do they understand the logic of what is happening in ukraine, and what do they say to you, what do they talk about with you and what do they ask you in private conversations? well, you know, mr. serhiy, foreigners usually behave quite delicately here, because this is a direct competence, but also a direct responsibility of those who make such decisions. they are usually not discussed, because it can be similar to interference in the internal affairs of the state, that is, the president of ukraine has the power to appoint and dismiss the commander-in-chief, other high-ranking military leaders, which he used, but it also means that he took full responsibility for everything that happened. after that, it will not

be the generals who will answer, the responsibility rests solely on him after his decision, our foreign colleagues take it, well, as a matter of course, of course, i repeat again, in the public sphere such things are not discussed, well, when it comes to about some such, well, personal... moments, well, they differ depending on who is involved in such very specific topics, but usually such topics are really discussed not much, but mr. volodymyr, these personnel rotations took place against the background of a difficult situation, when in the congress of the united states of america, the question of providing aid to ukraine in the amount of 61 is being decided. it can be assumed that these

rotations were on time, or did it have to wait and wait for the vote in the senate, well, it took place today, and obviously this bill will not pass so easily in the house of representatives, how can biden's opponents articulate what is happening in our country in order to say: well, listen, it's not there at all.. . what's going on, he changed the head of the armed forces, he changed the entire military leadership, we don't know how to work with them, these are new people, and it takes time, let's postpone it, and this time will be played exclusively against ukraine, it's true, but here mr. serhiy , it is possible to apply the kind of logic that you just spoke about, and the other one, which is to say, look, well, there were certain problems with the offensive, the situation...

actually froze, we need a new look , new approaches, and here the president wants to do such a decisive step, then here, you know, like who on it will depend on what interests this someone can pursue, so the situation, i think, is 50/50 in this case. it's very good that now the senate still voted in favor of... more than 20 republicans voted in support, which means that in the republican party there is, and this is not entirely a discovery of america, there is a very powerful group of sober-minded, intelligent politicians who understand very well the importance of aid for the national security of ukraine, well, the figure that you and i, mr. serhiy , have been talking about for a long time is 5%, military only military

the budget of america and the destruction of half of the ground forces of the biggest adversary of the usa, well, they speak for themselves, that is , there is no need to go to vorozha, it is obvious that by helping ukraine, america is helping itself to reduce the capabilities of its main adversary, so both democrats and republicans understand this , only those for... really dance to the tune of trump, for whom the main goal is not ukraine, not israel, not taiwan, or any other things, but winning the elections, and that is why he will drown everything that, as for the democrats, the democrats support ukraine, so he will be against it, the democrats support israel, will he be against it and so on, that is, this is a

typical internal political... populist politicians put national interests above national interests, it's very... sad, but about the national interests, in particular of the united states of america, i also wanted to mention trump and his statements about nato and how the countries that are members of the north atlantic of the alliance, those who do not pay, or pay their dues to the north atlantic alliance in a timely manner, who say we will not fight, suddenly, suddenly what, and the chairman of the joint committee of the nato chiefs of staff, charles bra'. in an interview with nbc, he commented on these statements of trump, this is actively being commented on in world politics, in the world press, and he, let's listen to what charles brown said. we have an alliance. we have a strong alliance. i think we

have a responsibility to preserve this alliance. in each of our alliances at kona trust to the us, and us leadership is still very much needed, sought after and looked up to. and olaf scholz warned about the danger of devaluation of the provisions on mutual defense of nato, we will also listen. one for all and all for one. any relativization of aid guarantees by nato is irresponsible and dangerous, and corresponds exclusively to the interests of russia. no one should play with security in europe. can we talk about that, sir. that trump is now playing with putin? i think, mr. sergey, that he is playing with biden, after all, and not with putin, putin is the background for him, it is what he uses for his main goal, and let's understand that

