you need to push a much bigger person behind you, it is very difficult, especially when a person is wounded, he is weakened, i know, just like a log, and there are very stressful situations in which it is very difficult to make such decisions, because the battle is a non-standard situation, this is not at all what you are taught in a unit or in educational institutions that generally teach civilian medicine, or even military medicine, our battle is not over yet, it continues, we... must hold on, study and do everything for our victory. hello everyone, this is svoboda live. biguus-info journalists were monitored by individual employees of the sbu, and therefore it is not necessary to cast a shadow on the entire service, which effectively counters russian aggression. this is the opinion of vasyl malyuk, head of the sbu. but bigusinfo, which was monitored by operatives, does not believe in this.

they say that the order to monitor journalists could have come even from the president's office, so what was it really like? my name is sashko shevchenko and we are about to start, but before that i would like to ask you to like this broadcast so that more viewers can join it. today, the head of the sbu, vasyl malyuk, was summoned to a report to the verkhovna rada in connection with the wiretapping of journalists of the biguzinfo project by the special service. and soon a separate statement of the child appeared on the website of the sbu. he swooned in it. that the journalists were monitored by individual employees of the department for the protection of national statehood, at the same time , it follows from this statement that neither malyuk nor his deputies allegedly knew that sbu employees had allegedly distributed video materials, which were then used to try to discredit the journalists. unfortunately, countermeasures are organized drug crime led not only to receiving information about the involvement of one of the editor's operators in posha. narcotic

substances, as well as public distribution of video materials. the actions of individual employees cannot erase all the positive results of the sbu during the war and cast a shadow over every representative of the service. so, the biguzinfo team found out that they were being watched by employees of the security service of ukraine, namely the department for the protection of national statehood. according to the investigation , the sbu officers installed hidden cameras in hotel rooms for editorial monitoring. these cameras filmed the rest of the team in a hotel complex in the kyiv region at the end of december 2023. journalists identified specific employees of the special service, who did it and how and when these cameras were installed? journalists also showed that operatives were interested in the rooms where the biguz-info team stayed. well, after the release of the material, the sbu reacted and noted that the covert filming was conducted with the aim of countering organized drug crime. and the purpose of

monitoring journalists was allegedly to expose suppliers of narcotic substances. denys bigos himself formally admits that he does not know who could have given the order to monitor his team, but he does not believe that the department of national statehood protection could have acted independently. instead, bigus says that dozens of his informed interlocutors indicate that such an order could have been given in the president's office. i could now tell the story that was brought to me. dozens of interlocutors. in this story, in the president's office, somewhere on the floor where yarmak sits, the idea appeared that, what are they showing bad things about us, let's also show something about them, and after that the task was transferred to the sbu, which is like, oh, we have a special media department here, let them do something. well, in the department of mdznd, as they say, in moderation. their

powers and competences. at this moment , there were no public comments from the president's office on this situation, and rfe/rl also appealed to the president's office with a request to join our airwaves and comment on this situation, but today the president's office did it, but could not do it. journalists bigusinfo also called a sbu employee named ihor, who allegedly oversaw the operation to track down journalists. here's how the journalists identified him and talked with him... let's start with the conductor, this whisper igor, what we knew about him, and frankly we knew very little about him, the name, maybe not real, the car, an old black skoda with license plates the cover, the phone number of this one-time seven, and there was already a clue, because yes, he used it for a very short time, but someone caught him write in the phone book of the stego, ihor sbu,

i agree, this is just one tag, but he has already given an understanding in which direction to look, then there is a lot of hard work. a little magical magic, and get acquainted, this is our igor, yes, his name is really igor, here without a beard, but eyebrows, oh, those eyebrows, in the passport it is written as kravchenko, the children's vk page was also signed, then igor grew up and went to encrypt. in a more recent, but already closed vk profile, he was called ihor kyivskyi. in the service for recognizing phone numbers signed himself as the prince is great, but much more interesting, how his real permanent mobile number was signed by other people, sit down, the list is long. igor, security service, igor, sbu. sbu kravchenko, ihor borisovych, ihor kravchenko, sbu. clown. but which sbu exactly?

