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glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and ours. victory today in the program. looking for a replacement. world media are writing about zaluzhny's imminent resignation. what threatens the rotation of the head of the armed forces in the midst of war? more weapons, more ammunition the european union is looking for ways to support ukraine while american aid is on hold. scandals around the ministry of defense. billions equipment of the hrynkevich family

and the lviv arsenal, how to prevent theft during the war? over the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine iryna gerashchenko, military expert mykhailo samus and volunteer, adviser to the minister of defense of ukraine, dana yarova. in the second part of our program, which will begin in exactly one hour, we will have political ones experts, ihor reiterovych and utim, before starting our big conversation, watch the video of the return from russian captivity of 207 defenders of ukraine, among the released defenders of mariupol, kherson and fighters from the island of snakes. the first shots of the heroes' return to their native land, let's see.

we will lay down our body and soul for our freedom and show that we are brothers of the cossack village. touching video, glory to ukrainian heroes. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please like this video, please do so definitely, and subscribe to our pages in social networks. in addition, during this broadcast, we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether the accounts of evaders should be blocked and their rights revoked. driving a car, as stipulated

by the government bill, which will soon be considered by the verkhovna rada of ukraine in the session hall. if you watch us on youtube, it's pretty simple, yes, no. two functions, two buttons, if you want to leave your comment or have your personal opinion, please write below this video if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if you think it is necessary to block the accounts of scumbags and deprive them of driving a car (0800-211-381), no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program... let's sum up the results of this vote. we have our first guest on the phone, she is a people's deputy of ukraine from the european solidarity faction iryna herashchenko. mrs. irina, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good evening to all viewers of espress. mrs. iryna, cont

in the last three days, incredible informational things have been happening around zaluzhnyi, the head of the armed forces of ukraine, information has been appearing. that zelensky wants to resign, they even wrote that there is a decree of resignation, then there was a denial, then there were accusations by bloggers and journalists that they allegedly spread the wrong information, but during these days we see how the international media, financial times and the economist wrote about the fact that they confirmed that the conversation with zelenskyi took place, and that there is... the possibility or that there is a prospect that this the case will continue, it is implied that zaluzhnyi will be removed by zelensky, and this will happen literally in some conceivable perspective, can this information that appears in the international media be considered an accomplished fact, what will it be, and

first of all, indeed, you started your program with such an emotional video, for me in... it was especially emotional, because the release of every ukrainian hero is a big job, it is a great joy for the family and for all of us, and i sincerely congratulate the 207 families who today heard the call, or finally met your loved one, your husband, your lover , your father, god forbid that all the heroes come back, and this video, it very rightly reminds us that the hot phase of the war is going on, things are extremely difficult at the front, and it seems to me that ... any action by the authorities today, which concerns personnel decisions, whether it is in the rear, or especially when it comes to military leadership, must answer the question of whether it will be better for victory, this is how it should be approached, it seems to me, to any question, this is the first,

secondly, i did not comment on anything at all happened on monday, and i don't know right now , and neither do any of us who weren't there, weren't present at those conversations, what 's really going on at the bank, but what's in the midst of it today, really, when the united states is so hard discussions are taking place regarding aid to ukraine, the european union will hold a summit on unblocking 50 billion euros tomorrow, but the world media do not publish columns about ukrainian heroes, about liberation, about the difficult situation around avdiiv. or in the kupinsky direction, but about squabbles, quarrels, showdowns - this absolutely terrible, and it is obvious that the fact that today the bbc, as you rightly pointed out, and the new york times, and the financial times, and the economist came out with columns about the fact that

such a personnel decision was made, and the basis is not so much military issues or problems, or a different view of these military problems, although civilians cannot have a view on... what strategies, we are not experts in this, there can only be trust or distrust, but all this is really, i think, deepening crisis, makes certain things inevitable, and c in this context, it seems to me that it would be very important for president zelensky to finally find time in two years to meet with the leaders of the parliamentary factions, and to have a frank and honest conversation, as we can see... together with this difficult year, which is also difficult internally, considering economic challenges, mobilization challenges, what should be our joint work abroad, why he makes certain decisions, all this is extremely important, and lastly, i want to point out

