unfortunately, what is taught in training centers is only the base. when a serviceman comes to our unit, we prepare him here for at least two to three weeks so that he learns this entire process, the entire base. when a serviceman is already trained, ready, then he already goes into position. the 22nd brigade in the armed forces of ukraine was created already during the great war. most of the servicemen entered the army through mobilization and without military ... experience since the summer of last year, they are in the bakhmut direction, people were scared, people we were afraid that in about two weeks , you would be at zero, we didn't have such a thing, we were somewhere for a month, maybe more, even more, february, march, for almost two months we sat in the school, we had the instructors who taught us how to shoot, how to disassemble a machine gun, we went to shooting ranges, we were at the shooting range, we threw grenades, not many, of course, but all this was there, then we moved to the training range, we already had all the... part of it, we

have already worked out the coordination of actions, we lived there for almost two months, also on they were all together at the shooting ranges, and from there, from the range, i already got hooked on atgm, and i was there for a month, that is, i studied for almost five months. according to the law, the basic course of training for mobilized soldiers is not less than 30 days, then up to 40 days for military personnel... they can teach a specific specialty, but cases when an infantryman goes to the front already a month after mobilization are not uncommon, as a rule, already in combat brigades before sending to zero, they try to train the fighter for another two or three weeks, and often from experienced soldiers can be heard complaining about the level of training of the reserves. since there are training units, so many commanders of line units are not satisfied with the quality of personnel training. i don't remember in 35

years of service that a specialist came from the educational unit and everyone was happy, finally we waited for you, come on prokufa get down to business, it was you who was missing here, it never happened like that, we have to take into account the fact that aa a great fighter, a great specialist, he does not always have a pedagogical flair and ability teach, secondly, time is dense. the instructors got people from whom the command of the line units wanted to breathe and in this way simply breathed. how effective are these people as instructors? the third side of this multifaceted coin is that people who are called up on the basis of military duty, i.e. forcibly, do not have sufficient motivation to acquire...

knowledge and skills, nobody is responsible for anything here, that is, we , when they say that some unit is poorly prepared, or some people have come to battle brigade on and with them did not conduct classes, yes, in principle, if you pick up the documents, well , there are someone’s signatures somewhere, where everything was done with them, where all this worked, where ammunition was written off for it, fuel was written off for it, that is all this... they are trained in training centers, then they are distributed among units, and the training center is not responsible for what happens next with these people, and brigade commanders, commanders of combat units receive, well , what they give, they get, and they begin to retrain them, that is, the brigade commander will say, i, for example, i don't want to send people to such and such an educational center, or i don't want to take people from there, and when a certain number of such reviews... then the question becomes,

well, what does this center do in general, that is, well, simply we need, if a system of evaluation and a system of responsibility. in an exclusive interview with donbas realia, the training commander of the armed forces ground forces command, viktor nikoliuk, talked about how this system changed during the great war. according to him, checks and control of the level of training of military personnel are taking place constantly. as for instructors, there is always a need for them, nowadays not everyone has combat experience, but they are working on it. the following decision was made: the instructor prepares a staff, and with this staff he goes and performs tasks. for three weeks, two or three weeks, he performs tasks with him, he sees for real how he prepared the staff, he really assesses their readiness, he really sees their shortcomings, then they come back, let's say a meeting. such a meeting is held,

at which every moment is clearly understood, especially since now it may be an opportunity, well in real time, these are streams, these are video surveillance, these are, accordingly ... reports of military servicemen, these are interviews of commanders , what we use, and they return and in the future they prepare the unit again and for a few more weeks they go with completed the task with them, then he would already have, it is considered that he would have experience and he, well, accordingly, is already teaching. according to nikoliuk, 80% of servicemen are trained in ukraine, the rest abroad. representative of the us army europe and africa command, martin o'donald. in january stated that partners have trained 116,000 military personnel. 116 is almost 30 brigades. before the war in 2014 , there were 12 brigades in the armed forces, is this too many or too few? it's 2.5 formations of the armed forces, it's a shoe, how many.