most of these tags. ihor borisovych, dznd. simply. dznd igor kravchenko. m. dznd is without a doubt the department for the protection of national statehood, and m. the office for media work is part of it. but we will talk about them later, now we will finish with igor. too bad too was found written, however, not for igor, but for his mother. but he constantly uses recorded ones. she has a car, mom had an infinity, son has a tag - ihor kravchenko infinity, mom has a chrysler, son has a tag - ihor chrysler polch. now the mother has a black skoda, and the son has a tag - tipulya on a skoda superb. hello, good afternoon, i

need ihor borisovych kravchenko. who? my name is lesya ivanova, i am a journalist of the bigusinfo editorial office. we are currently investigating the illegal surveillance of our newsroom. this last december in ukrainian village complex. please tell me what you personally did there and who gave you the order to monitor our editorial office. the security service of ukraine also emphasized today that all the employees who monitored biguzinfo were fired, and the prosecutor general's office announced that their actions will be investigated by the sbi. anastasia osenko, biguz journalist, is already in touch with us. info anastasia, good evening, good evening, and we have repeatedly heard from journalists, from materials and from and from experts, as well as that the sbi is not an independent body, presumably, but dependent on the office the president in this context, should we expect a qualitative investigation of the case, in

your opinion? well, look, our case is being investigated as of now, or rather, was being investigated as of this morning, by the security service. of ukraine, which was registered under article 359 of the criminal code of ukraine regarding the installation of eavesdropping devices , the illegal installation of surveillance devices, and in this case, er, for the three weeks during which the case exists, we have not been recognized as victims, and there is also a case in the national police, which is registered under by our statement, by the statement of our journalists about interference in private life, and as far as ... i know, a case from the sbu was transferred to the sbu, which specifically concerns the illegal installation of listening devices, and how the investigation will continue, i do not know, we also today only we found out that the case is being transferred to the sbi, so

we haven't had any contact with the state bureau of investigation yet, but i actually remember from the comment of your colleague, ms. alisa yurchenko, that... it seems that your team has more hope here on the police, taking into account the fact that if the sbu investigated the actions of presumably its own employees, there is a question of conflict of interest, and the same is true of the sbu , well, it is not clear whether there will actually be any desire to investigate effectively, whether the team discussed to what extent a good and appropriate investigative body for this , well, look at the fact that the case was transferred to the sbi, it is actually obvious, because the service without... cannot investigate the actions of its employees, this is a direct conflict of interest, so it is obvious that the case went to the sbi. concerning what happened during these three weeks, as part of the proceedings opened by the security service of ukraine, here it is worth emphasizing one very important point, which we

also voiced in our broadcast published yesterday, that is, the video on which was published various anonymous telegram channels and... and sites of unknown origin, which were actually posted and called compromising on our team, were published on january 16, january 17, ah, the sbu has already registered a criminal case, and on the evening of january 17, they went to the complex ukrainian village, to carry out certain investigative actions and also to seize the server on which the cameras and video from the surveillance cameras were stored, and which we received a little earlier, but they did not know about it, so we quickly went to seize this server, which can also indicate that what they wanted to replace. their tracks when they realized that they could be caught on video surveillance cameras. we will follow

the progress of this investigation. anastasia, what do you think of the comment of the head of the sbu malyuk, in which he says that the fact that the sbu was watching you in within the scope of surveillance within the framework of the proceedings to fight drug crime, not to discredit your team and that the allegedly unacceptable actions are only this distribution of a video in which your employees. are using drugs, look, when we saw this video, we immediately contacted, our lawyers immediately addressed relevant requests to the office of the general prosecutor, to the national police, to the security service of ukraine with the question of whether there are active members of our team, as well as already former members of our team who were released after this clip, involved in any criminal cases, and also whether there were court orders against us regarding nsrd, because to install... a camera in each house of this complex , a separate court order is required, and we did not receive

