple to record his actions, if as soon as a person finds out that something is happening to him, she begins to mask her actions, and this in a certain way complicates the situation with prosecutions, so, nevertheless, i would not be in a hurry to make this list public, it is made public. already when the evidence has been determined and collected in relation to this person, and there is already a certain, let's say, procedural moment that will make it possible to bring him to justice, so that he cannot go abroad later and say that there is something political about him there persecution, you know, they already go abroad with ukrainian passports, for example, the former director of the racist propaganda channel millet ee... i just forgot his name, i just can't remember it now, he went to the united states with a ukrainian

passport, yes i know this moment, it's actually one of those moments that are very difficult, because you know that, unfortunately, we do not have agreements with the united states on the extradition of legal criminals, but i can say that for a certain time he will feel safe there, maybe safe, but the situation will change. and i hope that this person will still get to us and get it his sentence ugh. and literally lastly, a few words with your permission about the move. mental cognitive de-occupation of crimea, when the time comes, we understand that the preparatory work is already slowly underway, the ministry of education and science of ukraine is revealing to us a little under the veil how they will work with minor residents, in particular, in crimea in this direction, what are the main points would you

highlight here? in fact, cognitive de-occupation is not a specific moment, it is very, very, in my opinion, stretched over time process, and it is the beginning of cognitive de-occupation, as it may sound wrong, it has already begun, because now, what is cognitive de-occupation, is a change in the consciousness of the population of ukraine regarding events related to crimea, because let's be frank for a large part of ukrainians, crimea - this is the sun-sea or bureks, i rested there, for such people who were born there, especially... for representatives of the extreme people, the extreme peoples of ukraine, this, this is the only territory where they formed as a people, and here is this moment very important, that is, we need to understand that, well, for example, let's take the crimean tatars, they are not some other people from another history, from another planet in general, they are a part of the ukrainian nation

that has something in common with ukraine, with ukrainians, with ukrainian history, it was not always there for... it is pleasant for us and everything else, but this is part of the ukrainian nation, and therefore you cannot say we and them, it is all of us, this is one of the moments of cognitive de-occupation, but if we start to realize these moments now, it will make it much easier in the future , firstly, and secondly, this is the beginning, you know, when, as they say, the ice has melted, that is, there will still be such a big glacier and it will be easier for us. because the russians use this very moment, they drove a wedge between us, they show that historically we are completely different peoples, that we are one people there with them, and this is a different people there, which is always something like that, in fact, this is the problem , which needs to be solved with the help of cognitive de-occupation, so it has already started, it is already happening,

and this, but it has been working, mr. volodymyr, since the time of catherine ii, when we... have already started to generalize with the tatars who live on the volga river, by the way, previously many peoples of the empire called tatars simply so that musurmans, that is, we must say that we are crimeans and ukrainians, and this is our common history, and in it , and there was much more good than bad in it, everything that was bad, it did not work for the benefit of either crimeans, ukrainians or whatever. there are disputes, they have always been used only by muscovy in order to destroy both of them at the same time. mr. volodymyr, to you, yes, yes, moreover, i am like that i literally have a retort, these disputes were not only used by moscow, they were actually always financed and tolerated by this muscovy in ukrainian society, so we

need, well, no matter how it looks, away from muscovy. thank you, volodymyr lyashenko, the representative of the national council in the autonomous... republic of crimea and in the city of sevastopol joined our conversation, and what aydern said about, these are important, it seems, such small moments, just about how we perceive each other, as we call each other, no making elementary mistakes in each other's languages ​​is also extremely important, it's about education, roughly like saying, let's assume, not ukrainians, but ukrainian slavs. ugh, this is a complete mess, that's how i perceive this title: crimean tatars, what kind of tatars, where are tatars from, yes, and right after the break we will definitely talk about what is happening in the educational system of our country and why rationalization is, not always good, in particular when it comes to such sensitive points as relocated universities from

temporarily occupied territories, why the merger taurian national university with any other higher education institution in... our country is a very debatable issue, and now it is rising at the highest level, all this in a moment. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air on... time, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and what the world is about, two hours to be informed economic news and sports news, two hours

in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people, in the evening at espresso. we continue the joint project of the espresso tv channel and the atp tv channel. together, khrystyna yatskiv and ayder muzhdabaev are with you. and as promised, now we will talk about the processes in the educational process in our country. and let's start with the fact that a certain optimization is taking place now in the context of higher education institutions, it is connected with not the most pleasant ones, unfortunately. houses resulting from the war, i.e. a smaller number of applicants in general in ukraine, those obtaining higher education, this leads to the fact that some higher education institutions become

ineffective, and their existence, well, let's say, impose an additional financial burden on the state, but here it is very important , you know, it is sinful to separate from the righteous and understand where this optimization can really take place, and where this is a story about... well, almost the liquidation of one of the oldest universities in our country, which was relocated from the temporarily occupied crimea, this is the tavria national university, which now has an idea to unite with mogilian, as far as we understand, but i don't know how much it is from a professional point of view, how it looks, like optimization, maybe people who have it there came up with, they didn't mean anything bad. they wanted to do it better, how to do it better, but i simply look at it not as an educator, yes, but as what is the effect of this,

