no, well, if everyone understands it, we probably already have bunkers built there, sods, dots , a concrete defense line, because in avdiivka , the defense line built in the 14th, 15th, and 16th years lasted until today, until it was broken underground, and, that is, the russians dug a tunnel, the main intelligence agency, together with our intelligence officers, sorry, screwed up this information, and the russians went to the rear of those defenders who held that concrete line of defense, which is holding 10. years, and it does not remind of anything, i will remind, maybe this someone has forgotten, but i will remind you how tens of thousands of russian servicemen were transferred from ugledar to bakhmut, and the main intelligence agency was engaged in filming a film about the surgical liberation of the island of biyany, because this information was also leaked, and i said how tens of thousands were redeployed, and where is our intelligence, what did it do, this is it, it's not a needle, as they say, in a heap

of sons, you can't hide it, well, 10, 20, 30 thousand military personnel, but now, for example, there is information that 40 00 plus 500 tanks focused on the kupensky direction, there is , please tell me, who heard about the russians throwing up to 40,000 under bahmud, no one heard, they actually saw how much the guys put on, the same now near avdiivka, no one heard about tunnel, no one heard, and why no one heard, what is the news, it was built yesterday, this tunnel from... it was cleared, water was pumped out of it and they went to the rear of our guys. thank you, thank you, mr. major, for the conversation, it was ihor lapin, a major of the armed forces of ukraine, a special officer, a people's deputy of ukraine of the eighth convocation. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, if you are watching us live there, please like this video and also subscribe to our page, our pages. in social networks, in addition

, during our broadcast, we conduct a survey , today we ask you about this, whether you would like to see a useful person in ukrainian politics, yes , no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your opinion, write it in the comments below video, if you watch us on tv, please pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you want to see valery zaluzhnyi in ukrainian politics 0800-211381, no 0800 211 300... 72, all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up this vote. next, we have a politician, diplomat, ambassador extraordinary plenipotentiary of ukraine in the republic of belarus in 2010-11, former representative of ukraine in the tripartite contact group in minsk, roman bezsmertny. mr. roman, i congratulate you, thank you for being with me today by us good evening, mr. sergey. mr. roman, we are witnesses. major reshuffles

, personnel reshuffles in the ukrainian army, i.e. simultaneous, let's say, starting from the commander, ending with the commanders of separate forces and separate directions, what do you think this, such a large personnel reshuffle is related to, how motivated it is now, how much do you think it is looks appropriate, after two years of hard... war, i mean, a big hard war and 10 years of russian-ukrainian war in general? well, there are things here about which a lot has already been said, mr. serhiy, and there are very important points that have been omitted from what has been said about emotional, factual and so on, you can add more, but i would focus, i would suggest that we focus now on things.

what else, which have not yet been discussed, and these are very important things , in fact, this war of the decade is not only a war against our eternal enemy, the enemy, against the existential threat that moscow carries, it is also the revival and formation of the ukrainian army, and ukrainian troops, and... of the ukrainian officer corps, i think i will not open anything new for our listeners if i say that any army is a collection of people who eat if the army does not have properly trained officers, and i want both you and myself now to ask one very important question, now...

quite a galaxy of unique people with experience has been released, i haven't seen a single decree, but where is this experience? will be applied, their general shoots did not appear today, they are in the conditions of this war, some of them passed from the major, but a captain, a lieutenant colonel and so on, that is, these are people whose experience is unique, and i understand very well that the supreme commander, like most of those who today find... in the political leadership of ukraine, never had to read textbooks, books, famous strategists and so on, which described the behavior with the personnel reserve and personnel in the armed forces, thank god, now

there is a discussion about mobilization in ukraine, and i hope that as a result of this discussion, at least ukraine... the parliament, the government, ah, armed forces will come up with some kind of mobilization model, although compared to the classic formulas for training personnel in the armed forces, there is no smell here, it is something new that is born from the pen of those who try to manage these processes, but i want to touch on this issue once again , actually, what about this experience, with these porins, the experience of plowing, plowing with bruised foreheads and so on, how will this experience be used, because i once again emphasize the decrees on the appointment of these people

to command divisions, directions, certain structures, even educational ones institutions i haven't observed it yet, and this indicates that, actually, when we translate this conversation from the point of view of a discussion, and if the situation were to improve, is it an improvement, because the question arises, actually, where will these people go? by the way, i will give an answer now to the listeners, the audience and to both of us, mr. serhiy, because i know a little about how they deal with diplomats, well, in particular, a person who worked as the ambassador of ukraine to the united nations for 10 years, well, as one of best options, he is currently taking a course at one of the universities of the united states of america. this is a better option.