the communication failures of the authorities when official information appears from the ministry of defense in the style of kvn, we confirm that this is all untrue, it is absolutely not... it is ridiculous and really causes the distrust of journalists and rejection, when for the first time in two years of the war , the president's press secretary finally appears in public, about whom... everyone has already forgotten , and also gives one short sentence, it does not add credibility, and you know, i want to say that today several international media called me with a request to give a comment on the situation with zaluzhny, i honestly refuse, because i am not informed about it questions and the least i want to harm now to everything that happens in this such'. topic, and here i can only repeat the position of the fifth president poroshenko,

who rightly noted that if someone is screwing president zelensky about such a resignation, then it is worth resigning the people around him, who are creating this atmosphere of such hatred, undermining trust in everyone , because you know, we in the opposition very clearly feel this atmosphere of hatred of the authorities. to everyone who is not in power, the journalists are bad, the parliament is bad, the opposition is bad, who are the military are also bad, well, this is not normal, because now is the time to collect stones, so that our viewers understand what we are talking about, i will quote an excerpt from a publication in the times, or rather in the economist, that what the british publication writes that president zelenskyi has not yet signed the decree on the resignation of the tyrant, but such a development... the event is still possible, quoting the british: the release of one of the most popular figures in ukraine would be

very controversial and become a turning point in ukraine's conflict with russia. so far, mr. zelensky has not announced the replacement of the general, but this does not mean that general zaluzhny is not at risk, it may simply be that his replacement has not yet been determined. well, the times, already mentioned by me, writes with reference to its own sources that the commander of the ground forces oleksandr syrskyi and the head of the gur ministry. defense minister of ukraine kyrylo budanov rejected zelenskyi's offer to take over the position of commander-in-chief of the armed forces, instead of valery zaluzhnyi, so zelenskyi was forced to cancel his decision under pressure from high-ranking officials and international experts. well, actually, we will follow the development of this situation serhiy, i will add one more remark, you read the correct quotes, but there is more in the articles, and there is much worse, that the reason for the possible dismissal is the popularity of zaluzhny. the fact that he has, as if, the support of ukrainians today is greater than president zelenskyi, and

this is much more dangerous, when western partners and western media in the conditions of war in ukraine are insinuating that it is on the front page, on the foreground for someone at the bank politics, ratings, popularity, likes, and not one question, how best, with what strategies and to win the war, this is very bad. beyond any doubt, of course , mobilization is mentioned in this story , they say that the main thing, the main conflict that can be between zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, is the issue of mobilization, because we saw this public debate in absentia between zaluzhnyi and zelenskyi, when zelenskyi spoke about the fact that the military wants to mobilize 500,000 citizens in 2024, zaluzhnyi said that this is not a one-time event. that it is still necessary to attract more people to troops, because there is a war and absolutely everything

is clear. the law on mobilization, the next version: on february 6 , the verkhovna rada of ukraine should again be considered, and so far there is no, as i understand the conclusion of the specialized committee, whether it is suitable or not, but the main theses of this draft law have already been published in zmi, and so have you well, have you seen these main points, to what extent is what the government is proposing again different from what has already happened? and i read yesterday the text of the law that passed, the draft law, or rather, that passed from the government, certain remarks are taken into account , in particular the remarks of our political force, we insisted, for example, on the need to increase the leave for those released from captivity, you see how relevant today we are talking about this, because according to the current legislation , military service.. sheep who were released from captivity, they must return, well, after a short rehabilitation there, a medical examination,

return to their units, although often these people have complex injuries, after torture and so on, they will be given another 90 days, additional leave, it is also important, and we have been constantly emphasizing this for two years, that the mobilized must undergo very professional , high-quality training and... these three months of training are laid down there, so that people are not immediately released to the battlefield without appropriate training. at the same time, in this draft law are fixed. those norms that the government, you know, so clearly denied until yesterday, for example, the government denied, this is not the opposition, the government, through the mouths of ministers, representatives of the president's office, said that there would be none, for example, online summons, in this law, the draft law very clearly records not only the creation of an electronic

office, but the possibility of online summonses, if we talk about more draconian clauses that... caused objections not only from the public, but also from deputies, but also from the commissioner of human affairs, when they met without a court and investigations there to seize property and block accounts, and the possibility to seize cars there if a person evades service in the armed forces, well, that is, evades a summons, and now this draft law includes a provision that similar actions can... take place after a court decision, to which tsc will have the right to apply. these are debatable norms, because we are definitely talking about the restriction of rights, and it is not already recorded there that only this is during martial law. the debatable norm regarding the attachment of all consular services to the military ticket is also essentially such