let’s say counter-propaganda , ukraine, what will russia say to the residents of crimea, what will the propagandists say, here's yours ukraine, and the only crimean university that it is, well, legally and physically. partially evacuated and, therefore, they resumed his work in kyiv, it cancels it, destroys it, everything , nothing, nobody needs you, ukrainian patriots in the crimea, that is, this is a signal to whom, to whom and what signal, that is, it didn’t work, you know , something didn't work out with this, something went wrong with this university, so let it, let it, let it not be, that is, the only, only, only crimean higher education institution, how is this possible at all, at all. you can make any reform, to change there, i don’t know , to change the personnel there, to change anything, but to destroy the very idea of ​​the crimean university,

well, i’m sorry, i don’t like it, maybe i’m stupid , but somehow it doesn’t sit well with me, but i want to tell you, that the russians, before using the narrative you just mentioned, should probably think about what they have already done to destroy tnu as such. in some there, some crimean academy, as it is now called, the word is not recognized anywhere, i do not know what weight these diplomas have in general, it is very unfortunate that similar the story is happening, gigantamania, and you, you studied there, yes, yes, i had such an experience, how can it be, how can it be. to close the university where khrystyna yatski studied is simply some kind of illogical phenomenon, let's join our conversation,

try to put such sober accents, nataliya pipa, people's deputy of ukraine and secretary of the verkhovna rada committee on education, science and innovation with us on "link" ms. natalya, congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to the hero, have a good day. well, watch while we're talking about tavriyskyi university, then i, first of all, in principle , after all... i look at what i do in education from the standpoint of the quality of education, yes, because this is the answer to everything, accordingly, we must look at the quality of education, which it will be in tavrivskyi, which it is at tauriv university, as far as i know, it is planned to create a crimean church, at kyiv-moholyan university, which is one of the best universities in ukraine today, and the position of the crimean tatars was very important to me in this, and i believe that metzhelis is just one of the strongest representatives, as well as tamil tasheva, as is authorized to deal with the crimean issues, all these people actually say that the creation of the crimean center in mohylyanka, actually, and not in some

mediocre one. the university should actually raise the quality of education, first of all for the crimean tatars themselves. currently, the university of tabrid is, well, it is difficult for me to give evaluations, because i have not personally analyzed each program, but from what i know, there are only 14 or 16 students who are studying the crimean tatar language, and there is only one teacher who can to teach the language of the crimean tatars and... accordingly, this is actually a challenge, that is why i first of all took this position, i do not know what the final decision will be, i heard different sides and delved into the details, the most important thing is what will happen with the quality of education in this institution and whether there will be a law, or whether this is actually what the crimean church, the kyiv-mogolyan academy is planning , will increase, for example, will increase the number of people who will learn the crimean-tatar language, who will work to ensure that we in ukraine,

tatars of the indigenous people knew at least 10 basic words, and be that as it may, if not in the primer, then i don’t know, teachers for the third or fourth grade, or at least with the study of the history of ukraine, mrs. natalya, it’s hard to disagree with you, by the way, ayder and i are right before the broadcast exchanged opinions on the topic of transliteration, that is , we are now on the path of liquidation of the only tavrian national university relocated from crimea in 2016. and not elementary things that need to be systematically dealt with at the scientific, expert level, and the state would have to to pay attention all these years and not allow a situation where oh okay the university is not very efficient let's destroy it, the university is a hundred years old ms. natalie, i agree with you, i understand that you are an expert and i am not against it either

, to generalize there somehow there to blame with... someone baselessly, but what brought this university in exile to such a state, it is probably someone's fault, and it is definitely not the fault of the students, and certainly not of the people who want to study , want to learn the crimean language, on the contrary, we have to develop this education, we we should encourage more people, students, teachers, ethnic ukrainians, crimeans, it doesn't matter. because i know that ukrainians love to learn ukrainian and the crimean language, yes , if there is already some optimization, we have to make it clear that it is temporary, that after the return of crimea the university will be restored, and here the following nuances follow, i am talking about i also want to hear your opinion, maybe you have heard about it, maybe not, then it will benefit everyone, including the audience, for example, this university needs to be like a brand. exactly for

return save, apply , bovrii tavria is part of the greek project of catherine ii, who introduced it to change all the names in the occupied territories of the south of ukraine and crimea, and tavria, tavrida, tavria direction, tavria university, that's it, then you know it, it's roughly like little russia , it is of such a order, that means the names, many people in power, in education , etc., do not think about this either, but we need to think about other things, for example, elementary language reform has not yet been carried out, elementary, i emphasize, this is a week of work specialists, no more, in our country all transliteration from the crimean language into the ukrainian language goes through the russian language, the most vivid, most shameful example is the bagchi barn, there is no bagchi barn, there is a bagcha, there even the sound r is like the common sound ee ukrainian, crimean, bagcha-sarai, bagcha is...