donald tusk decided that his first foreign visit was to kyiv, the first, because , of course, he attended a meeting of the european council, but going to brussels for a council meeting is not a visit to belgium, so it was ukraine that was the first foreign visit, also the first for outside the eu, and this was the finalization of what was previously noted by donald tusk in the explo. in his program speech, donald tusk uttered the word ukraine, ukrainian women or ukrainians. this means that he thinks first of all in the strategic context that ukraine should receive support now, and our role is to mobilize the west, the european union, the united states, so that the 24th year will be a happy one for ukraine, because it is closely related to our security, the role of a polish politician. and this is how i see my task is

to explain to our citizens , for example, that if you do something for ukraine today, you are doing it for yourself, if you do not do it, if you oversleep, it means that putin will get additional time to arm himself and hit with more force, and that's the context, and that's why the decision is that the first visit is ukraine, well, the road is known, there is nothing to describe it. foreign politicians and, in general , no one travels by train these days, and even so far, so there is a bit of a shift in time, there is time for discussions, discussions, there is a lot of time in this carriage, and that is why it works a little differently than usual a visit when you hop on a plane. run out of

the plane and complete the following points of the visits program. if we talk about the most important elements, it is participation in the celebration of the day of the cathedral of ukraine. and maybe that's a bad word, pretext, but it really was a motive in order to come, in fact, a long conversation between prime minister tusk and president zelenskyi, then joint negotiations of whole delegations, then also with the head of the government. that is, a conversation by himself, and... everything is only dotted for now, because this government is just being formed. forming a government in a modern country is a long process, so they talked a little about energy. if we talk about individual projects, of course, you need to look closely at how they were implemented, how connections work in one or another place. they talked a little about agriculture, a little about transport, a little about military issues. and of course, these fundamental political issues.

the day i knew that we would be going to kyiv, and before leaving my thoughts were directed to devoting all the time to briefings and meetings with experts, to talk about ukraine, a little from a blank slate, so i had the idea that i would spend a lot of time i will refer to conversations with experts whom i have known for a long time, because i myself am from this environment, but okay, in general, it looked like the 23rd year was successful for the ukrainian army, in the sense that it succeeded to hold the front line, and... but also

the last great success was kherson, that is , the 22nd year, and before that the battle near kiev. we thought about what ukraine lacks in order to speak more clearly about the battlefield with russia. so i tried to find an answer to the question of what would have to happen to include a more positive, dynamic scenario of this war. i remember that i was already leaving. on the train , i had a long conversation with the prime minister and members of the delegation, and browsing the internet, i found an article that on the front line between the ukrainian and russian troops, so many rats and mice, as was the case in the first world war. and my first instinct as a historian was: "oh my god, how do they know how many rats and mice there were then." but then i thought that basically the main thing is cementing the belief that... this war will last

a long time, and the longer this war lasts, the worse this scenario is for ukraine and central europe. therefore, in essence, the task of every western politician ... is to ensure that this war lasts shorter, and that it lasts shorter means the need to give ukraine the opportunity to achieve clear victories. and then the question arises: what should be done for the ukrainians to break this stability, this frozen stabilization, as it was during the first world war. almost simultaneously with the speeches of donald tusk in kyiv, where many words were said about support. interests of business and at the same time prevent security from finding a balance between dialogue and opportunities for russian special services to manipulate us. well, first of all, you need to see

the whole picture, that is, to see, for example, how the export of polish goods to ukraine has increased. maybe we'd like to see more investment, and we will probably discuss this in the near future. sometimes, but ukrainians also buy a lot of polish goods, and this is important for public opinion in poland, because the mechanism is simple. i will now turn to the farmers. when you take this train to kyiv and see a glass of tea in front of you, you feel like you're sitting in a movie and think, what can i say to ukrainians, how can i motivate them? then the thought occurred to me, you should also help us a little? ourselves, that is, if we want to pursue a policy of greater military support, greater mobilization west, we must have more support in our own society to carry out such a policy, it consists of two elements,

that is, we must do so that polish farmers do not lose, and for this a solution must be found, and it will be found from the moment when ukrainian politicians understand, that it is important for the legitimization of our common political affairs in other spheres, you should not think that this is something like a quarrel between poland and ukraine, because it is not so, the issue is deeper, it is a real problem in large groups, large social groups that support the government, and we have to make sure that these social groups feel satisfied and have no losses, that is, first of all , the first thing that should be understood, i would explain it like this to a ukrainian politician, in the head of this polish farmer, who has problems with selling grain, the story looks like this: i accepted a ukrainian family, helped, and now i am losing, and the facts are not important here, because sometimes they can be a little different, sometimes it could be that this particular person did not accept

