citizen, including, and well, here we hear the echoes of hungary, including the rights of national minorities and the rule of law, and this already lays a rather serious wake-up call, in my opinion, for our government today, but beyond that, after this mechanism is finally agreed from the point of view of its mechanics, a credit agreement will be adopted , which will be based on the so-called plan of ukraine, which the government has yet to present finally to the european commission, and it was desired that they also present it to the ukrainian parliament until then, and this plan will form the basis of the conditions that ukraine will have to fulfill every quarter in order to receive the next tranche, and this very much distinguishes this program from all previous aid grants to us.

during a full-scale invasion, but tell me, in principle, if we talk from the point of view of these discussions about aid, what will happen to the discussions when the process of negotiations with the european union begins, it will also be necessary to sit down at the table with viktor orban or another someone to coax, convince, make compromises, viktor said, after he received a decision on ukraine's negotiations with we will have a million more opportunities to block it all, well , it's true, he will have opportunities, how to overcome it all? well, i would even say that it will not only be necessary to sit down and negotiate with viktor orbán, it will be necessary to sit down and negotiate with a large number of individual countries of the european union with regard to one or another, perhaps sensitive issues for them, and it will be very not an easy process, so you know, i remember everything... the phrase, me

it seems that six months remained until the moment when the prime minister of ukraine shmyhal promised that we would already be in the european union, i think it was in january of the 23rd year, if i am not mistaken, whether it was in january or even , well, somewhere like that, well, let’s count maybe 8-9 months until that date, and it is obvious that it will be a very difficult process and it is obvious that... in the coming years with such and such a leadership of hungary, with the presence of the fidesz political party on such and such a dominant position in hungary, we should not expect any a serious change in their behavior, and we must understand that they will use elements of blackmail, both in relation to ukraine and in relation to the european union. institutions

of the european union or to their fellow members of the eu member states, and it will not be easy, and it is obvious that somewhere orbán is counting on the fact that the balance of scales within the european union may change after the elections are held this year, both in the european parliament and in individual countries, members of the european union, because he sees this strengthening and increasing the role of right-wing political forces and he. counts on additional allies in this process, and this is a very difficult challenge for us, as for ukraine. ugh. mrs. ivano, this week , as it became known, the minister of defense of ukraine rustem umerov addressed the heads of the military departments of the countries of the european union with the urgent need for the ukrainian army, shells, this is what is missing. the european union can supply ukraine with... artillery shells instead of

the promised million and openly says so josep borel, head of european diplomacy, this is not all of what we were promised. in your opinion, the problem lies in production, that is, purely in the physics of the process, or is there still a certain political component here? i think it's exactly what you call it at this point. which process is such a decisive obstacle for the european union to fulfill the obligation that it proactively took upon itself and provided us with a million shells during the year, and excuse me a billion, yes, but, but, a million, a million, a million, a million, a million, but, i, i'm a little worried about the discussion that's going on in the european union right now, because we're hearing that, let's say, the czech republic is offering... uh, to the european

union, given that there's a problem with production and given the fact that the european military-industrial complex does not have time to produce this amount. projectiles to purchase these projectiles for ukraine already now from those countries, well, from outside the borders of the european union, such as south korea or other countries, but we see that certain countries, who are the manufacturers of these projectiles, they are quite skeptical about this and are interested in ensuring that the funds that the european union, the countries of the european union allocate for this purchase and for this production, so that they still remain in europe and... .it seems to me that this is an urgent situation that we find ourselves in, and with the united states continuing to push back the decision to provide us with military and financial support, we need to enter into a conversation with our partners,

so that this initiative of the czech republic was, after all, at least partially implemented, as long as colleagues in europe can raise it. the number of its own, well its capacity in the production of projectiles. to what extent , in principle, can it be assumed that the europeans will be ready if you want to replace the united states, as french president emmanuel macron says in helping ukraine? i understand, i am clearly aware, that this is a task that can be realized only during a large number of years, us. i'm not sure we have this one spare time, and that's why i think that it will be a near impossible task for the next year, for the next year, or even for the next two years, and that's why i understand that european

countries can, let's say, invest additional funds in the so-called government orders and for what would be. predictable and understandable for weapons manufacturers in europe, but at the same time, i am convinced that it is necessary to attract opportunities from outside the countries of europe, due to the fact that the quality and the entire set of, say, weapons that can be provided can provide the united states of america cannot be replaced by the countries of the european union themselves in the near future. well, a strategically important question, namely access for us to the markets of the european union, we understand that certain processes of a different nature are currently taking place in neighboring countries, and at the same time this motivates politicians in these

