victory and, no matter what, we will have a christmas tree. yes, yes, we've already heard it somewhere, how important a christmas tree is for the new year and we remember how it all ended, we were kicking our heels for hours. i am sure it will be the same with these traitors. when our servicemen vacate the occupied territories, you will have a christmas tree, or rather, a christmas tree, and the usual prison, only. ukrainian, that's why we stand in line, donate to the armed forces and believe in the victory of ukraine, so that no traitor has a place on our holy land. it was a program collaborators and i are olena kononenko. if you have information about the kremlin sellers, write to us at this e-mail address or simply on facebook. together we will send all the traitors in pursuit of the russian ship. see you in a week on espresso. greetings,

good evening, my name is myroslava barchuk, this is a self-titled program, a joint project of ukrainian foam and the espresso tv channel. today we will talk about literature during the war, about what we read, about how the war actualizes ukrainian classics, about who... will write about this historical time in which we live, and we will talk a little about translation and literary awards. we will talk about all this with rostislav semkiv, my guest. rostyslav semkiv is a literary critic, a teacher at the kyiv-molyan academy and the director of the smallskyp publishing house. greetings rostislav. thank you for coming to us. so, i have to start, not with the good, but with the bad. ah-ah a few days

ago , a scandal erupted literally in ukrainian social networks with the maksym rylsky prize for 2023, we learned that that a few days ago the laureates were determined , and let me remind you, this is the oldest ukrainian translation award, and here you see a post by the state television and radio commission, which informs us about what has been determined: the laureates of the rylsky prize for the 23rd year, and the winners of this prizes, in particular dmytro drozdovskyi and andrew shepard, for the translation from ukrainian into english of the collection of works irpin my home, the authors of which are children. everything would be fine, but the public debate is that dmytro drozdovsky is a person who was caught plagiarizing

several times, the academic community knows about it, and now dmytro drozdovsky is receiving the rylsky prize. moreover, bohdan stasyuk, another translator, wrote on facebook about who andrew shepard is, who, together with drozdovsky, receives the rylsky prize. and it turned out that, among other things, the translator was andrew shepard. is the editor of the journal of the british-russian, british-russian society, east-west review. on the cover of the first issue for the past year of this publication, and yes, you can see a portrait of nikolai vtorov with children, on a faberge egg and a lily of the valley. so, this is it, this is what you see, these lily of the valleys, actually, this is a collection of a sanctioned russian oligarch. i don't want to moralize,

we are actually talking about literature and awards, and my first question, rossislav, is how should we treat such a story with this award, should we somehow react to it, or just wait for such state awards will go away together with the generation of people who represent them, well, this is a bad story, especially... especially since these are unpleasant connections, yes, of course , there are a lot of structures that, under the guise of, let's say, slavic studies in the world, actually promoted russian studies, actually promoted this myth about great russian literature, they still work in the world and even in leading universities that's an advantage the specialists

of slavists are actually russians, this is a consequence of imperial policy, it is clear that we have to fight against it, well, this is already an effect accordingly. yes, of course, somewhere it is easier for them to access both bonuses and resources in general, that is the story itself is bad, it is very good that there is this resonance, it is clear that the question needs to be asked in a broader sense, why the ukrainian community, especially a community in a state of war, should pay for it, yes, if it is a state award , there are, of course , radical views that , well, there should be no state premiums at all, but in any case, it should be limited, especially since, well , shevchenkovska, for example, may not remain there, and that’s enough, especially since, well,

many of them are compromised where it is compromised, where it is compromised, and very it's easy to tell if the premium is compromised or not, if someone has seen the book, or if she had one. us in general, what we pay for, here it makes sense to ask the question in a mercantile way, these are taxes, everyone pays taxes, everyone asks questions, here was a response from the film community, so with an appeal that there should not be these discussions about what the state cinema finances, which it finances films, because very often these are films that many people do not perceive, so some are comedic. serials in the middle of war and tragedy, and they offered this appeal offers the state budget state cinema budget transfer to the needs of the armed forces, and it is reasonable, well, all the more so, i say, if the award

has compromised itself, that is , the question should be asked, i think there should be some kind of general investigation, in which way such... laureates were determined, all the more so if there is a connection, well, with such a russian policy, because it is so accurate and the oligarch appears somewhere, it is definitely one of the means of promotion of this magazine, of the means of promotion of russian interest, now it turns out that we turn out that we for this , somehow, in some way, we also pay tangents to this, that is, we legitimize it, actually it contradicts our general with ours. the general setting for the cancellation of russian culture, for denial, forgetting, there are moratoriums, i don’t know, it can be discussed in different ways, but it is not necessary, so there should be a reaction and it is good that there is a resonance, here the same is also a story about