only one thing is really important for him, this is re-election as the president of the united states of america, it is related. for many reasons, including his individual sins, of which there are many , including that he wants to secure himself for the next four years, uh, full uh untouchability, uh, full immunity, which is very important, because you know, there's a certain period of time, and what was relevant four years ago is a little forgotten. that is, for for him, it is now a lifeline, so to speak , which must be grabbed and won at any cost, so i think that it is more about his use of all possible and impossible tools, whether it is putin,

whether it is help to ukraine, whether it is help from any to whom, is this a solution to the issue of the border, but listen, well, in fact, there is no serious problem. border, biden agreed that he made serious concessions to republicans on this issue, both in terms of the amount of money allocated and in terms of the substance of the reform itself, which should regulate immigration problems, but biden, sorry, trump does not go for it, why? well, because he wants to hold it as his trump card in the entire election race. the other thing is that he... can play tricks, and now that the senate has voted for aid, when it is obvious that these two topics must be separated, and they are already separated, the border and aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan, now he will be

in a weaker position , because now uh, the democrats are going to attack him at every turn, talking about what we see for, and this... uh, not an adequate politician against, so here the situation, it seems to me, is not clear-cut , it does not mean that johnson's statement today that he will not put it to a vote is final, there are a lot of procedural tools that will force johnson to put it to a vote, and if we consider that in order for this resolution to get a majority in congress, that... that only eight or 10 votes, i 'm afraid i'm wrong now, but a tiny number of republicans, well, you really need a little bit more, because not all democrats want to help the same israel or taiwan itself, but this is really

a pittance for the republican party, there will be many more such people who will vote for it, so let's not give up, mr. volodymyr, on the eve of the hearing. in the senate and in the upper house, the issue of ukraine, and not only ukraine, but israel and taiwan, was thrown into the information space. a big interview of putin, a supporter of trump, and trump and a man who is called the future vice president of the united states of america, tucker carlson, a famous american propagandist and showman, i would say so, and obviously, this interview was not accidentally released these days, and it is not by chance that now putin is trying to transmit his signals in some way. that he is ready for some negotiations there, how did you perceive what putin said, not historical

or pseudo-historical, but what he tried to tell the world and did he succeed in saying something? well, mr. sergey, there are many layers in this question of yours, you are very right when you say that this carlson actually has a person. yum anti-journalism, that is, i think that this one this so-called interview can then be taken as a model, well, for students, journalists, who will learn how not to do it and analyze it in parts, because there are really several of them, when the interviewer fits the person from whom he is taking interview, with such questions that a journalist cannot normally ask, but it is, so to speak, about his pseudo-

professionalism, at the same time, i would thank him, you know, for the fact that he, even with this, absolutely poor interview, showed the whole world the inadequacy of putin, well, believe me, the way he looks in the eyes western audience, well, this is just a disaster, because... well, the style of communication of western politicians with journalists is completely opposite to what putin demonstrated, although he considers himself a great nobleman of the west, because he says that he was there in to the first department of the kgb, i.e. in intelligence, well , he was scouting in the cultural center in dresden, what are the employees of the states doing there, apparently, that's how he does interviews. for a western audience, it's a completely different style, different dynamics, different system and so on, but

besides, he really conveyed the main message through this carlson: i want negotiations, he repeated it during this two-hour interview, i think, three or four times, maybe five. what does it mean? this means that he perfectly understands the limits of his capabilities, and they are his limits. primarily in the field of economy, he is now puffing up his cheeks and telling that the russian economy has grown there by three and a half percent, this is a fiction, this is something that is actually very far from reality, because it is about what is now he simply transfers the russian economy to a war economy and throws blank pieces of paper in the form of rubles into the production of weapons. this is something that will not work literally in 2-3 years, because it will not give what

is called starting the economy for growth, what interests the russian economy is called stagflation, that is, when the economy does not develop, and inflation goes up, and this means that very, very difficult times will begin for the average russian, to be sure. he has strength for a maximum of two years, so he, understanding this, wants now under any circumstances to go to this topic of negotiations to record what he has won, as he said recently, and this is the main topic for which he agreed to this interview, and i think that in part he conveyed this idea, but as always, very very constructive, but despite this public interview, carson, speaking just yesterday at the world government summit in dubai , said that putin wants to end

