so, who should take responsibility for this draft law and for the mobilization process, that is, for presenting it to society. volodymyr zelenskyi, who will celebrate 5 years of his tenure as president on may 20, 2024, is responsible for this mobilization under ukrainian legislation. during this time the authority. dent could already be memorized in principle, i think, and accordingly understand that politicians and power, which is formed by people through elections, they should determine a certain matrix, the military should implement it, not the other way around, we don’t have a military junta, which they like to scare us with... the kremlin, we have a democratic state,

just zelenskyi’s team, i don’t think that he himself is so involved in this process, but zelenskyi’s team does not understand very well the fact that, in principle, there are enough unpopular decisions in ukraine at the moment... many for one simple reason, because there are no more popular decisions left, there are none, the war has been going on for such a long time, for so long, that popular decisions just technically there is not, and the president will have to act in such a way to carry out an effective mobilization. and therefore, accordingly, the question

of, for example, the government of national unity, its creation, this is not talk, it is a tool, if you will, an algorithm of spreading how the system of power should work at the moment, because we cannot conduct. elections during the war, but to change the government and restore the legal model in accordance with the constitution, to return from an office- presidential to a parliamentary- presidential republic, we simply obliged, this is our goal for today, we have to really work with it practically. otherwise,

various negative trials may await us. we must clearly understand for ourselves that one of the tasks of ukraine in this war is not to turn into a small russia. and this task is extremely difficult. on the one hand, and on the other hand, its successful implementation allows us to count on the help of the west, on the consolidation of ukrainian society, on the transformation, but the position when the president, as the supreme commander, you are absolutely right noted, they say that he...

well, it seems to be of no use here, at best it causes laughter, at worst, it causes misunderstanding, because our partners are used to the fact that everything must work according to the law, and the law is the president is responsible for mobilization, and he announces it, you understand, well, how are the military, well, that is... i don’t quite like this thesis that the military wants such and such mobilization from me, and i, as zelensky said before on press conferences before the new year that they demand to mobilize 400-500 thousand people, and i am against it, and what are we for or what? that is, well, this is, unfortunately, a situation in which the reluctance... to take responsibility

simply plays against the president himself, and he will feel it in a fairly quick time, because... in the conditions of war, the category of social time, it is very compressed, like that, but you just have to understand that society is exhausted on the one hand, in a state of exhaustion, it more sensitively notes for itself what are the similar information tricks that we all face, well, this is it, let's say... . yes the understatement when he talks about mobilization, and this constant hate, which we saw in earnest, spills over into what we saw today, because this is the end, in principle, of these misunderstandings, both public and non-public, literally 30 seconds, mr.

yevgeny, how how do you think this story of mobilization and the political and military leadership of the state will develop? i would very much like... that we form a government of national unity, and he takes responsibility for introducing this bill, and accordingly demonstrates how a political responsibility, and then we need this question, because mobilization is not only a military concept, it is a concept related to the economy, this concept is related to the social system, this concept is related to each of us, because... first that the war will last for a long time, an indefinite time, should be said on the mountain, and then the citizens should realize it. thank you, mr. yevhen, it was yevhen magda, director of the institute of world politics. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube platforms and

facebook, we are conducting a survey, we are asking you about whether you allow the freezing of the war with russia. so, intermediate results, 16% allow, 84, no. i congratulate you. this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. live news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season. exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. freedom life, frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions.

greetings, friends, the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. this is the second part of our issue. today we are talking about this. parliamentary crisis is looming. zelenskyi's associates are collecting mandates en masse. will

the government of national unity save the situation? cleaning of the defense system. those involved in the ammunition procurement scandal were detained. who is to blame for the projectile famine? ukraine is once again being offered to give up territory, or whether it is possible to freeze the war with russia in exchange for ukraine joining nato. we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes as our guests, but before introducing them, i would like to say that we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those watching us live there, please like this video. and also subscribe to our pages on these platforms, in addition, you can take part in the survey, we are asking you today about this, do you allow the freezing of the war with russia, yes no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if so, then press yes , no, no, press