reputation as such, yes, because it's not just about this man, who is andrew shepard, who is there at the head of this magazine. of the russian british-russian society, but also about dmytro drozdovsky, about whom there was also a lot discussions, so bohdan tycholos, the director of the frank house, accused him of plagiarism, the institute of literature admitted that 64% of drozdovsky's work was plagiarized, and and and and parallel to this, the person continues to receive awards, that is, it turns out that there are some different parts of it.. communities are so culturally ukrainian , so are people, people without a reputation and people with a reputation, and these communities, these flowers, as if they do not intersect, but you said about the state cinema , so many people criticize maryna kuderchuk there , so much, but equally, this parallel

reality continues to exist here as well people with a reputation, people without a reputation, and these are two worlds that cannot, that cannot clearly reach an agreement, but cannot fight each other. when it comes to the institution of reputation, i begin to think about the lingering romanticism of the ukrainian community, because, well, if there are institutions of reputation, something like that exists, but it is something so amorphous and uncertain, that is, there must be clear structural solutions, yes, that is, someone should be sued, there is a discussion about plagiarism, it should be sued, that is. there is a law by which it must work, yes, there are mechanisms, but now there is another struggle for the introduction of suitable candidates, candidates who are actually responsible for

the ukrainian cultural fund, yes, that is, there are structures, it is necessary to use these provisions, which are approved, as a rule, by... it's good to just pay attention, try to act and take some steps to change it, because it won't change by itself, that is, the reputation can be ruined, but... people forget that in the end people don't have exactly the same problems, there should be organizational conclusions , oh so people with without reputation, they are so skilled mostly that it is very difficult for them purely formally, they are very bureaucratized people, by the way, i want to quote andrii bonder, another wonderful writer, translator, who wrote on facebook about this story, you know , why did everything happen like this, is meant from the award? for this, andrew shepard, because where there is no honor and conscience,

where there is a bureaucracy detached from reality, and flowery nihilism under the mask of a sovkov, a sovkov officialdom, the russian world is coming. and i'm sorry that i'm talking about this for so long, i promised you to start talking about what we read and how we perceive literature, but this is also relevant, yes, because everything gets very intense during war. i am starting to talk about literature, i will start a little with history, on january 22, on the day of catholicism, i noticed that we congratulate each other on the day of catholicism in the networks, and we write in our bubble that this is the day of catholicism, it is dedicated to that, therefore what happened 105 years ago , the zuneru uner united, the fourth universals and so on, i saw that i thought that this was a symptom of what it means the nation... there was a deprivation of this knowledge, if we tell each other about it, yes, because

americans do not congratulate each other with thanksgiving day there or from there independent day what, but you know there july 4, 76, 1776 happened such and such, and just as surely in literature, and just as certainly in literature, that we, that we now reread the classics and say oh so it was, that's exactly what it was about, eh what? what are the authors now, apart from, say, the obvious ones there, say, tiger catchers crimson or barka with the yellow prince, which are new for you personally opened up during this war, well actually opened up, actually authors started opening up a long time ago, like in the 90s, but they didn't have that resonance, yes, that is, now they have a wider resonance. the resonance that it had, to which it was accessible, the academic community, somewhere, the educational community, it

was somewhere in such a shadow for a long time, i remember very well what attitude there was to bagryany back there 10 years ago, that is, there was quite a lot skeptics who said that he is so public, and he talks all the time politics and about politics, so that is, it may not and is not so good. the hetsiman garden was written there, these are political works, and now they are timely, they are emphasized, because they are, in fact, about such a rather direct confrontation there with the empire with the russian russian peace, and it is good that these texts get such an impulse, the important text that returned somewhere now was the text, well, i... beyond the limits of pain by romanuyansky, he wrote it in the 21st

year, 1921, he was just a combatant, he survived the war, the first world war, captivity, then the return from captivity and this is one of the earliest such texts about the first world war in general in european literature, one of the first, but for a long time they knew, experts there knew that such a work existed, but it remained so unknown for a long time. because there are a number of reasons, after all, he fought as part of the austrian army, he wanted to get into the legion of sich riflemen, but he did not get in, he fought as part of the austrian army, but against the russian army, accordingly, he was not perceived in the union either, so well, he is such a very serious anti-war the work is against the war, against those who start the war, everything is very clearly put in its place there, now it has... read, it was republished, it went away, and here it

