after the bbc news release , political experts ihor reiterovych, viktor boberenko and viktor shlinchak will be on our air. let's talk about the specter of the parliamentary crisis, about what is happening in the military leadership and in the civilian leadership and between them. in short , it will be interesting, stay with us, we will meet in 15 minutes. whether ukrainian refugees who are currently in poland will be released abroad, whether poland can reduce or even cancel aid to ukrainians, we will discuss together in today's edition of bbc ukraine, i'm olga polamaryuk a million ukrainians have found refuge from the war in poland, but everything can happen within a month, because the polish authorities have not yet

approved the plan for the stay of ukrainian refugees for the next year, and as a result, people may remain without payment, most importantly - without the possibility of leaving. from the first days of the full-scale war, poland became a refuge for millions of ukrainians. in march 2022, the polish authorities granted special status to ukrainians fleeing the war with... with russia, they were effectively equalized in rights with eu citizens. ukrainians have access to education, medicine, child support is paid, free polish language courses are organized. according to the data, almost 12.5 million ukrainian citizens crossed the ukrainian-polish border during the year and a half of the war. in general, about 6 million people live abroad, of which about a million ukrainians currently live in poland.

these are not refugees, they are our guests, so in may 2022, said president andrzej duda. however , as of march 4, ukrainians in poland may lose the right to stay in the country, as well as benefits. why? because it ends in the spring validity of the pesel permit. this is a document that guarantees the basic rights of ukrainian refugees in poland. that is, in fact, there is one month left until the end of the effective protection. experts say, most likely. the status will be extended, however, under what conditions and should ukrainians be worried now, considering that there is not much time left, but last year the polish government thought about renewing the document in advance, moreover, the new prime minister donald tusk in his first in his official speech , he spoke about ukraine and that poland would help ukraine, as much as needed. and in ukraine. i can no longer listen to some politicians saying that they are tired of ukraine. i

want to say that the task of the polish government is to firmly demand full determination in helping ukraine, and i will do it from the first day: only a united measure can help ukraine win in the struggle for democratic values. so, the polish government is deciding right now what to do with ukrainians, how their conditions of stay in poland can change , we are talking about what can change by my colleague, bbc correspondent diana. who lives and works in warsaw, now in our studio , colleague, i congratulate you, let's start with what benefits ukrainians in poland currently have, and how important are they, is it really possible to live without them? first of all, it is the most important thing that ukrainians in poland can work, and it does not depend on where you live, children go to school, to kindergartens, and there is access to medicine, and they also receive money, the money is small, it is currently... about 800,800 zlotys is approximately

700 hryvnias, and if these payments are suddenly reduced, it will be possible to live without it, will it hit the family budget, it will hit, especially those people who have not very high incomes, and also several tens of thousands of ukrainians receive housing assistance, and these are mostly such vulnerable groups of the population, and maybe also also it is for them in... according to the conditions in which they will live, yes, but is there any understanding at all of what can change, in general, do we know at the moment, yes, because only a month actually remains, there are such previous statements that the status will continue, that is, ukrainians will not be expelled from poland , but several conditions may change, first of all they say that ukrainians should not receive payments on par with poles, this should not happen, and perhaps this will be one of the main changes, and the second is

related to leaving poland, that is, currently ukrainians can safely enter and leave poland, and this status remains, but only if they can. it can have a lot of influence on ukrainians, because what makes asylum in poland so attractive now? people run away from war, but they can return home, solve some cases, visit relatives, this is such a feeling of being close to home, and every day 20 thousand ukrainians cross the polish border. yes, some people use poland as a hub, they go from other countries, but at the same time , many ukrainians, refugees, go from poland back to ukraine, that is, if there is a ban. to leave, then many can make a decision for themselves, then what to do, maybe then return to ukraine, or not? yes, that is, there are a lot of questions now, you personally also go to ukraine from time to time, do you already have an understanding of how it can affect

your life? it is very difficult, i was recently in kyiv in december, i just got off the train when the shelling started, every day i think about returning home, and then when i come to visit... my relatives and the shelling starts, i once is very scary, and this decision , i doubt myself all the time, that's why i don't know, i really want to return, i miss everyone, but whether i will do it, i don't know at the moment, thank you diana, diana koryshko, bbc ukraine correspondent, was with us, so, as we can see, there are actually a lot of questions now, and whether there is at least an approximate understanding, and what to do next, we are talking about it with an expert from the center for research on social changes in human mobility. at the leon kozminsky academy, ivanna kylyushyk, joins us from warsaw, i congratulate you, after almost two years of war, ukrainians have already settled in poland, so we know that children go to school, someone found a job, someone opened their own business, obviously people they counted on support to

