oleksiy holobutsky, we will talk about everything, it will be interesting, don't switch, stay with us. mobilization, what will change, who will serve. we analyze in today's issue of bbc ukraine, i am olga polomaryuk. next, the relatives of the soldiers demand to replace them at the front with fresh forces, and whether there will be demobilization, what about the new draft law, military analysts think. ukrainian troops need people. this is what experts say.

the military command insists on this. it is the personnel problem, along with the shortage of ammunition, that is gradually coming to the fore plan for the armed forces of ukraine. what to do and how to solve the problem? for several months, both the parliament, the cabinet of ministers and the ministry of defense have been thinking about this, and now, after discussions to the point of justification, even scandals, the situation seems to have moved from a standstill. today , the verkhovna rada adopted the first reading of the draft law on strengthening mobilization. in short. what will change? most importantly, the draft law proposes to lower the age of mobilization from 27 to 25 years, the concept of the conscript's electronic account is also introduced, it must be created by all military obligations, while the procedure for serving a summons is substantially simplified, and for the first time it is proposed to allow the mobilization of previously convicted persons, and the concept of term service is proposed to be abolished altogether, which is important, this

draft law provides for demobilization for the first time. those who have served in the army for the past 36 months will be able to be released. the idea of ​​demobilization of serving military has long been supported by head valery zaluzhnyi, but only if the situation allows. my colleague, bbc correspondent halyna korba explains that may change. the key changes proposed by this draft law are, among other things, introduced for the first time. the concept of demobilization for those who have served for a long time, that is, after 36 months of continuous service , theoretically, current military personnel will be able to be released, but of course the main function of this bill is to strengthen the requirements and simplify the mobilization of new recruits in principle, i.e., firstly, the age of mobilization is reduced, they will be called up not at the age of 27, as now, but from 25%. in addition

, the so-called electronic one is introduced the conscript's office, where all conscripts will have to update their data, indicate where they now live, etc., and it is there that you will also be able to receive a summons from the territorial recruiting centers. and in addition, a very important innovation of this draft law is actual sanctions for evaders. if... a military obligee, in the opinion of the tsc, will systematically avoid receiving a summons, from appearing at the tsc on time, and the tsc will be able to go to court, and the court in a fairly short period of time can introduce such a a serious package of sanctions, we are talking about a ban on traveling abroad, a ban on using vehicles and even seizure of accounts, well, you can read the extended article. on our website bbc.ua. and now

let's continue the conversation together with ato veteran yevhen dykiy, who is in touch with us. i congratulate you. evgeny, since christmas they have been talking about a new draft law, it has been drafted and finalized. what do you think of this draft law in general, what did you see in it? i saw in him the maddened reluctance of our civil authorities to take responsibility for the implementation mobilization ot. i saw in him the worst form of populism, that is, when our civilian government actually tries, first of all, to transfer the problem of mobilization to the army, although it is not actually a problem of the army, but a problem of the ukrainian rear, the civilian part of society and the civilian government, and the fact that fear to lose ratings, the fear of somehow annoying the evaders and their families, unfortunately, prevailed. the fear of being occupied

by russian troops, i still see this bill as very weak, moreover, to be honest, its first draft was also weak the version that was contributed for a month. therefore, but the new version that passed the first reading today, it is even more emasculated, i would even say castrated, even compared to the version of a month ago. even so, yevgeny, i would like to go through with you briefly, perhaps on several points, on the draft age, what do you think of the idea of ​​lowering the draft age, this initiative, if i am not mistaken, has been signed by the president since the summer, you were in favor , yes, and why, and he, and he was afraid to sign it. that in general, well , to be honest, first of all, the idea itself is more than obvious, and why, by the way, 27 years old and why 25 is completely unmotivated, in general , a person's duties are closely related to his rights, i do not know of any rights of

ukrainian citizens that would be acquired only after reaching 25 or 27 years, the absolute majority of rights are acquired at the age of 18, some rights are acquired at... 21 years, so why the obligation should come much later is completely incomprehensible to me, but this norm in itself, well, it is not about anything reasons, this is if all the guys from 27 were already serving in us, and there were not enough people, so it was necessary would lower the bar to 25, then there would be nothing to waste time on and to discuss, but excuse me, we have the absolute majority of conscripts aged 27, 30, 35. the absolute majority do not serve and are not even on the register, and from the fact that we will expand this category also to 25-year-olds, they will not register and will not go to serve. yes, if i am not mistaken, even ben wallace once said, yes, that the average age of the ukrainian military is 40+, in relation to demobilization, i even from

