i remind you that a full-scale invasion took place from the territory of two countries , russia and belarus, against us, this is something that they did not calculate, they also recognized this, and we clearly understand, but now i will tell you that the situation has fundamentally changed, no one has no one doubts whether to do or not to do, they take and do, no one doubts whether to support ukraine or not, they take and support. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation, it was valentin nalyvai. people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. friends, we work directly broadcast on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please like this video so that it can be trended on those platforms. well, vote in our poll. today we ask you about the following: are there problems with freedom of speech in ukraine? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you... sit in front of the tv, pick up

your smartphone or phone and vote if you think there are problems with freedom in ukraine words, 0821 381, no 0800, 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we will be in touch with maksym rozumny, political expert, doctor of political sciences. mr. maxim, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, a really good evening, because the position of the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine has ended, the question of zaluzhny's resignation from the position of the head of the armed forces was not there, zaluzhny himself reported on the situation at the front, but over the past five days, we have witnessed a fairly massive information attack or... the active dissemination of this information

about the possible resignation of the employee, we are talking not only about ukrainian social networks or the ukrainian environment, but also about the world media, which wrote about the fact that in fact the fate of the zaluzhny has already been decided, you, as a political expert, how do you perceive all these dances around the possible resignation of the zaluzhny - who in this situation should put an end to these dances, and in what way should people have calm down, well, at least think a little about the future of ukraine. well, of course, uh, those who have some, some inside information from within the office of the president, uh, from the national security council, defense, they could probably give a... uh, a more accurate answer,

in there can only be versions of me, uh , the first version, well, it’s kind of bad for ukraine, and it says that president zelenskyi and his team have great, so to speak, jealousy of a political nature, jealousy of valery’s popularity deserving, and in connection with this they really made a decision to remove him from... er, well, such a popular position in which he is, in which in this position of commander-in-chief, he can strengthen his authority and remain an influential, so to speak, figure in the domestic, including the political arena, er , maybe if this is so , then it is bad, and bad from many points of view, firstly, it is bad for... the morale

of the ukrainian people, that is, zaluzhny has become one of the symbols of the ukrainian resistance and one of the symbols of our hopes that we will be able to overcome this rush, to the fact that we are successful, to the fact that we are strong, to the fact that we smarter and so on, and zaluzhny, in fact, confirms this not only by his actions, but also by his theoretical statements, which he publishes there in recent articles. on the one hand, on the other hand, it is also bad for the president's team, the team of the current ruling team, because there are many precedents in ukrainian politics, well, actually, not many, but there are precedents when such an attempt to eliminate a political competitor, actually zaluzhno never declared his political ambitions, this is such a conspiracy in the bowels of the office of the president, if there is one. well, we remember how

entered the political arena there, first yevhen marchuk, then viktor yushchenko, but after such high-profile resignations, they actually became politicians. figures, that is, it is bad and for them it can also end in a political sense , not to mention how much it can disorganize and demoralize the ukrainian army, i would say so, the team, the team of our victory, i would call it that, here is another version lies in the fact that these are such political-technological games that allegedly release, allegedly... do not release, throw in one information, another information, there was information about there , well, the last one, this is the last drop there about the fact that he abuses alcohol, there we remember these posts by one deputy about it, that is, there is

systematic discrediting, that is, it is not, not, not , not such a disruption of the situation, not a resignation , not a collapse, but... some such, perhaps even more dangerous, successive destruction of authority, bringing the person himself to a kind of insecurity, to a decrease in his charisma, and this is also bad for the country and for the states, well you correctly mentioned marchuk and yushchenko, because in principle, well, they are somewhat similar the scenario was, kuchma, however, did it much... faster and lightning-fast with regard to resignations, that is, he did not think much about it, in this situation, i understand that the current team, it focuses on sociology and on, well, they - the cinematographers watch everything, that is, they measure every day