be able to stay in the country, at least until the end of the war, so exactly why is the polish government delaying, congratulations olga, well... first of all , i would like to draw attention to the fact that this status of temporary shelter is regulated by a special directive of the european union on temporary shelter, and in fact, which one too, actually from due to the fact that the war continues, changes are being made to it as well, and actually the last changes were made last october, actually according to these changes, this temporary shelter, the status is temporary. asylum was extended for another year until march 4, 2025, and then member states the european union, on the basis of this directive, is already implementing changes to the domestic legislation, which was adopted after the escalation of the war. in poland, this is also

the law of april 12, 2022 on assistance to citizens of ukraine in connection with the armed conflict on the territory of ukraine, which is already at the national level. this stay, and also regulates a lot of other aspects, why is it postponed after october, since from the end of october until now, no changes have been implemented at the national level, well, first of all for the reason that in october in elections were held in poland, and this is the main reason, because the government changed, and it was such a difficult time. because we have seen the government change twice, that is precisely because of such internal problems, this modernization has not yet taken place, but these changes will be carried out in the near future, yes, that is, as far as i understand, you are so positive, but let's simulate

the situation, march 4 is not so far away, in fact there is a month left, do you think the polish authorities will make it? i am actually positive, because it is regulated by the directive of the european union, and so i am sure that these changes will be implemented, this situation is definitely not good, because my research also shows that such uncertainty about the future, well, it simply negatively affects all aspects of the life of ukrainians in poland, yes, that 's why that you don't understand whether you can stay, whether you can return, whether you should work... develop in the labor market, or make some other decisions, but in poland we have already witnessed precisely such situations, when various measures were implemented in a short time norms, which regulate the stay of foreigners, because in fact this crisis situation

has been going on since the beginning of the pandemic, and it has gone from a pandemic state, actually to a refugee crisis situation, so... this is how it will be conducted, i think it will be in time, yes , that's understandable, ivan, but we just talked with my colleague, and we discussed what is most interesting now, or really. they are talking about the ban on leaving poland it will not be possible, yes, in fact, there are currently discussions that the law in force of this law, yes, will be extended until september only, and during this time work will continue on the implementation of changes to this law, why actually, because so far in poland... not even a budget has been approved, and this law not only regulates such different grounds of stay,

as well as various rights of refugees, this law also regulates a number of other important issues, for example , on additional financing of local self-government, which actually leads and receives these centers of her residence, which are inhabited by approx. 40,000 more ukrainians who still cannot find a job or housing, so a number of changes will be implemented that regulate various issues, but there are also talks about implementing changes regarding rights, the government also clearly stated that it will consult on all changes with local self-government, and most importantly with public organizations that support refugee immigrants in poland. uh , i'm sure the curfew won't be

imposed, because there's a lot of awareness reasons for departure, yes, this departure is also limited, because you can leave for up to 30 days, if longer, then yes, this status is lost, but you can stay in ukraine for 30 days, and this is provided for by the fact that there are various reasons, we are witnesses of that , that women go to the funeral of their husbands who died in... defending ukraine, so clearly such a ban will not be introduced, maybe there will be some other changes, but it is difficult to talk about them yet, because there will still be consultations, so we will follow we are also depending on the situation, ivanno, thank you, ivanna kylyushyk, an expert at the center for social change and human mobility research at the leon kozminsky academy, was in touch with us, thank you, and what do you think about... before the program, my colleagues talked with the political columnist

of the superexpress publication. tomasz walczak told: has the attitude of polish society towards ukrainian refugees changed? they don't talk about it, so it's hard to say what the solution will be, but the government is working on it. however, he has far more pressing matters of current politics. in my opinion, the solution will be so fast, as much as possible. i don't see any obstacles to the settlement of this issue, i assume that the government needed some trump cards in the negotiations with the ukrainian side about transportation, we remember the blockade of the border by the polish side, i don't see any other obstacles for a positive decision by the government, because the attitude towards ukrainians here in poland positive, they are needed here, and tusk's government is definitely not the one that wants to make life difficult for ukrainians in poland. when it comes to social polling, the changes inserted are not so big, compared to... the beginning of the big one war, of course, there are those in poland who believe that ukrainians receive

too much from the polish state, someone does not follow closely how ukrainians are treated in poland, because in fact ukrainians have been in poland for a long time, in fact since 2014, that they are not too stand out, emotions have subsided, compared to the surge of solidarity that we saw at the beginning of the war, and if there are any reservations, it is solely due to private fears that there will not be enough places for the poles themselves. whether it is in kindergartens or schools or queues to see doctors, this did not happen, but the polish state is functioning, well, as it is, so there is no xenophobia here, but exclusively its own interests. of course, government officials had a plan, not restrictions, but stipulations of social payments, putting forward certain conditions. these payments helped ukrainians to find themselves in polish realities, but now the question that some politicians ask themselves is whether it makes sense to continue such payments, because the majority of ukrainians... managed to find a job and support themselves so as not to increase public prejudices, here