to what extent it affects the state of the armed forces. if there are currently 750,000 in the armed forces. about 15%, every seventh was trained abroad. the effectiveness of such training can be assessed, in particular, by the quality of the western air defense systems in ukraine or other specific equipment. for example, bradley with a trained ukrainian crew destroys a russian tank t-90. if we talk about how effective it is in general. this mass of trained fighters , it seems to me that there are certain problems here, why do i think so, junior officers study in military academies, two/thirds of the teachers are military retirees who were educated in

the soviet union, never retrained abroad, do not have foreign languages, unable for this reason alone to familiarize themselves with... foreign sources, the question of whether they can teach the personnel of tomorrow's front-line commanders, nato standards, in general, an alternative view on the conduct of hostilities. i don't know what prevents the armed forces from retraining, except soldiers, sergeants, officers, teachers. in general, a rather heterogeneous system has emerged in the armed forces, when some still conventionally soviet approaches intersect not only with western approaches. moves, but also with the realities of hostilities here and now. the question of summarizing combat experience, analysis of successful and failed operations becomes key. to date, we have groups, mobile groups, such study of combat, combat experience, they are already working in

troops, every month we gather them according to the results of what they have worked on, a meeting is held during which it is determined what is positive or negative, and accordingly , individual preparation for action is already laid. the date, even there, the application of weapons there or what the enemy has, what is the position, how has it changed, how is this or that type of weapon used, there, etc., collective training, how do we take into account which drones, types of drone, at what heights they fly, how they carry out, respectively, bombers, how drones work, etc., training of the headquarters, which it was positive that it was taken into account, for example, the best performed task, such, such, such nuances, on the contrary, if something was not performed, what prevented it, and then it should be included in the training of that headquarters, which is undergoing training today. another point is the training of sergeants and officers. in the conditions of war, people are quickly promoted in the service, and it is important to find time and opportunity for them to study. the higher the rank, the more people

are subordinated, and therefore the responsibility is greater. at one time, in 1988, it was provided. an experiment in the western group of troops in germany, some divisions switched to so-called shock states, a division of state a. the commander of a motorized rifle battalion, in addition to three motorized rifle companies, mortar batteries, had his own tank company, an anti-tank battery, a self-propelled artillery battery, and a dozen others separate vaults for different purposes, that is, even having. five deputies, the battalion commander did not have the opportunity to confidently manage such a number of units, these are specific skills, this was abandoned quite quickly in a year, but for today, this experience remains

relevant, if we want unit commanders to lead confidently, they must have such a volume of people and tasks under their command. with which a normal person is able to operate without losing concentration , not to lose anyone in battle, to be able to provide for everyone. in general, under the conditions when... the army, in many respects, are yesterday's civilians, the issue of training these people becomes fundamental. is it possible to be psychologically fully prepared for what awaits you in a combat zone? probably not, and knowledge and high-quality training do not guarantee anything, but they give a much better chance of survival. in addition, it is important to correctly use the skills of each soldier at the front. the biggest mistake was, yes, it was that... uh, society was set up for a quick victory, and

everyone got the impression that these people who went to fight first voluntarily, and then they were called up there, that they will close this issue, there is an inevitability, that is, and it had to be pumped, and it must was proving to people that to one degree or another everyone must be, if... we do not fight for ukraine under the ukrainian flag, yes, in principle during the occupation, if we are not killed, then we will be forced to fight under the russian flag prator, they do it, it 's like a base, people need to be guaranteed that they will be taught, people need to be made to understand that they have value for the state, for those people who teach them. despite all technological solutions, people are still the main value in the army. human resources in russia

