new polish business, including agrarian business, what is cooperation with ukraine, it is beneficial, if you guys in poland have distortions with the import of grain from ukraine, you have any questions there about pesticides, about other things, let's to solve it, but let's solve it through normal trade, depoliticized negotiations, and it can be done, we have enough, decent negotiators for this, and a fairly sufficient level of control and others. but if you speak the language of blackmail, well , two sides just lose, maybe we lose more today, but tomorrow poland will lose because of this, this is obvious and this, well , excuse me nabinomyutona, it is very simply calculated, it is very obvious, we understand that not only polish goods go to ukraine through the ukrainian-polish border, or other countries can use their leverage here. who are interested in

having our goods in their markets and in selling their goods to us, how much should we rely on this moment at all? well, in my opinion, this is a very correct statement of the question, that is, we have roughly 30 billion dollars of imports to ukraine, which are transported by road transport, that is, well, de facto , to a large extent, it goes through poland, because these are imports that come from such countries as poland itself, germany. and other countries of the center of europe, where industry is more developed, and very often they stimulate our agricultural sector there to a large extent, because we understand that even the grain that grows in ukraine or grows in ukraine, it has a significant import component, in order to grow it , you need fertilizers that are not produced in ukraine needs other agrochemicals that are not produced in ukraine, that are produced by leading, for example, german concerns, such as bas or others, i don’t want

to name them here, it seems to me that what ukraine should do now is to highlight here are these priority trade, uh, trade categories that uh, form the basis of exports to ukraine and work with them, and work with them so that they also put pressure on poland and the polish government to prevent this very thing from happening blocking because after all it is the problem is not only ukraine is a problem of basf and it is a problem of the buyer and other companies that carry out significant e-e, which have many customers in ukraine, who certainly did not want to lose such an attractive market, so it is necessary to work with it, but again, this is a matter of a professional dialogue and professional conversation, and when you, excuse me, play football, you are hit on the legs in the form of scattered grain, i think we understand there, we understand the allegory, well, here, of course, in such conditions, the only thing is that...

we get as a result , it's just embitterment on both sides, maximum politicization, but this is not the scenario that should be followed, well, it is probably the most important thing that we de-politicize this conflict, but on the other hand, it is not so easy to do, because even when the prime minister tus says that i am the biggest sympathizer of ukraine, but there is food security, so this means that there are even limitations in the tactics of such politicians, yes, well, farmers in europe, let's be frank, they protested with... they always protest and they will continue to protest, probably because, well, i'll put it mildly, but european agrarian business is definitely not a model of efficiency, and it depends to a large extent on subsidies, we understand that these protests that are going on in poland today, they are parallel in all other countries, and they simply have at their core reasons that ukrainians have a very cursory relationship, just poles, when artificially, well, polish farmers, i mean, when artificially dispersed. here is this ukrainian

component, here are these deliveries of grain, which, by the way, are illegal, which, by the way, have not yet been proven as a fact, they are just trying to hit the corn that will have the maximum public publicity and the maximum political publicity, but again, in whose hands it is , we all also understand very well, so of course we have to deal with it, well, in the end, it is really the russian track these events have been talked about for a long time, a lot, but for some reason it seems to me that we are polish here... the law enforcement officers are somewhat passive, especially in cases where it has the character of, well, just a blatant violation of the law. ugh. thank you, mr. sergey. there must be a law enforcement component seriously strengthened, although i am not a supporter of police methods of combating such conflicts, but here it is obvious. but this is an important emphasis. thank you for ending our conversation with you. serhiy vovk, director of the center for transport strategies, about the situation that is now arising once again in the polish-ukrainian region. at the border, we will break

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important. knowledge about the ox saves lives. the saturday political club of khrystyna yatskiv and vitaly portnikov, and the most important events that received their reaction in ukraine, in the world, and in the russian federation, they probably got something. let's talk now, with your permission, mr. vitaly, about the death of oleksiy navalny. he died in the colony, the official, now, as i understand it, intermediate or final version, sudden death syndrome. actually, were you surprised to learn that navalny was actually killed, or? brought to death, or killed, we do not know exactly what happened there, i was not surprised, what happened around navalny in the last, i would say, months, when he was transferred to this terrible colony in the north, and each time they were sent to a penal isolation cell , imagine the climatic conditions in this place in general, i imagine

nasintsov was sitting there, well, close, yes, but he was not as many times in a penal isolation cell as navalny once, and then sentsova before that they did not poison novachka. can you imagine the health of a person who was already taken out of the other world after such poisoning, ugh, and after that he was put in prison once or twice, transferred to the north and constantly received in isolation, that is, i am not saying, by the way, that oleg could not die there i could, too, but it's a matter of, you know, health and strength, so all this, for me, it was like a planned murder, by the way, i think that they wanted to kill oleg there in a planned way, they just didn't have time, ugh, that's it. .. and they were able to do it with navalny, they managed to do it, there was information that in a few months he could be exchanged for one of the kgb killers, who is actually sitting in europe now, but this will not happen, it is obvious. well, i don’t really believe that