, make some sociological measurements, and in accordance with this, they go forward, you mentioned that zaluzhnyi did not declare his flights. political ambitions, but if this resignation takes place, regardless of what mariana wrote about him there, i i think that 90% of people do not even know what bezugla wrote about zaluzhny, i think that in a situation where zaluzhny is removed from office, he will already be a competitor of zelensky in the political field, i am not even talking about the presidency, because , again, we don't know who the political leader is, we don't know what kind of presidential candidate he might be, we know that he is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, that he is fulfilling his task, there is still an army that , which he manages, and for two years he has proven himself to be good

commander-in-chief, is it even important now to talk about whether one of the leaders of the people's... trust will be there, because the rating is political, it depends on the people's trust, whether he will be outside the armed forces, or whether the trust rating of the person is a rating confidence in the armed forces? well, yes, we are talking on such a hypothetical level, but since this has already been written about by quite authoritative, western sources from uh, who have significant access to information from... uh, actually from the president's office, from the president's entourage, i think that the probability the fact that in one way or another they will try to remove a person from any leadership positions, it is quite large, so this hypothetical situation, it looks very

convincing, and therefore it is worth considering, so we can say that in if there is such a gambit, such a change of figure, and zaluzhny finds himself outside his natural position as the commander-in-chief of the ukrainian armed forces, then he will be forced by many circumstances to become, well, if he does not personally make a very strong resistance, then he one way or another will become oppositional a politician actually, marchuk didn't plan to become a public politician either, he became the prime minister himself, and somehow yushchenko was working there, yushchenko was nominated, pushed into politics, he had no other way out, but

the most important thing is that there are great expectations, i.e. what i see today in the information space, in social networks, there is a very... great demand for a diligent politician, and he will not be allowed to remain somewhere in the shadows, his, his, actually, his potential electorate, his potential group. social support, she he will be forced to engage in politics, and we must remember that the same marchuk, he went into politics, specifically into politics, not when he was the prime minister of ukraine, but specifically into his political activities, under the slogan of the third force, the country needs a third force , a strong hand, that is, a general who is ready to go to the end, although he did not go to the end, because in 1999 it all looked a little different, if you can say , mr. maksym,

about the fact that mr. zaluzhnyi already has conditional political power, because the people who fight, so or otherwise, they identify themselves as some kind of force, a separate force that is not political, it is clear that the army and politics are different things, especially during ... war, but still these people who, who can to be this basis for the future, for zaluzhny's future foray into politics, it is not known when, when this force may appear, it is not known when the elections will be held, it is not known when zaluzhny will be able to protest this, or his entourage, but is it possible to predict that such a project, it is on time, and again, it is again a rating. trust those who fight, well in general, this is normal, if you take the world

, global experience, yes, recent history, including in different countries, then this is a classic of the genre, that is, a popular general enters politics with his team, uh, and so to speak, uh- er, the military, security forces, er, are beginning to play a leading role in flying in the political arena, but this is typical. after all, well, let's say , not very developed countries, this is characteristic of young democracies, which are unlikely to become democracies, that is, for ukraine it is very uncharacteristic, er, military, actually, actually, the military elite in our country has never been a political subject, unlike, for example, the same turkey, where since the time of ataturk, the military has been a very... influential, very influential corporation, with which only now somewhere

erdogan began to cope there 100 years after they strengthened and established their positions. this is not the case in ukraine. therefore , answering the question directly, it seems to me that in his professional environment, zaluzhny is unlikely to find his political team. it is certain that it will be structuring by traditional ukrainian political cleavages, as it is called in political science, or divisions, and a certain part of the ukrainian political administrative, business elite, which, well , which has traditional methods, traditional interests and traditional political positioning, will simply bet on it, that is, i see exactly this is... the most likely scenario, it is unlikely to be a gathering of generals, i would say so. next week,

mr. maksym, the verkhovna rada of ukraine should start considering the updated draft law about mobilization, the issue of mobilization is called one of those cornerstones that prevented zelensky and zaluzhny from finding common points of contact there. zaluzhnyi, they say, wanted to mobilize and was called. the number of people they wanted to recruit for the army was 500,000, in fact, the same zaluzhny spoke about the fact that it would not be instantaneous, that it would be stretched over time, but one thing is clear now, that the bill on mobilization, it will be quite difficult for zelensky himself, because if he does not take participation and will not be the leader of this process, as the supreme... commander-in-chief, then a lot of questions arise for him, as the supreme commander-in-chief, precisely for

the supreme commander-in-chief, because this is his sphere of competence, if he will think about his political future and will be with something will happen to this law that will not allow it to be put into effect, i don't know, it may simply be that this law is not signed, like the unsigned law on lowering the age threshold for those who are mobilized, i.e. from 27 to 25, this law also not signed by zelensky, to what extent is this political expediency or impropriety on the part of the president. command will affect the mobilization, and accordingly the course of the russian-ukrainian war, because we understand that the finalization, or shall we say the intermediate finalization, of the russian-ukrainian war depends on it? mr. maksym, in general, this whole story with this

draft law and the story with this concept of mobile. and so on, it raises a lot of questions, that is, when it all started, i had a question, well, could it be worse to make this whole company in this way, in terms of information, than the way it was done, that is , at first there were videos about how tsc employees there grab people on the street, push them into buses, and that is, at first it went... the tsc imitation, then with "rumors appeared about some draconian norms of the future law, they spread at the level of rumors, then a discussion began between zelenskyi and zaluzhny, that is , it is difficult to imagine the worst scenario of promoting or selling such a law to society.

