oleksandr motil, historian, political scientist , professor at the rathor university of the united states, we were in touch, now we will be in touch with the former ambassador of ukraine to croatia and bosnia and herzegovina, oleksandr levchenko, we will talk about the balkans, congratulations, sir oleksandr, sincere congratulations, studio, so let's start with this upcoming ukraine-southeastern europe summit, well, in fact , a meeting with the leaders of the balkan countries, this is a completely new form. what can you expect from such a meeting, mr. alexander? well, obviously it's a sequel topics, ukraine's participation in the summit, the european union, the western balkans plus ukraine, we remember that in october, last year, all this happened in greece, in thessaloniki, on the 20th anniversary of the adoption of a historic decision by the eurosystem. that the western balkans will become

part of the european union, and considering that ukraine is also on the way to becoming a member of the eu and together with the countries of the western balkans, will achieve this, and has already officially received this candidate status, it is obvious that this the summit will have a good momentum, above all in the context of the future european integration of the region and ukraine. the second issue is, of course , ukraine's bilateral relations with the countries of the western balkans. the region is not easy, but important, strategic for the european continent. and thirdly, conveying signals about what is happening in ukraine, how the russian aggression is being repelled, how to prevent a solution. a warrior in other parts of europe as well,

because it is possible that russia will try to start a war in the western balkans in order to distract the attention of the european union, nato to several military conflicts on the continent. studio. ugh. and please tell me, mr. oleksandr, that the president of ukraine , volodymyr zelenskyi, can become a co-organizer of the summit, that is, ukraine. as the state obviously plans to be the initiator of this important meeting, what does it have to tell us? well, i have highlighted these three points that are of interest to ukraine, official kyiv, yes, the western balkans can say something in the context of who is their leader in the context of european integration, and we can talk about what,

well, actually speaking , from a historical point of view, this is unlikely, we still use it politically, i can say that the slavs in the balkans, we very rarely use it, i often said this as the ambassador of croatia and bosnia, the slavs came to the territory of the balkans, from the territory of ukraine, and we use this factor very weakly, i.e. ukraine for them, for the slavic countries, is the ancestral homeland, therefore... strengthening ukraine's political ties with these countries would be logical, from a historical point of view politically expedient, economically important and geopolitically important , geostrategically, studio. and how about you in general, do you think that this process of integration of the countries of the western balkans will develop in the near future, taking into account the fact that we see that the differences in views on the region between serbia and kosovo, which is such, i would say,

a sore point of the region, are not decreasing, but are increasing, or so it seems? well, these , so to speak, er, oppositions that exist between serbia and kosovo, they will not go anywhere, that is, the process of european integration, it is going, this is one track, and what is happening in serbian-kosovo relations is track nearby, but of course, to a certain extent, it does not hinder european integration, but the idea is that the western balkans become members of the european union as soon as possible, so that exactly such conflicts and misunderstandings are easier to resolve, because if conditionally and kosovo and if serbia becomes a part of the european union, then this internal problem will be relegated to the second or even the third plan. let me remind you that the leaders of european integration. now in the western

balkans, in the western balkans only croatia has become a member of the european union, apparently. apart from montenegro and north macedonia in addition, it is probably possible to single out the fact that albania has a serious achievement, but serbia would probably go further, and the smallest achievements would be in bosnia and herzegovina. well, when we plan, and we have a lot of discussions about that, all theoretical, of course, but when will ukraine become a member? of the european union, will it be accepted alone, most likely , we will join the european union with some group of countries, then conditionally, if we are talking about the 28-29th year, then it could be conditionally from

montenegro and north macedonia, if we are talking about the 30th, which brussels tells us the most about as a real date, is probably... with albania, whether bosnia-herzegovina will make it too, it's hard to say, well, we haven't forgotten a little about moldova, it's also included in the process, so, so there are countries that are leaders of european integration, as we mentioned with you, north macedonia and montenegro, there are countries that are a little behind for obvious political reasons, in bosnia and herzegovina - this is a constant action of the republic. of serbia, which actually destabilize internal security in ukraine, and this is to some extent reflected in the process of how they fulfill their european integration obligations, studio. speaking of serbia, right?

