oh, and stay with the press, in just a few minutes the verdict program, let's watch it together. good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko. i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, pro... war and our victory. today in the program. thinking about a replacement. zelenskyi commented on the intention to release zaluzhnyi. the changes exclude a number of personnel decisions in the army. stagnation at the front. the russians may break through the defenses if they do not recover american aid. in which directions the situation is the most difficult. causes discussions. the council can consider the disputed. the project on

mobilization already this week, will the economy withstand the mobilization load? we will talk about this and other things during the next hour with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine, colonel of the security service of ukraine roman kostenko, retired colonel of great britain, glen grant and people's deputy of ukraine ivanna klympush-tsintsadze. in the second part of our program we will have political scientists however, before we start our big talk, let's watch a video of the stunning success of the 72nd brigade near novomykhaivka in donetsk region, when a russian mechanized column of 11 armored vehicles was defeated. let's see.

glory to the 72nd brigade and those who destroy the russian occupiers on the russian-ukrainian front. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, please vote in our poll, today we ask you about whether you are satisfied with the work of the head of the armed forces of ukraine zaluzhny, yes, no, everything is quite there simply. if you watch us on tv about... vote on the relevant phone numbers 0800 211 381, if you are satisfied with the work of the head, if you are not satisfied 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up this vote , and don't forget, please, to like this video in order for it to progress in youtube trends, it is very important for us, and we are in touch. our

first guest is roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, secretary of the verkhovna rada committee council on national security, defense and intelligence, colonel of the security service of ukraine. mr. colonel, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, each other. mr. colonel, in an interview with italian journalists, zelenskyi said that the issue of zaluzhno will obviously be on the agenda. day this week and the consequences of such dismissal will obviously also be discussed, as well as the change, other personnel changes that will be proposed by the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine, let's listen to what zelensky said. i thinking about this replacement, but you can't say it's just about one person , if we want to win, we have to...

push everyone in the same direction, convinced of victory, we can't lose heart, give up , we have to have the right positive energies, that's why i talk about rebooting. about the replacement, i mean something serious that concerns more than one person, the direction of the country's leadership. today, ukrainian pravda, referring to its sources, wrote that it is obviously a replacement the chief of the general staff, who is serhii shaptala now and... that this personnel rotation will also be with the staff, what do you know about these rotations? you know, first of all, it somehow looks quite wrong when we have a whole marathon in the country, and we

learn such news from an interview with the foreign press, and i think it is quite wrong, because there are all, let's say, the whole society of the majority they gave a marathon, they said: look, here is the truest information and the most reliable, and at the same time, here are the insiders and decisions of the supreme commander-in-chief tells other newspapers to such editions , thus saying that, well, it looks like here, in principle, they will find out about her when necessary, but this is what i am informing the world now, that i will have such and such intentions, and this it looks very ugly, because the war is going on here, everyone is suffering... they are suffering here, people live here, news is waiting here, and change is waiting here, not somewhere in italy or somewhere else, and this i think is wrong from the point of view of communication , which we have from the very beginning, in principle, which is directly related to the issue

changes in the commander-in-chief, i have already said my point of view on this matter, my personal point of view, that the hard-working must continue to perform tasks. in principle, he now leads the armed forces directly by war, the army trusts him, and he is in his place, as far as the supreme commander is concerned, he has the right to replace anyone who, as far as the military leadership is concerned, the state itself and his right to choose there, with with whom he should continue to fight, but he should also remember about the consequences that may be, that this is a person who trusted in the army. a person from whom, since the beginning of the full-scale war, people have gone through the hottest times, and i believe that they have already passed the hottest times of this war, and many of the people who now lead the brigades, including other directions, are people who in

principles have been at war with him since the 14th year, so here you also need to understand the consequences and be guided not only by emotions, this is my point of view, but... i understand that your committee does not have any information about whether will this rotation be, or when will it be, that is, there are none, and i will tell you , i will tell you, and i think that this information is not even there, going beyond the five or six managers who were mentioned, and i am sure that they do not know now, how will it be, because i will tell what is inside, even from the office of the president. several people have already written to me there, including that they are shooting 300% tomorrow, it was a few days ago, they are shooting 200% the day after tomorrow, 100% budanov, syrskyi or other candidates will be there, they have already mentioned it several times, already the whole decision has been made, then the next