there may be some changes, but do not be alarmed your viewers with such a perspective such a perspective, even this is all we have time to talk about today, look for more stories on our website bbc.ua, as well as on our pages in social networks, we will be on the air again tomorrow at 21. all the best. greetings, friends, the verdict program is live on the tv channel, we continue our broadcast, we work live on the tv channel and on our social networks, youtube and facebook. today in the issue. strengthening mobilization. the cabinet submitted

an updated draft law to the verkhovna rada. the petitioners can block accounts and ban driving . the leaders of the trust ratings are at a crossroads, the ways of zelensky and zaluzhny may diverge, who will shake ukraine from the inside. the specter of a parliamentary crisis. a monomajority may not have enough votes to make a decision. prospects of the government of national unity. in the course of the program, we are conducting a survey, we are asking you today, friends, about whether it is necessary to block the accounts of the petitioners and... deprive them of the right to drive a car, as provided for by the government bill, which will be considered in just a few days verkhovna rada of ukraine. so, if you support blocking the accounts of evaders and disqualifying them from driving, on youtube, yes, no, it's quite simple, if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you support

this initiative 0800 211 381 no 0800 211. this is 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, i want to introduce the guests of today's studio, we have the best political scientists and political experts of ukraine, today this is ihor reiterovych, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development, mr. igor, i congratulate you, i congratulate you, viktor shlinchak, chairman of the board of the institute of world politics, mr. viktor. good evening, good evening, thank you for being with us today, viktor boberenko, expert of the policy analysis bureau. mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good health. gentlemen, let's begin our conversation with a blitz poll, just briefly, if possible, about the poll that we conduct for our viewers and

tv viewers. do you think dodgers should be blocked ? accounts and deprive them of the right to enter cars. mr. viktor, shlinchak, my unequivocal no. thank you, mr. igor. i also lean more towards the negative answer to this question. thank you, mr. viktor, boberenko. and i am absolutely in favor of blocking them from everything. well , we will talk in more detail about the proposals made by the government to... the new mobilization law in just a few minutes, but i would like to start our conversation with such a large informational discussion, we witnessed a large informational discussion regarding the future commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine valery zaluzhny, because it all started with insiders

published by bloggers, journalists, as well as some telegram channels, which has already started from... in zelenskyi, then these bloggers, journalists and telegram channels were accused of throwing in some information that was not a complete fact, but today british publications, american publications appeared on the front pages with information that what the relationship between zaluzhny and zelenskyi is already on the brink and that zaluzhny's resignation is ... not imminent, it's only a matter of time, how did you, gentlemen, observe this, what conclusions did you draw from all this, and most importantly, how is what is happening in the information space and between the leadership, political leadership and military leadership of the state, how

does society in general affect ukrainians, well, and accordingly, the army. mr. igor, you have the floor. well, i made an unequivocal conclusion that there was an attempt to really shoot zaluzhny, it was clear that when only this information began to diverge, because it was spread not only , as they later tried to say, by some opposition bloggers, journalists or telegram channels, or the mass media, this was very actively engaged in, including the right-wing media, especially anonymous telegram channels, which generally in detail described how it happened and what was the reason, then they, however, deleted all these posts and tried to present the information completely... in a different way, but this does not change the essence. there was an attempt, the attempt ended unsuccessfully, due to various reasons, i think, here too the reaction of society and the reaction, apparently, of our partners, and the understanding that... the situation can get out of control and how to solve it further was not very clear, the western media by and large confirmed this, but the key conclusion from this story it is very

simple that the relationship between the military and political leadership of ukraine today leaves much to be desired, that is, communication is clearly very poor or very weak, or absent at all, well, depending on how often one or the other occurs meetings, and the initiative is that this... communication is so imperfect, it comes precisely from the side of politicians, not from the side of the military, practically everyone admits this, including unnamed sources, both from the side of the political leadership, and well, some there were references , for example, to the military, they noted that this communication essentially collapsed due to the position of the president's office, well, apparently politicians have different views on how to conduct a war, they want something different, and their reality is somewhat different from what ... what is actually on the battlefield, and why is it? will lead i think that the president's office will sooner or later try to force the resignation of the commander-in-chief anyway.