the question also arises regarding the necessity that is... well, as you know, mobilization was announced in our country on february 24, 2022, and no one interfered or forbade the next waves of mobilization, that is, there are different ones, we were always explained that there is a strategy, certain specialties, and so on and so on, there is a certain plan, and then suddenly everything is suspended, everything depends on the adoption of some law. in which there are very ambiguous norms that either will work or will not work, all this is more similar, if you sum it up to some kind of political technology, who launched such political technology, and to what it is, to what it leads our society, i still

do not clearly see, that is, it is either a ready lowering of society's expectations. this should not be the case, well, we remember how we all thought about the great victory that was about to come, about our huge superiority over the russians on the battlefield and so on, but this is the story with this mobilization, it seems to me , very significantly lowered expectations in ukrainian society and so on, and perhaps even brought us closer to peace negotiations or to another method of freezing. of the conflict, well, this is such a conspiracy theory, but what can be said is already on the surface today , it is actually the last article of general zaluzhnyi in the economist, which spread through cnn and was later

quoted a lot in social networks, says that we need technological advantage, we need a technological... breakthrough, and to some extent this is already a shift of attention and a shift of emphasis from mobilization to the defense industry, let's say so, so how will this situation develop with the law on mobilization and how will it be connected, for example, with the history of the relationship between zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi, today it is difficult to say, but we can already see a certain plot... gate, i would say so, in this story, and perhaps this draft law will not have such a fateful character as it seemed to us a month ago ago. thank you, mr. maksym, it was maksym rozumny, political expert, doctor of political sciences. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who

are currently watching us there. please put like this video and also subscribe to ours. pages on these platforms , in addition, throughout our broadcast we conduct surveys, we ask you about such things as whether there are problems with freedom of speech in ukraine, what do you think, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes no, or write your comment in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone and vote, everything is quite simple, if you think that such problems exist in ukraine, 0800 211 38... no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end program, we will sum up the results of this vote further on in our contact oleksandr musi. director of the center for military legal studies. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. i congratulate you. this week passed under the sign of general

zaluzhnyi. it is not known whether he will go into politics or not in the future. but the fact that we see support, both in social networks and in the society of general zaluzhny, probably indicates that... that the rating of trust in zaluzhny is the rating of trust in the armed forces of ukraine. today there was a bet supreme commander-in-chief. zaluzhnyi spoke there, reported on the situation at the front, as reported by the office of the president of ukraine, the supreme commander-in-chief did not consider his resignation. in your opinion, is this resignation delayed or will this resignation not happen? or after testing, conventionally speaking, informational testing of the society, it's just that the commander-in-chief will simply refuse

it, well, i will say that i do not understand the hype around the bet from the beginning, because the bet is not authorized to consider these issues, and the president does not need the opinion of the bet in order to make one or another decision, that is , it is already a matter of legislation and... their accuracy, i think that it was heated because it was brought under what is under the event of the bet and what is there should the president go ahead and announce that i'm changing the commander in chief, i don't think that's going to happen at the end of the day, so actually that's an open question, i think, to some extent, because let's just say , i think there's some disagreement in terms of further management approaches. hostilities and to the concept of these hostilities, and in general to the assessment of the campaign, how it should be based on the resources we currently have, or on which we count on, and so on, a whole set

of issues, perhaps on these issues we will understand and come to an agreement absolutely the president of ukraine and volodymyr zelenskyi, and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, general zaluzhnyi, well, the fact is that, let's say, these disagreements are certain. from the point of view that they sometimes arise even in the public plane, it is noticeable, in fact, and it is just as noticeable with from the point of view of some military-political assessments of the situation and so on, so i think that this question is still open, for what time it is really difficult to say, whether in the short term or in the longer term, for today this intrigue is possible in a certain way is preserved, although i think that it is possible that she will leave the information space somewhere, but here the question is, you understand, here is not only a question of resignation or not resignation, here is a question