for ukraine, the best thing is when people with such experience as zaluzhny, as naev, as shaptala, may be found. rectors , heads of military institutions, who will invite them to teach, because i wonder where such a person will go tomorrow with his experience, as you understand, sooner or later each of them will need it, and one more thing that i cannot help but pay attention to, because there are many conversations around the name of mr. valery zaluzhnyi, the general, a popular person, an active person, a well-deserved person, and so on, but here are a few moments that i can't help but pay attention to , in fact, how they released naev, who has also been in the army for 10 years, a combat general, a combat officer, well, he learned about his release

from the mass media, well, ah, they all deserved their own. .. by his actions , his work, some thanks, it is clear that mr. general zaluzhnyi said that this is not his award as a hero, but it is everyone’s award, but if you want to thank, well then, what does not deserve thanks to general shaptala, no general naev deserves thanks, and deserves, but this is evidence of what if thought one thing. a completely different thing was done, but the third will actually happen, because the truth of the situation will be seen much further, why i am actually saying this, because i know not only the reaction of ukrainian society, i know the reaction of the west, and

the united states of america, and europe, and at least there, there is no need to slander those who came, and no one is going to slander them, it only hurts me that their fate... their fate will be exactly the same as the fate of the industrious, naeva, they whispered, well, etsera, etse, etsera, ah, but we must understand that each of them already knows this today. yes, in the west as much as possible to which they said, let 's look at the situation, we will work with those who come, with those who are appointed, you know, mr. serhiy, he is saving the west with this position, including those who have now taken and waved the checkers, saber, because i cannot assess what happened in another way, because i say once again, for me... as a person who has worked half his life in the state system, i understand

what it is like for people with ten years of experience, combat experience, now leave it unused, without them working every day, because 10 years of working in the regime, in which a naïve worked, tinned or of a shaptal, it is a hell of a job, and it is a bruising colossal experience. and when i look now at the photo of the president with the newly appointed, i want to tell everyone right away that what i am saying now, they already know, they understand it, and they are looking forward, from here it is obvious that we need to think about how to act with these shots, and more such voroshilov raids with sabers on the shot. as we have now experienced, not to do, because this, this is not even stalinism, because you remember, there

they appointed zhukov to replace malinovsky, malinovsky in place of rokosovsky, rokosovsky in place, and some others, but they were given the opportunity to work, now a dozen generals will be on the street, but after such a colossal experience as these people have. not to use this experience is shameful , stupid, well, i don’t know what else to say in this situation, i’m sorry, so i ask that everyone understand this thing, because it concerns, including those who are currently appointed, and more one thing, they will work with anyone at the event , but one thing is that in 3 minutes to raise. and immediately start working, and it is quite another to enter this process. and when

we had the opportunity, let's say, from the previous chairman of the joint chiefs of staff of the united states of america, remember, in the month of march, in the month of march, he announced that, mark milley, he was going to step down in the fall. i went for six months, six months. the preparation of brown, in order for him to get up to speed, get to know each other, he was taken even before the assignment to ramstein, and now new people have arrived, the situation, they know the situation, they know they have it, they were at the front , they were in these same meetings, but these contacts, ah, will come with time, these contacts will come in a certain... period, and this period, time, time is generally a priceless thing, on war, this, this

, this, this is something incredibly valuable, and from this it is obvious that when they say in the west that we will work, they actually hint that there is a certain gap that will require certain measures, certain actions on the part of all parties , please note that in parallel secretary general stoltenberg stated that it is necessary radically change ramsteino's management approaches. this is not said by chance, because there are two factors: one is created now across the ocean, thanks to donald trump, and the other is created thanks to the actions, well, from my point of view, let's call them false, because if it was necessary to enter. into action, then it was necessary to introduce, as professionals do, in order for

syrskyi to work for three months in this system, external contacts, because it is necessary to understand that there is another factor here: when you manage your own resources, it is good, because you you understand, you see them, you know them, but when you you are in conditions when external resources do not depend on you... because they are external, this creates certain conditions, a certain coordinate system in which you are, and you must work in external communication in the same way as you.. . you work with your subordinates, because you have to understand, and what will be the schedule of supplies, armaments, and ammunition, because what we saw in individual small-numbered speeches, materials about which general zaluzhnyi spoke, there clearly in the subtext between the lines was manifested that so we prepared, we did

