about today's meeting of the supreme commander-in-chief, goodbye and let's see the verdict. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy ordenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine and the world. about the war and about our victory. today in the program. deferred resignation of the employee. the general criticizes the system of weapons production in ukraine. reasons and consequences of replacing the head of the armed forces. demilitarization of russia. while putin is dreaming about the buffer zone along the border, the armed forces are successfully clearing ukrainian lands and waters of the enemy. unwavering support. the us senate will try to unblock. military aid

to ukraine after the eu allocated 50 billion euros to support the economy. about this and other things, during the next hour we will talk with our guests, they are people 's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine valentyn nalyvaichenko, doctor of political sciences maksym rozumny and director of the center for military and legal research oleksandr musienko. in the second part of our we will have a program that starts in an hour. journalist club bohdan butkevich, oleksiy mustafin and tetiana vysotska will be on our air. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of how soldiers of the 110th separate mechanized brigade dismantled another russian tank for spare parts near avdiivka with the help of a mavic drone. let's see.

friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please like this video, subscribe to our youtube page and participate in our vote, today we ask you about the following: are there problems with freedom of speech in ukraine, yes, no, everything is quite on youtube... simple, and if you

have your opinion, in addition to the answers yes, no, write them under this comment, well those who are currently watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone and vote, if you think there are problems with freedom of speech in ukraine, 0800 211381, no, 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will summarize this. voting and we have our first guest valentin on the phone nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. mr. valentin, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. mr. valentin, let's start with the delayed resignation of zaluzhny, because this is how cnn presents the situation surrounding the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. literally a few minutes ago , a message appeared that... the bid for the supreme

commander-in-chief had ended, but the question of zaluzhnyi's resignation did not arise at this bid for the supreme commander-in-chief commander-in-chief, ranks of the commander-in-chief, the supreme commander-in -chief of the armed forces of ukraine. there were issues of drones, there were issues of shells, the situation at the front, fortification and energy, well, that's about those issues. er, why, er, according to your information, we do not hear any reaction about whether zaluzhny will be removed or not zaluzhny will be removed, because zaluzhny reported to the supreme commander-in-chief about the situation at the front, and frankly speaking, the status of zaluzhny is currently unclear, he will be sent to will there be no resignations? let's start with the chief of... the commander-in-chief of the armed

forces of ukraine, general zaluzhnyi, imagine how for the second day, the third, practically, a wave was raised around him, who made it. no , even now it is not really clear, but to him and the armed forces of ukraine to carry out combat tasks day and night, which they do, and honor and praise to them. i will say that the international reaction yesterday was quite serious and not only in the press, and not so much, regarding possible plans or possible intentions to release zaluzhny, and all international partners of the anti-putin coalition clearly expressed their opposition to the weakening of the vertical in ukraine. whose leadership, and i want to professionally explain on your broadcast, serhiy , that the supreme commander - the president, the commander-in-chief, the general staff and the armed forces, the commanders of the military branches, this is the military vertical of ukraine, it rests on it, on this vertical, no on what

else is the military leadership, the armed forces of all branches of the military, our defense and our counterattacks and every day... the operations of our military, therefore to pull out one component from this vertical, from this rod is to collapse the sheared vertical, it is not in our interests to do so, moreover, it does not correspond to our national defense and security interests, and thirdly, what i have already said and confirm, international partners too against the fact that in ukraine suddenly suddenly at the pleasure of someone, well, except for the aggressor, it is not beneficial to anyone, by the way. to suddenly weaken the military vertical, this is no joke, i am a professional person, i tell you that this is not bureaucracy, it is not officials, not the government, no, you know, deputies, this is a military command, and there the vertical must be reinforced concrete, which works, and

the last thing, before appointing any military leader and after the appointment , the main criterion for his suitability or non-suitability for the position is the trust of the military themselves... employees, troops , from the platoon, company, battalion, brigade, and so on, trust in this commander, if there is such trust, then they will follow him and go into battle with him, if not, then nothing will happen, the hard-working man has such trust, has a steel character, and in the interests of ukraine, ours defense interests, for this military command to work, and today there was a bet, indeed, among five questions, one of the questions was reported by the commander-in-chief, general zaluzhnyi, and this... it is good and firm, and such strength must be preserved, at least in the military leadership mr. valentin, but why in this case, when the entire world press writes , citing their sources in the ukrainian government, about the possibility of such a resignation, because the washington post, and the time, and the economist,

