the russians will not be able to keep the occupied territories in peace, but it will also be difficult to de-occupy them, and therefore it is necessary to consider various other diplomatic options there, well, maybe it is the same modernization, but with the conclusion that it is too early to negotiate, because the very fact that these the territory cannot be held by the russians, it will force them to change their policy, well... the message is difficult to convey, well, but in the end, as our first president said, we have what we have, against the background of this, can it be , relatively speaking, after all a coordinated step with our american partners, because we know that our analytical structures, american structures, are currently engaged in the process of developing a new look for the ukrainian army and new approaches to conducting military operations with a focus on technology.

on asymmetric approaches, and actually this language, which is presented in zaluzhnyi's article with the word effects as a reference, for example, because effects are precisely the conduct of combat operations with the achievement of an effect - these are actually elements from the american concept of conduct of combat actions, which now actually dominates in the american theoretical environment, can we really consider that this is an echo of those requests to ukraine, what will be your war strategy there or what will be the strategy. victory, and this article says, the strategy will be like this, relying on such decisions, on such technological approaches, which are in principle consistent with the vision of american experts, who, well, could also be related to such developments, there may be such a version, or you see it in a different way, well , of course, here everything is consistent with what, what sounds from our partners, in general, the discussions that are going on now. a discussion

about how long it is necessary to be in active defense before the start of a new phase of funding , or a whole year, and then, but all this is in principle agreed, i would also say here, well, if you look at it this way, is this not a new development of the new military theories, i will remind you that in the 90s appeared, the united states started this trend, which is now worldwide, planning is based on the potentials before ... looked at different scenarios, and then the united states the states understood that when there are many uncertainties, it is necessary to find such stable or stable, as they say now, potentials that will always be needed for anyone, for any scenario, so this purely military theory, planning based on potentials, has also become a political theory , very quickly, i do not rule out that the same military theory appears now: planning is based

or the conduct of hostilities is based on effects, well, i do not rule out that there is such an opinion, well , check, test certain military theories, but in general, there is nothing here that does not agree with what is basically being heard from our partners, it is just interesting why, why it is so difficult and why everything, it is interesting from the point of view of a politician, but i think that if experts everything this... will be read, and i'm talking about myself, i think if i read it, i'll see this meaning, specifically military, but here's why, why in the fall and why, why is it so difficult, well here you can only think for now, well really , because for me these questions also remained unanswered, that is, actually conceptual the article is good, written in a complex way, for understanding it is accessible to experts who know the entire background of changes in the approaches to fighting. their actions, and for some reason, let's put it this way, there is

a question of whether there were political insurance factors in it after all, that in particular there is a question about the removal of zaluzhny, about his replacement there, and then zaluzhny, conditionally speaking, somehow trolls those politicians who believe that conducting hostilities is a simple matter, that you can come to the battlefield, distribute tasks, and there the military will run forward, he wants it is possible to raise the level of the discussion to such a... level that this white noise related to the fact that it is simple to fight, that it still moves to the side, and then the conduct of hostilities really comes to the fore, as an art that also requires a certain potential, and certain knowledge and certain opportunities, in a certain way, of course, well here it is difficult not to notice that there is such and such a correlation, that processes are taking place. in

ukraine, and there is already a look into the political future, who will be who after this war, and something is already happening, well, if we go back closer to the military... then if you believe what the foreign media write, they write that the meaning of the current discussion between the political and military authorities is that the military will say: give us half a million people and give us material resources in order to to change the situation on the battlefield, and the political authorities answer: you will not have half a million, because ukraine is tired, find... or we will find others who will revive the situation on the battlefield, and the answer goes on, well, if there are no people, let's , let's work with technologies and find new options , but there is still such a message here, well, the problem is fundamental, if, if there are no people on