someone wanted to replace navalny in the russian leadership, they don’t give up their enemies like that, the question arises, how is it, how is it in general, everything happened, you see, ukrainians have enough of a... unequivocal attitude towards navalny, i will not trace his political evolution here again, although you and i understand that this evolution took place, it developed for so many years. navalny has always had such controversial positions in the russian political movement, from flirting with right-wing extremists, from this phrase about a sandwich, to condemning putin's war, to recognizing the territorial integrity of ukraine, all this was, i think, navalny is primarily not so much a politician as an anti-corruption activist, you know, the kind of person we should have liked, because she was for justice, not for political changes, but for justice, i would say that ukrainian roots were very evident, to me navalny... always seemed more ukrainian politicians than russians from the point of view of social processes, because

instead of changing political institutions, he always spoke first of all about corruption, and the russians liked it very much, we have, as you remember, a lot of people also always made a career precisely on this point, we simply do not have such, i would say rigid relations between the government and society, as in russia, yes, but it is clear that such an attitude to political reality, it was useful for... the russian authorities up to a certain point, because it did not undermine the very essence of statehood, well, yes, well, yes , such a state is stealing here, but the state is correct, and at some point, when navalny began to say that they do not steal, but putin steals, by and large he took over the baton of boris nemtsov, who was killed in 2015, who spoke about putin's corruption , of course, this was quite seriously reflected in the attitude towards him, and by and large... made him the regime 's number one target, and besides, he was much

more charismatic than most of the russian opposition , this must also be admitted, he was a person who could bring a large number of people to the streets to defend him, no one else could do it, by and large, remember all these repressions against the russian opposition that took place over the years, and not a single person was perceived like this , as it was perceived by the average russian, primarily in moscow. because once again people perceived navalny as a person who fights for justice, why did navalny return after being poisoned, this is also an interesting story, but we may not underestimate it, some may consider it stupidity, some may consider it courage, but otherwise, the person was not afraid to challenge the regime, which actually wanted to destroy him, because poisoning a newcomer was no joke, huh. i think that on the one hand there was an underestimation of the regime, on

the other hand there was self-confidence popularity is exaggerated, perhaps than it was in reality, it is difficult to fully understand this whole story, i think that realistically, only when we see the open archives of the russian special services, we will understand the essence of this. you know, i often think about a person who , by and large, also became a hostage of this whole history, of his political popularity, who, by the way, was also a person with ukrainian roots in russian history, this is the priest george gapon, ugh, remember do you find such a person in the russian e-e revolutionary rusi, a person whose activities ended on bloody sunday in 1905. this was also an incredibly popular, incredibly charismatic person, a person who was ready to make

a sacrifice, along with this, a person who had some connections in various institutions of power, when gapon was alive, no one knew about these connections, he was perceived as an absolute oppositionist, but then it became obvious that there were certain structures in power there that were interested in such activities, in such so-called amateur activities, because they believed that it was safer than the real ones political forces, than social democracy , than anarchists, than socialists, revolutionaries, than those who throw bombs, the opposition, yes, and gapon, as a person, very sincerely, naively believed that if he stood there on the side of the workers, for justice , by rights, you can already imagine the conditions in which the workers lived in the russian empire at that time, he thought that he was doing a great thing, that he was changing the country, and in the end, in the end

, this horror of bloody sunday happened, the shooting of workers in st. petersburg in front of the royal palace, but you can imagine the level the popularity of the all-russian gapon at that time, this is a forgotten person, but when this bloody sunday happened, gapon was hiding in an apartment... maksym is a pity, he was a cult figure, and only when they found out that he had some connections with... some special services there, that he had contacts with the authorities, he was eventually killed by the revolutionaries themselves, they could not forgive him, well, these socialist revolutionaries, who believed that he had betrayed the revolutionary movement, but again , is it possible to think so, well, here it is again the person actually did not understand how

the political processes in the russian empire revolved, was very sincere, very charismatic, millions of russians were in love with... this person, but to understand what it was, for real, to write a book, if i were you , what i am telling you is the archives, you understand, but now imagine what happened after 1905, if there were no archives, then the archives were opened, a story was invented, and comrade stalin personally wrote that gopon was a provocateur of the tsarist guard, of course he never was not a provocateur. he was a man who tried to protect his workers through some contacts in the special services, because to try to recruit people from the authorities to his side, and here, here is the story of this unfortunate, unfortunate georgy gapon, because he was an unfortunate person who devoted his whole life to these