but it is so inconspicuously indicated there, but... the beginning was a bit behind, well, it is clear that mr. general felt a little sorry for his partners, for a start i would like, let's say, to indicate these things, because what we are going through, we are going through, but we have to to think about, and what will happen tomorrow, well, here you are, you are talking about the fact that this was a wrong decision, that it was carried out in this way, or is it, is it a strategic mistake of president zelenskyi? because you worked with two presidents quite closely and you saw where they were wrong and where they mistakes were made, because leonid kuchma had his mistakes, viktor yushchenko had his mistakes , what has happened now and what they believe that they have changed all the military

leaders, and that there is no good person with a high rating. trust, it is not a fact that he will not multiply this rating of public trust after that, and we still need to conduct sociology, look again at zelenskyi’s trust rating and at zaluzhnyi’s trust rating, is this not now a strategic mistake by zelenskyi, before he will speak that he will go for a second term because the first term is coming to an end. believe me, mr. serhiy, i absolutely do not care, what kind of field. what will be the fate of zelensky or zaluzhnyi, i will now talk about ukraine, it is important to me that whoever is there, zelensky, yushchenko, poroshenko, kuchma, that these foolish things are not done, well , it is impossible to train personnel in the state at such a price, no you can, because it means we

first apply the colossal ones. to prepare people, and then where do we send them, for whom and for what will they be next live, work and so on, that's what 's very important to me, now one more thing is very important, i don't want to add fuel to this flame that 's burning now, and that's why i don't call it ruder , or if it shouldn't be called, you know, there is another thing that is very important, there are such people, when he is present, everyone will work, everyone will break down, in the end, everyone will give themselves, and the result will be, maybe he himself will not work very well, but people they will believe him, because there is an appropriate reputation of a person, there is an appropriate one, forgive me for what i am

i will say image, because war is a completely different sphere, but yes, there are others... who will work 24 hours a day, fuss, wave their hands, shout, stamp their feet, and the result will be in the sand. from this it must be understood that if there is trust in a person, then this trust must be guarded, it must be protected, because in fact, in addition to the fact that there are powers that no one chose from the supreme ... commander-in-chief, there is also legitimacy, that is, the perception by society of that or another person, this or that decision, action and so on. the situation with the industrious, it goes far beyond the scope powers, competences and so on, this is different, this is a different category of things, but

there was no one to learn from them, there was no one to... learn from, because we live from a clean slate, as a young state, especially since people, who came in the 19th year, they faced problems that for them were, well, mega problems, they were titanic tasks, and therefore it is clear that they had to be solved on the go, it is clear that in such a situation, when this entire galaxy people with unique experience will find themselves... elsewhere, well, it is clear that they will line up applicants for the first papaha. it cannot be otherwise, such are the laws of social life. state machine, politics, but there is one more thing here, there is no politics in ukraine, what is in ukraine cannot be called a masonic lodge,

but it cannot be called politics either, it is something else, political institutions do not work, and we with you more than once on this topic they said, they said, i said, and i will repeat it endlessly, we are building a democratic state in the conditions of... war, i say again, a democratic state, not a totalitarian state, what happened is a classic example of the actions of the heads of state, political leadership for a totalitarian state, in a democratic state such actions, such actions are unacceptable. you already mentioned, mr. roman, how it is perceived in the west, well, of course, the wines. situations and washington , and brussels, and bonn, berlin, forgive me, they say that this is an internal matter of ukraine, and it is clear that, accordingly,

legally and constitutionally, volodymyr zelenskyy has the right to these personnel changes, but we observe that takes place in the congress of the united states of america, and obviously it is not the best time for such personnel rotation, we see how trump is now gaining momentum in the united states. states of america, we see how putin rushes to prove that ukraine does not exist, that he has the right to this part of the globe through tucker carson's interview, we see what is happening, that this is all, what we have been waiting for at the end of the 24th year, it started at the beginning of the 24th year, that is, not at the end of the 24th year, it is already happening to us now, the same trump you mentioned stated that... the scandal is also big in the world about what in his time of the presidency, at one of the meetings with the leaders of nato countries, threatened to encourage