day they say something different, and here i already understand in particular that the decision has not been fully made, maybe they want it and dream of it, but maybe they still don't fully understand how to do it. for some reason i think that this decision will be made, but i will probably discuss it when i see the decree, because it often happened with us, when we talked, talked, talked, and then just forgot, i understand that it is or not were able to - how to do it painlessly for yourself, or simply it was some kind of information campaign on e, let's say yes, well, as they say, we are focusing on... on some other object, mr. colonel, it is clear that zelensky, in accordance with his powers, can make a decision regarding the change of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, but what about in this situation the army will respond, because

zaluzhnyi has authority, he is known, he is trusted, and he has certain knowledge and competence, respectively, in order to lead the ukrainian army. that is, there is obviously no point in talking about the legality of such a decision, because it is a matter of competence the supreme commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, but from the point of view of the taking over of powers by another head, and in general, how will this affect the situation at the front , first of all, and the situation in the army in general? it is a difficult question, and when i say that our commander-in-chief must bear in mind the consequences, he must also bear in mind that a gallant is a general of authority, who is accepted by the whole army, again, who has fought from the beginning with all, which in principle those before the achievement, which we now have, when we have in principle, we have the country under control

for the most part, and let's say, in our country, we are resisting there, this is also the merit of him and the entire army of our defense force, including those that he controls, and we can strategically say the entire society, but directly, including that, and his merit in this is as the commander-in-chief, therefore... well, the army is like an army, we understand what is important here, military people, of course, there are different people with whom i communicate, they are quite strong they respect the hard-working, and there someone says that it is not possible, someone says that, let's put it this way, it doesn't matter who comes now, because there is no ammunition, how are you going to fight, and here you need to take this into account and understand that it's up to us even if the president decides to change the commander-in-chief, that's the main thing here this, not to allow anything in the army. that an authoritative person has arrived, who is perceived by the army, even if this happens, and it is very important, they should

talk about it, everyone should talk about it to the president, because he is a civilian, he does not understand how the army works inside, what is vertical army, what is it? people in epaulettes, who suffer there all their lives and, as they say, go to their positions, who command the troops, who sent people to death and now live with it, it is completely different, it is not not to appoint a civilian. there for some position, this is very important to understand, well, you also need to understand how it will be for the other person, if it already happens, we are already theorizing with you, and seeing where everything is going, if a new person comes there, whoever it is there were many people who wanted information there, they understand, and the supreme commander-in-chief must understand that that person, first of all, that they will immediately need a result from him, a result from... let me show you that you are better than the poor guy and that i made the right decision, and to make some result

in the conditions of reducing assistance in the conditions collapse of mobilization, and well, the bill will be adopted there in a month, then after some time it will begin to be implemented, and maybe some mobilization processes will be established at the beginning of the year or at the end, therefore, repeating once again, the lack of ammunition resources, the lack of mobilization reserve or resource e. the lack of even funds for the army there and it will be quite difficult to make some achievements there or something that will be needed, who has not been appointed to this position, and then questions may arise, and it was not the case in the case of a diligent person, or what you have put has become worse, and isn't this treason, these issues need to be taken into account and calculated in advance , including the president's entourage, which informs him of this. other information and start listening to more than five or six

managers is possible there in order to understand which ones there may be consequences. so far, no decision has been made regarding the dismissal, but today there is the first resignation letter from the minister of veterans affairs of ukraine, yulia laputina, she filed a statement and the representative of the cabinet of ministers in the verkhovna rada, taras melnychuk, wrote about it, he did not give reasons for the dismissal. and we know that yulia laputina, she worked in the sbu for quite a long time, she is a major general of the sbu, and held the position of minister of veterans affairs since december 2020, she is your colleague, mr. colonel, and obviously you like her a lot you know better than anyone whether you know the reasons why laputina is resigning, so we... colleague, but we never crossed paths in the service at all, in principle, i already saw about her when she was appointed, well i so

i remember that she serves in the service, let's say, we worked in different directions, i will say that there were various complaints about the ministry directly, specifically, why she wrote a statement, i don't have any information yet, let's just say, i didn't have time still to inquire, but i think some main reasons. which, or maybe this is it such preparation for these broad changes, it is possible to create in them, including diligently, mr. colonel, this week , the verkhovna rada of ukraine should start considering the bill on mobilization, this bill was finalized in the government and resubmitted to the verkhovna rada of ukraine. do you know how the procedure for consideration of this bill will take place, whether this bill will be submitted by the supreme

commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, because today there was information that he submitted bills on mobilization, it happens, if i am not mistaken, that every quarter, that is , mobilization continues in accordance with wartime, do you understand who is the author of this law on mobilization, what are its prospects and what are the main comments of the people's deputies of ukraine to this project? well, if we are talking about mobilization and extension, then every three months. we are adopting these two draft laws on martial law and, in parallel, on mobilization , in connection with the approval of the presidential decree, and tomorrow we will also vote on this in the committee well, and then already in the hall it will be voted on regarding the draft law itself, well, who is the author, the author, the government, just like last time, it is the government that submits this draft bill, what are the comments, well

