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congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel. the verdict program, we continue our broadcast, we work live on the tv channel and on our social networks, on youtube and on facebook. today in the issue. strengthening mobilization the cabinet submitted an updated draft law to the verkhovna rada. petitioners can have their accounts blocked and be banned from driving . leaders of trust ratings at the crossroads, the paths of zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi. may disperse, who is shaking ukraine from the inside? the specter of a parliamentary crisis. a monomajority may not have enough votes to make decisions about the prospects of the government of national unity. during the program, we conduct

surveys. we are asking you today, friends, about whether it is necessary to block the accounts of the petitioners and deprive them of the right to drive a car, as this is stipulated by the government draft law, which will be passed in just a few days. considered by the verkhovna rada of ukraine. so, if you support blocking the accounts of cheaters and depriving them of their driving rights, on youtube , yes, no, everything is quite simple. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you support this initiative. 0800 211381, no, 0800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results. of this vote, i want to present guests of today's studio, we have the best political scientists and political experts of ukraine, today it is igor reiterovych, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development, mr. igor, i congratulate you, i congratulate you

, viktor shlinchak, chairman of the board of the institute of world politics, mr. viktor, good evening, good evening, thank you for being with us today, bureau of policy analysis. mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good health. gentlemen, let's start our conversation with a blitz poll, just in case you can briefly talk about the survey that we conduct for our viewers and tv viewers. in your opinion, should the petitioners' accounts be blocked and their driving rights revoked? mr. victor. shlinchak, my unequivocal no. thank you, mr. igor. i also lean more towards the negative answer to this question. thank you, mr. viktor, boberenko. and i am absolutely for it. for blocking them from everything. well

, we will talk in more detail about the proposals made by the government to the new mobilization law in just a few minutes, but i would like to... start our conversation with such a large informational discussion, we witnessed a large informational discussion regarding the future commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine valery zaluzhny, because it all started with insiders published by bloggers, journalists, as well as some telegram channels that zelenskyi had already diligently dismissed, then these bloggers, journalists and telegram channels were accused of ... throwing out some information that was not an established fact, but today british publications, american publications came out of the first columns with information that the relationship between zaluzhny

and zelenskyi is already on the verge, and that zaluzhny's resignation is not inevitable, it's only a matter of time, how did you, gentlemen, observe this, what conclusions did you draw from it ... of everything, and most importantly, er, as what happens in the information space and between, management. the political leadership and military leadership of the state, how society in general affects ukrainians, and accordingly, the army. mr. igor, you have the floor. well, i made an unequivocal conclusion that there was an attempt to really remove zaluzhny, it was clear that as soon as this information began to spread, because it was spread not only, as some opposition bloggers, journalists or telegram channels, or the mass media tried to say later, they were very actively engaged in this, including and right-wing media. especially anonymous telegram channels, which generally described in detail how it happened and

what was the reason, then they, however, deleted all these posts and tried to present information in a completely different way, but this does not change essentially there was an attempt, the attempt ended unsuccessfully, due to various reasons, i think, here the reaction of society, and the reaction, apparently, of our partners, and the understanding that the situation can get out of control, and how to solve it further was not very clear, in the western countries. by and large, all this was confirmed, but the key conclusion from this story is very simple, that the relations between the military and political leadership of ukraine today leave much to be desired, that is, communication is clearly very bad or very weak, or absent at all, depending on how often these or other meetings take place, and the initiative is that this communication is so imperfect, it comes precisely from the side of politicians, not from the side of the military, that.. . practically everyone admits , including unnamed sources, both from the side of the political

leadership, and well, there were some references , for example, to the military, they noted that this communication essentially fell apart because of the position of the president’s office, well, apparently the politicians have other views as needed to wage war, they want something different, and they have a somewhat different reality than what is actually on the battlefield, and what that will lead to, i think that the office of the president sooner or later... will try to force the resignation of the commander in chief, i've already seen enough different blog posts today, people explaining why it 's normal, why the president has the right to fire his manager, that is , they even use such concepts, although, to put it mildly, they sound strange in context war uh therefore, the office will have to somehow demonstrate strength and bring this situation to the end, well programmed, the question is when it will happen and, well, to what extent it will really... affect the attitude of society in general , no one will go out on the street, i will say right away, that is,

not there will be some kind of maidans, coups and so on, which russia dreams of, but the fact that this will hit the rating of the authorities very much, and the rating of president zelensky personally, i think that this does not cause any doubt for one simple reason, you see, it is possible and the president has the right dismiss the commander-in-chief, he can, well, it is according to the laws, and he can do it at any moment. but in democracies in general, it is customary to explain to society the reasons for this decision, similar decisions, and to present certain arguments. to date, well , there are simply no more or less adequate arguments for making such a rotation, and accordingly, it will be perceived exclusively as a political story, well, political stories during the war, they have very bad consequences, and society is beautiful understands well, the question is is there someone in the president's office to explain... what the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine is doing wrong, here it is a matter of