the battlefield, if the mobilization of half a million is a certain problem, then anyone on the battlefield will not change anything, and if the task ... of the political power is to change the war without moving the front, then the existing military leadership, which already has experience, can also do it, but then we need to set the task: well, let's say publicly that people on there will be no more on the battlefield, it is necessary to work with what is there, well, there is a little bit of rotation and to find other options and that, that military leadership, that... the system of military leadership that has already developed in these two years, it can cope with it, i do not rule out, that such a signal also exists, well, at least in such and such a form that our partners understand it, they are no longer interested in dealing with who does not like whom in ukraine and

who does what, they need the system to work, someone should explain that with the mobilization of the problem, they already know it, what will you do, well, they explain what they need to do, but again the question remains, why in cnn and why is it so difficult, well , maybe there was no other form, well, then the question is what to do? in any case, these are technological approaches, they are conceptually correct in essence, but in order for them to work, a certain period of time is needed, when they will give an effect to the situation on the front line, we will now have such a certain ... opportunity gap, when in we lack the basic tools to maintain the situation on the front line, and then arises the question is, what do you think about the arrival of american aid to these political decisions, is there a risk that they will be dragged out

for so long that it will really create significant problems for our line of defense where it now passes, well, now we have to save , in principle, i think that as far as ammunition is concerned, and well , ammunition, what is being produced now has basically been paid for a long time ago, and here it does not depend so much on the current decision-making, the current decision-making is precisely calculated for further technologies , which will make it possible to decisively bring the war to victory, in order to get, well , you need old weapons, you need old weapons to get the situation at the... front, but i understand that, apart from getting the situation at the front and waiting, when the defense industry in europe and the united states, regarding the production of old weapons that they did not plan to produce already, or they

will raise production to the levels that ukraine needs, i think this should happen by the end of the year, but by the end of the year have to live and now we need to find these old ones. calibers , or i, or the idea comes up, or give us your old weapon, the a10 is quite suitable for compensating for the lack of ammunition in the battle, it’s better than the su-25, you have a lot of them, you discontinued them, well, come on, that’s one i think the question is, in principle, to maintain the situation on the battlefield, in principle , there is enough money, it is enough and a lot has been paid for. what is now being produced in factories is paid for, it takes money to find a little bit, over there in south korea, somewhere so we need to identify calibers that are lacking, but in order to get new technologies, we need these, we need this

money, we need this money, and maybe this is also what the discussion is about, that we need technologies, this is a language that is understood by our partners, well... technological development, there is a green transition , and here are the necessary technologies, including the war should become technological without large human sacrifices, well, maybe in this way, in this way it is also conveyed to... the idea that it is necessary after all give money for new technologies that they will allow, in principle, well, everyone is talking about what many people are saying, well, in fact , russia is not that strong, it has its problems, they hide them, but they are there, and it is really possible to simply give more long-range weapons for everyone with these technologies, long-range weapons that will allow to work in the entire occupied territory in large volumes. well, more technological, but still, not the most modern systems, this will also

solve the situation, well, something revolves around this, but again, we will repeat it again, it is difficult to say yet why it is so difficult, why all this, and mr. oleksiy, this is the last question, maybe there will be a short answer, nuland, the deputy director of the us for political affairs is visiting kyiv and according to the results... that putin will receive several pleasant or unpleasant surprises there on the battlefield for the success of the ukrainian army , what surprises can we be talking about, can we talk about the fact that in particular there will be some decisions that did not happen before, well, in particular, there will be strikes on the territory of russia with american means, the transfer of some samples that were not previously planned, do you have any assumptions on this so optimistic nouland statement. and with regard to the american permission on the territory, everyone is hoping

for it, i think, to introduce it to be used for aerial purposes already now, maybe it is possible, whether it is possible to apply it on the ground for the territory of ukraine, i am not sure, i do not rule out that there are additional conditions, well, rebranding there must be, nothing, but there is a storm in the swamps, there must be something like that, a ukrainian rocket. let me remind you that we talked about zaluzhnyi's article new design of war with oleksiy yezhak, he is an expert of the national institute of strategic studies. the article is extremely interesting, powerful, it reflects certain realities, but we will continue to analyze it in other dimensions related to our defense industry, because there, too, zaluzhnyi says that our defense industry is too regulated, we need to change approaches, look for new ones. solutions and resources, but we will talk about this in our second part of the program, and now with

an advertising and information block: events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives, of course, the news feed reports about them, but there is little to know , what is happening, it is necessary to understand, antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly evaluate events, analyze them, modeling our future, every saturday... with a repeat on sunday at 10:10. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. a separate platoon of the sapsan unmanned aircraft complex of the state special transport service. the viewers of the espresso tv channel are asked to join the collection of crowns and technical equipment for our division. thank you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes.

