that leaving ukraine without the help of the united states is actually helping putin win. the secretary of the treasury of the united states of america said that the inaction of the congress will give victory to putin. well, there are no, you know, any such conditional constructions, but if there weren’t, well, it’s all clear, we need help, ukraine can’t do without it, but we believe together, we’re moving forward, thank you for being with us, it was velikiy ter , then verdyk, serhiy mrudenko, let's watch together. good evening mez of ukraine. glory to ukraine. this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko. i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. looking for a replacement. the media are writing

about the imminent resignation of zaluzhnyi, what is the threat of rotating the head of the armed forces in the midst of a war? more guns, more ammo. the european union is looking for ways to support ukraine while american aid is on hold. scandals surrounding the ministry of defense, the billion-dollar equipment of the hrynkevichs and the lviv arsenal, how to prevent theft in the war? about. over the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with our guests , people's deputy of ukraine iryna gerashchenko, military expert mykhailo samos, and volunteer adviser to the minister of defense of ukraine dana yarova. in the second part of our program, which will start in exactly one hour. we will have political experts, ihor reiterovych, viktor shlinchak and viktor boberenko. however, before starting our big conversation, look at... until the return

of 207 defenders of ukraine from russian captivity, among the released defenders mariupol, kherson and fighters from zmiyny island. the first shots of the heroes' return to their native land. let's see. glory to ukraine.

we will give our soul and body for our freedom, and it will show that we are cossack brothers, moving video, glory to ukrainian heroes. friends,

for those of you who are watching us live on youtube and facebook right now, please like this video, make sure to do it, and follow our social media pages, besides, we 're doing a poll during this broadcast, today we ask you about whether it is necessary to block dodgers accounts and deprive them of the right to drive a car, as provided for by the government bill, which will soon be adopted by the verkhovna rada of ukraine'. dates in the session hall. if you're watching us on youtube, it's pretty simple, yes, no, two functions, two buttons, if you want to leave a comment, or have your own personal opinion , please write below this video. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you believe that it is necessary to block the accounts of slanderers and deprive them of driving a car (0800-211-381), no (0800-211-380). all

calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we have our first guest on call, she is a people's deputy of ukraine. from the european solidarity faction iryna gerashchenko. mrs. irina, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening to all viewers of spresso. ms. iryna, over the past three days, incredible informational things have been happening around zaluzhnyi, the chief commissar of the armed forces of ukraine, information appeared that zelenskyi wants to remove him, they even wrote that there is a resignation decree. then it was refutations, then there were accusations by bloggers and journalists that they allegedly spread the wrong information, but during this day we see how the international media, the financial times and the economist wrote about the fact that they confirmed that the conversation with zelenskyi took place, and

that there is the possibility or that there is a prospect that this case will continue, it is meant that zelenskyi will still ... leave it and it will happen literally in some conceivable perspective, can we consider this the information that appears in the international media is already a fait accompli, what will it be? first of all, you really started your program with such an emotional video, and for me it was personal, especially emotional, because the liberation of every ukrainian hero is a big job, it's a great joy. for the family and for all of us, and i sincerely congratulate the 207 families who heard the call today, or finally met their loved one, husband, lover, father, god forbid all the heroes come back, and this video, it very rightly reminds that the hot phase of the war is going on

, things are extremely difficult at the front, and it seems to me that any action by the authorities today, which is related to personnel decisions, whether it is in teluch, especially when we... we are talking about the military leadership, must answer the question, whether it will be better for victory, this is how it should be approached, it seems to me, to any question, this is the first, the second, i did not comment on everything that happened on monday, and now i do not have information, and none of us, who was not, was not present at these conversations, what is actually happening at banking, but... what is really in full swing today, when such difficult discussions are taking place in the united states regarding aid to ukraine. the european union will hold a summit on unlocking 50 billion euros tomorrow. the world media do not publish columns about

ukrainian heroes, about liberation, about the difficult situation around avdiyivka or in the kupinsky direction, but about squabbles, quarrels, showdowns - this is absolutely terrible. and obviously. that what today and the bbc, and as you rightly pointed out, and the new york times, and the financial times, and zaeconomiz came out with columns about the fact that such a personnel decision was made, and the basis is not so much military, questions or problems, or a different view of these military problems, although civilians cannot have a view of military strategies, we are not experts in this, there can only be trust. or mistrust, all this is very much, in fact, it seems to me that it deepens the crisis, makes certain things inevitable, and in this context, it seems to me that it would be very important for president zelensky to finally find time in two years to meet with leaders of the parliamentary factions, ah