i've already seen enough different blog posts today, people explaining why it 's normal, why the president has the right to fire his manager, that is , they even use such concepts, although, to put it mildly, they sound strange in the context of war , so the office will have to somehow demonstrate its strength and prove it. the situation to the final, well programmed, the question is when it will happen and how much it will really affect on the attitude of society in general, no one will go out on the streets, i will say right away, that is , there will not be any maidans, coups and so on, which russia dreams of, but the fact that this will hit very hard in general on the rating of the authorities, on the rating of president zelenskyi personally , i think that no one doubts this for one simple reason, you see, the president really has the right to appoint a commander-in-chief, he does, well, it is according to the laws, and he can do it at any time what a moment, but in democracies in general it is customary to explain to society the reasons for this decision, similar decisions and

give certain arguments. to date, well, there are no more or less adequate arguments for making such a rotation, and accordingly it will be perceived exclusively as a political story, well, political stories during the war, they have very bad consequences, and society is beautiful. understands, well, the question here is whether someone in the president's office has the authority to explain what the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine is doing wrong, here the question is in the competence, yes, well, that is, if the to put forward any claims, then these claims must be, well, at the appropriate level. mr. viktor, i am addressing mr. boberenko, do you think there will be people in the president's office who will be able to explain. personnel decision, to which, in principle, zelenskyi has the right, as the commander-in-chief, in principle, he is responsible for

the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, and he can carry out such a rotation, the only question is whether they will be able to clearly and logically explain , what, what, what happened and why should zaluzhnyi go to another position or leave head office? they cannot do this logically at all, there is no explanation , let’s say, zulzhny is already a historical figure, zulzhny has more victories over the russians than probably anyone there in history, because even napoleon there, well, borodino defeated the australians there, but luzhny won there near kiev, near sumy, near chernigov, near kharkov, near kherson, and how many victories for luzhny that he already... ranks among the great commanders of the world in history, and even what would seem unsuccessful counter-offensive, but on the contrary, i would say there

, it is quite successful, so what many russians put in, tested a new technique, actually showed that you can try to attack without an advantage in the air, and without an advantage on the ground, but on one will, well roughly speaking, that's what you have to do. well, there is no reason to remove him and no one can explain it to anyone, that’s clear, and it can be explained only by the fact that what zaluzhnyi is really guilty of, he is guilty before zelenskyi, only that zelenskyi , as a chronic, classical, textbook narcissist, is very equal in this theater of the absurd, yes, where zelenskyi should be the director, where yeermak should be there... roughly speaking , the director-producer makes the productions, where in the distance there is a prompter there or who else writes texts for him, where you can either be in the orchestra pit and play

on. .. lunches or on paper clips, where you can be in the choir, where you can be stage decorations, you can't just be next to zelenskyi, he should be only one, here the hardworking one appeared, and the hardworking one is applauded longer, better, louder , than zelenskyi, and zelenskyi got nervous, and that is, everything, everything that concerns this conflict, it is not in well, it is not in the system of logic. it's just in the system, as there is a scandal in the family, they broke the dishes there, and why? because there is an equal husband , a charming wife, and they cannot control themselves, so we have a situation where my friends say to me, it is so illogical, they are like a colleague and as igor says that they will lose their ratings, it won't be profitable for them to fire the hard worker, there's like why are they chasing this fool, but i say yes because...

here, here it's not about logic, here it's about emotions, here it's not, here it is, thank you, mr. viktor, i am addressing the other viktor, mr. igor , by the way, you can guess, you are sitting between two viktors, to mr. shlenchak, but why two, two figures, zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, cannot understand each other, because in principle, both of them seek victory. both of them are in a rather difficult situation at the moment, which prevents them from understanding each other and which prevents them from coming out together and telling the ukrainian people that there are no problems, we are going to our victory together, there are no questions, the main thing for us is to defeat the russians, and not to start any showdowns, which are then described in detail international media on the eve of important

decisions for... ukraine, among other things? i don't have an answer to this question, actually, because the first such swallows began to appear in western countries, long before the new year, and then western journalists also wrote about the fact that a black cat had already passed between the commander-in-chief and the supreme commander. now you can find a lot of explanations for why this happened. of course, these are also political explanations. imagine when ratings are brought to you every day or once a week and supposedly they incite to the point that, look, what kind of cut your competitor has under your nose, they provoke a certain emotional component, here i am

my test. i agree with viktor very much, or they say that they say that the hard worker did not agree with anyone on the article and published it as an economist, i.e. why did he do it himself, why does he behave like an independent figure, why does he not ask for permission and so on, i.e. one more such point that can get stuck somewhere... on the subcortex of the brain, you can also now find an explanation in the fact that how many people need to be mobilized, when the commander-in-chief says that it is not necessary to mobilize 500,000 now, at the same time , the cabinet of ministers introduces a law on mobilization, and there are supposedly...

there are a lot of details in them, it is clear that when a critical mass of such misunderstandings accumulates , there is a big explosion on an emotional level, in fact, i think that everyone in the president's office is already ready for this explosion, and that's why anonymous telegram channels attributed to the president's office absolutely, well... so calmly reported that they say that volodymyr oleksandrovich has already released zaluzhna. that's why it's really not about any logical, cause-and-effect relationships, it's primarily about emotional and interpersonal, apparently , relationships that haven't been working out lately. i have another question.