people, simple, and was killed as a result for this, reminds me very much of the life of alexei navalny. with this only difference that we do not have an archive, and with this only difference that we still cannot write, we do not have a real book about georgy gapon, although we should not write it, because it is one of the most incredible representatives of the ukrainian people in the imperial political life, such as oleksiy navalny, these are two stories, you understand, two stories of this eternal ukrainian love of truth, even a person becomes a russian and infects. russians themselves with this love of truth and this naive kind of faith in justice, which we see so often in the ukrainian people and not so often in the russian people, and even a person becomes a chauvinist in his views, but still this love of truth, somehow remains childish, this is a phenomenon that we can still talk about for a long, long, long time, but it is clear

that for the west, this story with navalny is another indicator that putin is just... that's exactly what i wanted to ask about, well joseph biden came out to speak about the death of alexei navalny, the munich conference began to revolve around this news at one point, and that's normal, as far as i'm concerned. this is a symbol, a symbol of contempt for political murder. but taking into account all this, on the eve of the own elections in russia federation, in a year when everything can change in america and many, many other factors, shouldn't putin... should carry navalny around like a sack and protect him like a baby, well, that's if you were putin, and putin is putin , he is not khrystyna yatskiva, why should putin treat someone like a sack, he wants to demonstrate that he is the master of the situation, he does what he wants, the main task of putin is to show everyone around that

he is, that there are no red lines, that he couldn't cross, and that he... nothing at all counts, and by the way, i have to say that now i perceive putin as this, the horynich snake, ugh, do you remember, there was one with three heads, this russian folklore character, there is one head of putin that i know well, which i have seen repeatedly, since the end of the 90s, this is the head of this st. petersburg gopnyak, who will urinate in the toilets, we will kill everyone... let's put things in order, this putin seemed completely unsuitable for any serious political activity, he is completely abnormal responded to calls, no went to the residence when there was an accident with the kursk submarine, treated these unfortunate women who lost their

husbands, submariners, with contempt, behaved completely inappropriately, like some person in sweatpants, came to the committee. to the office of the president of russia, and this putin did not go anywhere, we were his bachelor karsen several times, then the second head of putin appeared, which scared me more than the first, it is the head of a completely cold-blooded person who calculates, who solves mathematical problems, who creates some kind of traps for her enemies, is always waiting for an opportunity to strike, very calm, very measured, who is intelligent, who is very rare. is wrong in his plans, such a putin emerged around 2004-2005 after the yukas case, after the resignations of mikhail kasyanov, oleksandr voloshin and other people who still remained in the kremlin in essence. from boris yelson. that second putin was terrible, but at least i could analyze him, just like, you know, like a computer trying to work with another there. and now i saw

the third putin for a while, this putin , i think, i didn't see him first, the first we saw was emmanuel macron, when he came to moscow to talk about the attack, and gave putin a 40-minute lecture on history, the same lecture that we all now saw toker kaltsen, and this is putin, about whom he told me. gave even after the 15th year by people who worked with putin, that he is in some historical empires, that he lives there, that his, that he, as sergei lavrov said, consults with ivan the terrible and peter the first and catherine ii, these are his three advisers, and this, and these are the three advisers of this schizophrenic, but the problem is that these two heads have not disappeared either, and here we are dealing with such a three-headed monster, and it is always necessary to understand which of the heads . makes a decision at the moment, the decision on the death of navalny, it could be a cold, cold calculation to show that he is not going to give

anything to his enemies, yes, right before the presidential election, to show that this is not an election , and this is a plebiscite, this is strengthening absolute authoritarian power, what can the west do now with putin, when navalny was put in prison in 2021, president biden said that if something happens to navalny, putin will feel it quite seriously in his country, now he is forced to state that all the real possibilities for sanctions pressure on the russian federation have been exhausted khrystyna, this is an important point that needs to be said, this is the exhaustion of the resource, and then one has to agree with those who emphasize that the only possibility to respond to putin is murder. bulk, that not to give putin the opportunity to strengthen in ukraine, this is what mike johnson said, by the way, we mentioned it, that it is logical, why did the speaker of the house of representatives of the american congress say that, because

it is not known how else to answer, what can you do at the moment he is still being pestered, there are sanctions, everything is disconnected, there is no trade , the situation is difficult, well, i apologize, do not give him ukraine, do not give him ukraine, and a lot of people are writing about this now, if you want him to really understand , which can... the consequences of navalny's murder, give russian assets to ukraine, give 60 billion dollars to ukraine, give ukraine the opportunity, if not to free all its territory now, then at least not give putin the opportunity to hope that he can take over this country? this is an absolutely correct answer, because again it is not only about the personality of navalny, the loss of navalny, it can be said, such a loss for those people in russia who were hoping for some alternative, for a different one, you understand, any alternative is important because that it is alternative. and the russians have no alternatives, oh, but the point of the situation is that it is not normal for a government to kill its political opponents in cold blood in a colony,