, i will say that it has not changed in particular since the last time, there are some changes, but especially there e- there are no such changes, so i will say here that in order to hear the opinion of the deputies, you need to contact each deputy separately, there will still be factions, including our faction, which will meet and we will specifically discuss issues related to this draft law in order to, well accept already enlightening decision, how it will be, for example, it will be regardless of the fact that there is a vote there in the first reading or an attempt to correct it before the second or there the first vote and then already... well, how it will go, there is another question to the procedure itself, you are right, because it is somehow not clear how the procedure is currently taking place, there are regulations, and according to the regulations, these draft laws must be passed, but now this draft law is at the stage of being submitted to the verkhovna rada, and two weeks must pass, this is the time for people's deputies to take advantage

by their right and submitted alternative bills, uh, there is a procedure when the parliament... immediately votes on it and shortens the deadlines for submitting alternative bills, but it is somehow done right away, it must be done, but tomorrow we will, well, not tomorrow, at the next meeting we will vote to shorten the procedure when it has already passed, if i am not mistaken, the half-term has actually already passed and we will vote on it, so the question is, why will we vote, because the ministry of defense, as we were told in committee today, sent a letter , recognize him urgent, we open the regulations, and it is clearly written there that it can be called urgent to submit a draft law, it is only the president, or by decision of the verkhovna rada, the government or the ministry of defense, they are not the subject of such a submission, and tomorrow, including at the committees, we will let's figure it out, but do we have laws that uphold laws, has anarchy already gone , or could it be the case, mr. colonel, that this

draft law, which will pass all the votes in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, will simply be... not signed by the president, since the law listen, i have already spoken about this many times, you know what could happen to me, we will now go through all this, we will take on all the negativity, because the draft law on mobilization is negative, and it could be someone's operation, including , let's say discrediting against non-signing, we 've already gone through this more than once, i've already talked about it publicly, that there is such a threat, given that the president has, let's say... such a habit of not signing bills submitted by the verkhovna rada, but the verkhovna rada does not have the opportunity, although it has everything for it legal grounds, opportunities , er, levers of influence, but she doesn't use it, she just, well, most people wait for what they are told from the office of the president, we can't influence it in any way, many wonderful laws have been submitted and voted, which the president

has to sign, he does not sign them, so of course there is such a threat, and when you vote for such a... bill, you also think about it, but will someone use your vote to point fingers at you later , but look, it's all of them, we didn't want it, why me i ask because the previous law, which lowered the lower limit of those who are mobilized from 27 to 25 years of age, it has not been signed by the president, it is there, it is lying, and the verkhovna rada once again took responsibility, it is not popular the law, because it does, lowers the age, so is the law. the project on the write-off of military property, when we say it, is a glaring problem, and yesterday the president was directly, as he says, there somewhere at ground zero, on the front line, well , let's say, zero, whatever he calls it. it is zero on the front line, but if it was, i say in correct line, then he should be told about this bill, because this is one of the most glaring problems, along with the lack

of ammunition, the fact that people cannot write off property that has been there for two years, or destroyed in the war, or lost, and so on they need to make a bunch of documents so that it is not counted behind them, and we say that we are worried about our military, and at that time this draft law is lying, ready, waiting for... signature, but no one signs it, and that's the relationship to our military. mr. colonel, what will happen if the verkhovna rada ukraine will pass this law, but the president won't sign it and will say, well, this bill was actually prepared by a team of hard workers, and that's why i'm against it, because we need to mobilize 500,000 people there, we can't make it so that these people leave and our economy there collapses , because there is already an appeal. business associations should not adopt the government's draft law on mobilization rules without revision, because it can paralyze, as they consider, the work of part

of the country. the game of a good and evil investigator, or a good and evil president, here is a team zaluzhnyi is leaving, these are zaluzhnyi's problems, the verkhovna rada is not approving it, the government was preparing the bill, and the supreme commander-in-chief , what will this situation look like? i think anyway how can he make himself look like a winner if this bill is of course not a popular bill that restricts rights, yes it's not about 500k, it's about, shall we say, giving rights there is the tsk, it is about restricting rights, it is not about 5,000, it is about those who should be framed and then taken away, and here is the question, of course, when you come out and say, i don’t have it there i will sign, it's all the deputies, or it's all the team , of course, people will accept it, because they are unpopular, sign it, it will be an unpopular decision, and we understand that the government