countries, it is possible to somehow intensify the discussion in the european union regarding access in general us as not yet a member. of the european union to the markets of the european union. mrs. ivanna, in your opinion we really have to fight here for our place under the sun, and why do we even have to do it considering, well , the geopolitical situation, considering the situation of the russian federation's rampant aggression against us. well, you quite diplomatically formulated what we have to deal with, we see both objective and very subjective, and even manipulated by different people. by political internal forces in different countries, the processes that relate to this now, well, if you like, the launch of a new launch of a wave of farming, farming dissatisfaction, but we hear about the intentions

of the complete blocking of the border in poland, and the polish-ukrainian border, we hear about the intentions of additional, now hungarian farmers to block one of the transitions between. ukraine and hungary, that is, you and i have seen the slovak ones, well, so far they are patchy, well, the romanian demonstrations, and this means that we are facing a very, very complicated situation, and here there are two different approaches, there are approaches of individual countries , members, there are general approaches of the institutions of the european union, the constitutions are more ready for that to provide ukraine with opportunities to maximize its ability to export across borders by land, by land through the countries of the european union, i think that here

we have such a political component, and partly an economic component, and the economic component can be 100% resolved, and for a and... and here it is important that the ukrainian side is ready for these negotiations, and the countries, members, and institutions are also ready, but after that, this whole real economy, real. economy without manipulations, without conjectures, without embellishments, without such things distortion of factage, it is necessary to transfer it to the political plane and bring it to the people, and this is not necessary, well, it will be the information that the farmers will want to hear, they are now using this opportunity in order to secure additional subsidies for themselves, additional advantages given the fact that they ... create competition for ukrainian agriculture, which is currently completely undersubsidized in our

territory, and this means that it is much more competitive, and this is a potential point of tension and exactly this common agrarian one the policy of the european union, which for decades determined the subsidized nature of agriculture in... will have to be revised by the european union, we are just waiting, at the end of february , such a report should be presented to the european commission on the challenges that the european union must overcome before the new wave of expansion, and here i am convinced that this will be one of those directions that will require revision and such a difficult discussion within the european union. union and it's the same with us, you and i, as people who today are fighting for

survival and for us to have a choice, it is obviously quite difficult to accept some pseudo-rational arguments from our colleagues, when for us it is the only possibility to have additional income to our budget, and for us it is an opportunity to provide our... security and defense component, and tell me, mrs. ivan, what can be expected from the summit of joseph balden and olaf scholze, it is february 9, literally in a few days, well i don't know what we can do expect as a result of this summit, but we definitely understand that this is after all these decisions that were made at the level of the european union and actually at the level of germany itself, which even doubled the provision of military aid to ukraine for... 24 years and what is also planning and preparing, well, for

signing his vision of these obligations regarding the provision of security assistance, because i cannot call them security guarantees, however the bank would like to call it today, i think that with this whole package of achievements , let's say as europe sees, as kosholtsi as one and... the leader of one of the key and important countries of the european union sees an increase in his role in supporting ukraine, it will obviously be about using this as an argument for an internal discussion in the united states of america, which they say europe does not understand the burden of supporting ukraine on the states, does its job, but also expects from the states, seriously. such an infusion of additional opportunities for

ukraine to hold on and win in this battle in this battle. thank you, mrs. ivana. ivana kushat for people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the committee on ukraine's integration into the european union. and now we are moving from european to american terrain. ihor eisenberg, professor at new york university. congratulations, mr. igor. greetings, mr. vitaly, greetings, ms. khrystyna, greetings to all viewers. so, let's talk at the beginning about this publication in the edition of the washington post, which is currently being discussed, that the ukrainian leadership of nibela informed, allegedly informed the american leadership of the intention to change the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, in the american management responded to volodymyr zelenskyi. you know, just like, i apologize for the joke

of a jew to a non-believer on the sabbath, do as you know, do you even believe in this, in such a synogol relationship between the white house and the bank? look, i, when american newspapers refer to some russian sources, let's say, about what's happening in russia, i don't really believe it, because i always think... that it can be such a deliberate injection of disinformation from russia, but when american newspapers refer to american sources, which they do not name relate to what is happening there. somewhere in the administration in the white house, i rather believe that this is real information than that it is not real, and i, i willingly believe that in the united states would be unhappy about the possible resignation of valery zoloshny, and therefore it is quite possible that, that this, exactly this