the conflict and is ready to compromise, that putin is ready to compromise absolutely , well , it was clear from the interview, here is the question only whether in this case ukraine is ready for any kind of conversation at all, because putin's main condition was and remains the recognition of the new territorial reality, or simply put, the recognition that the occupied regions of the ukrainian state are part of the russian federation , and this should be recognized by all the united states of america, nato and... ukraine, i.e. this is how it looks to him, then what kind of compromise is mr. serhiy talking about, i.e. it is a fiction, it is a deception, this is what russian propagandists and putin want to pass off as a compromise , in fact there is no compromise. very it's a pity that in the west there are people like mask, who

actually, well, plays to the very tune of putin. and says completely inappropriate things , he says that putin cannot lose, the question is, where does this confidence come from , he must lose, why, well, because he is a war criminal, because his country has violated all the principles of international law , and for that he should be punished, that's all elon musk's logic is that they say it will...stop people's suffering, yes, maybe for a few months or a couple at most years, and then they will be renewed, but on a much larger scale, so, unfortunately, there are no fewer useful idiots in the west, it is very sad, but this does not mean at all that the western world should go to the eyes of the kremlin's deception, and

very well, that scholz is now in... washington and european leaders in general are beginning to be very clearly and clearly aware of the fact that it is necessary to get seriously involved, if america slows down aid, then everything will fall on europe, because europe is, first of all, closer, and the threats for her, it is just as obvious, clearly more serious, therefore, i think that despite all these attempts by putin to push the world, the western world head-on, to sow contradictions between america and europe, inside europe itself, in the middle of his america, by the way, today i read interesting information from russian anonymous publics that their russia's main goal is not trump, but the split in american society,

and the longer and deeper it lasts, the less americans will pay attention to russia. here is the answer to the question of whether russia needs trump, and whether russia needs this policy: divide and conquer, so that everything becomes absolutely clear once again. mr. volodymyr, there are farmers' protests again in poland, several dozen farmers blocking the road for ukrainian trucks, the case when ukrainian trucks that crossed the ukrainian-polish border were stopped by these farmers, i don't know if they are not farmers, who is there, protestors, and they opened the trucks and scattered grain right on the road that was going to europe, the ukrainian embassy in lublin has already turned to the polish one,

apparently the consulate has turned to the polish one to the police with a demand: to open a case based on the fact of the crime, and the ambassador of ukraine to poland, vasyl zvarych, called on the polish side to respond decisively to the incident, i quote vasyl azvarych. such methods of protesters should not be tolerated in a european civilized country, not to mention the moral side of this provocation, so we demand that the culprit be found and brought to justice. the polish authorities should react decisively in the legal field to this shameful and offensive crime for ukrainians and the majority of poles. and not allow such barbaric actions in the future , the minister of social economy of poland, czejslaw sekerski, in his statement, apologized to ukraine for the incident with the scattered grain that happened on sunday, calling such actions not quite an adequate form of protest, but noted that farmers often resort to this in various countries we have seen for two or three

months, mr. volodymyr, how polish carriers and topol farmers are closing down. this is a big window that is now very important for us to europe and is trying to prevent it to ukrainians in trade with european countries, they are closing our corridor, the main corridor, because all our ports are now under fire from the russian occupiers, why do you think this is being done and why, why is there no... a strong reaction from poland, because well, we too we can create certain conditions under which polish agricultural products will not be wasted. on the shelves of our stores, and do we need to mirror like that? well, you understand, mr. serhiy, here is really a question,

a very delicate question, the poles, i mean the government, society, did help and they help ukrainians who were forced to flee from russian aggression, the poles help us... with weapons, the poles help us, in many issues that are not publicly discussed, and this is definitely, and for that we should be grateful, and we count on the continuation of this help on the other hand, there are polish farmers who are afraid that the uncontrolled flow of ukrainian agricultural products to poland will bring these poles to them. their farmers to collapse, and this is also true, because our, our products are cheaper, so they will easily replace polish ones, and