channel espresso and ukrainian pen present own names project with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social debates. what news will be analyzed by the guests of the project this week, and actually, who will be the guest of the studio? let's find out about this one. on sunday, definitely, the topics will be relevant, the guests will be special, their own names with myroslava barchuk. sunday: 17:10 at espresso. we continue our "war and weapons" program. first of all, we are talking about valery zaluzhny's article, which appeared on the resource cnn, the changing design of war. it talks about the need for technological changes, about the need to develop our defense industry, about the need to make more... more ammunition, about a certain formalization in the management of our defense industry, and about these and other

aspects related to our defense industry and state , and privately, we will talk with our guest, we are joined by the head of the all-ukrainian association of employers of the machine-building industry federation and the head of the ukrinmash corporation vitaly nemolostov mr. vitaly, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear, i congratulate you and the audience. i would first of all like to start with zaluzhnyi's article, i am not sure if you have had time to read it, because it is extremely large and complex. on the other hand, he says one of those. which concerns the fact that the defense industry is currently regulated in a certain way in ukraine, it is necessary to look for certain approaches in order to unblock the work of our defense industry, but in any case, about the work of our defense industry, i would like to hear a little from you, because against the background of that

that a number of inspections by law enforcement agencies of various entrepreneurs were currently taking place. various structures that affected the efficiency of the work, then there was an appeal to the president that in fact it is necessary to stop such, well , unpredictable actions on the part of the control bodies, and how it now affects the work of the defense industry from the point of view of our law enforcement agencies and how it is necessary to change the existence of our defense plants in view of the needs that general zaluzhnyi speaks about. thank you for your question. i really haven't had time to read the article yet, but from what i'm from i heard you, well, there is nothing new for me, and experts know that we have an inefficient defense industrial complex management system, you and i have already been talking about it, well, i have been talking about it for, for example, 15 years, the first program

that was prepared normally from the reform and development of defense industry. of the ukraine complex was dated august 2008, it began to be implemented, if it had been implemented, then by 2013 we would actually have no private sector in defense, it would remain only on such sensitive things, which cannot be transferred to private hands, for example, there is a system for protecting communications or removing information, and so on and so forth, special chemistry, those things that... had to be left, unfortunately, the president changed and the defense industry was taken in a completely different direction, then, what general zaluzhnyi says, well , he just can't stand it anymore and is commenting , experts have known for a long time, let's say this, regarding your specific questions about the pressure of law enforcement agencies, after the meeting

of the latter with the president, the decision decree. there was, er, all the necessary commands were given and those arbitrariness suspended, well suspended, let's say what happened, but the term of this, this suspension, it is defined in the decree even, it is 3 months, yesterday and the day before yesterday, there would have been a lot of meetings with representatives of the cabinet of ministers, the office of the president of the nsdc, at various levels , different groups of specialists who decided what we should manage to do in these three months, so that this, let's say, manual mode, when it ends, so that a more or less normal system of authority is already in place. the first decisions were made yesterday, yesterday, you know that in the parliament was introduced as an urgent

draft law from the president, in order to resolve those issues regarding profit, uh, that were prohibited by the enterprise. of all forms of ownership to have a profit during the execution of defense orders, well, my opinion, as it was, and remains, that no laws are needed, the law on defense procurement clearly states that the customer has the right of the state, if there is a justification, to revise the price, both upwards and downwards, and the executor of the defense order is also entitled to submit proposals regarding... a justified increase or decrease, well, the situation has already reached such a dead end that they decided that it should be done again by law, well, that's good, i guess. yesterday there was a meeting with the first deputy prime minister of ukraine, minister of economy yulia sviridenko, and it was also agreed that the government will look at the form of standard contracts with the ministry of defense, which