a limitation of the rights of ukrainian citizens abroad. and now political history is key. according to the constitution of ukraine , the commander-in-chief is responsible for mobilization. it is very surprising that president zelensky does not submit a bill his vision, how he sees mobilization. we have a number of laws on military topics, in particular, by the way, on lowering the age of mobilization from 27 to 25, which were voted by the parliament, but not signed by the president for several months. this draft law again lays down such norms , so tell me how the parliament... should consider a draft law that contains norms that have not already been signed by the president, when the president publicly says that there is no need for 500,000 mobilized people there, and we will shoot spears, discuss, amend, very to treat the bill responsibly, and then the president simply won't sign it, and that's why our position is: we're waiting for the bill from the president, we believe that the president should

state his position, it's wrong that on such an important topic, the key topic of this... is being ignored he, it cannot be transferred to the government, because the government does not have the full extent of the information that is discussed at the rate, which is only available to the commander-in-chief and the commander-in-chief, and therefore we believe that this is also one of those topics on which he has there will be a meeting of president zelenskyi with representatives of the factions to hear the position of the supreme commander-in-chief, are we going on the defensive this year, how will these fortifications be built then? buildings, how the economy will be provided , what will be the burden on the engineering troops , well, that is, a lot of questions to which i would like to receive complex, professional answers, so that the law is not empty, so that it is perceived by society as a fair law, and lastly, i would noted that the main negative of this law is, as it were, recorded there

the norm that service in the army after mobilization will last 36 months. this is a lot, if we are talking about bakhmut or avdiivka, imagine 36 months under avdiivka, but at the same time there is no clear fixation there, even 36 months, and it is said that it will be 36 months plus 1 month after the relevant decision there is a rate or something this, that is, it can last forever, and i think that this is the norm for our political power that is key, because we realize what a burden it is on the military, who... have been on the hotlines for two years front, how they need rotation and demobilization. another short question, regarding the assistance of the congress of the united states of america, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg in washington discussed with the leadership of the congress the further support of ukraine, and the director of the cia william burns stated that it is strategically important

for the united states of america to continue supporting ukraine against the background of russia '. aggression, i will quote william berntz, who in an interview said literally the following: "maintaining the flow of weapons will strengthen ukraine's position if there will be an opportunity for serious negotiations. this gives a chance to ensure a long-term victory for ukraine and a strategic loss for russia. ukraine could protect its sovereignty and recover, while russia would have to bear the constant costs of putin's stupidity. for the united states to withdraw from the conflict at this moment and stop supporting ukraine would be an own goal of a historic scale. ms. iryna, will this not be the own goal that cir director william burst is talking about. because we see the development events in the united states of america , well, it simply pushes us to not even the tenth position, probably to the 20th or 30th,

because there is texas, there is trump, there are still some internal problems in the united states of america, and well indeed, the situation with the vote in the congress on providing ukraine with the military aid we need in the amount of 61 billion dollars now. stalled primarily due to the start of the actual election campaign in the united states, and it seems to me that we need to intensify our efforts to work here with the congress, with the senate, at this time they are blocking inter-parliamentary activities, we communicate a lot online, because there is no other opportunity with our partners from the parliaments of the countries of the european union, and you know, it is very a... positive and so poignant when our real allies are now also working with their colleagues in the united states to convey to them this position

of the criticality of this aid for ukraine. indeed, it seems to me that we need all of our allies here now to get this signal to the united states. and let me one more remark, you know, another event happened today, i personally really expected it, the decision of the un international court. in gas, this is the first such big decision regarding the financing of terrorism by the russian federation, the lawsuit was filed in the year 17, it was being prepared since the year 15, and i it related to mh-17, it seems that what more evidence is needed for the world and the court to to realize who was behind this terrible crime, who sponsored this terrorism, at the same time the court's decision is incomplete, the court partially recognized ukraine's position and partially supported our lawsuit, and this is also a very alarming signal that

indicates the need to strengthen our advocacy, strengthen our legal position, our evidence base, this is very serious, unfortunately, russia has been preparing for war for a long time, and it is using all its capabilities on all fronts, including including, well, we... now there are hybrid methods in order to weaken ukraine, and this is also a cause for concern. thank you, mrs. iryna, for your participation in our program, it was iryna gerashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our platforms in youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching us live, there. please don't waste time, like this video so that it can be trended on youtube and facebook. well... participating in our vote, today we are asking you about whether it is necessary to block the accounts of the petitioners and deprive them of the right to drive a car, because these norms