answers to these questions , more precisely, received an answer that we were not involved in any criminal cases, so this may indicate, well , i don't know that it is possible that all these measures carried out by the security service of ukraine, they did not contain any legal basis. indeed, i am here for our viewers i will also emphasize what is in the comments today. head of the sbu, vasyl malyuk, said that the bigusinfo operator was allegedly involved in the distribution of narcotic drugs. here is a verbatim quote from him from his comment today. anastasia, the editor-in-chief of your project, denys bigus, in fact, in the material you published yesterday, says that there are not many options for who could give the order to monitor you, and they all boil down to either the president’s office, or actually the highest leadership of the sbu, and not only at the level of the department itself. what do you think will someone from the president's office or

actually mr. malyuk be able to take responsibility for such a decision on his body, we see that the baby, that the baby has probably somehow distanced himself from this responsibility, well , look, i would as well you, and we all would like to see the investigation of this story continue to develop, because the fact that we showed in our investigation yesterday the direct perpetrators who followed us, it also suggests that there are other people who organized all of this, who gave certain instructions, and unfortunately we don't know these names, so we want to hope that the law enforcement authorities will be able to find out. i would like to remind our viewers that rfe/rl appealed to both the president's office and the security service of ukraine with a request to join our airwaves today, so that they would have the opportunity to answer these questions and suspicions, about direct orders from... from high offices, but they could not join our air today, we will be glad to see them, if not

today, then on other days. anastasia, let's go let's try to remember what biguzinfo materials could, so to speak, not be liked by someone at the bank or the sbu? well, that's a very strange question, because we've done in all the years of work, it's 10 years, ah, a lot of material, and including in... the last four years that i've been working in the team, we've done material that concerned all political parties, and various law enforcement agencies, law enforcement structures, and the office of the president of ukraine directly, so i don’t know what to answer here if you want to ask about which of the people involved could to take offense at the investigation about myself and make such a story, then i have no answer here. because we were investigating various bodies and various people, and

anastasia, well, i understand that really and since the work of biguz.info goes on for a long time, and actually, as the representatives of your team noted, this surveillance probably lasts a long time, then really here one can only guess which of the materials someone could be offended by. anastasia, at the very end i want to ask, do you have any plans to investigate further? this story, since we are not we waited for the results from the law enforcement agencies, but it was you who was able to provide evidence that your team was monitored by representatives of the sbu, should we expect further work from? you and the publication of new information about that, about this case? i can say that we continue to carry out our work, our investigation in the usual way, and we also continue to keep our finger on the pulse of this story in particular. if any information appears, we will publish it. thank you very much, thank you for joining our broadcast and

commented on the latest details, in fact, we can say the bigusinfo wiretapping scandal, we were contacted by... anastasia usenko, journalist of the bigusinfo project. well, now let's try to analyze the situation a little more broadly and understand why the president's office does not comment on the scandal, although the injured journalists point to the bank as the alleged client of the surveillance. we are already waiting for our next guest to contact us, please let me know if he has already contacted us? yes, i welcome the executive director of the center to our broadcast anti-corruption. mrs. daria, good evening. good evening. the prosecutor general's office announced that the case of surveillance of journalists will be handled by the state criminal investigation department. and from the explanation of the prosecutor general's office, it follows that the sbi is the body that should investigate the alleged offense, since it is about an alleged offense by law enforcement officers. that is, there are probably no problems with the investigation here, but should

we expect an objective investigation, in your opinion, given the repeated doubts of the ukrainian expert community about independence of this body? there are huge doubts, because if the prosecutor general's office wanted to investigate this case, the sbu officers would not have immediately gone to the hotel to clean up evidence of their presence, but certain measures would have been taken by other law enforcement officers, in particular from the sbu-u, to identify the sbu. which followed the bigus, it is important to clarify that there is one person in the president's office, and this person 's name is oleg tatarov, who is responsible for all law enforcement agencies of the country, and there is a clear understanding among experts that it is oleg tatarov in manual mode who can control