and the financial times are quite serious publications, they will never publish any information that would be of such a tabloid nature, that is... they have serious sources, they always take the dissemination of such information seriously, why, after the appearance of such information, volodymyr zelenskyy did not make at least some minimal statement that the government is political, and the military in ukraine is as united as ever, that we all go together to victory and that there are no problems, and what appears outside ukraine, or let's say, even in ukraine, is part of the information there. no-psychological special operation, u what is russia interested in? i do not know why the president of ukraine did not do this, i will tell you that the most important thing for our tv viewers to understand is that it is clear that it is not the case at the rate meetings, and in the command itself, and even in

the general staff, you know that we drank tea with sugar or without sugar, everything was fine, we smiled and parted, no, there is a war going on, and there are definitely quite heated discussions before... quite painful decisions have to be made every day and every night, there are painful losses, there are, but the main thing is victory, victories and desire and understanding how to move on, and by the way, yesterday, you mentioned cnn, yesterday cnn had an article by zaluzhny, general zaluzhny, about how he sees the approaches of new warfare, warfare with new technologies, our commander-in-chief sees, and by the way, realistically. reaction to this position of general zaluzhnyi in the world is very positive, our international partners from the anti-putin coalition did not just read it, they perceived it as: well, the ukrainians know what to do, the military team in ukraine knows what to do, and by the way, today’s rate under chaired by

the president of ukraine, zelensky confirms, that the entire leadership of ukraine, the entire stake , takes care of these issues and deals with them, well, you mentioned them in passing, let's do it again... we will remind, the production of drones in ukraine, the production of artillery shells in ukraine and international supplies, fortifications , here more to the government really a question, but in my opinion, when the military leader, the commander-in-chief, has a plan, has understanding, and most importantly, modern approaches to protect ukraine and expel the aggressor from our territory, he is the commander-in-chief that our armed forces need and need to us, ukraine. well, maybe today in his evening address, volodymyr zelenskyi will mention, including the situation with the personnel in the armed forces of ukraine, because... after all, questions remain regarding valery zaluzhny, and i don’t know how he

personally feels, but there is a feeling that this is an unfinished story, i.e. it is unfinished, but postponed in time, because we periodically see this story in various modifications, whether through people's deputy maryana bezuglu or through people's deputies from the servant of the people, that is, constantly, constantly this tension. which one obviously there is, and it cannot but be, because there is a war, and it is clear that everyone is on their nerves, everyone is nervous, everyone understands that a lot is at stake, not only the political future of one figure or another figure, but statehood is at stake ukraine, the future of the ukrainian people and our victory, and here in this case, god grant that everyone will have enough sense to understand that the future of all of us depends on... their unity, mr. valentyn, i will say very briefly only about

the deputies, serhiy , deputies need to be less nervous, work harder and do more support the armed forces of ukraine. point. absolutely true. over the past few weeks, we have been observing the success of the special operation of the main intelligence directorate of the ministry of defense of ukraine. this week, a russian missile was struck. kyrylo budanov told about it, this missile boat was a rather serious combat unit, and was armed with four missile systems and could hit targets in a radius of up to 130 km, in parallel with this, the air force of ukraine struck the bilbek airfield. nome crimea, where they eliminated the russian general oleksandr tytarenko, well

, you see, a russian general with a ukrainian surname. by the way, russian media reports that two missiles hit the command post of the 38th fighter aviation regiment, and another missile attacked the airfield's communication point. the russians acknowledged the impact of three planes and the death of personnel . given our success in the south. direction in the crimean direction, does this mean, mr. valentin, that the main efforts of the defense forces of ukraine are directed precisely to crimea, because crimea is the sore point of both putin and the russian army in general, without which , in fact, all their other plans in ukraine will fall apart, it really is, it is... the most painful place of the aggressor and putin personally, and the special operations of military intelligence and

the ministry defenses, which had a really significant success on the territory of the temporarily occupied crimea, this is really what demoralizes the enemy, demoralizes the entire occupation that they have tried to establish there over the years, and moreover, puts into great doubt how much more they will succeed there meanwhile... hang on. i predict and say that the more high-precision weapons and the efficiency of such special operations will increase , not only of military intelligence, but also of the armed forces of ukraine. and this will lead to further more sensitive and painful blows to the aggressor on the territory of the temporarily occupied crimea and in the waters of the black and azov seas. this is a strategically important direction for us. at the same time, i would not say that for... the armed forces of ukraine and indeed for our entire defense, the focus has shifted only to the south. really tough fights,