is, this is one of those texts, which is very difficult, you need to prepare for reading it, but you must read it in school, well, if not read textually, then at least remember, but in the end read it, it is not very long, and it is a very important text, of course, - it is illuminated differently now, the authors of the executed revival are perceived in a completely different way, that is, now because of the fact that the tragedy has become, unfortunately, now close, and we really see that they are dying, that is, dying... authors, writers are dying, and again and again, and many people have friends, relatives who died, that is, death has happened, unfortunately, closer, and that is why this tragedy, because it is a tragedy , and i do not know if there is any other literature where so many writers would be shot in one day, who would be shot, as on the third

of november, there the day before, the day after 37- th year, this... was perceived somehow so slightly abstractly, it is somewhere so far away, it happened a long time ago, now this revaluation is going on and everyone is beginning to realize that on the one hand , well, when the gravedigger was shot, he was 34 or something like that, that is, it is very little, on the other hand, he managed to write some short prose during these 34 years and two very good novels, that is, it took place in such a short time, as well... there was a wave and others, among which there were simply geniuses, like there, for example, mykola kulish, a playwright, and this is the realization that we had such cool authors, and then they are forced were silenced, or, for example, zinoida tulup, this is the first such a big one, because before her

, too, several women wrote on historical topics, but she has such a first known, serious historical ... novel of a poacher , and she published it there in 1936-1937, she was immediately arrested and sent away. she spent something like 10 or 15 years in exile in siberia, and she returned, and she no longer wrote like that, even at a time when in europe , a decade before that, a norwegian woman writer was awarded the nobel prize prize for a historical novel in our country. are sent, so on the hill, that is, as in our union, this is not our state, that is, it is a feeling on the one hand of a tragedy, on the other hand a feeling of the loss of an entire area of ​​literature, but this results in a strong desire to get acquainted with

what was actually done , because after all , a lot was done, and this applies to... the whole literature in general, but also individual personnel, here you can talk about everyone, somewhere, everyone separately, and there are really a lot of names that did not make it to much, but did make it to something, and this results in such a very serious interest in the classics, re-evaluation, here it is also imposed that the school has been moving according to such postra's inertia for a long time.

the kaidash family and this is a story about quarrels in the village. let's put it this way, now the series has emphasized it, this is good for this text, but it is necessary to show that nechuy levitskyi has other works, well, above all, clouds, on the one hand , very clearly, well, such a text very clearly shows the difference, that's ukrainian culture for you , this is russian culture, that is, he then saw this civilizational divide that we have now, which we are beginning to realize, many is beginning to realize only now, it is in the clouds, and on the other hand it is... the kyiv text is about the city, it is about city habits, daily life, way of life, that is, it is important to show that literature was not so weak and monotonous as it was shown in soviet times, it is clear why, well, and with a certain inertia for a long time later, the earth was also read for a long time by kobylyanska, again

, the village, the conflict over the land, now it is good, the program has changed a little, now they are reading waltz melancholic. the text is emancipatory, the text is, again, urban, urbanistic, where there is more to it to think, although there is also something to think about in the earth, and this is also a good text, it’s just that it was simplified a lot, everything was always simplified to such a bare social relationship of some kind, so it needs to be reconsidered, it’s being reconsidered, and now that’s why there is such an interest in the classics, don’t you think , what... they said that a new national myth is being created, yes, it is being formed, well, in fact , the national myth of ukraine has already been formed, what kind of myth is this? and whether a new canon of literature is created in the same way, whether it will affect literature in the same way, whether it, or these things are not

related, here first of all it should be noted that a myth, again, there was such a soviet statement, a myth as a distortion of reality, as something that opposes science, there are some dark ideas, myth, mythology - this, a sacred sacred story about... . heroes , and since we now have heroes , a new mythology is being created in us, and of course, its result will be the emergence of an epic, that is , an epic layer will appear in ukrainian literature, next to the novel, it does not mean that novels will stop being written, but he already is created, you can quote songs there, here poetry, song, they react faster. and from them, accordingly, an epic is composed, such an epic of the sich shooters, again there are many songs, these are also epic such ballads and marches and

requiems, and humorous songs, that is , this is such a wide layer, here is a part of them, these are epic about shooters who are fighting for the freedom of ukraine, and we now have absolutely. mythological figures, yes, a mythological figure, i say positively, it is like there and hercules, theseus, but in the same way even now there are already figures that acquire signs of such legend, maybe if someone does not like the word myth, you can talk about legend, so there are legendary figures, there are cyborgs, there are the heavenly hundred, cyborgs, there is the ghost of kyiv, yes, of course, there are even some legendary figures who have a little. humorous such a comic decoration, but they still work as legendary figures, for example, pes patron, that’s all, it’s a legendary creature, and well, a hero, but somewhere