at least four times more than in ukraine. if every soldier is not protected, in a few years there may not be anyone left to mobilize into the ukrainian army. a simple calculation in a long war of attrition. these were donbas realities. i'm yaroslav krechko, see you soon. 10 years of war, the war for freedom, from the revolution of dignity to today's battles. if something happens to me, if it doesn't happen to me, then i know that i died for the truth. 10 years of war, the war for our existence, this is the path that changed us. in the conditions of occupied territories, de-occupied territories we have loss of about 7 million hectares of potential land, which... has not been cultivated for two years. 10 years of war, war for the future, what price do we pay

for it? 200 of our citizens were taken to russia. depopulation is not an inevitable thing. intellectuals, experts, patriots about challenges, threats and our future in a special project for the 10th anniversary of the beginning of russia's armed aggression against ukraine, 10 years of the war for independence. from february 18 on sp slava ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. over the next two we talk for hours about ukraine, about the world, about the war and about our victory. today in the program. critical situation. in avdiivka, the zsu may lose the city. the white house accuses the us congress of delaying

aid to ukraine. security guarantees. zelensky signs agreements with partners before the munich conference. why did only elected deputies go to munich? get to the heart of russia? the kremlin believes that the eu has approved the supply of long-range weapons to ukraine, which is behind moscow's so-called peace initiatives. about this, and also about murder of oleksiy navalny in the russian colony, we will talk for the next hour with our guests, sbu colonel, people's deputy of ukraine roman kostenko, acting director of the institute of educational policy yevhen magda , and political expert volodymyr tsibulko. in the second part of our program , we will have a journalism club in which olga will participate. natalia ishchenko and oleksiy mustafin. however, before we start our

big talk, let's watch a video of a powerful detonation of ammunition of the enemy bmp-2 after hitting the strike drone of the 60th separate mechanized ingulets brigade. the video was shot near the village of yampolivka , donetsk region. let's see. friends, we work not only on tv, but also on our youtube and facebook platforms. during this broadcast, we conduct a survey and ask you the following: would you like to see a professional military man at the head of ukraine?

yes, no, if you watch us on youtube, please vote or leave yours. comment below this video if you watch us on tv, pick up your phone or smartphone and vote if you would like to see a professional military man at the head of ukraine: 0800-211-381, no, 0800 211-382, call, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will here are the results of this vote. we have our first guest on the phone, roman kostenko, colonel of the security service of ukraine. secretary of the verkhovna rada committee on national security, people's deputy of ukraine. mr. colonel, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. let's start our conversation about the situation in avdiivka. ukrainian defenders retreated from the zenit position in avdiivka. regrouping of troops and strengthening of units is currently underway.

oleksandr tarnavskyi, the commander of the operational strategic grouping of tavria troops, announced this. what does mr. general say? after many months of confrontation, the command made a decision to withdraw from the zenit position to the southeastern outskirts of avdiivka. we held this position for as long as it allowed and effectively restrained and destroyed the enemy. the decision to leave was taken for good preserving personnel and improving the operational situation, writes oleksandr tarnavskyi on his telegram page. mr. colonel, tell me, please. what is the current situation in avdiivka? today we had a committee, it was held, and we listened there, including the new commander-in-chief oleksandr syrskyi and the chief of the general staff, and it was precisely this situation that we touched on, budanov and malyuk, the head of the security service, the

foreign intelligence service were also present , that's why today we are from geopolitical to all issues. asked questions, including in order to understand how the situation is currently developing in the world and in particular on our fronts. as for the immediate avdiivka, yes, the situation there is really difficult and tense , it has been quite tense lately, as we remember, and then the front managed to stabilize, now the situation is unfolding again in such a way that the enemy throws his most prepared troops aside. actions, and our brigades are now holding a heroic defense there, including those sent there to stabilize actions the third assault brigade , which is now on the defensive, in particular , preventing the enemy from advancing further, and what the commander-in-chief has already stated in principle today, and uh, in principle, it is also confirmed in his