of understanding, assessing the situation and moving in the same direction, that's what it is important, that is, unity extremely important, because there may be no resignation, but if there is a situation of misunderstanding and disagreement on certain fundamental issues, that is not the best either. kind of interaction and cooperation, as it seems to me, but if , let's say, we look at this situation, there is a civilian leadership, a political leadership, there is a military leadership, well, during a war, in principle, apparently, the military leadership has greater competence than the civilian , the question is not within the competence, well, in order to assess whether the married person is doing it right or wrong, the question is that if we move... to nato, then i want to remind you that what some military people do not like, i know it is not very impressive when we have the role of the ministry of defense or something else, but this is how our legislation is written

in accordance with nato standards. if we want a different system, we want a management system and, for example, there, as in russia or in other states, then we must clearly say that we abandon the goal of joining the north atlantic alliance. decision-making, you see, is a very... complicated thing from the point of view that for all actions, for any actions, the first person will always be responsible person, the supreme commander, and on his shoulders all responsibility, both civil and military, whatever it may be and so on, and because, of course, understanding and evaluating the complex of this responsibility, and certain decisions are made, or not made, well but strictly speaking, this is also a question of delimiting the function of power. and i want to say that those who say that there is a military that understands, i want to tell you, there are historical examples that ... do not always testify in

favor of the management of military affairs of the state, the management of military affairs, yes, but of the entire state, the examples are different. let 's go back to what is happening in russia now, because these internal expectations and internal discussions around the military leadership of ukraine are distracting us from what putin himself is declaring, because this week he announced that... he will create a demilitarized zone between russia and ukraine, and the state department of the united states of america, reacting to the idea of ​​a russian dictator, stated that for this russia needs to demilitarize the occupied parts of ukraine. let's listen to this statement. there is no such statement, i am told. the very fact.

what putin says is a demilitarized zone that will protect russian cities and russian territory from the shots of the armed forces of ukraine, from missiles, from drones, everything else, but on the other hand, mr. oleksandr, if we are going to have long-range missiles, then this it turns out that the demilitarized zone will be the size of the whole of ukraine, well, yes, well, this is, strictly speaking, and... there is an aspiration, that is, putin has once again confirmed his goals of military of an aggressive war campaign against ukraine, that demilitarization is needed, that is, he does not deviate from this, moreover, well, in general , i connect this statement right now with the following three points: nevertheless, please note that reuters admits that as strikes of ukrainian drones for two weeks reduce

russian exports. of the oil and oil and gas industry, it is important, and this is an assessment by reuters, that is, this assessment is not only ours, that is, it is an assessment of a neutral party in general, that is, a neutral party, and that is why i think it is important moment, they began to train russia, and in this way putin recognizes the increase in ukrainian capabilities and capabilities already in striking, that is, the increase in the capabilities of our defense forces, which... a successful strategy to strike the russian oil and gas industry, their industry in general, and therefore that i well remember putin's reaction to the strikes at that time, remember, in may 23, they tried to attack the kremlin spire and so on, well, he said so, well, i think, something flew there and so on, he did not say nothing else, you can see here, it's them it hurt, and you can see that these questions are being asked, they

arose topically. this is the first moment , the second moment, it seems to me that putin used this factor to say, look, well, war is like a defensive one in our country, we have to defend ourselves, we have to defend ourselves all the more, because drones are being fired at us , so let's families in danger and let's consolidate and continue, well , this is just against the background of the election campaign, the statement that, well, we will continue to work on demilitarization. create demilitarized zone and so on and so forth , that is, in this direction there are three components that , actually, i think, explain it, but first, in the first place, this is what i would say, this is putin's statement, this confirmation that the strikes on their oil and gas facilities are a movement in the right direction, which means that this trajectory must be followed, the commander-in-chief

of the armed forces. valery zaluzhnyi of ukraine, in his column for cnn, emphasized the problems with ammunition at the front, in particular due to the imperfect system of weapons production in to ukraine, zaluzhny wrote: we remain limited by the imperfection of the regulatory and legal framework in our country, as well as the partial monopolization of the defense industry, this leads to bottlenecks in production, for example, ammunition, which further deepens ukraine's dependence on allies in matters. supplies, and ukraine has informed its allies that it is facing a critical shortage of artillery shells, as russia uses three times more firepower on the front every day , bloomberg writes. question munitions, the issue of weapons, is relevant enough in 2024, no less than the issue of mobilization or the issue of the future commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, observing the latter. we are

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