competence, yes, well, that is, if the meritorious person makes any claims, then these claims must be, well, at the appropriate level. mr. viktor, i am turning to mr. boberenko , do you think there will be people in the president's office who will be able to explain the personnel decision, which, the right, to which, in principle, zelenskyi has, as the commander-in-chief. whether in principle he is also responsible for the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, and he can carry out such a rotation. the only question is whether they will be able to clearly and logically explain what happened and why zaluzhny should go to another position or resign from the post of head of the committee? they cannot do it logically at all, there are no explanations, let's say. zaluzhnyi is already a historical figure . zaluzhnyi won more victories over the russians than

probably anyone else in history, because even napoleon there, well, borodino defeated austerlitz there, but zaluzhnyi won there at kiev, at sumy, at chernihiv, at kharkiv, near kherson, and already how many victories for luzhny, that he already stands in the same row with the great generals of the world in history, and even that... it would seem like an unsuccessful counteroffensive, but on the contrary, he, i would say there , he is quite successful, so what many russians put in, tested a new technique, actually showed that it is possible to try to advance even without... superiority in the air and without superiority on the ground, but on one will, well, roughly speaking, so what industrious, well, there is nothing to remove him and he will not explain it to anyone in any way, this unequivocally, and this can be explained only by the fact that what the tyrant is really guilty of, he is guilty

before zelensky, only that zelensky, as a chronic, classic, textbook... narcissist, is very equal in this theater of the absurd, and where zelensky should be direct, yermak should there, roughly speaking, to make productions, the director-producer , where far away, there is the prompter, or who else writes the lyrics for him, where you can be or in the orchestra pit and play the velancello or harpsichord, where you can be in the choir, where you can be the stage scenery, you can't only be next to zelensky, he should be the only one , zulazhny appeared here, and zulazhny is applauded longer, better, louder than zelenskyi, and zelenskyi got nervous, and, that is, everything, everything that concerns this conflict, it is not in the right place, it is not in the system of logic, it is simply in

the system, as there is a scandal in the family, the dishes were broken, but why... it is not about logic here, it is about emotions, it is not here, but somewhere it is. thank you, mr. viktor, i am addressing another victor, mr. igor, by the way, you can guess, between the two viktors you are sitting, to mr. shlenchak, why are the two figures , zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, unable to get along, because in principle, both of them seek

victory, and both of them are in a rather difficult situation at the moment, which prevents them from getting along and... which prevents them from coming out together and to tell the ukrainian people that there are no problems, we are going to our victory together, there are no questions, the main thing for us is to defeat the russians, and not to start some showdowns, which are then described in detail by the international media on the eve of important decisions for ukraine, among other things, on this issue i do not have, answers, because the first such swallows began to appear in western countries long before the new year, and then western journalists also wrote about the fact that a black cat had already passed between the commander-in-chief and the supreme commander.

now you can find a lot of explanations for why this happened. of course, these are also political explanations, imagine when you are brought ratings every day or once a week and allegedly incited to the fact that, look, what kind of cut you have here under your nose, competitors, accordingly, provoke a certain emotional constituent, here i agree with my namesake viktor very much, ee or they say that ee... they say that zaluzhnyi did not agree with anyone on the article and published it in zeoext, that is, why did he do it himself, why is he behaving like an independent figure, why he does not ask for permission and so on, that is, another such point that can get stuck somewhere in the back of the

brain, you can just as well now... find an explanation in how many people need to be mobilized, when the supreme commander says that no it is necessary to mobilize 500,000 now, while contributing the law on mobilization by the cabinet of ministers, and there are a lot of such, well, seemingly small details, it is clear that when a critical mass of such misunderstandings accumulates, a big explosion occurs on an emotional level, actually, i think that this explosion... everyone in the president's office is already ready, and that's why anonymous telegram channels attributed to the president's office absolutely, well, so calmly

reported that they say volodymyr oleksandrovich had already released the prisoners, so it's really not about any logical, cause-and-effect relationships ties, here first turn about... and interpersonal relations , which have not been developing lately, i have another question, this is a question that i always asked when some representatives of the president's office, and not only the president's office, said that we would be in crimea in the summer , for example, i said, and if we don't, then what will we do, will there be a president's office? and certain special services, what they will then sell, sell, of course, in quotes to the ukrainian society, how will they explain it,

were there any grounds for this, to claim similar, and now we will have exactly the same situation, because if the commander-in-chief changes, or rather, when the commander-in-chief changes, i am here... i can also support the version of our western journalists that the question of the change will still arise and it will still end with resignation sooner or later, remark, indeed, president zelenskyi has all the powers to do this, but along with that, what if after the change. chief, the situation at the front will not improve, i.e. the situation at the front, the situation in the army