this will mean that the polish farmer farming will cease to exist, which is tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people, so the polish government has a difficult situation, that is, they cannot but help ukraine and they are doing it and will continue to do it, on the other hand, they are not can... not help their farmers, how to react? well, react as always, it seems to me, in such cases subtly, you need to really sit down at the table, you need to talk about what can be delivered to poland, and what will go further, under what conditions, under what control and so on, we should also not be interested in neighboring poland receiving additional ones through us. serious problems, er, this will not do us any good in the long run, we still need to join the european union and nato, we still need the polish parliament to support these decisions, and

will it support them if we do, well, in fact to destroy polish agriculture, so here, unfortunately, not everything is so simple, but eh, you mentioned mirroring, some things in this plan, it would be possible as well ... as a preventive apply the measure, well , let's say, to fill ukrainian store shelves with polish cheeses, well , maybe they can be reduced by half, this will give ukrainian agricultural producers the opportunity to earn more, and why not, like some such small but symbolic steps, this will also be a signal for that side , that you will also lose, so let's sit down, let's negotiate, after all, in this situation, kyiv probably. kyiv should be more, shall we say , more proactive in this matter, and try to talk with the polish authorities,

because the government is new there, that's true, and to be honest, there was great hope that the new government would look at this situation in a different way, but you see, and donald tusk recently stated that we don't want any groups there ukrainian oligarchs profited from... on polish farmers, i don't think this statement is adequate, we don't have that many oligarchs who would profit from this, so i think this is an exaggeration, all the more so we need to look for ways to sit down one table, take technicians, specialists and with a pencil in hands to go over all possible issues, and then take it to the political leader for approval, thank you. thank you, mr. volodymyr, for an interesting conversation, it was volodymyr ogrysko, politician, diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine. during our broadcast, friends, we conduct a survey and ask you about the following: do you expect

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thank you. glory. ukraine. to the heroes. great return of great lviv. conversations, discussions, search for solutions. the largest talk format of ukraine in the evening prime. i at all i think we need two things. money and weapons. we did not start this war, but we must finish it and we must win. all the most important - every thursday at 21:15. velikiy lviv speaks in the project on the espresso tv channel.

greetings, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel, my name is serhiy rudenko, it is being broadcast today. a big reboot, after

being assigned to the team. the armed forces of ukraine expect further personnel changes in the government from zelenskyi, who may resign? dismissal quietly, generals left their positions through announcements in zmi, problems of information support, changes in military leadership. more help from europe. against the background of the delay in american funding, zelensky is going to european friends. what to expect from the munich conference? friends, except tv broadcast, we are still working on our sites on youtube and facebook, for those who are watching us live there, please please like this video and also vote in our poll, today we ask you the following, do you expect further personnel rotations in power from zelensky, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you expect new

personnel rotations. in power 0800-211381 no 0800-211-382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's program, this is mykyta poturaev, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, head of the verkhovna rada committee on humanitarian affairs and information policy. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. member of parliament of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the verkhovna rada committee on education, science and innovation. mr. rostislav, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. and andrii osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on law enforcement. mr. andrii, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us. good evening, sergey. let's start ours a conversation with blitz because we ask

us. tv viewers about whether they expect further personnel rotations in the government , announced by zelensky, not only of the military leadership, but of the political leadership in general, perhaps most of our tv viewers do not understand what personnel rotations we are talking about, and i do not know which ones there will be personnel rotations, but still, well, let's start with mr. poturaev, mr. nikita, obviously you know for sure... should we expect further personnel rotations in the government, well, political ones? and no, definitely not i know, because our fraction did not receive any proposals regarding the change of certain heads of central authorities, what i am waiting for, i am waiting for, well, maybe an appointment.