the situation is difficult in the avdiyiv direction, in the maryansky direction, the kharkiv direction is tense, and there our armed forces are heroically holding on, repelling even what the enemy or aggressor sometimes manages to capture temporarily. this is not an easy combat job, and i will say that the whole front now, it is more than 1000 km, is not... easy for the armed forces of ukraine, especially during such weather conditions, but we must give credit that the more modern weapons arrive, the stronger and more effective. our troops, our armed forces manage to hold the defense and move into counteroffensive. well, in the meantime, the chief of the general staff of the armed forces of romania, georgitsavlad, believes that romanians should prepare for the possible spread of russian aggression, since putin will resort to escalation in case of victory in ukraine. let's listen to what

the head of the general staff of the armed forces of romania said? the population of romania, like the entire population of the european union, should be worried and we should take appropriate measures to be prepared. personally, i do not necessarily think, as a military man, that the russian federation will not stop there. if he wins in ukraine, the main target will be the republic of moldova. we will witness tensions in the western balkans. i am more than sure that president putin will resort to escalation. at the same time, the prime minister of romania, marchal cholaku, called for calm. romania will not join any war, he emphasized. well, the question here is not whether romania will enter the war or not, whether russia will enter the war with romania? let's start with the main thing, that romania is also a

nato member country, and all nato member countries, and there are now 32 of them, 32 sweden will eventually join the alliance, all nato member states have understood that russia is not just a potential threat, but an actual one: all nato member states have understood that it is necessary to update and renew weapons, ammunition to protect their territory, and thirdly, all nato countries not only understood, right now, today, including conducting combat exercises, there are a lot of large numbers of troops, including naval forces. air force, various nato member countries, but along the entire russian border, and i'll tell you what starting from finland, in the north , to romania in the south, this entire flank of nato understands that russia is a real threat and is an aggressor, therefore, by the way, the anti-putin coalition has the most serious support from

these countries for us, for ukraine, and for the armed forces ukraine, they all clearly understand the strategic, military dimension. if ukraine resists, if this flank of nato resists, if otherwise, then their chances are extremely minimal, and escalation and indeed, possible aggression will only continue, but all this encourages our partners to help us, to help more, and you see how european countries, nato member countries , which are located in europe, help, approve budgets and will help all this year in that... our defense, our armed forces, to produce more weapons, supply us with air defense, and i think that next week at the exit we are waiting, including the decision of the us congress, and this is already serious, and this is already for the whole year ahead such serious support for the armed forces of ukraine, for repelling of russian aggression from our borders, and from yes and from

nato and eu borders. mr. valentin , can you, as a professional, explain how it happened that europe did not expect such a big war with ukraine, and what the readiness of europeans for such a war, or rather the lack of readiness for such a war, is evidenced by the lack of that amount of weapons, that amount of ammunition, and that is, they are now trying to make up for it very quickly, did their intelligence and their analytical data not calculate such an option, i think that this is the case. a huge problem and a huge mistake, because their and intelligence and the european, first of all, and nato special services did not fully calculate that such russian aggression is possible, that such a use by the aggressor russia putin of such a large number of missiles, bombs, and artillery

weapons, starting not only from their own territory, but from the territory of the republic of belarus, i remind you, that... there was no invasion from the territory of two countries , russia and belarus, against us, it was something that was miscalculated and they admitted it, and we clearly understand, but now i will tell you that the situation has fundamentally changed, no one has not doubts, does or does not do, they take and do, no one doubts whether to support ukraine or not, they take and support. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation, it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's... deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook. please like this video to promote it in the trends of these platforms, and vote in our survey, today we ask you about whether there are problems with freedom

of speech in ukraine, yes, no, everything is quite simple in youtube , if you are sitting in front of the tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that in ukraine has problems with freedom of speech, 0800 211 381, no 0800, 211 300. 82, all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we will be in touch with maksym rozumny, political expert, doctor of political sciences. mr. maxim, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. the evening is really good, because the stake of the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine has ended, the issue of the resignation of the stalwart from the post of chief commissar. the zsu was not there, zaluzhny himself reported on the situation at the front, but over the past five days we

witnessed a fairly massive information attack, or the active dissemination of this information about zaluzhny's possible resignation. we are talking not only about ukrainian social networks or the ukrainian environment, but also about the world. media that wrote about what is actually fate zaluzhnogo has already been decided, you, as a political expert, how do you perceive all these dances around the possible resignation of zaluzhnogo, who in this situation should put an end to these dances, and in what way should people calm down, well, at least think a little about the future of ukraine. well, of course, those who have some, some insider information from the bowels of the president's office, from the national