put them to death or organize their murder, ugh, because by and large we can honestly say that putin has restored the death penalty in russia, that's how you can say, obviously, then navalny didn't do anything for which he deserved a death card. they were constantly inventing one crime after another, one after another, just making fun of what was once justice, of course it didn't start now, it started in a big way with khodorkovsky, with yuko, when they just decided to steal someone else's company, and then they started talking about selective justice, and when it turned out that nothing could be done with them, they believed that they could do it and from that time this regime begins. to become the way he is, there is always this imperfect reaction of the outside world, the fact that they continued to communicate with them, do business, conduct negotiations, always

allowed them to believe that they could hold someone hostage, well, khodorkovsky they also released it, released it after many years of interest, at the personal request of the former german vice chancellor hans dietrich genscher, but khodurkovsky was a figure, let's say. yes, who during her stay in prison was not engaged in political activities, and for putin it may have been an important moment that he could allow him to leave the country, it should also be remembered that the russia with which khodorkovsky left is not the russia in which navalny died, this is the russia in which the russia of the third president died, by the way, navalny was poisoned in the russia of the first heads he returned to russia for the second term and died in russia for the third term, it must also be understood that this perturbation happened very quickly. i believe that when we look at putin, it is in this conversation. with carlson

, by the way, this is also an interesting moment, here toker carlson did not ask anything about navalny, nothing at all, when he was asked about it, he said that he did not want to ask these questions that all american journalists ask, he does not want to talk about murder, leadership is always murder, he said, but that was before navalny's death, and what toker carlson looks like now, with his trip to putin and with all this behavior, he essentially nullified the whole... this propaganda moment, this whole performance, this must also be understood, and by and large, i think that what we observed when this story from rurik to the present day took place, it was clear that he himself understood that he should not say this, well, he was just talking, he was carried somewhere, he wanted to say all this, but as a politician , but there was one

head fighting, saying: volodya has reached them signal, stop, we need to show that you are the leader of the conservative world, no, no , volodya, i told about ancient novgorod, they need to understand, rurik was there, volodya, please, this is for trump, so that it is easy for him to say, that he will be able to come to an agreement with you and stop the war, you have to deceive them, no, volodya, i am not done yet, i have to tell you about the austrian general staff, volodya, well stop, there is not much time, you have to say something that is necessary for american. audience, we agreed, this is a rather serious calculation, we sat they were preparing for this, volodya, don’t bother me, i have to tell about the poles, and hitler, and hitler, and there is a third volodya, my god, how stupid you all are, my god, both of them, god, who am i dealing with, yes, will soak this carlson and everything was necessary, and see if the death of navalny actually multiplied by zero the impression of

the interview, and not only the interview, of all those millions of people who watched it and somehow wavered in their sympathy or antipathy, or simply equal treatment of putin, because we understand that there are many such people countries and even in the same united states, is it now enough, if only for a while, to become toxic, so that even trump no longer puts on it together with his masks and so on and so forth. i know how he was not toxic at all before this death, everything, everything he did before was not toxic, but it was, so to speak, but you got used to it, it's like getting used to toxins, after all, to, to , to, to the murder of navalny, they can also get used to it, but it really happened very quickly after he appeared on the screens again, this will certainly be a serious mistake, to prepare for such an interview, until 2024, so he has not given an interview to americans since 2021, to western

journalists since... the 22nd, that is, here indeed, such a not very serious appearance on the screens took place as a result. then , a few days ago, before navalny's death, he had to explain everything he wanted to say in an interview to russian television, this is also, by the way, a huge problem that he is forced to explain to an american journalist for two hours after an interview with a russian to journalists, what he wanted to say in the previous text is... also a problem, and as a result, all these efforts, all his publicity, really turned out to be completely meaningless against the background of his next crime, because everyone understands that he is not a statesman , what does he need to show that he is a statesman, well, such a statesman, authoritarian, but with his values, with his idea of ​​the world, and his idea of ​​justice, here he was deceived, here he wanted to join nato, he was not accepted, here he wanted somewhere else, and then they imagine that he

just killer huh. moreover, again, it is impossible to understand with navalny what he wanted from him, well, by and large, what navalny said, that he should have been killed about putin, that putin owns gelendzhak palace, that definitely deserves death, or that putin there are some corrupt structures, yes , putin himself is a great fighter against corruption, as you know, he and lukashenko are the main fighters against corruption, well, some fight one way, some another, that is, i have a huge question, so to speak, about all this, uh, okay , we will follow, by the way, today in russia they are trying to find navalny's body, and there are also big problems with this. you can finally, this is the munich conference and ovation for navalny's wife. i'm sorry, but i know how women look when they have just been informed of the death of their husband. what do you think? i think that women who are in political, i would say, in symbiosis with their husband for

many years, they are ready for anything. so look not only at yulia navalna, look.