russia to attack those who do not pay the entry or non-entry fees to the north atlantic alliance. let's listen to what he said, because it is also interesting. one of the presidents of a large country stood up and asked: "sir, if we don't pay and russia attacks us, wine." protect me, i asked, you haven't paid, you're in arrears, he said yes, let's say it happens, no, i wouldn't protect you, more than that, i 'd encourage them to do whatever they they want, you have to pay your bills, and the money is gone, mr. roman, how do you feel about what is happening in the united states of america, in relation to what is happening in russia, because it looks like... the way that putin with trump is starting to play a game against biden , against ukraine, and against the whole world, well, trump will then get out of this game, and putin will win

the support of trump, there is carson or someone else there, first of all, i monitor trump's speeches and reactions quite carefully all the time on these speeches and... and the moment that was about it is said that this is the moment of the meeting of the seven, and in this case the conversation was not between president trump and the president of another country, but the conversation was between the president of the united states trump and the chancellor of germany, merkel and merkel, such a conversation was not accidental. these words, which you just showed, now caused a very emotional and lively reaction in germany.

moreover, nato reacted to it, france, germany, and other nato countries reacted to it. it was even reacted to in london, although london usually talks about such things anglo-saxon, bloc of countries or group of ukraine, they were silent. there are a couple of points here that i can't help but notice, because these are two things, actually what you just quoted, and the second thing is that you have to give loans, it's, well, come on, again, i 'm going to use the mildest options, it is somewhat, firstly, taken out of context, and secondly , it is necessary to understand who mr. trump is, this conversation. really took place, this conversation took place on the sidelines, where not only trump and merkel were sitting in relaxation mode, it was not business, it was not for an official meeting, it

just... trump not only communicates in a similar way in such conditions, he is very vulgar, and about this bolton in his book, he describes such things very well, and it must be said right away that he also regretted trump in this book, because he allows a lot of nonsense, but trump allows even more during the election campaign, and... what was said then at the g7 meeting on the sidelines was said from the point of view of putting pressure on the europeans, at that time, i will remind you, only two countries, only two states fulfilled the norms of payment of contributions to the defense budget nato is the first and second, so i want to touch on this issue once again,

as it is titled ... the content that is being transmitted now, and what trump allows himself to say during the elections, i remember this story from that time, secondly, it is the topic of the fact that we do not provide aid to ukraine. and the content of the conversation was completely different, speaking, trump said that it is necessary to work on the lend-lease system. remember, we you, like others, were told that the law on lendlease was adopted, but it did not come into effect. dear listeners, lendlease is translated as transfer for rent.

trump,... looking at the fact that he is a businessman, he is in these military things, well, he floats about, well, like an ax in the water, he does not understand them, and having lost the word lendlease, he began to talk about some kind of lease, about some kind of return, about all these other things, i 'm just saying that during the election campaign, if i hadn't run for office for... times and hadn't heard everything that was being said in ukraine, then i would i took such messages at face value and the headlines that were written based on these signals, but i want to remind you that the lendlease law was adopted, the transfer to rent, i will reveal it now, because we still need to talk about it, we will have it, we will have it there will be another 40 seconds, okay, then another time, actually - the law never

started. they began to provide us with a non-refundable loan and assistance, but mr. sergey, how to provide scrap metal, take what i say, but it is true, instead of starting a lendlease and producing new ones from the workshop, we are fighting on scrap metal for the 10th year , they say the leopard is not like that, but the first leopard is the t-55, and we laugh at the fact that the russians are taking the t-55 to the front. well, mr. roman, we have to end our conversation, sorry, there is not enough time to continue the conversation with you, for an interesting conversation, thank you for the conversation, this is roman bezsmertny, a politician, a diplomat, friends, we are working live and conducting a survey, did you want would you like to see a good man in ukrainian politics, now we will look at the intermediate results of the survey, 43% yes, 57%

- no, these are the results. television survey in 15 minutes we will have serhii taran and oleksiy holobutskyi, don't switch, stay with us. what is happening in avdiivka, whether the armed forces of ukraine could be trapped there, we analyze in today's issue of bbc ukraine, i am olga polomaryuk. the russian military is trying to capture avdiivka, throwing special forces and landing forces there. ukraine. strengthens the city and probably strengthens the position of one of its best brigades, which is currently happening in the city and its surroundings. russian troops have been storming avdiivka since october. city trying to sharpen and cut supply lines. at the beginning of february on russian television even.