reports that the reserves are now going there, plus allocated there additional ammunition and now... everyone is trying to stabilize the situation in order to understand how events will unfold further, this is of course ideal, it is to stabilize the front, push the enemy back to er his border, and to keep er further, the city does not give an opportunity him to advance, and if the threat is such that they will see that there is a threat of encirclement, then withdraw the troops, now some, according to him... regroupings have arrived, he gave the command in order to align our positions somewhere and in order to continue to successfully maintain the defense, it is about the reports of the top management, about the situation on the ground, indeed, well, we see that the fighters are filming and transmitting what they see the battle with their own eyes, of course the situation

for they are critical, the enemy is trying to do, as we can see on the map, there are two of them coverage, one thing... a small one inside this big bag and outside is trying to go around, but you can see all this very well on the map, so now the situation is very difficult to comment on, because it changes almost every hour, and everything will depend from whether they will have time and how quickly the reserves will be transferred precisely to the aid of the 110th and third assault brigades and other brigades in order to... in order to stabilize the front, in order to throw up the enemy, because when he sees that he is pressing, he starts throw there more and more troops and well-trained troops, and in the meantime from... the united states said that the russians could capture avdiivka in the near future. such a statement was made by the coordinator of the national security council of the white house, john kirby, and accused the congress

of the united states of america of inaction regarding the allocation of new aid to ukraine. let's hear what john kirby had to say. avdiyivka was under the threat of passing under russian control. this mostly happens because the ukrainian military is running out of artillery ammunition on the... frontline. russia sends troops to attack ukrainian positions wave after wave. because congress has yet to approve additional funding, we have no way to support ukraine with the ammunition they desperately need to thwart russian attacks. the price of congress' inaction is very high, and it falls on the shoulders of ukrainian soldiers. if the republicans do not act, what is happening now in ... may happen in other parts of the front. colonel, do you agree with john kirby that what is happening in the

avdiivtsi, if ukraine does not receive help from the united states of america, can it spread to other areas of the front? of course, this is a war of drones, a war of artillery, artillery, no matter what, remains an important factor, especially deterring the enemy. drones,... the main factor in the impression of the enemy is high-precision weapons, and artillery is something that does not allow the enemy to raise his head, does not give him the opportunity to use his reserves, does not give him the opportunity to create strike groups, ee somewhere there is a photo, so the presence of ammunition - this is key, would how many personnel did you have there, if you do not have artillery, then it is quite difficult to talk about any kind of defense or active actions, the fact that we have problems with ammunition, i think that avdiivka... i hope tomorrow will be allocated and according to the words , including the command, that a certain additional number will be allocated there, there is enough of them there to

conduct hostilities, but you are right in saying that if somewhere is taken, then somewhere it is taken away, and the main thing is that the enemy does not use it other areas, including kupyanskyi, where a large number of troops or something else is concentrated there, and where we will not be able to fight back because we have thrown all the ammunition there in one direction or another. therefore there are problems with ammunition, they are always there, there is not a lot of ammunition, and at the same time there is also a question of long-term stability, we can stabilize in a day or two, shoot all ammunition at avdiivka, if we do not receive something from our partners, eh , uh, congress, uh, let's say this, the deputies whose congressmen went on vacation, now they are all resting somewhere on vacation, then this could have very unfortunate consequences, sir? colonel, today a security conference opened in munich , we know that petro poroshenko was not allowed there, but i know that you, i

think, were also not allowed there, and you did not speak about it publicly, but about that they say at least, look at serhiy, that it is possible to talk about them in public at all, well, this is funny to me, it is such a baseness, you know that you just don't even want to talk about what, who to talk to. here is the question because right here, well, it's just a situation where i have submitted the documents in the morning, i say look, i'm going there, because i'm the secretary of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence, i'm there every year at this conference , we carry the same messages abroad, i practically do not travel abroad, recently i was, by the way, last year at a security conference and represented ukraine there, together with the chairman of the verkhovna rada , they were at all the meetings and in principle with me. .. now there are enough questions inside the country, too and conducting hostilities, and i am engaged in the defense-industrial complex in terms of ammunition, ammunition, bplat, sometimes