, talked frankly and honestly, how we see together this difficult year, which is also difficult internally, taking into account economic challenges, mobilization, what should be our joint work externally, why he makes certain decisions, everything this is extremely important, and the last thing, i want to point out the communication failures of the authorities, when official information in the style of kvn appears from the ministry of defense, we confirm, it is all false, it is absolutely not funny, and it really causes mistrust of journalists and rejection when for the first time in two years. war , the press secretary of the president , whom everyone has already forgotten, finally appears in public and also gives one short sentence, it does not add credibility, and you know, i want to say that today several international media called me with a request to give a comment on the situation with zaluzhny, i honestly

refuse, because i am not informed in this matter, and the least i want now is to harm everything that... is happening in this such a delicate topic, and here i can only repeat the position of the fifth president poroshenko who rightly noted that if someone is screwing president zelensky about such a resignation, then it is worth resigning the people around him, who are creating this atmosphere of such hatred, of undermining trust in everyone, because you know, we in the opposition very clearly feel this atmosphere of hatred of the authorities for everyone , who is not in power, the journalists are bad , the parliament is bad, the position is bad, the military is also bad, well, this is not normal, because now is the time to collect stones, i

want our viewers to understand what we are talking about, i will quote an excerpt from a publication in the times , or rather in the economist, that what the british publication writes that president zelensky has not yet signed the decree on the resignation of zaluzhnyi, but such a development is still possible, i quote the british: the release of one of the most popular figures in ukraine was very controversial and became a turning point in ukraine's conflict with russia. so far, mr. zelensky has not announced the replacement of the general, but this does not mean that general zaluzhny is not in danger. this may simply be because his replacement has yet to be identified. well, and the the times, already mentioned by me, writes with reference to its own sources that the commander of the ground forces, oleksandr syrskyi, and the head of the gur of the ministry of defense of ukraine, kyrylo budanov , rejected zelenskyi's offer to assume the post of commander-in-chief of the armed forces, instead of valery zaluzhnyi. so zelensky was forced to cancel his decision under pressure from high-ranking officials and international

experts. well, actually, we will follow the development of this one. sergey, i will add one more remark, you read the correct quotes, but there are more in the articles. and there is much worse quotes that the reason for the possible release is the popularity of zaluzhnyi, the fact that he has such, as if, the favor of ukrainians today is greater than president zelenskyi, and this is much more dangerous. when western partners and western media, in the conditions of war in ukraine , insinuate that politics, ratings, popularity, and sympathy come to the forefront for someone in the bank, and not one question, how best to win the war, with which strategies, this is very bad, beyond any doubt, and of course mobilization is mentioned in this story. they speak that the most important thing, the main conflict that can be between zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi is

the question of mobilization, because we saw this public discussion in absentia between zaluzhnyi and zelenskyi, when zelenskyi said that the military wants to mobilize 500,000 in the 24th year citizens, zaluzhnyi said that this is not a one-time thing, that it is still necessary to attract more people to the army, because there is a war and absolutely everything is clear. the law on mobilization, the next option, is to be considered again by the verkhovna rada of ukraine on february 6, and as i understand it, it has not yet the conclusion of the specialized committee, whether it is suitable or not, but the main theses of this draft law have already been published in zmi, and you too, well, you have seen these main points, to what extent what the government proposes again differs from what has already happened, and i read in... yesterday, the text of the law that came in, the draft law, or rather, that came in from the government, certain comments were taken into account,

in particular the comments of our political force, we insisted, for example, on the need to increase the leave for those released from captivity, so you see how today we are talking about it we say this because according to the current legislation , servicemen who have been released from captivity must return to their homeland after a short medical rehabilitation there. inspection to return to their units, although often these people have complex injuries after torture and so on, they will be given another 90 days of additional leave, it is also important, and we have been constantly emphasizing this for two years, that the mobilized must undergo very professional , high-quality training training, and now these three months of training are being laid there so that people are not immediately released to the battlefield without one corresponding preparations, at the same time, this draft law contains those norms that the authorities

, you know, so clearly denied until yesterday, for example, the authorities denied, this is not the opposition, the authorities said through the mouths of ministers and representatives of the president's office that there would be none , for example, an online summons, in this law, the draft law very clearly records not only the creation of an electronic cabinet, but the possibility of summonses... online, if we talk about more draconian points that caused objections not only from the public, deputies, but also completely. affairs of a person, when they were going to take away property and block accounts there without a trial and investigation, and the possibility of taking away cars there, if a person evades service in the armed forces, well, that is, evades accountability, and now in this draft law there is a provision that such actions can take place after

