their roles there are a little further there, they were simply pulled up, they will now lead the ukrainian army. against this background, a scandal is unfolding in the west with donald trump's statements that the countries that are part of the north atlantic alliance and do not pay contributions there, the united states of america will not fight for them, and in principle, this is trump's statement embarrassed, including ... the president of the united states of america, joe biden, he criticized trump for encouraging russia to invade countries that do not fulfill their commitments to nato, and the american leader said that such comments are a dangerous and shocking signal, equal to vladimir putin's inclination to attack countries that, well, which, let's say, can fall under. category, let's listen to joe

biden. can you imagine a former president of the united states saying that. the whole world heard it, and the worst part was that he meant it. no other president in our history has ever bowed to a russian dictator. well, let me make this as clear as possible, i i will never do that. for god's sake, it's stupid, it's shameful. it's dangerous, it's not american. when america gives its word, it means something. when we make commitments, we fulfill them, and nato is a sacred commitment. well, frankly speaking, when i listen to trump, i cannot understand where is the declaration of intentions and where is just pre-election rhetoric, because during pre-election rhetoric you can say anything, anything, as, for example, once in... in

in 1994, leonid kuchma said that the second russian will be the second state, that we we will almost integrate with russia there, that is, there will be economic ties, political ties, then it all changed very quickly, only kuchma came to the presidential office, the united states of america has a whole system that will definitely not allow trump to do what he wants, and even more so there are international obligations within the framework. of the north atlantic alliance, mr. oleg, this is such a sharp reaction of the leaders of the western countries to trump's statements, what does it show that you can expect anything from trump? mr. bolton said that trump's words should be taken seriously. and here at once there are several sections in which it can be commented. first of all, trump and now, for example, if american institutions were really as strong as they seem. strong and

how, as they manifested themselves before, even now trump would not be able to block the decision-making in the congress, because his real weight in the congress is much less, it is only marginally eight sticks, well, up to 20, which are situationally adjacent, but actually its informal today's weight as a candidate for the presidency from the republicans is almost unopposed, as a person who is the bearer of a cool temperament, let's say a chaotic character, he has already shown himself before, constantly creating constitutional stalemates in the united states, then because of this he is today disproportionate to his real american parliamentarianism is blackmailing and actually holding us by the throat, let's imagine the finish line of the election campaign and the post-election period itself, i would not overestimate american institutions, i certainly would not underestimate mr. trump, in the institution are republican, in particular, trump analysts. are already preparing staff

not only for filling political positions, but are already preparing for functional official positions, in our country, we would say, and heads of departments, state secretaries and other positions that are usually not affected by the political situation at all, which actually are in order to ensure the protection of the state apparatus against the change of political leadership. trump is going to take revenge, he believes that the deep state, and in principle, correctly believes that it is his time did not allow him to win in the second term, to go to the second term, because they calibrated him in the first term, very often limited him by his hands in those things that he cannot do, and regarding nato, it should be taken seriously, due to the fact that it is the external structures within which the united states has obligations, they may become those institutions that will tie his hands not only from the inside, but also from the outside, and he would like to get rid of them, he would also like here also clear the field so that in the manual mode...

it is possible to make a decision yes or no, to move, not to move, this is approximately the same as what we observe, for example, from the g7 or the european union or other institutions to which ukraine made commitments and... and who thus get the opportunity to act as a certain balance to domestic political processes, when we see that they fly away from a normal flow and normal trajectory, regarding trump himself and his statement, here i would say that very it is bad that he can make such a statement, and it is very good that he makes it did, badly, because it says that the american voter, the republican... he has changed very seriously. a number of studies show that up to 40% of republican supporters have moved away from the nuclear classical republican ideology and no longer correspond to the key markers and dominants of the republican ideology.

today, only about 30% are the core of real republicans, and 40% are already populism and degenerate republican ideology, actually those who are the electoral core for trump. and they are ready to hear such words and support them, if they weren't ready for it, trump wouldn't have said it, he very clearly follows populistically what his voters want to hear from him, and here's the trouble, it's not about trump, it's about his nuclear electorate, which believes thus, he is ready to divide this position, and it is good that he stated this, because today it is an opening of the map for various skeptics who think that he can carry and, accordingly, already for... now he needs an appropriate reaction, sorry for the taftology , from european partners and nato members, other than the united states, in order to prepare for the worst-case scenario and ultimately prepare to prevent it and in particular to influence the united states by calibrating the future potential president trump if he wins. it is very