elections were held there literally on december 17, the european parliament recently issued a resolution regarding the fact that this election process was not conducted under fair conditions. er call for an independent investigation of violations, er, actually serbia remains a country that also has european integration aspirations, nevertheless it receives such comments from the european parliament. mr. oleksandr, tell us in a little more detail what is happening there in general, how legitimately will the serbian parliament and the serbian government continue to act? well, let me remind you. a few words about the fact that the serbian opposition believes that there were abuses during the electoral process of the elections, especially in belgrade, and they believed that in this connection the very results of the votes should be reviewed,

first of all in the capital of the country, meanwhile , we know that the central election commission did not go for it, only a few... nuns were appointed for re-election, well, actually speaking, the majority in the parliament was given to the ruling the party that is actually headed by president vuchich, that is, the elections were early, they were demanded by the opposition, and it turns out that the result confirmed that the ruling party, well, it won the truth in the coalition. again, the most votes, the opposition believes that there were serious violations of a serious nature, and they could affect the counting of votes,

about the fact that, you know, even the osce observation mission did not react very actively to this in the first days, but when the activity showed... observant members of the german and austrian parliaments, then it became more active and european deputies, now you have asked the decision of the european parliament, you understand that, it has a recommendatory nature, but whether it will be implemented will not be a very big question mark, but of course, that all this constitution of that parliament took place, but - it is all opposition considers it not quite legitimate, therefore the process of the opposition not accepting this result as final is still ongoing, and , strictly speaking, the internal political struggle

continues, continues, i would only clarify, i think that a lot has already been understood in this regard, that the opposition does not mean the path to the european union, and it is exclusively about european forces, but the president... his party is exclusively pro-russian, i must say that there are a lot of pro-russian forces in the opposition, well, and in connection with this i personally see the united states of america and am very cautious about all this, because in fact russia has entered these times of political life, it controls the media, many, if not most - well, if not directly, then indirectly, it even has its own

political projects , who entered the parliament now with a small number of deputies, but it is clear that this political project did not fall from somewhere, it seems to be oppositional, but it is clear from its rhetoric that it is pro-kremlin, well, actually speaking, it also affects the position of the usa, which is quite... uh, so cautious about a study of how the opposition works and the struggle against the party of oleksandr vuchich and what is happening there. do you think in general, mr. oleksandr, that ukraine needs to somehow think about what to do with public opinion in serbia, if anything can be done with it at all? ukraine is not some big player in serbia. so that to influence public opinion, the big player there is russia, well, for example, i

work in the balkan direction, every other day i publish my materials in croatia, bosnia and herzegovina, montenegro, and not a single opposition publication in serbia takes my materials, refuses, well, that's for your general understanding, studio. why? well, they believe that they are very anti-russian in nature, they have readers who support the opposition, i emphasize the opposition media, which they themselves call the yellow press, they say that then we have a part of our readers will not read us if we post your materials, that's it, mr. oleksandr, if, if we were not sure of your anti-dew. in a healthy sense from the ukrainian position, the position we would hardly talk with you at all now in this studio,

it is absolutely natural, it seems to me now, unnatural, that they are silent, and what is your attitude, by the way, to this opinion, mr. oleksandr, the president it is better that in serbia the russians are anti-russian and the ukrainians are pro-russian, he said so recently, that in serbia these russians who came to serbia they are anti-putin, and the ukrainians in serbia are precisely pro-putin. he said so , well, they opened it there, medvedchuk opened his public organization in belgrade, by the way, our embassy turned to the ministry of foreign affairs, because it is called so, another ukraine, yes, due to the fact that in the name of the organization the word ukraine, then you have to ask ukraine itself how it relates to this organization, does it have any objections, well, of course, what she said was, sorry, this is not some

ukrainian organization, medvedchuk is not a positional politician, he is a traitor to the motherland - these are two different big things, that's why we demand that this organization be closed, they are offering those ukrainians there, not that they unite politically around them, but , for example, there is some kind of holiday that should be presented. .. children, then call, we will give you these gifts, for the new year, please organize something, there are funds, and so on, so it is obvious that vuchich meant that this organization is active, but is it so massive , well, i’m not sure if there are any sympathizers, medvedchuk, who escaped from ukraine, well, i don't rule it out, but are they in the majority, well, of course, what... no, but are there russians, and there are 100,000, 100,000 russians in belgrade, only in belgrade

, is it putin's opposition, well, well, they go about their business, russia sent 200 fesbeshniks there, fesshniks, not scouts, but fesbeshniks, this is counter-intelligence, yes, who are following these 100 thousand russians, and belgrade, unfortunately, gave them the go-ahead with the fact that they... did not get involved in political projects that are not needed, the russian opposition spent a little more time there six months ago in belgrade. one meeting with the so that they, they feel uncomfortable on the territory of russia, so the russian special services of the serbian special services wrote down everything that was said there, and the head of the special service went to moscow and handed everything over to patrusheva, well, he thanked him, then gave him a certificate and so on. this is