myself, excuse me, i even add from myself that according to my, let’s say, observations, even 50 plus, i recently visited my brother, who is now in the hospital without a leg, i will recover. he commanded a platoon of 30 people, but in their platoon there was one thirty-year-old man, whom everyone called the kid, because all the rest were over 50, so of course, with age, well , i would like to talk more about demobilization, as the situation at the front will change , if the men who are currently fighting are replaced by new mobilized ones in your opinion, well, of course it will change for the better, but the only thing i really see in this bill is really serious, weighty progressive this is precisely the introduction of the norm on the maximum term of service, because a person should not buy a one-way ticket, people should not be divided, as is now the case with those who put on a uniform and possibly for life, if the war ends in a year, well, lucky if the war will end in 10 years, so it's bad luck,

a person should know that he will serve his time, and even if the war continues, he will return home, and he will be replaced by others who were behind him in the rear for all these years, this is the most important thing in my opinion norm in this law. but this norm should also be improved, because those who wrote this law clearly do not understand that 36 months of service in, for example , the uzhhorod tsk, 36 months of service, for example, as a clerk in a military unit, and 36 months in an assault unit in avdiivka, these are very different 36 months. this was clearly written by people for whom, in principle, life is divided into horror, service and non-service. and it's actually not like that. ago. this norm should be supplemented by the norm on the combat coefficient, i.e. the total service life of 36 months, and this term is really, it is already a reasonable compromise, we cannot afford less service life, it is unfortunately true, but at the same time, a day in battles should be counted as two or

three, and then everything falls into place. thank you for your opinion, veteran atoy yevgenda, who was on our air, thank you. the problems of mobilization in ukraine are commented on from abroad, they say that the armed forces need to be replenished, and there are not enough hits willing to fight. bbc news night political editor mark urban has recently returned from ukraine. he studied the positions, those who demand reform of the legislation on mobilization, those who criticize the slowness government and representatives of the ukrainian authorities. and then, his report. a different time has come, come.

our soldiers have been fighting for two years and they deserve to be replaced by others. the goal is to win, and we cannot win with wounded, tired, and exhausted soldiers. so far , there has been little progress in this regard, but all this is happening at a time when ukrainian generals and the authorities are debating how many people should be drafted into the army in the next wave of mobilization. on social media, campaigners are sharing videos of people having their say a protest to the military, who are looking for those who evade service. meanwhile, ukrainian deputies are discussing the draft law. regarding the staffing of the army. this is a question for

the president, the parliament, and the government. i think sometimes we try to avoid this topic, so this issue has become very sensitive. the armed forces said they needed 500,000 soldiers to replace the dead and to send home exhausted troops and form new units. parliament and the government do not want to call up such a large number. mobilized because they are afraid that it will hit the economy and will be unpopular. after all, generals are always looking for numbers that impress, but the most important element is different. the most important thing is that as long as the people of ukraine believe that the country needs to be defended, we will continue to fight, and now i see polls and i see that people want... the country to continue to be defended, this is boryspil

near kyiv, where local men are accepted for military service colonel, head of the local territorial procurement center explains the system, which is still mostly based on paper and from which thousands of those who do not want to serve successfully evade. he hopes that the new law will make it possible to summon dovi'. so, the question remains as to how many servicemen the ukrainian army will really need? so the authorities faced a situation where hundreds of thousands of exhausted soldiers still cannot be demobilized, and hundreds of thousands are needed to replace them and possibly even increase them. army, if this is not resolved soon, the options for the

2024 military campaign will be limited. so, the bill on mobilization passed first reading, amendments can be made to it within two weeks, but there are a lot of complaints about the project, which is exactly what causes contradictions, my colleague concludes. key changes, if they will be implemented. will refer to the provisions that have already caused a lot of criticism, and there have already been many remarks from the obbutsman, and regarding the fact that the draft law can theoretically violate human rights, and he has the most complaints precisely about the so-called electronic office of the conscript, because in his opinion the law cannot force citizens go so to speak electronically, receive a subpoena there, keep some data there, etc., and there were comments on the draft law in terms of corruption

risks, the anti-corruption committee of the parliament has already stated that they will have quite a lot of claims and changes, especially in , which concerns the rights of the tc, because now, according to the current wording, the tc, in order to... impose sanctions on evaders, must go to court, but at the same time , there remains a fairly wide space when the tc can alone complain about some and ignore others , and here there is a rather strong corruption risk, and most likely, legislators will play with these norms, that is, how they will receive summonses, what will be the mechanism for delivering conscripts to the tcc, and how will impose sanctions? well... that's all for today, look for more stories on our website bbc.ua, as well as on our

social media pages. we're back on the air tomorrow, all the best. greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the verdict program, this is the second one. ours issue, my name is serhiy rudenko, today in the program of the sbu under the cap of bigus, the case of illegal surveillance of journalists is being investigated by the sbu, what the consequences of the scandal may be. zaluzhnyi's incomplete resignation, ukraine is waiting for the announced reset