the work of the security service of ukraine, the security service of ukraine, and the office of the prosecutor general. therefore, in essence , we have this... when oleg tatarov from the office of the president instructed the office of the prosecutor general to instruct the security intelligence service to investigate what the sbu was doing, the sbu and security intelligence service are once again under the control of oleg tatarov from the office of the prosecutor general, and that fact looks very depressing , which are the journalists themselves. detected those who illegally followed them faster, and the journalists conducted their investigation much faster and found out who organized the cameras in the hotel, the cameras that followed journalists who organized wiretapping and posted everything on

the internet, this is concrete evidence that leads to the security service of ukraine, and only after that... there is some kind of lackluster reaction, but the reaction of the security service of ukraine is the most interesting, that is, they , instead of admitting their guilt, they said that, yes, they were investigating illegal drug trafficking there, that's why i don't believe in the investigation of either the sbi or the general prosecutor's office, obviously, the traces lead to the president's office. and those who controlled by law enforcement agencies, will not investigate themselves. i will remind you once again, it is already important, that we appealed to the president's office and the security service of ukraine with a request to comment on the situation on our airwaves, they could not join our airwaves, we will continue these attempts, because indeed, daria kalynyuk in just now, her colleague vitaly shabunin said

that this whole story could have been inspired in the president's office. daria, what about you, well, you already. they started talking about it, there is communication from the sbu, i will remind you that chairman malyuk, as if he removed the responsibility from the top management for this alleged pressure on journalists, and put it, and i will quote, on some employees of the department of this service. malyuk had to resign after such an investigation and after concrete evidence provided by journalists about the role of the sbu in the illegal surveillance of journalists. in which surveillance organized by 30 plus employees of the security service of ukraine obviously could not appear without the approval of the top management. and if so surveillance appears without consent, then the question is how the processes are organized in the top management of the security service of ukraine, so

there are not enough statements by the sbu that some individual employees misbehaved there, this is serious power, access to private life, to personal correspondence, to communications to housing, and a rented hotel room is housing. of a private person, access to this information cannot be organized just like that without the approval of senior management, usually such access is organized by a court decision, therefore malyuk must provide information, and how did the employees of the security service of ukraine get all these accesses and who gave the sanction for conducting such, by the way, very badly organized special'. operations mr. and mrs. daria, today i saw many posts on social networks about what the minister of justice himself says about this, that yes, this

situation is very, quite shameful, but there are certain successes in the security services of ukraine, there are departments, and in fact, denys bigus himself says about this in this material that he was not impressed, he observed the special operations of this services, you say that mr. malyuk should resign, don't you, he's not here. problems with the fact that it is possible that it was because of this leadership that such successful operations were carried out, and this could be detrimental? the security service is a large organization, a large mechanism, there are obviously effective operations carried out in the security services of ukraine, but it seems to me that in the security service there are several parallel departments that exist in different worlds and fight with different enemies, there are really ours opera and specialists who can perform special operations against the enemy in the rear the enemy, in the occupied territories, but those 30

people and the leadership that allowed them to monitor journalists' bedrooms, they discredit our entire security service of ukraine and they discredit the heroism and effective work of specialists who are very useful. war , i am convinced that if the leadership changes, the effectiveness of those who work in the war will not suffer much, but the new leadership should be required to clean up other departments that are looking for enemies in the rear among journalists, investigators who expose corruption, which exposed abuse of office, power, embezzlement of state funds. in your opinion, should the president's office comment on this scandal, or should we wait for their reaction? well, of course, that’s how they took it at first , they commented on their anonymous telegram channels, then they spread the video from which

there was, which was aimed at discrediting journalists, now they have to comment on everything, it’s good that there was a statement by the president a few weeks ago or a week therefore, in support of journalists and... the statement explained what is unacceptable for ukraine such surveillance of journalists , investigators, here, but in addition to statements there should be actions, i.e. where are the actions of the president and the office of the president, in relation to the security service of ukraine, i.e. how should the security service of ukraine be punished, who gave instructions, who organized this discrediting campaign. i absolutely agree with denys wills that without instructions from above, it is unlikely that such a special operation would have survived. daria, let's talk about