is not yet ready to make unpopular decisions, as far as we can see, in including those that are imposed on them there, including because this type, the type was given a slack, but when you tell them to sign the law on write-off, they say no, well, this is the type of opposition deputy, although there another 40 different deputies... wrote, and 302 voted, but no, well, not us let's do it, it doesn't matter that the army suffers from this million, but we will not do it, and we have this at the exit, of course, that is the question, that when we see what is happening, then impose something on , seeing what an unpopular decision and that the authorities cannot make them, you think to yourself, and do you, say, need to do something now so that someone from above, violating the constitution, simply did not sign it later and... said that that was all bad mps, bad government and bad military. mr. colonel, thank you for conversation, it was roman kostenko, colonel of the security service of ukraine, people's deputy

of ukraine. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are watching us there now, please like this video, don't be stingy, very good broadcast, it claims to be present in youtube trends. well, take part. in our survey, today we ask you about whether you are satisfied with the work of the head of zsu zaluzhnyi, yes, no, if you are sitting before tv, you can vote on the numbers 0800 211 381, satisfied, 0800 211 382, ​​dissatisfied, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next up is glen grant, retired british army colonel, military expert. mr. colonel, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. mr. colonel, in ukraine they are waiting for the resignation of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine

valery zaluzhny, president zelenskyi says that, obviously, the rotation will affect not only zaluzhny, but also others leaders, including the army, of some power bloc, as he said that... yours will change after the resignation of the head of the armed forces of ukraine, how will this affect the situation on the russian-ukrainian front, and is it advisable to replace a hard-working one during the war? first of all, he wants, when we talk, actually, if it is about resignation, yes, then he will not go himself, so it is not... resignation of his own will, of course, he would not want to go alone, of course, this is about release, yes, about the fact that he will be released, important... that he is very

a powerful motivator in our country, there is no better person than him, and of course, to replace him at such a moment, when such a rather stressful moment, a difficult moment, it is not appropriate to make such a decision, i have already said many times that a lot of his generals do not work like that , if they could, and of course there are many different things, well of course they can. yes , there is a lot to work on and of course there are good moments and bad moments, of course, if he, if he is fired, then we will lose, ukraine will lose a great motivator. mr. colonel, as it were you characterized the role of zaluzhny, the time

of the great war, because one way or another, well , we will have to sum up, as i understand it, the activities of valery zaluzhny, what the ukrainian army gained together with zaluzhny? i think that the first thing that the army believed in during the time of the brave man, they believed in the fact that the brave man... covered his rear, he loves his work, you can see it, you can see how much fire burns in his eyes, this is the warmth that comes from him, and indeed it is very important to the morale of any army. mr. colonel, volodymyr zelenskyi in an interview to italian journalists called the situation at the front stagnant due to delays in the supply of western military equipment. let's listen. what

did volodymyr zelenskyi say? as for the land line, are you correct? and there is stagnation, right? yes, and and and this is a fact, why? because there was not enough, there was something missing, sometimes you think that here is this date, here they will go ahead, i believe that in terms of the quantity from... poor ammunition, there was a delay, and the delay is a miscalculation, but to be honest, well, we are not fighting with just a terrorist organization, we are fighting with terrorists, who are one of the largest armies in the world. mr. colonel, do you agree with the president's conclusions that

there is stagnation at the front, on land... ukraine? well, there is no stagnation, but of course there are specific areas where the russians are trying very hard, and breaking through the defense line is not stagnation, and there is no stagnation in the south either, for example, in the kherson area , you can see how they are leading. battles for gaining a foothold on the banks of the dnieper, but of course, now we understand what is going on, all such statements now will be about the fact that the western partners are not they help quickly, but i want to say, in fact, ukraine has done very little to produce weapons on its own, so we know that drones are produced, but i have already repeatedly

spoken about... that it is necessary to look for something new, invent something new, manufacture, to work at high capacity, to switch to military rails, so here you know, you can throw arguments at each other, but we understand that the supplies are quite slow, but ukraine has already received a lot, unfortunately, the government of ukraine acts extremely slowly, and that's why it's really interesting when the replacements will happen, whether the experts will know how to act, mr. colonel, zelensky says that ... the lack of western military aid affects the front, and this is a completely clear conclusion, and obviously this conclusion is before the congress of the united states of america, the issue of providing aid to ukraine in the amount of 61 billion dollars. in your opinion, if congress does not pass this decision, what consequences do you think it could lead to?