on no if you are sitting watching us live on tv pick up your smart phone and vote if you allow a freeze on war with russia... 800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 call all calls to these numbers are free today friends at us political science. the studio would like to introduce today's guests, oleksiy holobutsky, political scientist, political technologist, deputy director of the situation modeling agency. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you. congratulations. vitaly kulyk, director of the center for researching civil society problems. sir vitaliy, i congratulate you too. i congratulate you. and we are still waiting for the inclusion of volodymyr fesenko, a political scientist, the chairman of the board of the center of applied political research of penta. gentlemen, let's start with today's news and the news that has been in the past two hours, i think that you have definitely followed

the story with the information about the dismissal of the worthy commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, and it was quite active, public people published information about social networks, published information about what they it is known about the resignation of zaluzhny, they say that a decree was signed on his dismissal, he was replaced by general budanov, and there is already a decree, then the office of the president of ukraine was not as prompt as we would like, but he denied this information, but for some time this information circulated and lived in society , what was it in your opinion, i.e. a deliberate insinuation by some group of people that this resignation took place, is it a leak of information that these decrees were signed, but simply not made public or? what was it, mr. oleksiyu? well,

it could be any of these options, absolutely, first of all, the situation has not yet been finalized, it is not known, absolutely, nevertheless , what, what happened, and whether it really happened, so far, i understand that only two people can say about it, who will finally provide point in this matter, at least for now, is it or for... or zaluzhny himself? zelenskyi didn't say anything in his evening address, we didn't hear zaluzhny either, so this is a situation that continues, behind, well, you understand, too many people, journalists gave this information, well, in a vacant place for sure she could not appear, but again , there is nothing strange, nothing new in this situation, i remember, it was summer somewhere. on the 22nd of the year, when i printed the post, well , i received information about the replacement

of zaluzh nasivskyi, therefore and after that during these two years, one way or another , this information appeared from time to time that zaluzh was going to be replaced or in some other way, so to speak, to solve his question, it is obvious that there is a problem, a problem of communication, a problem in the relationship. probably of all the people who make decisions during the war, after all, zaluzhnyy looks the most authoritative and, after all, the most independent from the office of the president, so he is absolutely logical, he does not like it, it is normal, absolutely within the limits of our reality, mr. oleksiy, but in this situation, when there was information... mariana bezugla's torpedo, and moreover, this torpedo attacked

valery zaluzhnyi quite actively, it is clear that this attack by mariana bezugla was considered as part of this plan to lead society to something or other, well at least an active part of this society, what can this resignation be? the problem, the problem , i think is not so much in retirement, the question is not so much in retirement, it is to equalize... the responsibility, let's say, of the military leadership with the political leadership, i think that the main goal in this, and not only to release the industrious, well, how can it be that there is an attack on the military, well, not even an attack, but there is a certain political discussion about the fact that, well, i am trying so hard with such words not to be too confrontational, that the military is not angels, that the military is also responsible for

the problems that are there at the front, and in general , the problem with mobilization is different there, and how else can we check the reaction of society to the fact that, after all, removing a soldier, it is possible to throw in such information, that is about to look at the reaction, and whether all this work that is being carried out was carried out by the same bezuz, well, and many others in order to reduce ... , this was the purpose of the current information attack, which i repeat, it is not over yet. after all, this is how it will end when we see zaluzhny at his workplace. thank you, mr. oleksiy, mr. vitaliy, but why doesn’t zelenskyy come out now and write a statement and say, we don’t have any problems at all with zaluzhny, someone is scolding us, someone is dispersing this information about the resignation of the head of the armed forces of ukraine,

if this problem no, then it is not a problem for zelensky to record a short video. and to say that there are no questions, well, in fact , there are questions, there are problems in the relationship, i agree with oleksiy, all the rumors also arise in a difficult place, and about the fact that there really are problems, about the fact that there is a contradiction between the bank and the head office, this is with ket polishenel, everyone knows about this, and these issues have not been removed , and it was possible to make a joint video with the zaluzhny a long time ago. not only a photo, but to record a joint video, where to shoot any questions, but this is not done , that is, it means that there really are contradictions, and these contradictions, they accumulate, they are complicated, and accordingly, beyond the scope of any communication, such live communication between two people who manage the military sphere and the political sphere does not take place, so

it is obvious that this also creates space for... these simply for information operations in kydiv, which we observed today, and even more than once, escalated the question of zaluzhny's resignation, but i would say that , for example, today i do not rule out that there was no smoke without fire, moreover, i would not be fascinated by mr. zaluzhny, and it was said that the attack on zaluzhny. this is some kind of political-technological special operation, which is only there in political competition is not the case, because there are questions for mr. zaluzhnyi, and there are questions for the general staff, and sometimes what bezula says has a real basis, and these are objective questions that she asked, a question to another, a question in a uniform , as she did it, but the questions, they are real, and these