good that such plans of his are being disavowed now, and this is already being taken with complete seriousness. for ukraine, it allows to get more searching partners in the face of european countries, countries. of the pacific region, which, against this background, take more responsibility and determination for preparing for external events security challenges and, accordingly, for support in supporting ukraine. at the moment, these are some kind of bars, with putin on the one hand, and trump on the other, in which good old europe is at least being strengthened and hardened and remembers the need to ensure its security, including on its own. mr. igor, tell me. what trump says about the end of russia's war against ukraine for 20-4 hours. this statement, it's also directed at his nuclear electorate, who also, well, hope

that this war will end, and the united states america will not already be involved in this war financially, with some certain obligations, or is it because of... trump's attempt in this situation to simply compete with joe biden, who in this situation acts as a partner of ukraine, such a reliable partner and flirting with volodymyr is enough putin, that is, this kind of game, for two, it is dangerous enough, but we know that trump tried with kimchinin in the first term. to flirt there with the leader of china, and well, in a word, there was a lot in trump's biography, and now he, judging by is trying to play with putin, or am i wrong, well, it’s not that he is trying to play, he really had a lot of

similar things in his biography, but they, by the way, did not end very well, they specifically fell out with china and this caused great economic damage, including to the united states. and china, but the states also suffered, it didn't work out with north korea either, they continued the development of the nuclear program and are now actively demonstrating it, well, let's say it, to the whole world, in fact, blackmailing the countries of the region the possibility of using nuclear weapons, and things did not go so well with putin, because talking about some kind of good relations between trump's united states and putin's russia, well, it's probably not worth it, especially since trump was very much in love with that meeting with putin. even media loyal to him wrote that he demanded very palely and by and large did not feel very confident and this is clearly not the position of the leader of the united states, but of the united states as the leader of the democratic world. therefore, when he today he makes such statements that he will end the war there in 24 hours,

he is primarily targeting his own populist electorate, it is not that big, it is up to a third of the republicans, but it is important to him. from the perspective there, even the policies that he is leading today, and i am deeply convinced that he has no plan, and he just liked the phrase 24 hours and the phrase that if i were ... the president would not be at war at all was, they are not verified in any way, them it is impossible to check, because, well, he is talking about those things that have either already happened once, or about things that are yet to happen, and accordingly, he can change this rhetoric at any moment, say that some new facts have appeared, some new circumstances, and against the background of these circumstances, i am changing my position regarding the 24 hours there and the end of the war that russia started against ukraine. but what is important, this story really resonates with his electorate, plus he acts here as a certain

antagonist of biden and says that we could spend the money that we spend there to the united states, this thesis of his about america first, it, you know, finds its support among a large part of americans who are not really well versed in foreign policy, because this issue has never been, is not and never will be for them priority, who do not really know what amounts are involved? language, in comparison with the american budget, it is, well, realistically within the limits of a statistical error or, well, realistically , a penny, but because of all the rhetoric of trump , for some reason they believe that their pensioners or their poorly protected sections of the population there are something are not receiving, because america almost gets ukraine there, and trump will continue this rhetoric in the future, because it is very advantageous from the electoral point of view, it forces the biden administration a priori to take, you know, such a defensive position. let’s not make excuses, if they haven’t yet found an approach to trump, and i’m not sure

that they will, because he is quite, well, quite a situational politician whose mood changes, approaches, statements and so on change there, and he, as in one old joke there, that's what one sees, that's what one sings about, and this is to some extent a problem, because it is difficult to somehow predict, to understand in general , what he will bet on, but he will exploit this thesis, because it gives him a result, and since he is a person who came from business, why refuse that this result brings, and here there is another important point, again , of such a business plan, this is the maximum result with minimal, roughly speaking, capital investments on his part, he does not need to invent anything there, hire any serious companies that are going to calculate all of this, he just has a certain set of these slogans that he uses, and unfortunately the american audience picks up on that, because unfortunately, to this day... the american people, he's divided to a great extent , he is disoriented, he has not

moved away from the events of the 20th year, well, trump continues to pour in this direction, speaking in simple language, and in principle to drive this people into even more misunderstanding, and on this misunderstanding he makes himself certain, gains certain political dividends, so we should be prepared that he will mention ukraine often, he will mention it in such a context that it is not a problem for him to solve the issue of the russian... ukrainian war at all, but he will not say a word at the same time, well, none give details, how exactly he is going to do it, did he send a signal to putin in this way, well , maybe there is something in the plan, so that putin would be there if, i don’t know, not that he didn’t criticize him, but he just understood that there if the government changes, they will be able to address these issues to decide, but whether these statements are currently taken seriously there, even in the same russian federation, is still an open question, because trump needs to win first. it is far from a fact that he will succeed. thank you, mr. igor, gentlemen, let's take