do not have these clauses. besides, well, there are a lot of questions. was discussed, you also know that yesterday at its meeting the government considered three decisions that simplify the work regarding procurement of drones, in relation to the fact that the import of component products for the mine is shown on your screen right now, yesterday it was decided that the component solution under a simplified procedure can be imported by business entities of all forms of ownership for all types of ammunition, that's it a very positive decision that will lead to soon. time there for three to six, sometimes for nine months. so there have been some movements, but all these movements, if we don't change the paradigm in three months, what i mean... i mean change paradigm, we already have the task of adopting the law on the defense industry from 20 there on the 10th, we have three

projects in the verkhovna rada from the 13th year, 2013, 2017, 2000 and the 20th, as if they all froze there and are in the verkhovna rada. yesterday we discussed at the meeting of the federation of employers of ukraine and came up with the initiative that we need all these projects. raise, also take the translated text of the law of the united states of america on this matter, and make, well, without inventing a normal law, a bill, and submit it for introduction. mr. vitaly, i am a little i'm going to cut you off, i understand a little bit that you're talking about important legislative things, but when we get down to the nitty-gritty of what 's going on with our defense industry right now, in particular private industry, are there any orders from...with our manufacturers, are there they are three-year orders, are there funds in the ministry of defense in order to pay , to pay for production, what is happening here,

well, you raise absolutely valid questions, i just started with legislative initiatives and go down, let’s say, as you say, to the ground, unfortunately, unfortunately, there are no three-year contracts, yesterday we also discussed everything that if they do not appear, and everything will be managed. regime, then nothing good will happen further, unfortunately, whether to buy imported or domestic products depends on the official, until now, on one, well, yesterday, using the example of fire trucks, for example, it was considered that we have our own manufacturers, three companies produced a sufficient number fire engines, but some official there says: why do i need domestic ones, i will buy imported ones there, er, this should not happen, we should do this at the... legislative level, at the level of government decisions forbid that officials unilaterally cancel, by the way, it was contracted, and they changed the procurement plan and say that we do not

need it. unfortunately, unfortunately, the money for the preparation of production, armed with military equipment, which is included in the budget, is not allocated to private companies at all, from the word at all, it is very, very, very bad that... why is it not allocated, well, because that living people work in the ministry, and they say that as soon as we allocate money to private companies, the law enforcement officers come to us, and we return what we came from as if they have started, criminal cases are brought against us, against officials, although there is no legal restriction on whether to allocate funds to public or private, and it turns out to be ineffective use of public funds, why is it ineffective, you? well, you know all these statistical figures, the head of ukroboronprom said that in the 23rd year the growth occurred by 62%. he is telling the truth,

but this is an increase in the state department, which is subordinate to ukroboron prob. by the way, no one says that in this 62% increase, 90% is due to the complicity of co-executives private enterprises. at the same time, the minister says: that we have a 300% growth there, and he is telling the truth, why is he telling the truth, because all the other growth is the private sector, and at the same time, it is the ministry itself that provides funds for production preparation allocates only to the public sector, but in this i am not talking about efficiency, we have proposed, we have even prepared a draft resolution of the verkhovna rada to oblige the cabinet of ministers to allocate funds proportionately to the private sector. the second thing we proposed is that the money be allocated by example, for example, if not in the military industry, in the military industry, there is an impression that our country is not at war now,

and everything is working in the agrarian-industrial complex, everyone knows what to do, how to do it, in the defense-industrial complex, as if we we live in another country. i remind you, well, for 15 years, in the agrarian-industrial complex , the following happens: the government and the ministry of agrarian policy define priorities. well, for example, there are granaries, or refrigerators, or fruit storages, or there are some gardens, and funds are allocated for the development of this particular direction, which this is the way it is done, the private sector builds the facilities, after he has built them, put them into operation, a commission comes and checks what he has done, for example, a refrigerator, or planted an apple tree in the garden. checked, checked his expenses, put signatures and compensated 70% from the state budget, it has been working for 15 years, it's