the statehood protection department itself, according to the sbu, its employees monitored journalists within the framework of the proceedings about drug crime and should this department of the security service of ukraine deal with drug crimes at all? i don't know what the state defense department is supposed to do. if this is the state protection department, the e-media department, then how are drugs here, that is, how do drugs affect the media, or how do the media use drugs, that is, the official position of the security service of ukraine is not involved here, and in general, well, drugs should be dealt with by the police of their consequence, of course partly the police can... uh manage there and get help from the security services for operational-rosh activity, but just a legend created by the security service of ukraine

alibi. doesn't work, it's very weak, let 's really focus on the department again, as denys bigus himself actually says in his work with the media, he points out that this department probably does not perform its direct powers very well, in general, why is such a department needed , we are talking about information security, what could the sbu do in such a case, precisely anonymous telegram channels, which... investigators, this department should be doing, but, unfortunately, instead, this department is engaged in creating content for anonymous telegram channels, so, you know, before the full-scale invasion, we very carefully analyzed the media that belonged to viktor medvedchuk at the time, collected content that fully corresponded to the kremlin's narratives,

constantly. they complained to the security service of ukraine and the general prosecutor's office, demanded criminal proceedings against viktor medvedchuk, it was still about a year before the full-scale invasion, but there was no activity or activity from the side we did not see the state protection department of department m in this direction. ms. dari , the very end, in your opinion, how can this story end for the president's office, for the leadership of the sbu, because we see, in fact, well, it seems that... many are taking the side of journalists, so will they demand some kind of responsibility from these bodies? we are waiting for the results of the investigation, which should show who was the customer, we have already seen the performers, but this investigation was done by the journalists themselves, and we will see, compare what, what kind of investigation will be conducted by the office of the prosecutor general and the state bureau of investigation, but i am convinced that, unfortunately, we will not see the real customers there, unfortunately, we will not

see the top management. security , without which i am sure, such a sanction would not have been granted, but all roads lead to oleg tatarov, the deputy head of the president's office, andriy yermank, and as long as oleg totarov is in the position responsible for the justice of president zelenskyi's policy, no one will believe in effectiveness, impartiality of it investigation. moreover, no one will have a guarantee that similar surveillance is not carried out in relation to others. journalists , including activists, this is extremely harmful to our country in order to maintain the degree of trust of our international partners in us, because the case, discrediting journalists, attempts to follow them, follow them, break into their, try to break into their apartment , as it happened, in relation to yuriy nikolov, all this is very closely communicated.

and considered by our international partners, international journalists, a moment when we are completely dependent on armed aid and financial aid from the countries of the west, we cannot slide into a situation where we turn into an autocracy, that is, we need democracy and it makes sense to trust us and invest in our victory, thank you very much, we contacted the executive director of the anti-corruption center darya kaleniuk, we talked about the wiretapping scandals. journalists of biguzinfo and about its possible consequences. thank you. well, indeed, cases of pressure on journalists definitely do not add points ukraine, especially when it comes to its desire to join the eu. this was said by the special envoy of the czech ministry of foreign affairs on eastern partnership issues in an interview with radio liberty. the day before , i asked the diplomat how surveillance of journalists could affect the negotiation process with the european union. and this is what he answered. of course, it has an effect, because the first block of questions

is about... the negotiations will begin, it is called fundamental rights, democratic rights and democratic values, and all these are the moments when some such things will be applied against the media, against journalists repressive methods or not illegal methods, then it will really be under the microscope of the european commission and the eu member states, because it all contradicts this principle of the rule of law, and we see it even within the eu, we have had proceedings. against slovakia, sorry, against hungary and against poland, now if similar processes will start in slovakia, then the european commission has already said that it can also start such procedures in the same way, if the situation of monitoring the rule of law in slovakia, so of course there will be and always with...