a studio for a general understanding of who is pro-russian and who is pro-ukrainian. we 're going to break now for a couple of minutes, but you stay with us. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them, however, it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events and analyze them. is our future every saturday at 1:10 p.m. with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky on espresso. we continue the saturday political club and vitaly portnikov will now reflect for us on

the main events. well, i'm not saying to teach us to respond correctly to what is happening in the country. beyond its borders, no, in fact, an extremely busy week, and of course, all the thoughts of ukrainians now are about what will happen next, many outline their condition, i am so worried, the last time i was there was on february 24, i understand that it is all emotions, but we are really now in a stage where our military leadership is changing, the president promised that in the political sense as well certain changes should also take place, we will talk about it separately, but with great thanks. valery zaluzhny, we are now focusing on the situation with oleksandr tsirskyi's hate. i do n't know if you, mr. vitaly, are watching this, but it seems to me a very disturbing story, which would only confirm the thesis that you voiced in this studio: the new head will be a hostage to the popularity of his predecessor, so it's clear that there are such people, how dangerous it is for

such a structure as the defense forces, and during the war, and for the new head. who should be focused on fulfilling his tasks, and at least there is no corresponding trust from society, well, this is an objective reality, ms. khrystyna, we talked about it, i said that there is a simple formula, if there is such trust in valery zalozhny, maybe someone considers it excessive there, but it is related to the first one months of the war, when many ukrainians believed that the russians were about to be in kyiv, which they would capture. the country, that they will destroy the ukrainian state, and they were stopped by the army led by valery zalozhny, and volodymyr zelensky himself was one of the authors of this idea of ​​reality, that the army is our main strength, all that we have , he said so at the time, everything we have means that if valery zaluzhnyk leads the army, our president organizes aid to ukraine, everyone said, what is the main merit

of the president, he does not command the troops, he mobilizes the whole world to help ukraine, well, moral. the leader of the civilized world, as we liked to say, well, this is the moral leader of the civilized world, and this is the person who leads the army that stopped the influx. in principle, volodymyr zelenskyy himself should understand what kind of society he is dealing with, because if it were a different society, he would now be leading the troupe of the 95th quarter, and not the president of ukraine. society mythologized him, invented him, gave him those features that it would like to see in to a person who is in... the state and voted for him for the position of president, despite all the convictions that the hopes of the vast majority of people, who they invested in this figure, will not come true, but will be this, that and this, what happened , the president himself once summed it up, i would say, in one of his speeches, he said that what they say there, what they will say, that if he is elected

president, there will be war, trouble, a dollar of about 40, but nothing happened, well, okay , this is... such a harsh reality, but who said that cannot be extended to some other people, especially in the ukrainian situation, this is not russia, in russia, if they invent a myth, they live with this myth for ten years, and this myth ends after a few years, about two or three, if this is necessary , successors, successors, after being brought to the mausoleum, let 's put it this way... volodymyr lyach lenin was brought to the mausoleum, he remained forever a myth, because stalin wanted it that way. stalin was included in the same mausoleum 30 years later, but as his successor. "oh, and we didn't know who we were

they loved, and why, but by the way , it didn’t work out very well, now the vast majority of russians, as you know, adore stalin, this myth has remained, but despite all the efforts of the state apparatus, further, in ukraine, as you know, elect heitman." immediately , father, the love of the nation, you will save us in two or three years, oh, you scoundrel, you fool, he robbed us, you don't like, you like, that's all this bullshit, but it's so, so, so different society, that's why russia is empire, and ukraine is an anarchist army that became part of this empire, well, that's the story in general is developing, and there is nothing bad or good about it, it is a trend, which means a person who heads such a state. with a tendency to adoration and quick anarchism, must realize that this happens to others and use this trust, as we said, but hope that if you

remove a person from his position at the height of public trust in him, then you can kiss him, give him the title of hero, and the problem is that trust will fall in you and in the person you appoint to the position that was held by this person who has trust, objectively speaking, we are not discuss with... let's say so, draw one or the other, it will not exist, mistakes will be hypertrophied, and successes will decrease, trust is a big thing, i told you, i have already told you many times, and i tell you again, it is any person , who studied at a soviet school, knows that there was a plan in the war between russia and france, the minister of war and the actual commander of the army, the prince. mikhail barclay had a plan to stop napoleon's army, lure it deep into russia, retreat, retreat as far as possible, even

to moscow, and she can disintegrate, and it may lose all its fighting spirit and its main weapons and all its resources and so on, the russians treated this plan, although the situation was catastrophic. the russian empire could simply fall, the russians treated barclay's plan as treason, they said that he was a traitor, that he was german, that he was scottish, well, it didn't matter that he was working for the enemy, he absolutely could not nothing to do, because the commander-in-chief of the neighboring front, let's say, general bagration, said that it was necessary and... you fight to the end, advance, give , the opportunity to meet the french army,