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oskad. friends, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, we continue to work live, in addition, we also work on youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live there, please vote in our poll, we are today you are asked whether you support the idea of ​​deferring mobilization for additional tax, yes no, if you support 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382. by phone, if you watch us on youtube, on the youtube channel, vote accordingly button, or write your comments under this video. all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. oleksan and ihor ryterovych are our guests today, political experts, people who know everything or almost everything about ukrainian politics. well,

er, on the 16th, i wanted to, just because you know. all about politics, i wanted to ask you about the story of how petro poroshenko is trying to go abroad again and already to participate in the munich security conference, he received an invitation from one of the three people's deputies of ukraine who received invitations to participate in this serious event, this security conference is to be held from february 16 to 18, let's hear what poroshenko said about why he is not allowed to attend this conference, the head of the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense, mr. kyril budanov for some reason informed the speaker of the parliament

, ruslan stefanchuk, that immediately after... crossing the ukraine-poland border, and especially in munich, i, as the fifth president and leader of the opposition, was in mortal danger. and unable me to protect, as a guarded person, not the state security department? no, the entire security system of germany. and the only way to save. or not to release him, this is the story , it is repeated regularly, then poroshenko was supposed to meet with orban, and this, not this , was what the russian propaganda resources wanted in order to speculate on it later, now they are saying that danger awaits poroshenko

abroad , and not in ukraine, this is also an explanation, as you gentlemen perceive it... such a selective attitude of the authorities to the fact that who should represent ukraine at international conferences, on international platforms, who should not, and when, in the end, this is this division , who is his own, who is someone else's, who can speak, who cannot speak, and suddenly he will say something, what there is no need to talk, and president zelensky will be there, he will probably be very uncomfortable when president poroshenko or the people's deputy of ukraine poroshenko will be there. how do you perceive all these stories, why do they repeat themselves with such regularity, mr. oleg? i perceive it as a farce, as in general the possibility of permits for deputies and... not to leave the border administration, that is , the administrative staff of the leadership of the verkhovna rada, in my opinion, it is generally shameful, as a principle, that currently

mr. budanov, according to the words of petro poroshenko and mr. stefanchuk, care about life there are more people of pyotr oleksiyovych than pyotr oleksiyovych himself, and they can judge whether he should risk his own life or not, of course, he deserves respect for kudanov and stefanchuk, but... still, i think that pyotr oleksiyovych himself is capable of evaluating , to what extent he is ready to risk his own life going abroad or not. it is clear that this will be perceived in the west and internationally as another reason to say that the opposition is being restricted in ukraine, and not everything is good with democracy in ukraine, and this will be used by russian propaganda, by our enemies abroad, and accordingly, in this way, ukraine itself provides the basis for the fact that around this... there are a lot of insinuations and, accordingly , manipulations of enemy propaganda, whether there really is a threat or not, whether such a letter really has place or not, unfortunately, we have not seen them and do not know confirmation of this, but the fact

remains that pyotr oleksiyovych will not be released abroad, and here it is not so important that this is the fifth president, or that pyotr oleksiyovych last name, it is important here that this is a people's deputy who is being restricted in his activities, and parliamentary diplomacy for us today is not mine'. more important than all other diplomatic tracks, it helps both in obtaining weapons and lobbying, obtaining money, and the representation of the ukrainian position, and in particular, the opposition that leaves for border, it can communicate with opposition political forces in those countries where we are not doing well, and where the government cannot reach, where it is toxic for it, that is why we see that on international platforms, be it a pariah, any other international collective bodies where ukrainian parliamentarians are represented. our deputies, both in power and opposition, from completely different political forces, work hand in hand, internally they would learn to support each other in the same way, it would be very good, but

abroad we need everyone, both the government and the opposition, and of a completely different type and caliber , especially if we are talking about one of the presidents of ukraine, he is definitely not an average figure, despite the fact that there is a serious level of tension, say, between the authorities and poroshenko, we know all this catching up which remained from before the war, before the war, nevertheless, it should not cast a shadow on the state of ukraine today, and all the resources of ukraine should now be used for the victory of the powerful and oppositional forces, therefore such a situation is a farce bordering on tragicomedy . thank you, mr. oleg, mr. igor, is this a consequence of this confrontation that we saw 5 years ago, i suddenly... caught it in my mind that it was 5 years ago, and we, we, we we understand that, in principle, during this time, first of all, both petro