ukrainians, did not help, or helped, or somehow different, or this farmer did not lose, because he received support from the european union and the polish... government, right? but he must be sure at the level of his perception that he must continue political support for ukraine. so, first of all , you need to tell him that ukraine is also a good market and that cattle breeding is also good today. secondly, he needs to show that there is a possibility of support from the eu, and we also need support from the ukrainian side in this. i would say yes to ukrainian politicians. instead of going to brussels and speaking there. let's agree, the poles won't have anything to say, do it, come up with a way together with the poles to make this group of farmers satisfied, because such ways exist in the eu, you just need to want to. let's approach the topic a little differently. as you know, on this visit i saw a good

deal of this kind of thinking. it suddenly turned out that neither the issue of transport nor the issue of agriculture is untranslatable, they are complex at a certain level, but for god's sake, they are not strategic. and it looks like we, thanks to the existence of the eu, can solve these issues, some of them will be relevant when ukraine is already in the eu. i predict that our support will be strong for negotiations with the eu, because the time will come when ukraine will be in the eu, and there will be no more problems at the border. we just have to find a solution for this transition period, and now we have to change our thinking, because if we think that because of these tactical things... we're ready to flip polish-ukrainian relations are upside down, probably, that's what some people think, then we won't do anything. these complex topics, that is, agriculture, others. in agriculture , grain, wheat, corn, eggs, soft fruits. i am sure that minister sikersky will find a solution to each of these topics. i am

convinced that the problems will be solved. it is only necessary that ukrainian politicians understand why this is happening. this happens not because we are competing with someone, but because it is the same as in ukraine. where there are also elections, this the source of our support, we must have the support to pursue this rather than another policy in our society. held negotiations, agreed with the farmers, and they stopped the protest, then some solutions were found, a consensus, the government promised subsidies to the farmers, less than two weeks passed, and the protest resumed, and it will be like this, because it can be, i will say differently, it can be to be, because this is the case in the european union, this is the case in the west, because if we solve the grain problem, other problems will appear, not all problems are related to the ukrainian issue, there is no point in doing sensationalism from every protest, because protest is the norm in a democratic world and in

a democratic country, it is only necessary to pragmatically solve these problems, some of them can be foreseen, so the big problem of the previous peace government was that they were not able to foresee any the main problems, and others of these problems will arise and disappear by themselves, we will not be able to predict them, they will have to be solved pragmatically, the only thing is that each of these topics did not destroy at all. ukrainian relations, or god forbid, did not cause damage to security, which is of super-strategic importance, because this conversation would look different if, no, i don't want to talk about these worst-case scenarios at all, this conversation would look different, as if the russians had more opportunities in ukraine. so, let's put it this way, this is a conversation for all the years of ukraine's accession to the eu. this is the time for negotiations, for dialogue, above all, and we will probably find a way out, because the security of both our countries depends on it. they say, we will surely find a solution to forget about something, but the point is not that, because these solutions are on the table, and

transport issues can be solved, and so can others, but really, sometimes certain things in politics have to be foreseen, their predecessors in poland simply did not foresee them, but we found them in the state in which they are, and above all in a certain state of social perception , because perception is extremely important in politics, how people perceive this or that issue, and when we look at... for example, exports, it turns out that it is not bad, that there are many jobs in poland that are financed by it, if you add a few to that good investments, it may suddenly turn out that we don't have to repeat this common phrase in poland every time, so that it doesn't happen like in iraq. this phrase in poland means that we helped. we voiced our troops in this case, and then others benefited from it, because this is the mindset that war is always used by someone. i... didn't say that in our case, someone is using war, but during war, a lot of things really

change, and we need to prevent our enemies from playing and winning on these changes. let's talk about the most interesting thing: in kyiv, donald tusk announced that the polish government will appoint a representative for the reconstruction of ukraine, and that it will be pavel koval, all the polish, ukrainian and european media wrote about it. first of all, congratulations and a few words about the new position, did it exist before? similar positions of special representatives can be said on the issue of ukraine exist in the usa,

in germany, it is probably obvious, and it is also necessary in poland, there was someone who will connect these ukrainian affairs, especially in our case, because for us, as it is purely family history, i mean, all the issues that we have are related to ukraine in one way or another, so even from the point of view of such a day-to-day functioning of the prime minister, the prime minister has to have someone who.. . he will speak and whom he will ask about energy, about culture, about exhumations in volyn and about 10 other important topics, polish-ukrainian relations, someone who stays in his head, who deals with this and is able to solve issues quickly, so there is definitely a need in such a role, she must have certain coordination tasks, how it will look in the end, the prime minister will decide, but it will be quick. but the first step...that should be taken is to look at what has already happened in these matters, because it looks like certain