although it was suicide by and large, but in the end the emperor, who was not a brilliant general there either, but understood that it was necessary to somehow rely on the mood in the army, not among the people, the people were like that, you know, in the army of velitsa, he sent mikhail kutuzov there, not to... a more prominent commander among the russians, although he is now, like a horse, the order of kotuzov russia in the world and in the soviet union kotuza differed from barclay in that bu a good man, a russian, a real russian with a good russian pedigree, fully carried out barclay's plan, fully, even a frenchman. in this one lured to moscow with fuel, napoleon died, who became the main

author of this victory? kotuzov, the state tried to give barclay his due, two monuments were erected in st. petersburg, kutuzov and barclay next to each other, it has not affected public opinion until now, pushkin. who was considered a great russian poet at the time, wrote a poem because he wanted to restore justice, about bulklay, about the fact that his unjustly insulted in russia, pushkin was attacked by the whole of russia, which knew how to read that he was a traitor, it was already 20 years after this war, pushkin had to justify himself, wrote a special article, no, i did not mean that, of course, only kutuzov, who had confidence. which people could carry out this plan, that is, it was all complete nonsense, because barclay saved russia on our heads, because he was a great

commander. well, at the level of napoleon, he, and kutuzov was not even there, and you understand that in order to find a plan that can destroy the army of napoleon, who conquered all of europe and was generally the greatest general of the 19th century, in general, in the history of mankind, right next to alexander the great, you had to be a person who thinks in a non-trivial way, to put it mildly, and what, therefore like this story, which should be known, well, everyone who you ... in general, the history of wars is a clear clear answer to the question of what is more important, competence or trust. kotuzev was not competent, lacked trust. well, and now, by the way, when i think that when i say that the cat is incompetent to a huge number people who are older there, i don't know, there are 50-60 years old, who studied in soviet schools, something in their heart trembles, because it is still like saying that there is no god. well, i don't think that

applies. in the church, in the church. not just in no, it is imprinted on a person, you know, even if a person stands up, goes to church service, then becomes an atheist, she still feels stupid when such things are said out loud, she thinks that a person will now fall through the cracks into hell , to hell, i don't say that in the studio, i immediately, i only talk about kotuzeva, this is the focus of this story, he is objectively like that, objectively, we can... talk about general syrsky with great respect for his military successes, we can, if we were with military experts, say that he is there whether he suffered some kind of mistake, it doesn’t matter , it’s the same if we in this studio were to tell you for an hour about zelensky’s political competence or incompetence or non-political incompetence, so what, what does it matter to the people who have him they believe, it is a religious thing when there is in politics a religious motive, it is still... stronger

than any rationality, so i deliberately do not discuss how much the situation will change in connection with the resignation of valery zaluzhny, i generally believe that reading all these opinions that zaluzhny made public in the western media, i perfectly understand that there is no special alternative for any commander , there won't be, because you understand, war is not a series of miracles, it is an opportunity to use chances, and. every chance is used once, but we didn't let our military russians go further to the south, they found themselves in an awkward position in kherson, ugh , from where they could be knocked out, used the moment of surprise in the kharkiv region, because there were many places where you could strike, and it is a huge credit to the syrian general that he used this element of surprise, but how many times you can use the element of surprise, how many times can you scare a person if

unexpectedly... you appear from some bush, well , one, well, the second time he already knows exactly where this bush is, so there is a clear understanding of where the front line is , where the line connection, that is, these are purely technological moments, that is, these are all the effects, they were used, they were used by the russians in february 2022, something worked, something did not work, but it was precisely the element of a surprise attack, at some point the war simply begins, ... attacked the soviet union and used a certain element of surprise on the readiness of the soviet leadership to attack, they reached moscow quickly, literally in a few months, even with battles, but then the armies actually met there, they could not pass further, and the war began, marud.

that's combat work, well, and there's nothing there, relatively speaking, you can do this in stalingrad, you can do this in the kurdish arc, and that's it, and you can't invent anything like that here, you just need to break and the one who finally breaks down, digests the enemy, he wins, or no one can do it, and the army is facing each other for at least 100 years, and this is also not an exaggeration, you know, there have been centuries of war in the history of mankind and there will be still in... in our life, i think, also appear, because this exactly, well, these are simple things like that, again, any person who studied at a military school, and general syrsky studied, he knows that, this is not mathematics, this is arithmetic, not geometry, not algebra, what do you think now to the syriac awareness campaign, i have to ask…