cool, we say, why does it work? in the agricultural sector and cannot in the defense sector, and this will remove responsibility from a specific official in the ministry, because he is really afraid, because they come to him immediately and they say, oh, why did you give money to that person and not to that person, well, we have such a legal system, such a legal culture, that our law enforcement agencies believe that if money was given to a private company, then it is bad, and if it is state, that's good, although it's not effective at all , well, then a situation arises that, relatively speaking , now, as i understand it, there are no orders from the private defense industry today, they fulfill at best the annual contracts of last year, and now this procurement procedure is changing , but we see that the accents everything will be at the bottleneck through ukroboronprom, and everything will be concentrated there. no, i wouldn't say that, i repeat, i say that there are no three-year contracts, there are short-term contracts, both in

the private sector and in the state. sector , but you yourself understand that in order to make a decision to invest funds, you need to have some kind of business plan and technique, economic justification, and well, there are no such profits in the defense industry, it is not a trade in drugs, yes, what you invested money today in serial preparation for serial production and paid it off in a year, the payback terms, well , they are not invested in three years, they are invested there in 5-7 years, but... in our country today there is a system that is fully formed by the laws of ukraine, that you can sign three-year contracts contracts, we ask, let's move on, for example, to the weapons samples that have been put into service, i emphasize, not those that are just being developed, because there are some doubts, let's say, from the customers, that it will be of high quality and something else, well, for example , btr-4, ukrainian apc, adopted into service, our general...

knows 20 years ahead how many armored personnel carriers he needs in four, why is there no three-year contract? and by the way, mr. general, hard-working , i respect and love him, well, like our entire country, but i have a question for him, as for the head of the general staff, and where is the order from you for 3 years for btr-4 , is only for a year, and this is precisely the responsibility of the general staff of ukraine, not the ministry of defense. when we come to the officials of the ministry of defense, they say, guys, we have... a computer, paper and a pen or pencil, everything else is what the general staff requires of us, well, then it's more of a question of what we need for three years, we'll buy, it's more of a question of a whisper than of a hard worker from the point of view of how to plan all needs and purchases for a certain period of time, mr. sergey, look, you know the names of all the generals there, i also know them a little, well, we will not

teach them with you, as among ourselves to communicate... and which of them should do what, their tasks, so that the ministry of defense would need it for three years formed, at least on the samples of weapons adopted for service, the same anti-tank missiles, the same missiles there neptune, the same, i can list ad infinitum, everything that has been adopted, they have calculations for peacetime, for the offensive for of defense, anything, they can give these needs on... unfortunately, either the ministry of defense of brescia says that they do not have them, or the general staff does not give. mr. vitaly, thank you for your explanations, it was expressive, dynamic, but we did not discuss everything, i think we will in the following inclusions, we will still be able to return to other important points related to the development of our defense industry. and i will remind our viewers that my interlocutor was vitaly nemylostivy, the head of the all-ukrainian union of employers of machine builders of ukraine. so

which ones? the conclusions are the technological vision expressed by general zaluzhnyk, which involves the creation of new approaches due to a significant number of robotic platforms of various purposes, new approaches to their application in order to reduce the burden on personnel, which is lacking now on the front line, but there are everyday needs in terms of the production of armored vehicles, ammunition, other things, some of which can be made by our domestic defense industry, but there are also certain disadvantages associated with the lack of... long-term orders that do not allow for the purchase of equipment, the scaling of products at the expense of this equipment, and this also creates challenges for our defense industry to be strengthened precisely at the expense of our own capabilities, i think that all these challenges should be taken into account and the ministry of defense, and the general staff, and other bodies, so that our defense is stronger, and the potential of our defense industry...