answer was given, uh, mr. igor, well... in general, if we talk about what unfolded, unfolded in ukraine this week and about the reaction in the united states, or the visit in particular and by a political, yes political delegation from from the state department of victoria nulad, here was there a place to be, was there a place to calm things down a bit, and was it successful in your opinion? in the united states, you see, there was no official comment on the possible resignation of valery zaluzhnyi, but the last, in the last two or three days, it was very actively discussed in the media, in particular on television, and television in general is more focused on what is inside the united states is being done, well here i am, for example, last night i watched cnn and msnbc, they discussed this,

they spent quite a lot of time on it, with sympathies for zaluzhny, and with such... questions, how come you can't change the commander-in-chief in the middle of a war, well, such comments came from journalists, not from officials, that is, whether the same opinion is held by officials, we can only imagine , well, if, if you believe, because the washington post refers to really knowledgeable sources, then it is so, and that's why i think. i think that the administration was not dissatisfied with these rumors, this information, regarding victoria nuland, but i drew attention to the fact that she was not met neither volodymyr zelenskyi nor yermak, who is not unofficially, so to speak, a confidant of volodymyr zelenskyi,

or was it said, mr. igor, that there were simply no reports about any part of the program of the state representative. maybe , not at all possible, maybe, but let’s say, in the official answer, of course, but that’s how they say it simply, the state department’s message about her meetings in kyiv, well, it said that she confirmed the firm and determined support of the united states, ukraine and in her struggle, and so on and so forth, that is, i can't exclude the fact that she also spoke about the possible resignation of zaluzhny, because, of course, that was known in the united states. what is going on there, and since, since we can see from everything that the administration was not satisfied with this, it is quite possible that she spoke about this as well, and certainly, for now, the question of help for us from the united states remains up in the air , senate majority leader cheek schumer said that as early as next week

, the senate will vote on an additional national security bill that includes a bipartisan agreement that... regarding border security, and of course aid to ukraine and israel, at what stage are these processes in the us now? as far as we can understand, the bill is ready, it has been approved by these two groups of senators, one group from the democrats, the other from the republicans, even the leader of the republican group, senator lankfort , was reprimanded by the republican committee. in the state of oklahoma for negotiating with the democrats to approve this bill, and chuck schumer, who defines agenda of the senate, as the majority leader , he said that he put it to a vote on wednesday, but there should be several votes there, because in the senate there is such a procedure for consideration of bills, first you have to

vote to start the discussion of the bill, and you need 60 votes for this, i think from everything i 've seen that those 60 votes will be because the overwhelming majority of democrats support this bill, it may not be supported by a few left-wing democrats in the senate because they oppose unconditional bailout israel, and they also don't like the immigration changes that have been made, but it's going to be a few votes against, among the republicans, there are about 20 senators who are far right in their views, trump-oriented, but it's still enough to have 60 votes, what will happen next is unknown, and no one can predict it now, because what the speaker of the house of representatives will decide. whether he will put it on the agenda of the house or not, no one knows, because his statements are very contradictory, by the way, he is scheduled to give an interview to nbc tomorrow,

such a sunday weekly program, a meeting with the press, will be his big interview, maybe he will say something new, because it seems to me that when he made demands back in november that the aid to ukraine is connected with changes in the first he said. with strengthening border security, biden submitted this bill, where aid to ukraine, aid to israel, aid to taiwan and another 14 billion to strengthen border security, then he said that we need more changes in immigration law, now these changes have been agreed, he a week ago he says that this bill died on the way to the house of representatives, i get the impression that... from the very beginning he put forward terms that he believed would be unacceptable to the democrats, to the administration, and then he could always say: well you see, we can't get excited about helping ukraine because

the administration doesn't care about the southern border, about reducing the flow of illegal immigrants, and so on. now he can't say it, but the problem is that donald trump, he builds, for the most part now his... election campaign is based on the fact that he is the only person who can solve the border problems, so he simply does not want this bill to be adopted, both because there is help for ukraine and because there is really there are many things that can help greatly reduce the flow, the flow of immigrants being admitted to the united states from mexico, and mr. igor, one more. this is the toy that trump likes to play with in the conditions of the election campaign, this is the economic, in general, status and condition in the united states, now politico writes