there is not enough time to sleep, but i submitted all the documents in order to go because there are congressmen there, there was a lot waiting for me there people with whom i also maintain relations in the united states, and in germany, and in other countries in order to support ukraine, and i was already on my way, so you... understand, to the train, i already saw the station when i was told that, sorry, we didn't include you in it business trip, well, first of all, it is a general violation of the constitutional rights of deputies, and i am sure that these people, they will be held criminally responsible, then when the government changes, they, well, this, this, this is not a question of roman kostenko, i first of all, i hold the title of people's deputy. the people who elected me, i have my powers to protect my constituents and to be accountable, and when someone tries to limit my powers even by something that violates the constitution.

this is criminal and there will be responsibility for it, well, let's put it this way, they told me all this, that you are not going, we changed our minds, sent two of our people and two people from the opposition there, and that's the end of the matter, and you know, here and there even get angry at i can't do them, because it's just ridiculous, the people who are trying there with the help of... six managers to manage the state and the spineless verkhovna rada, the leadership of the verkhovna rada, which cannot tell anyone, including the office, that it is yes, this is our delegation, to protect the rights of our deputies, what is serhiu talking about here? in general, it is possible to say, here it is a matter for the government, which is now monopolized and trying to show something of itself, well, i am not

going to fight with anyone, the front is enough for me. but if needed, i will, i, i am always in favor. uh , i just want to understand the logic of president zelensky, who does not want to let a colonel, a combat colonel, who has fought and fought, all these 10 years, to the munich security conference, what, what is just more, apparently, he has something more to tell partners there, sitting on the bench. than me when i communicate with soldiers every day, believe me, when, it's not that i 'm talking pathetically, i almost every day we communicate with soldiers, and when i, for example, even write my bills, and you know, now i there he submitted a new draft law, my team and i worked on the motivation of the service, not on general mobilization and restriction of rights and, let's say, suppression of people's rights, but on the motivation of the service itself, because i am sure

that the government... has not yet understood this that it is impossible to pledge anything to these people of ours do, and you can come to an agreement with them, say , these are our duties, let's go let's beat the enemy together, they probably take an example from the russian federation and try to copy methods and drive people in this way , but it won't work, and that's already showed some localities, where they showed, the usual situation is bad, but they can receive such approaches throughout the country. such a situation, that's why i see it, and i open the discussion, i say: look, let's talk about the motivation of people, about encouragement, about the parallel creation of a professional army or part of it, so that we can destroy the enemy, because i can see how there are professional units of 50 men there that destroy more than brigades of 400 men, and that is the way we should go, but they have a different vision and they don't understand and are now

trying not to... discuss this draft law 11012 so that people don't see it at all and don't see what the proposals are, that's why they limit the deputies' travel abroad, i say once again , it's unconstitutional and it's a crime, i know that european solidarity mps also filed a lawsuit, filed with the security service of ukraine, filed with the general prosecutor's office, alleging that the rights of... deputies are being violated, and i believe that this is correct. if you can, tell us in a few words about this bill on the motivation for military service, you already mentioned that this is bill number 11012, when you, well, wrote this law, you said that it should create a basis to begin the transformation of the armed forces forces of ukraine into the professional army right during

the war, or? there is, first of all, the reaction of the ministry defense or the commander -in-chief, the commander-in-chief, or is this what they imagine and want, or on the basis of legislative initiative, you created a bill, and they may make a parallel one, an alternative one, or they will not consider it at all? look, well, this bill on mobilization, it has already shown in which direction they are thinking in general, and the president... does not comment on it, because he is afraid for his ratings, they gave it to the ministry of defense, they gave it to the general staff, and they seem to have it comment, we everyone said from the very beginning that there should be a balance, i will repeat once again that there should be, we, we are not about, we are talking about people, about civilian people, who should go take up arms and go fight against russian thugs, and we have, firstly...