a court decision, to which the tsc will have the right to apply, these are debatable norms, because also... we are definitely talking about the restriction of rights, and here it is already not recorded there that only this is during martial law, a debatable norm regarding the attachment to everyone has a military ticket consular services, this is also essentially such a limitation of the rights of ukrainian citizens abroad, and the key political story now, according to the constitution of ukraine, the commander-in-chief is responsible for mobilization. it is very surprising that president zelenskyi... who does not submit a bill on his vision of how he sees mobilization, we have a number of laws on military topics, in particular, by the way, on lowering the age of mobilization from 27 to 25, which were voted by the parliament, but have not been signed by the president for several months, this draft law again lays down the following norms, so tell me how the parliament should

consider a draft law, which contains norms that have not already been signed by the president, when the president publicly says: that there is no need for 5,000 mobilized people, we will beat spears, discuss, introduce amendments, treat the draft bill very responsibly, and then the president simply won't sign it, and that's why our position is: we're waiting for the bill from the president, we believe that the president should state his position, it's wrong that he's refusing to talk about such an important topic, a key topic this year, it can't be changed transfer to the government, because the government does not own the whole scale. information that is discussed at a rate that is available only to the commander-in-chief and the commander-in-chief, and that is why we believe that this is also one of the topics on which there should be a meeting of president zelenskyi with representatives of the factions in order to hear the position of the supreme commander-in-chief, or we this year we are moving to defense, how will these fortifications be built, how will

the economy be provided, what will be the load on the engineering troops, well that is very... many questions to which i would like to receive complex, professional answers, so that the law is not empty, so that it is perceived by society as a fair law. and the last, i would point out, the main negative of this law, there is a seemingly fixed norm that service in the army after mobilization will last 36 months, this is a lot, if we are talking about bakhmut or avdiivka, imagine 36 months near avdiivka, but at the same time there is no such... clear fixation even 36 months, and it is said that it will be 36 months plus 1 month after the relevant decision, there are stakes or something, that is, it can last forever, and i think that this norm is key for our political power, because we realize what a burden it is on the military, who

have been on the hottest front lines for two years , as they need rotation and demobilization. one more short question, regarding the assistance of the congress of the united states of america, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg in washington discussed further support for ukraine with the leadership of the congress, and the director of the cia william burns stated that it is strategically important for the united states of america to continue supporting ukraine against the backdrop of russian aggression, quoting william burns, who in an interview said literally the following: maintaining the flow of weapons from... will strengthen ukraine's position if there is an opportunity for serious negotiations. this gives a chance to ensure a long-term victory for ukraine and a strategic loss for russia. ukraine could protect its sovereignty and recover, while russia would have to bear the constant costs of putin's stupidity. for for the united states to withdraw from the conflict at this crucial moment and stop supporting

ukraine would be an own goal of historic proportions. mrs. irina. won't there be this own goal, which the director of the ciru, william bertz, is talking about, because we see the development of events in the united states of america, well , it just pushes us to not even the tenth position, probably there to the 20th or 30th, because there is texas, there is trump, there are still some internal problems in the united states of america, and indeed the situation with the vote in congress regarding the provision of ukraine and... the $61 billion in military aid we need is now suspended primarily because of the start of the actual election campaign in the united states and me. it seems that here we need to intensify our efforts to work with the congress, with the senate, at this time they block the inter-parliamentary activities of the deputies, we

communicate a lot online, because there is no other opportunity with our partners from the parliaments of the european union countries, and you know, this is very positive and so poignant when our real allies are now also working with their own... in the united states in order to convey to them this position of the criticality of this aid for ukraine. indeed, it seems to me that we need all of our allies here now to get this signal to the united states. and allow me one more remark, you know, today, another event happened, i personally really expected it, the decision of the un international court in gaza, this is the first such big decision regarding the financing of russian terrorism. federation of lawsuits was filed in 17th year, it was being prepared since 15th year, and i it related to mh17, it seems, what else the world and the court need evidence

to realize who was behind this terrible crime, who sponsored this terrorism, at the same time, the court's decision is incomplete, only partially, the court in gaz recognized the position of ukraine and ours, our lawsuit supported a share. and this is also a very alarming signal that indicates the need to strengthen our advocacy, strengthen our legal position, our evidence base, this is very serious, unfortunately, russia has been preparing for war for a long time, and it is using all its capabilities on all fronts, including including, well, we are now seeing hybrid methods as well in order to weaken ukraine, and this also causes... concern. thank you, mrs. iryna, for participating in our program. it was iryna gerashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we work live on the

espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live, there. please don't hesitate, like this video so that it can be trended on youtube and facebook. well, take part in our voting. today we are asking you about whether it is necessary to block the accounts of petitioners and get rid of the right to drive a car, because these norms are laid down in the new bill on mobilization, or at least in the new old one, as, if you can say so, which will be considered by the verkhovna rada of ukraine next week. shmyhal's government has prepared another draft law on mobilization, we will talk in more detail about what norms there are in our second studio, which will start in literally 40 minutes, and now... we friends are in touch with kateryna galko, who is located in kyiv and she came to the event today

united states deputy secretary of state for political affairs victoria nuland is here. katerina, please tell me what the results of victoria nuland are, because she is such an important and powerful figure in politics. ukrainian politics, how was her visit, what did she say about the situation in ukraine, and most importantly, when will the congress of the united states of america restore funding for ukraine and the needs of the armed forces of ukraine? greetings sergey, greetings to the viewers of spressa tv channel, so in fact, this is the most important question, the answer to which we still do not know received, mrs. victoria nulan's speech was quite brief, however, she managed to mention all the main aspects of her visit, in particular she said that it is important for her to come to ukraine in winter, when it is especially difficult for us, i should note that she came

to ukraine and last year, and was also here 10 years ago during the events on the maidan during the revolution of dignity, we know that today she had meetings with representatives of the ukrainian authorities, she also said that she came to the rehabilitation center in which they invested funds... she managed to communicate with the boys and girls who defend our front, she said that they really admire her, who admire all americans, she said that she is glad, glad to note that america is still helping ukraine, trying to this year, we managed to return almost half of the territories occupied by russia, we managed to restore world exports, we managed to restrain ours. however, this is the main question, when will the congress approve aid package to ukraine, of course, representatives of the ukrainian media asked her this question, let's hear her answer.

americans understand and admire the miracle ukraine has already achieved in defending itself against such horrific russian aggression, and we also understand what happens if you can't just survive, but thrive. so, i am absolutely sure that this understanding will be indicated in the decision of the congress on the proposal of president biden. ms. victoria also noted that they will try to continue to support our defense sector, ready to invest in the development of our military industry, are also ready to develop their military-industrial complex in order to help ukraine, in particular, she mentioned the small-diameter ground-launched bombs that are already on their way to ukraine. actually, this is all the information we heard today, all that i

know at the moment, so i will pass it on to sergey. thank you, kateryna, it was kateryna galko, our correspondent, who was today at a meeting with victoria nuland, the deputy secretary of state of the united states of america, who is visiting kyiv. next, we have of communications mykhailo samus, military expert, expert of the army, conversion and disarmament research center. mr. mykhailo, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i congratulate you. mr. mykhailo, well, maybe it’s flying... a question about the merits, and i don’t want to discuss the political aspect of the issue of what is happening with the military command and the supreme military command in ukraine, but still these discussions, which are held in public discussions about who will be the next commander-in-chief or whether he will remain in office or not, they are on the front pages of the world's media, that is, all british media. american

newspapers came out with this report, with their insiders, what was happening there, how does it affect the situation and atmosphere of the ukrainian army, and most importantly, how can it affect the course of the russian-ukrainian war? well, i would like to point out that in fact the primary issue in this situation is not personnel, that is, personnel, and in fact we are speaking for... about the fate of the ukrainian nation, and not about the fate of individual generals or even individual politicians, therefore it is still necessary to put aside emotions, especially regarding specific individuals, and think that we need this year, this year ukraine should not go on the strategic defense, as some politicians, westerners, and some media advise us, obviously calculating that at our expense it will be possible to sign some

minsk ones again. agreement and then calmly return to business with russia, because advising us to sit on the defensive for a whole year so that russia accumulates more resources and forms an offensive potential to launch a large-scale offensive in the 25th year is very kind advice, but i think that it is clearly not to our advantage, but the main thing is how we can succeed in the 24th year, the turning point in this war is obvious. and general zaluzhnyi himself wrote in his article that in 22, in november, this was the first article that came out at that time regarding the plans for the 23rd year, he spoke then about the center of gravity, according to the definition of the clause, this is still in this war, and he defined this center of gravity as crimea, that is, it is obvious that the turning point in this war will come when ukraine starts an operation with deoccupation of crimea, you can

sit without this operation. for several years in strategic defense , we can talk about this, but the key change will not happen, therefore the question is not in personnel issues, but the question is how we will be able to solve the issue of the turning point of the war in the 24th year, actually carry out the beginning of the deoccupation of crimea, this is the key question, and when we look at , let's say this situation like this, then... the question of personnel, it disappears, so the main question here is who will be able to carry out such an operation that will be able to turn this war, if it can general zaluzhny, he can do it if president zelenskyy thinks that other personnel are needed to decide the fate of the ukrainian nation in this war, i think it can be done, because in reality, despite the fact that there are really emotions.