things have already happened, also now we're doing a little inventory of what the previous government did, it's not so easy, because there are many such topics, acute, problematic, and we also need to deal with creating conditions for investors, here the previous government also had good ideas, not all of them were implemented, but there were, there are also issues of intercontainers, that is, energy... and electricity, liquid fuel, and several similar topics, there is also the old topic of sarmatia, that is, odesa, brodyk gdansk, and each of these topics, each of them... you need to look closely at how this situation looks, which the next step should be taken, the prime minister will decide when it will be and what the scope of these works will be, but surely there should be such a person in the government, if only because there are similar positions, similar positions and roles in the government battalions of many western countries, and it makes sense. that is,

pavle, you will remain a deputy and chairman the committee on foreign affairs, it is true, has several formal possibilities. the prime minister will decide and announce in the coming days. how do you see the process of recovery of ukraine? we are talking about the effectiveness of formal decisions. in fact , there will always be a good solution for this mission, and it will definitely be effective. i can promise that. when should the process of rebuilding ukraine begin? now or after the war? it always begins, because the ukrainians are rebuilding what they bombed. i often visit ukraine, so in a sense. literally, reconstruction has already begun, but i think that three aspects must be clarified: first, in a sense, the reconstruction process is ongoing, because no one in ukraine will wait for putin to end the war to rebuild a bridge or house. wherever possible, reconstruction continues, this is a planned activity that is often financed, especially in the first phase,

meaning after february 24, when it was financed by humanitarian aid , that is, reconstruction. needed what was destroyed at the moment. second the question is thoughts about the reconstruction that is expected in the future. and thirdly, i would like to shed light on the question we have to ask ourselves: what does reconstruction mean? in a sense, you need to ask yourself the following question: is reconstruction not something more than just a physical reconstruction of what was destroyed. because ukraine will join the eu at the same time, which means, for example, that we will be talking about energy transformation. ukraine will have to prepare for what is happening in the eu today. also, the third factor that we have to consider when thinking about reconstruction, i would also say modernization and changes, using that, the whole process of reconstruction to make ukraine a little different, for example, when it comes to energy consumption. if we are talking about funds, what financial means can we be talking about here, polish,

european, and what will the money be directed to in the first place? after all, during tusk's visit to kyiv, there was also information that poland would provide financial assistance, direct funds for reconstruction, for what exactly? here you can ask philosophically, what is help, that's why that in the end it may turn out that there are countries richer than poland, they can say that today they give more, but this logic is difficult to accept, not everything is so simple, because poland is the main transit country. country with ukraine. the nearest neighbor. the nearest neighbor. there is this story of 2022. and i believe that this is how we should build our role in participation. poland is also a country that transferred a lot of weapons, sold some as well. so maybe it's time to think about joint projects when it comes to ammunition production. that's why i don't like to talk about here

amounts, because today, fortunately, there are countries in the world that will give larger amounts and have more. munitions to give to ukraine, and thank god our role is to mobilize them, but when we talk about aid, we also have to remember that in politics gratitude is extremely important, even sometimes expressed in words. we'll remember that it was, we'll remember that you did it, and we know that it doesn't count. of course, you can count. the stay of every ukrainian, every ukrainian woman and every ukrainian child in poland. someone can calculate. average cost, but it's not about these calculations, it's about the fact that that aid has already started, it's not something that's just opening up, and that reconstruction support has also already started, because since prime minister donald tusk said that we we create such a position, then endless phone calls began. i turned off my phone for the first time in years because i couldn't

answer all the calls from people wanting to talk about what they wanted to do. and what they would do, so our participation in the reconstruction is a fact, it is simply necessary install additional motors. what can be the role of polish business in this reconstruction? insurance, especially special insurance, which also works during wartime. this is. basically, it already is, and it's very good, it's better than what some western countries can offer. but two is war. and i am talking about this too, it is possible to offer political support, as well as support for polish, american, german or european business, this must be taken into account as far as the style of polish business is concerned. investment funds for to start implementing it, investment funds are like startups, they should be directed for small firms, there are several

options among institutions that are engaged in this, for large ones, probably from the bank, the regional economy, probably because we are at the conceptual stage, so, if someone wants to participate in the business and raise a little more money, they can... also get some money as a contribution to this business, as a share in this business, so it's not just about the financial capacity of the polish companies to investments, we are also talking about additional security, which is what they say is a polish umbrella for these investments. so, first of all, we are talking about construction, infrastructure, energy, infrastructure, we talked, it was announced. such a proposal , i am talking about this, because it has already been publicly stated that there will be a proposal to build a highway in ukraine, so that it will be