are questions asked by military personnel , including officers, and these and these questions are not answered by the general staff... by and large, they really do not answer, therefore this miscommunication and attempts to find out some strategic dates emphasis should be placed with the help of non-disclosure of the national media, communication with each other and with the ukrainian people through foreign mass media, and we see this all the time, one program statement, a program interview of mr. zaluzhny, and then... a program interview yes, mr. zelenskyi, but to whom is this a foreign publication, not a ukrainian one, it seems strange to me that this kind of communication, and this is all superimposed, it causes distrust in the authorities, it causes distrust in the military-political leadership as a whole, it raises the question of what is really happening there, and creates a space where any manipulation is picked up and carried

across the information space, and how does it affect the war? with russia, how does it affect society, how does it affect morale , who is currently at the front, well, that is , there are misunderstandings and extramural discussions, because we see an absentee discussion, we see people who take part in an extramural discussion, there is a team of the president , which throws something to the lad there, there is a team lad, obviously, which responds in absentia, as well... to president zelensky, how does this all affect the army, does it affect the army, and how does the russian federation use it, because they, for them, it is one of the elements to create tension within ukrainian society, because it is clear that the level trust in zaluzhnya is equal to the level of trust in the armed forces,

well, this is how it turns out that while the head of the zsu is zaluzhny, then trust... zsu is equal to trust in zaluzhny, isn't that right? well, not quite so, because there is not a certain non-correlation of trust in the armed forces, in the constitution, in certain figures that inspire this institution. in particular, some municipal offices record that this gap between the institution and the family name is already happening, this is the first thing, and secondly, as soon as god forbid it gets involved. ceases to be a leader, we can measure his personal rating and personal trust, let's say, in a few months, and we will see that the rating will be a little lower, well, not a little, much lower than when he is in his position. and trust in the armed forces will remain high enough, so this thing with ratings, well, i wouldn't worry too much about it, but to what extent it affects society, not

the immediate resignation, the immediate resignation itself, but the situation of uncertainty, when there is this misunderstanding of everything, the whole picture, uncertainty in relations, which is extrapolated on some expectations from the military. leadership, they really have a negative impact, because it causes strategic helplessness, it creates the impression that the government is in some kind of strategic helplessness, that there is a constantly active conflict that can manifest itself and decide to be in some unexpected way, it is not known when and it is not known what the unpredictable personnel decision of the political leadership will be in relation to the military command, this all accumulates further contradictions between the parties and... affects the planning of military operations, it creates problems for communication, military leadership, political leadership, so i would here i was no longer afraid of the resignation

of the stalwart himself, but that such a situation of uncertainty would continue to persist and generate greater toxicity, that's what i was more afraid of. thank you, mr. vitaly, to us joins volodymyr fisenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the center for applied political research of penta. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. yes, congratulations, good evening. oleksiy and vitaliy and i have already talked about these latest information leaks regarding the resignation of zaluzhny from the post of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. how do you feel about this whole story that has unfolded, well, literally over the last two hours and that we've been witnessing, and is there any reason to wait. decree about resignation with the head, and if not today, then in some near future? well, i think that someday it will inevitably happen, there are no

permanent people in positions, everything changes, regarding the resignation of the meritorious person, and not only that, there were rumors, the last time somewhere, well, for about two weeks, there were rumors about possible rotations in... block, i.e. not only regarding the position of the commander of the armed forces, but it was also about some other leaders of the security forces, i understand that the option of a certain reassignment, transfer of people from one position to another, this is basically a traditional well-known scheme, about two days ago, if i am not mistaken, the traditional newsmaker mrs. bezugla published the version that there are three candidates for the position of commander of the armed forces, and there

were critical remarks on all three candidacies, and some commentators even drew attention to the fact that all this was not written in the traditional style of mrs. bezugla, a little yes, i would say politically technological, so there were some expectations, but you know what the paradox of the situation is: they can fire a diligent person, the tension is there, i as i understand it, i stayed, maybe because of the topic of mobilization, and maybe not only mobilization, i mean the draft law and everything that surrounds the process of mobilization, there are contradictions, there is most likely some kind of mutual mistrust , difficulties in personal relationships, and we don't know, but well... according to the experience of various presidents and not only presidents, printouts of conversations are always placed on the table of the first person, who is with whom, about what,