oleksiyovych and volodymyr oleksandrovich have already experienced a lot, and all of us together with them have experienced a lot, but we see again some eyes, a return to the past, when there it is necessary to take, humiliate the fifth president of ukraine, there, no, without releasing him abroad, well, it looks trivial, i would said, trivially, as for volodymyr zelenskyi, as for a person who is one way or another and, well, who is known all over the world, and it is unlikely that poroshenko will compete there on the same platform in munich, well, it is absolutely obvious, that different figures, different time, and these figures can complement each other in order to achieve the result we are aiming for... that is, to tell about what ukraine wants and what ukraine offers at the munich security conference, because it is a serious enough gathering, maybe poroshenko would have strengthened it

zelenskyi, what do you say about it? well, by the way, this would be positively perceived by all other countries that would be our partners there, because for them, you know, the inheritance of power or the unity of power and the opposition in countering russian aggression in this case is a very important march. a marker including one that determines their future support decisions. well , pay attention, unfortunately, some statements made by our partners recently, they already contained certain political elements, that is, they mentioned there about pluralism, pluralism of opinions, different political parties, about increasing the efficiency of parliamentarism, returning the subjectivity of the ukrainian parliament in general, not persecuting the opposition, observing the law... many other things, that is, they are already starting to pay attention to this again, despite the fact that almost it will already be two years of a large-scale war, but they are beginning

to remember those stories that were very generals there until the 22nd year, and it is clear that such participation there is not joint, but simply participation at the same conference of the president and the former of the president, well, it was clearly perceived as a positive signal, everyone is responsible for something, does something to the best of his abilities and helps ukraine accordingly, and yes, this position of the government looks like, well, i would say so, you know, infantile, and it is actually a big it's a big problem, five years have really passed, but there will literally be presidential elections there, which were held in 19'. year, all the same, many things come down to such a personal confrontation, although, if you look at the ratings, well, it does not make any sense now, because, well, the elections are not soon, and there is no need to worry about some things, including the current president, he has to solve completely different issues, maybe someone in the environment of the current president thinks that such things can distract the attention, including society, from some

other existing problems. for society to discuss these issues, and not there to pay attention to some other problems and scandals that we have, well, for example, how we discussed for a couple of days the story of the lack of funds for the construction of fortifications in zaporizhzhya oblast, today the cabinet of ministers seems to have settled this situation and said that the money has already been found and so on, but it was, indeed , no money was allocated and the problem, in principle, arose, that is why it creates such informational pretexts that do not give the opportunity to principles to focus on really important topics that are important for the country, and here i would probably add some kind of political fear, but political fear in what way, that the government may not feel very confident now, especially against the background of all the personnel rotations, with which we started our conversation today with you there in the military leadership, and feels very vulnerable , is afraid that the opposition there will begin to increase its support, the ratings

there will begin to rise, well, trust in this case, because... as a rule there they are not yet measured by the elections directly to the parliament or the presidential elections there, but nevertheless, and in order for this not to happen, it is necessary to somehow put sticks in the wheels, and not give the opportunity to get some kind of informational excuse and, well, create such a situation, well of a really humiliating nature, but you understand , this is a shot in the leg, because instead of speaking rudely to poroshenko at a conference where he could talk about something, i don't know, make one or two approaches to the mass media there and give out some... comments , well, i don’t rule out that now the ukrainian delegation, not the fact that the president, but the delegations will definitely ask questions, and what is happening there again, why can’t your people’s deputies leave, especially since they have an invitation, and why you create some obstacles on the way their ordinary political activities, including the representation of at least part of the ukrainian people. thank you, mr. igor, for the conversation, thank you, mr. oleg, also for participating in the program, oleg sahakyan, igor

reiterovych. were guests of our program today, thank you for what you said and articulated about current events in ukraine and the world, friends, i would like to remind you that during our broadcast we conducted a survey, we asked you about the following: do you support the idea from line to line of mobilization for additional tax, please show the results televoting, 24% yes, 76% no. yes , 77% no, well, approximately the same ratio of those who support the idea of ​​deferring mobilization for an additional tax and those who are against it. let's put an end to this, friends, this was the verdict program. goodbye serhiy rudenko, i 'll say goodbye to you until tomorrow, until 8:00 p.m., take care of yourself and your loved ones. goodbye. problems

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