for a long time, and then it can be used for commercial purposes and receive income from it, i think that we need, we need to make it sound a few flagship big investments that will be talked about because people should have an idea that there is a lot of small spending and investment and exports are good. is developing in many areas, we just need to completely unblock the border, because the border here is, frankly, the main problem, but for such a process, beacons are always needed, so that people can orient themselves to something, and as we say, helping ukraine, that is, what, that is this, this and this investment, and they will be followed by smaller, other investments. the general budget for the recovery of ukraine - it's 750 billion euros and 10 years, how realistic is it? i am skeptical of these calculations, in my opinion, they are very conditional, if the war ends, there will be a huge dynamic of the development of the ukrainian state and demography, and we will calculate it differently here, so i do not know whether it

is worth tying to some specific calculations that are now 10 years ahead, rather now we need to focus on the mechanisms of what it should look like, so that behind this great reconstruction, let's call it now during the war, this is a great reconstruction or unplanned reconstruction, then it will happen... how to minimize this risk in the case of ukrainian and polish companies? talks will certainly help here, if it is about the fight against corruption, joint procedures, a discussion about what border checks should look like, for example, but in different areas, of course, such a tool to fight corruption will be tako... accession to the eu, but we know that doesn't solve the problem. it is known that this negotiation process itself does not work. of course, anti-corruption investments have

to be part of the system of recovery and modernization of ukraine. there is no doubt about it, because the level of demoralization of people after the war, demoralization in the sense that let me say it another way, the level of war trauma, this word would be more accurate. but also people who are looking for a new job, who do not know what to do with themselves, this will be a source that always after every war objectively feeds corruption or some other social pathologies, so let's think about the reconstruction of ukraine not only in the sense that that we will rebuild what we bombed and destroyed by the russians, but also that these will be things that will slightly change the social approach and will be a factor in social changes. and lastly, 50 billion euros of aid to ukraine from the eu will be considered at a meeting of the european council next week. what to expect from the meeting of the european council on february 1? the

orbán problem is still there, but i think it will be gone by then. thank you and see you next week. now you can watch our conversations on the espresso tv channel. every sunday at 10 p.m. for your attention, our dialogues with pavel koval. i'm maria gurska, goodbye. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next hour , we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. cleaning. crimea, after a devastating attack on the belbek airfield, the armed forces of ukraine sank a russian missile boat. how will the demilitarization of the occupied peninsula continue? pentecostal.

of ukraine. all eu countries unanimously approved the additional support package. what kind did you manage to convince orban with arguments? deferred resignation of the employee. western media predict the imminent dismissal of the head of the armed forces within the next few days. how will it be received in the army and the world? about this and other things. during the next hour, we will talk with our guests, major of the armed forces of ukraine ihor. lapin, retired general ihor romanenko and political expert volodymyr tsibulek. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch a video of how a naval drone strike on the night of february 1 the missile boat ivanovets of the black sea fleet of the russian federation was destroyed. the video of the special operation was released by the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense of ukraine. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please like this video, subscribe to our page and vote in our poll, today we ask you about whether you understand zelensky's claims to zaluzhnyi, yes, no, on youtube is quite simple, either yes or no, or write your comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphones and vote if you understand zelensky's claims to zaluzhny 08. 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. and we already have our first guest, major of the armed forces of ukraine, special forces ihor lapin. mr. major, i welcome you and thank you for joining our broadcast. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes.

major, since we ask. our viewers and tv viewers, regarding whether they understand the claims that president zelensky articulates or presents to the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, valery zaluzhny, i have a fairly simple question for you: do you understand the essence of these claims? of course, i understand, the point is that at least one should look for the cause of the conflict, the primary reason when the conflict appeared. in general, if we speak frankly, it is no longer a secret, the different vision of the elements before the war than that of zaluzhnym and zelensky, it caused the corresponding theses, let’s say, therefore zaluzhnym insisted on the mobilization of the reserve of the first stage, we see that before the start of the full-scale invasion, such a reserve of the first stage was not mobilized. zaluzhny insisted on the deployment of the teroborona forces, the teroborona forces were not deployed,

as a result. zaluzhny insisted on the preparation of defensive structures for war, we built roads, as a result, the first wave of the best infantry in the world, the most motivated, these are the atoshniks, patriots of ukraine, who in principle went to meet unarmed, in fact with hunting carbines, karamaltuks russian occupiers, and some even with molotov cocktails, this first wave of our best infantry was buried in ukrainian land, so the question of the future is answered. whoever takes the first blow will bear it, so what was the first blow? poor training of the armed forces, or incompetent leadership of the army, well, that's all, and you can put an end to this in principle, but having a great fright after the start of a full-scale invasion, all the politicians, all the security forces who fled there, those who fled, i now i do not speak for those who fought heroically, because i know many patrol policemen who were attackers

once, and also... they were the first to enter the battle on the approach.