of the government, who else will fall under the rotation? rebooting the servant. people the scandalous deputy bezugla left the party, will she be expelled from the defense committee? we will talk about all this in the next 45 minutes. i remind you that we work not only on the air of the espresso tv channel, but also on our own platforms on youtube and facebook. for those who are now watching us live there. please like it and also vote in our poll, today we ask you about whether you support zelensky's idea of ​​rebooting the government. so. no, please vote on youtube with the appropriate buttons, or write your comment under this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you support this idea of ​​a power reset 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, it is important for us to know

your opinion. so, today is on our air. political experts of the channel maksym rozumny , doctor of political sciences, mr. maksym, i congratulate you, good evening, and oleg sahakyan, political scientist, head of the united coordination center platform, mr. oleg, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, we are glad to see each other and hear, well, since we are asking our viewers what they think about zelensky's idea of ​​a reset of the government, do you, gentlemen, support the reset of the authorities in... zelensky and do you understand what kind of overload this is, perhaps on the contrary the question should have been asked, do you understand what a reset by zelenskyi is and do you support this reset, mr. maksym, please er, well, it is obvious that we need the details, so to speak, of this reboot, then we will be able to talk more objectively, but to begin with

, we need to understand what power itself is today. its condition, i.e., whether it is a known construction of five or six people, nonames, or about which one can only to guess who these people are, whether we are still talking about state institutions and how they relate to this construction of power, that is, there are still many questions, but answering the second question, it is obvious that i support such a reboot, if... of course , it will bring clarity to what power is today, and actually how it functions, so that it becomes clearer for society. thank you, mr. olezh, and do you understand what kind of reset zelensky is talking about, and is it only a reset of the military leadership ? of ukraine? as far as i understand, no, not only

about the military leadership, at least several tsov will also be reloaded, actually. we have already seen the resignation of mrs. laputina, yes , the minister of veterans affairs, but next to that, if we talk about a reset, the question arises, and for what, for what, because the reset of the authorities is just a mechanism, a tool that can to use in order to change something, and here it is an open question for me, i have not yet heard, apart from general phrases, any normal, clear plan of action or new you. challenges or new tasks for which this is being done , in particular from the ministry of veterans, we did not hear what exactly was not done by ms. laputtina, why the resignation actually took place, what should be done and, accordingly, who will do it, who will come more relevant under these new tasks, and the same in other directions, because currently the question is not so much about restarting the government, but now there is a challenge of reconsolidation of ukrainian

society and government, moving from consolidation to short. war when we could to ignore a lot, to not pay attention to various problems, they did not seem critical to us in order to achieve victory, but now we understand that this is a long war, and this is a completely different regime, and those problems that yesterday seemed insignificant or non-critical , they can become for us a cinder block or an unacceptable obstacle on the way to our victory, and accordingly need to be consolidated and worked out. institutional, normative and informal models of how to achieve victory for both ukrainian society and the ukrainian government all together, because only united elites, united societies. well organized, they are winning the war, but this is the story about the reboot of the leadership of ukraine, it appeared already after

the story with valery zaluzhny unfolded last week with the head of the armed forces of ukraine, that is , how this information appeared, then how this the information was supported there by telegram channels, bloggers, journalists, how it was later refuted, then how it was confirmed by foreign media... mass information and then recognition zelensky, what he said, yes , perhaps such an option is possible, but we are talking not only about one personality and not only about valery zaluzhnyi, is this a large-scale personnel revolution that zelensky is talking about, or a mini-revolution, or not it is derived from the fact that the issue of zaluzhnyi must be resolved, but it should not be done in such a way that... there is a confrontation between the zelenskyi and zaluzhnyi teams, and it is generally about the fact that we will now sort through the entire apparatus, see how it works , it will work completely differently, and this is the reason, or

let's put it this way, this is the background for the resignation of the hard worker, mr. maxim, how do you evaluate all these information campaigns, first of all, because this is an information campaign, support, information support, because... for now, apart from information support, there are no solutions, except for a statement , which general major laputina herself wrote and resigned? so, actually, the idea of ​​restarting the government, it somehow arose very spontaneously, that is, until recently, in the rhetoric of president zelensky himself, his, so to speak, main speakers. it's not it was about the need to reboot the government , on the contrary, it was about the fact that everything is normal , the government is good, the government is effective, and therefore

it is natural, which leads to the idea of ​​a cover -up operation, i would call it that, that is, the operation of such a spin doctor, which allows to hide the true motives , so to speak, and to present the situation in a favorable light that will appeal to the audience, including the media, so to speak, the actors, and there are many indications of this, but perhaps, perhaps, there is a really great need today , well , shuffling a little, what are the cards called, or reshuffle personnel, and quietly , so to speak, under... this sauce, carry out those staff reshuffles that are actually overdue, we understand that zelenskyi's team, the team