how they are talking and the like, there could have been, there could have been things that we don't know which ones could to cause such a reaction that, well, everything got, it is necessary to change, this could be, another thing from a rational point of view. dismissing the presidential team and personally for president zelenskyi is a huge political risk, it is simply obvious to create a political competitor for himself in the near term, this is one risk, the second risk may change the situation in the attitude to the possibility of presidential elections, so far the majority of ukrainians are against any -what kind of elections during the war, and what will happen next, if this situation? for sure, the opposition will bet on the fact that let's hold elections, without even thinking about whether it is possible to hold them, how to hold them, but that

will be the political bet. uh, well, in the end, yes , i understand, vitaly, i heard a little bit, yes, there may be a situation of tension, uncertainty in the relationship between part of the military and the political leadership, there is also a certain risk here, so from a rational point of view point of view cannot be dismissed, regarding the current situation, i do not rule it out, this is my assumption, especially since we have already seen something similar when they fired reznikov, the first attempt, and budanov also appeared there, before... as in the current rumors, that they could offer the hard worker himself to resign or some other alternative position, to which he could not agree, but this could already cause a wave of expectations or a rumor that everything is being changed, there is already a presidential decree, now they are sending a meritorious resignation, but it could simply be that he was offered some other option,

discharged. wrote in social networks that he was allegedly offered the position of ambassador there somewhere abroad, well, at least i read these sources in ukrainian, yes, i read it, well, i think that it is not the same, if, for example, here is an option that formally from the point of view of status could be relatively acceptable, although also problematic, for example, there offer the post of secretary of the national security council, well, at least it is more or less equivalent , conditionally, and the ambassador, well... we know this, the ambassador is always a political exile, a veil, a veil, a veil, yes, yes, this is more of a tolerant veil , yes, although for some it is such, you know, an honorable resignation can be, i i know of situations where, for example, the former chairman of the constitutional court was the ambassador to kazakhstan, well, others there, the former deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada, the ambassador was the ambassador in russia, in china, and so on, that is,

the former prosecutor general. switzerland is, you know, such an honorable pensioner , even though it is not yet a pension year, but in the case of meritorious persons, the situation is completely different, the context is different, even if he were an ambassador, it is a ready-made alternative political center, and the risk remains, but for the most useful for you see, there is still a purely psychological issue at work here, as i understand it, well, i heard about it even from anna mahler, the former deputy minister of defense, she kept telling me that this was her personal impression: military people have a completely different psychology , and they think differently, and epaulettes are for them, and this is a hard-working budanov, for them epaulettes are sacred, to give up epaulets, it ’s all like the end of life, it’s a completely different situation, so i think that yes, if they offered a hard-working the position of ambassador, he

did not accept it, and this already caused... a certain a chain reaction, but i suppose that it is important, they could, that is why i mentioned reznikov, about reznikov's resignation, they could offer budan a position, but budanov could also not agree, realizing that it would not be accepted and it would cause a critical reaction, i.e. here is the situation, i would say deadlocked, someone wants, perhaps, or offers the president to remove the tyrant, but such a cluck-cluck is too risky a combination, we will see how these events will develop, you mentioned that... maybe the opposition wants elections i, for example, doubt whether he will, i want, he will, if they send zaluzhnyi, it is logical, they bet on zaluzhnyi as an alternative political center and start a presidential campaign, this, it is almost unrealistic in the current conditions, but there is a problem , there is a problem in the parliament, this is what arachami is talking about, he is talking about the fact that if 17 servants go and compose deputy

mandates in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, then... there will be problems with the parliament, well, there will be no problems with the parliament, because it will be there anyway will remain 300 votes necessary for adoption of 2/3 of all decisions, but let's not rely on the majority, well, it is, but it does not mean that the parliament will be incompetent, or will it be incompetent, mr. oleksiu? hello, i have a question, am i to mr. oleksiy, to holobutsky, but i have not heard. yes, something was interrupted, i'm sorry, but the issue of the parliament's capacity to act, do we have a parliament , and not a structure in which some people gather to film each other's streams, that's how i see the current parliament, that tishchenko is being filmed honcharenko , honcharenko takes off tishchenko.