are laid down in the new draft law on mobilization, or at least in the new old one, if you can say so , which will be considered by the verkhovna rada of ukraine already next week. shmyhal's government has prepared another draft law we will talk in more detail about mobilization, about what norms are there. in our second studio, which will start in literally 40 minutes, and now we, friends, are in touch with kateryna galko, who is in kyiv, and she was at the event today, the deputy secretary of state of the united states of america for political affairs came to us questions, victoria nuland. katerina, please tell me what the results are. because she is an important enough and powerful figure in politics, american politics, how her visit went, what she talked about

the situation in ukraine, and most importantly, when the congress of the united states of america will restore funding for ukraine and the needs of the armed forces of ukraine? i congratulate sergey, i congratulate the viewers of the tv channel, so really. this is the most important question, we still haven't received an answer, mrs. victoria nulan 's speech was quite brief, however, she managed to mention all the main aspects of her visit, in particular , she said that it is important for her to come to ukraine in winter, when it is especially difficult for us , i will note that she came to ukraine last year as well, and was also here and 10 years ago, during the events on the maidan during the revolution of dignity, we know that today she had meetings with a representative of... the ukrainian authorities, she also said that she traveled to the rehabilitation center in which they invested funds, and there she managed to communicate with the boys and girls who

defend our front, she... said that they really admire her, as they admire all americans, er, she said that, she is glad, she is glad to note that america is still helping ukraine, trying this year as well we succeeded after all, both last year and this year we managed to return almost half of the territories occupied by russia, we managed to restore grain exports, we managed to restrain our energy sector, but this is the main question, when will the congress approve the package. aid to ukraine, of course, representatives of the ukrainian media asked her this question, and let's hear her answer. americans understand and admire the miracle that ukraine has already achieved in defending itself against such a terrible russian aggression. and we also understand what happens if you can't do more than just that to survive, but also to thrive. so, i am absolutely sure that this understanding will be marked

in u'. congress at the suggestion of president biden. mrs. victoria also noted that they will try to continue to support our defense sector, are ready to invest in the development of our military industry , are ready to also develop their military-industrial complex in order to help ukraine, in particular, she mentioned the small-diameter ground-launched bombs that are already on their way to ukraine. actually, that's all the information we've heard today, all that i i know at the moment, so sergius, i pass otert to you. thank you, kateryna, this was kateryna galko, our correspondent, who today met with victoria nuland, the deputy secretary of state of the united states of america, who is visiting kyiv. next, we will be in touch with mykhailo samus, military expert, expert of the army, conversion

and disarmament research center, mr. mykhailo, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, mr. mykhailo, well, maybe this is a political issue, about the meritorious one, and i don't want to now to discuss the political aspect of the issue of what is happening with the military command and the supreme military command in ukraine, but still these discussions, which are public discussions about who will be the next commander-in-chief, whether he will stay behind... or not, they are at the forefront the columns of the world media, that is, all the british and all the american newspapers came out with this message, with their insiders, what was happening there, how it affects the ukrainian army, the situation and atmosphere of the ukrainian army, and most importantly, how it may affect the course of the russian-ukrainian war, well, i would like to point out that in fact

the primary... issue in this situation is not personnel, that is, personnel, in fact, ah, we are talking now about the fate of the ukrainian of the nation, and not about the fate of individual generals or even individual politicians, so we must still put aside emotions, especially regarding specific individuals, and think about what we need this year, this year ukraine should not go on the strategic defense, as some advise us western politicians, what media, obviously calculating that it will be possible to sign some minsk agreements again at our expense and then calmly return to business with russia, because it is better to advise us to sit on the defensive for a whole year so that russia accumulates more resources and forms an offensive potential so that in the 25th year to launch a large-scale offensive is very good advice, but i think it is clearly not to our

advantage, but... what is important is how we succeed in the 24th year, the turning point in this war is obvious , and general zaluzhnyi himself wrote in his article that in 22 november, this is the first article that came out at that time regarding the plans for the 23rd year, he spoke then about the center of gravity, according to the definition of the clause, this is still in this war, and he defined this center of gravity as crimea, that is, obviously , that the turning point in this war will come when... ukraine begins the operation to de-occupy crimea. without this operation, you can sit in strategic defense for several years, you can talk about it, but the key change will not happen. therefore, the question is not about personnel issues, but the question is how we in the 24th year will be able to solve the issue of the turning point of the war, actually to carry out the beginning of the deoccupation of crimea. this is the key

question and when we...