of servants of the people, came to power, so to speak, in such , well, i would say, in a not very consolidated form, that is, people were gathered from different spheres from different corporations, i mean in the broad sense of corporations, and some at... some have fulfilled their mission, some are no longer satisfied, and of course such rotation , they are needed from time to time, cleaning, i would that that's what he called it, and today, well, it's such a good excuse to fire a good person and, so to speak, to reshuffle personnel, so far these personnel reshuffles have been done, but it was not under the slogan of rebooting the government. no, since it is a high-profile step, the dismissal of the commander-in-chief during the war, on whom very high hopes are placed in

society, it is clear that some very serious reason is needed for this and a serious information cover. when zelensky talks about rebooting the leadership of ukraine, i always remember the statement of the president of ukraine that there are five...six powerful managers who run the state, and these are five or six managers around zelenskyi, and this is actually the leadership of the ukrainian state, mr. olezh, will this major reboot affect these five or six managers , because we must not forget that 5 years of zelenskyi's presidency, that is , the finish line of the five-year term, is coming to an end, and it is obvious. it is necessary to demonstrate the unity of the team, or let's say, the renewal of the team, because the same person blinked for 4 years as the prime minister of ukraine, the minister of culture.

it's been seven months since oleksandr tkachenko's resignation. i honestly don't remember the names of many ministers, because even if you kill me, i won't name the minister of ecology, i don't know who the minister of ecology is , or the name of the minister of social policy that i visually remember what she looks like, but this is a unique experience in general, such that, including political experts and political journalists, they are just five or six managers remember and that's all, although the power in ukraine is big enough, that is, it's state committees, and ministries, and vice prime ministers, and in the end the verkhovna rada is big enough for...

the legislative body, the highest legislative body , what are these, what changes are we talking about, i would like to understand your opinion, whether in the conditions of this concentration of power is unlimited, because monopower, it implies monoresponsibility, and here, in principle , it is obviously necessary to say, what if power is in the hands of five or six people, so what are you talking about? reboot say and that these people you'. in this system of power , you know, monopolies are always stereotypical, because absolute power always corrupts absolutely, but they used to say that they wanted to live in a country where you didn't know the name of either the deputy, the minister, or the president, well, that's half a dream came true in ukraine, however, as always, it comes true, it comes true somewhat differently than we would like in terms of form, but not in substance, if we talk about the closest managers

of the president, then... it is clear that at the moment it is not, there is no reason to really expect rebooting in the immediate circle of these persons, but the problem is that it is not even in the figures, let's say the personalities of these managers, in the model itself, because in a short distance, the mobilization of public administration in manual control mode, it makes sense, okay, with our weak institutions, with the fact that part of the apparatus coincided, all other defects... which you and i know very well, concluding with normative and cultural ones, they could really push to the point that it is worth taking the helm in one's own hands and transferring the ship from the regime autopilot to manual control mode, but it is for a short distance, and we see that the war continues, the country needs to live, and what we see with the absence of a whole number of top officials, in particular ministers, that there are discussions about the dismissal of some or

others of ministers, starting with either... holifod, or poslif, or reaching the head of the committee, and there is no discussion of replacements and no discussion of what exactly these replacements are for, this speaks of a crisis of a holistic vision, that is, the old model has exhausted itself, but the new model of a holistic they don't have a vision of it, and accordingly, in these conditions , it is very, very difficult to talk now about which departments will change, where new heads will come, because we don't understand what tasks, we don't understand, and what instead... . will come, and accordingly , then these five or six managers - it is not a question of replacing them, it is a question that if we go into a mode of debt, then we need to resuscitate the government, as an institution that should manage with a certain planning horizon and effort distribution longer than in manual mode, should return accordingly there is a certain level of subjectivity, it is clear that this will not happen at the same time, and now we

will not get the balance in... pravlinsk that was before the war. it is obvious to everyone that there is a position of the supreme commander, it is not there in non-wartime, there is an increased role of the president, a fraction of the supreme commander, all this is absolutely clear, although it may be unacceptable for some, we can argue with some, we can give arguments for and against, but the government it is necessary to return a greater subjectivity, just as in this case we see that and the parliament faces more and more complex and ambiguous issues. the issue of challenges, and the parliament needs to have a greater level of subjectivity and autonomy, at least to be a lightning rod for all authorities, and this was not completely throughout the state, but as a maximum and in order to produce better decisions, better and faster , to react more dynamically to public opinion, feeling, depending on it, because the deputies will be beaten not according to the mandate, and they know it perfectly, accordingly, in these conditions, when we are talking about

reboot, then we need where.