it makes you smile, but there are also quite serious ones, or there is an azovstal, that is, yes, that is , it is very important that this appears, because it means that the feat will not be leveled, he will not be forgotten, and you wrote in your wonderful book about... ukrainian literature, which i will ask you about separately, but you wrote about the time of the titans, you have such a whole section called the time of the titans, about this great shift, great energy in literature after the first world war, when these great novelists appeared, yes, starting with joyce, thomas mann, kavka and all the rest. er, how do you, how do you imagine our literature, our culture, after such an exsanguination that we have now, or have

we, ah, do we have a chance for the time of the titans, i think so, i think it's a sad, but pattern, er, after great upheavals, er, the time of great literature comes, er, it's not because that, well, actually, this is a problem, that this happens, but this happens in principle always, because literature is about experience, and war is a very extreme and very powerful experience, and now there is a lot of military, related with the war of experience, it is first of all, of course, the experience of those who are in direct confrontation. experience of soldiers, experience there trenches, trenches, but this experience of volunteers , this is also the experience of refugees,

migration, this is the experience of occupation, this, that is, it is a lot, this is the experience of being in storage, so many different moments that will be discussed, well, and on the other hand, actually, a lot of people are starting to write, there are... there are several writing courses, there are courses, by the way, specifically for veterans, the voice of war at internews, there is the summer of the world, there is a whole series of writing courses, and they have a lot of listeners now , that is, people want to pass on this experience, they don't want to sign out, that's it therapeutic, on the one hand, say the collection voice of war, the first anthology can be found online. uh, people want to write out, to spill this experience, that's why uh, there are new writers and writers, uh,

they are already being written about, and there are those who, having gone to the front, were already bad people, well, good, or not bad, and writers, poets , or even quite titled, here, for example, dmytro lazudin, he is now on the short list of the shevchenko prize, by the way, there are prizes that adequately determine although there are also scandals around them, well, there are always scandals around, but... it’s just a question of trust or distrust of those who get there, yes, that is, there is oleksandr mehet in the publicist, then there is taryn chornogus, well, they wrote before that, and yaryna chornogus, and lazutkini, artem cheh, arkiyan kamysh, chapai, well, there was a whole series of pavlomats, you can list them, here is

the poet elizaveta zharikova. it is literally the first, well, the collection was published before the war, there is igor mitrov, but there are also those that began in wartime, actually under the influence of war experiences, about who were less heard or not heard, here, like valery puzik, there, let’s say, martin brest, or oleksiy paykin, that is, them, or there vitaliy zapeka, they started writing already after the beginning, after the beginning, but well, even after the 14th. yes, that is, the war was already going on, and they began to appear, here is a kitten, by the way, a look at the war through the eyes of a dog, here is vitaliy constipation, he appeared somewhere in the 16th or 15th year, and he is now already has several books, that is, in fact , there are many new authors and authors, may they all return from the war unscathed, and they will write, eh, and it will be such a flash as after the first one.

about the moral right to write, i will now ask the following question, it is not so simple, the editor will probably show a screenshot of the article, the actual interview that hanna ulyura took with the beautiful poetess natalka bilotserkivets, and here natalka bilotserkivets says: such and such an opinion, i am interested to hear your, your analysis of this. natalka bilotserkivets writes: i recently read an interesting opinion that the best works about war will be written by those who did not fight directly. i even admit that the best works about our war, primarily cinema and prose, can be created even by non -ukrainians and not in ukraine. for those who have been on the battlefield, it can be excruciatingly difficult to walk away.

from the inevitable perception on the battlefield of only black and white, absolute evil and unerring good, so single, short black-and-white works are possible works of a high level, but not full-scale, not only in the sense of size, in the sense of the complexity of plots and characters. i was very impressed by this thought, since it is very subtle, what do you think? well, i really like the poetry of natalka belotserkivets, she is alone of the best female poets, at the end of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st century, but i do not agree here, even if we think about the same first world war and such iconic works that are known to everyone, there is remarque, hemingway, yvlinvo, okay, hasyk in another tonality, ernst jünger, well, that is, there is a whole set of these texts, which

are known more, they are all combatants. that is, obviously someone wrote about the war from afar, so these works appeared somewhere, but we know about the war, first of all the works of combatants, of course, this does not mean that such cannot appear works, and we understand, well, for example, we understand that, therefore, the waveman did not shoot his mother, but he wrote it imagining it, yes, that is, until... well, this happens in literature, the experience can be imagined and it will be a strong text, we also know that kotsyubynskyi came to the curve for a week, looked and wrote the best text about the carpathians so far, well, many of the carpathian authors may not agree, but okay, it turned out like this, that is, he did not have much experience of the carpathians, he got there twice.