security council, from the defense, they could probably give a more accurate answer, i can only have versions, the first version, well, so-so bad for ukraine, and it says that... zelenskyi, his team has great, so to speak, jealousy of a political nature, jealousy of the popularity of valery zaluzhny, and in connection with this, they really made a decision to eliminate from such a popular position, in which he is, in this position of commander-in-chief, he can strengthen his authority and remain influential, so to speak, as an actor in the domestic, including the political arena, perhaps, if this is so, then it's bad, and

bad in many ways, the first is that bad for the morale of the ukrainian people, that is, zaluzhny became one of the symbols of the ukrainian resistance and one of the symbols of our hopes that we... will be able to overcome this rush to the fact that we are successful, that we are strong, that that we are smarter and so on , well, actually, zaluzhny confirms not only by his actions, even by his theoretical statements, which he publishes there in recent articles, uh, on the one hand, on the other hand, it is bad for the president's team, the team of the current the ruling team, because in ukrainian politics there is... there are many precedents, well, actually, not many, but there are precedents when such an attempt to eliminate a political competitor, in fact, he has never declared his political ambitions,

this is such a conspiracy in the bowels of the president's office, if it exists, well, we remember how there entered the political arena, first yevhen marchuk, then viktor yushchenko, but after such high-profile resignations, they actually became political. figures, that is, it is bad and for them too it can end in a political sense, not to mention how much it can to disorganize and demoralize the ukrainian army, i would say so, the team, the team of our victory, i would call it that, but the other version is that this is a kind of political-technological games that supposedly free, supposedly do not. they throw in one piece of information, another piece of information, there was information about there, well , the last one, this is the last drop there about the

abuse of an alcoholic. there, we remember these posts by one deputy about this, that is, there is systematic discrediting, that is, it is not, not so, not a disruption of the situation, not not a resignation, not a collapse, but some such, perhaps even more dangerous, successive destruction of authority, bringing the person himself to a kind of insecurity, to a decrease in charisma'. integrity, and this is also bad for the country and for the states, well, you correctly mentioned marchuk and yushchenko, because in principle, well, there was a similar scenario somewhere, kuchma, however, did it much faster and lightning-fast in terms of resignations, that is, he is very i did not think about it, in this situation, i understand that the current team, it focuses on sociology and on... well, they

look at everything in a cinematic way, that is, they they measure every day, make some sociological measurements and move forward accordingly, you mentioned that zaluzhnyi did not declare his political ambitions, but if this resignation happens, regardless of what mariana bezugla wrote about him, i i think that 90% of people do not even know what it is about. bezugla about zaluzhnyi, i think that in a situation where zaluzhnyi will be removed from office, he will already be a competitor of zelenskyi in the political field, i am not even talking about the presidency, because again, we do not know which of zaluzhnyi a political leader, we don't know what kind of presidential candidate he might be there, we know that he is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, that he is fulfilling his task, there is still an army...

which he leads, and for two years he has proven himself as a good commander-in-chief, or is it at all important now to talk about whether one of the leaders of the people's trust will be worthy there, because the rating is political, it depends on the people's trust, or whether he will have outside the armed forces, or whether the trust rating for a worthy leader is a trust rating for armed forces well, yes, we are talking on such a hypothetical level, but since this has already been written about by quite authoritative, western sources with significant access to information, from the president's office, from the president's entourage, i think that the probability that in that or another way, they will try to remove the hard worker from

leadership positions. any, it is quite large, so this hypothetical situation, it looks very convincing, and therefore it is worth considering, yes, we can say that if there is such a gambit, such an exchange figures, and zaluzhny will find himself outside his natural position as the commander -in-chief of the ukrainian armed forces, then... he will inevitably, due to many circumstances , become, well, if he does not personally make a very strong resistance, then he will one way or another become an opposition politician, in fact, marchuk did not plan to become a public politician either, he himself became the prime minister, and somehow yushchenko was working there, yushchenko was nominated

to... was pushed into politics, he had no other way out, but the most important thing is that there are great expectations , that is, what i am today i see in the information space, in social networks, there is a very big demand for a diligent politician, and they will not let him stay somewhere in the shadows, his, his, actually, his potential electorate, his potential group of social... support, she will force him to engage in politics, well, we must remember that the same marchuk, he went into politics, that is, into politics, no, when he was the prime minister of ukraine, but he went into his political activity under the slogan of the third force, the country needs a third force, a strong hand, i.e. a general who is ready to go to the end, however, he didn't go all the way, because in 99

it all looked a little... different, didn't it?