that the economy of the united states is improving, and this is already forcing trump, and apparently his advisers, to look for other buttons to push in the run-up to election day in order to play on them, and in fact play against . joseph biden, how much, well, what 's next, what is donald trump going to do? it's hard to predict, he, by the way , a few days ago, he's on his social media, this social, he, he tweeted that the economy is improving, the stock market is hitting records because he expects his return, or it is because of him, that is, what will happen. what will happen next is hard to say, actually he, he from all his recent speeches, he really took on this problem of the border and illegal

immigrants, and he repeated throughout the last week that only he can solve this problem, and that this bill, which prepared in the senate, it is bad, and it is better that there is no bill, then nothing is a bad bill, while he repeats that in the united states ... there are 300,000 murders every year, allegedly, what, what are these murders committed by illegals by immigrants, well, that is completely untrue, but he says it, and at the same time he wants nothing to be done during the year to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants, that is, if you believe him, he is proposing that more 300 thousand murders, what's next, it's hard to say, i... well , there's really no answer to that, but i think he's going to keep doing what he's doing, repeating these themes that, that the economy can only improve he and she improve

because of him that the border problem will solve only he can stop the war in ukraine , only he will not do it in 24 hours, but he will, he will constantly repeat the same things. and you, by the way, can understand this social schizophrenia that i see all the time in the united states, when people tell me that... they are supporters of make america great agent of this movement in favor of trump and at the same time supporters of ukraine, that they came those in maga t-shirts, at the congress session dedicated to helping ukraine? i absolutely agree with you that this is schizophrenia, that's why that this is like a splitting of the personality, so how is it possible to maintain this magarukh and one thing. often support ukraine, i don't understand what's in people's heads, i just understand that modern methods of influencing

people's consciousness. there are so many of them that it is very easy to program people's consciousness in some, let's say, dark, dark side, when people simply stop understanding reality and live in some very millions of people, tens, hundreds of millions of people, and all over the world, and somehow they change move to virtual reality, so instead , instead of the real world, they see: some kind of virtual world, so too, so do many supporters of donald trump, they see the world that donald trump paints for them, and they believe that this world exists, that , that everything is so and so, as, as he paints, exactly as trump paints, and unfortunately, there are really a lot of such people, tens of millions of them in the united states, and hundreds of millions of them in the world, and what about that to do, you know, like

those... schneider recently said that the only thing you can do about it is spread the truth real information, and to teach people so that they can draw correct conclusions from real facts, firstly, so that people receive real facts and can draw correct conclusions from these real facts. well, if we talk about the status of the election campaign in general now in the united states, mr. igor, or you... then write off niki geli, because the primaries from the caucuses show that, in principle , biden really is from the democrats, from the republicans mainly, in trump has success, but there are other candidates, and is everything for them decided by your feeling and your opinion , well the democrats for sure, there is actually one candidate, dean phillips, the congressman from minnesota, and his only complaint about joe biden is that he thinks that joe biden is too much. old

to be president, well, it is not taken seriously by the vast majority of voters, the democrats, of course, this will be confirmed, but today is the democratic primary in south carolina, and the republicans, look, nikki haley, in my opinion, has no chance , if trump, will not to remain a candidate, that is, if somehow, say, through the courts. convictions , it's not going to turn out that he's going to be ineligible because the republican primaries, they're like, average, regular, registered republicans, come and vote, most average republicans support donald trump, and so the odds they won the primaries practically there is no, maybe, maybe some chance. it can

be in blue democratic states, where there are more such more centrist ones republicans, well, let's say she had such a chance in the state of new hampshire, the state of new hampshire is a liberal state, so moderately democratic, there are more moderate republicans, she got almost 44% of the votes of those who participated in the primaries there, although in the state new hampshire primaries are open, not only party voters can participate in them, but anyone can come and say, here is an independent voter, i want, i want to participate in the republican party primaries. what was interesting in new hampshire was that these independents who participated in these primaries 70% of them voted for nikki hale, only 30% for trump, because of this support of independent voters, trump has a chance to win the elections in november, well, there is none, if there is such a level of support of independent voters at

the level of 30 or 40%. according to the poll that was, the results of which were published on friday, this is not enough to win, to win the general national election, but for nikki haley, the decisive moment will be the priymaries that will be in her home state , south carolina, there republican the primaries will be on february 24th, the second anniversary of russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine, and if she can't win in her home state, or at least...not fall far behind trump, then of course i think she 'll drop out of the campaign soon enough after this mr. igor, thank you. igor eisenberg, a professor at new york university, joined the saturday political club. and now we will take a short break, after which we will spend an hour with vitaly portnikov. wait.