, the situation with mobilization, how then will the president's office explain why this did not happen, and accordingly , the person who will come to the place for a volunteer will feel, again, highly dependent on political decisions that... will be dictated to him, otherwise he will fall out of favor, just like the industrious one, and here you very truthfully said what to expect there, but you have to understand that when people there start to be led to an opinion , which does not need to be created there is an alternative to zelenskyi, please... zaluzhny is aiming for the next presidency or some other such things, then i have a very simple question:

have we already won? do we already know when the presidential election will be? we know with what positions zaluzhny, zelensky and other actors who we currently have in the field will take part in these presidential elections. i have a very clear answer until the war is won, or at least the situation with the war is not clear, until we have conditions for the re-election of the supreme the commander-in-chief, the president, until there are conditions for elections, until then , what kind of elections should we think about at all, here, first of all , we need to think about what to do with the war, what to do in situations when we really have... a lack of funds, lack of weapons and lack of manpower on the front line. i absolutely, absolutely agree with you, mr. viktor, that in a situation where

the question is about the future of ukraine, about the question of life and death, and the question of how we can win this war, in fact, and not lose both ukraine and independence , and territories. then in fact, even after that , you have to think about who will be a candidate and in what year a presidential candidate or head of a political party, but among the arguments that have been heard over the past few days in the discussion, whether in-person or in-person discussions between zaluzhny and zelenskyi, they say there was a question about mobilization, on february 6... the verkhovna rada of ukraine should start consideration of the draft law on mobilization, the updated draft law was prepared by the government, submitted to the verkhovna rada of ukraine

and... let's see what is actually in it the bills are there so that our viewers understand why zelenskyi and zaluzhny were able to debate there, and not only because of that, but because of what awaits millions of people who fall under mobilization over the next few years, so that to understand what system they are currently trying to build in ukraine in order for this mobilization to work, so the main... innovations of the government bill on mobilization are very brief: first: conscription age and terms of service, a change in the conscription age from 27 to 25 years is foreseen and discharge after 36 months of continuous service during martial law. the second is the draftee's electronic account. it is proposed to oblige conscripts to register the draftee's electronic account, where the tsc will be able to send electronic summonses. third, mandatory accounting reconciliation. data

within 60 days after the entry into force of the law on military conscription must undergo a verification of account data, which can be done through an electronic cabinet. fourth: punishment for evaders: in case of non-appearance at the shopping center , a temporary restriction of the exercise is provided driving vehicles, confiscation of funds in bank accounts and electronic money in electronic wallets. fifth - additional powers of the police: policemen get the right to check military registration documents. to detain conscripts and deliver them to the tsc, well, there are still many points , we just chose these five most important points, it is clear that in this situation zelenskyi is saying: the military has prepared such a bill for me or the government has prepared it, and zelenskyi can at any time what moment to bequeath this law or not to sign, as was the case with the law, where, among other things , the mobilization age was reduced from 27 to 20.

five years, but this law was not signed and returned somewhere, and without a veto, and it is generally unclear what happened to it. mr. viktor , i would like to ask me a question, if you will allow me, about this bill right away, but look, if president zelenskyy wants to take all the responsibility upon himself by dismissing the headman, why does he not introduce this bill himself, why do we... we don't hear what the president actually wants, that is, now the verkhovna rada will start to break there first spears and make some amendments, and then you correctly told sergey that later it will turn out that some of these novelties that will be introduced, they will not coincide with the way the supreme commander sees this situation, accordingly, the law can be

enshrined, then why. .. what is there to protect such a garden, if it is possible to introduce a presidential bill on your own, there is a possibility of a legislative initiative in it, thank you, thank you, mr. viktor, i am turning to another, mr. viktor, what do you think, why zelensky is constantly distancing himself from mobilization mobilization law, because it is a direct presidential duty and obligation. the supreme commander-in-chief to announce mobilization or submit a mobilization plan or announce that we continue mobilization, this happened eight times, if i am not mistaken, during the last two years of the great war, that is, a bill was submitted, mobilization continues, there are no questions, and when we came to this great conceptual of the law, it turns out that there are some military personnel who are preparing, and zelensky

for some reason does not associate. with this vertical though he is the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine. the law is not quite popular in the electoral group of zelenskyi supporters, because zelenskyi supporters, again , let's not generalize, not all, but a significant part, and they see it through focus groups very simply, yes, they understand that there is a ... audience , well, the electoral audience, which would like to fight with the remote control to the advantage, and there, like to shout hooray on the sofa, and they do not like some norms of the law, first of all, the reduction of the conscription age from 27 to 25 years old, that is why, seeing this, zelensky wants distance yourself