to understand what he wanted from him, well, by and large, what navalny said , that he should have been killed about putin, that putin owns the gelendzhuk palace, it definitely deserves death, or that putin has some corrupt structures, yes, putin himself is a great fighter , as you know with corruption, they and lukashenka are the main fighters against corruption, well , some fight in this way, some in another way, that is , i have a huge question, so to speak, about all this, uh, well, we will follow, there, by the way, today in russia, they are trying to find navalny's body. with this, too, they appear big problems, you can finally, this is the munich conference and the ovation for navalny's wife, i'm sorry, but i know how women look who have just been informed of the death of their husband, what do you think? i think that women who are in a political political, i would say, in symbiosis with their husband for many years, they are ready for anything, but look not only at yulia navalna, look... alive, fortunately, although

he can that's exactly how lukashenko can be destroyed at any moment, she lives with that, you understand when you live with tragedy , you look different than when you can't live with it, so i'm like, and then you know, there's another moment of adrenaline, you're talking about yulia navalna, i saw that performance, well, imagine , i don't know if you can imagine it. your behavior when you are informed of the death of a loved one, i can't imagine, but i have seen the behavior of women who have just received the news of the death of their husbands, they are men who died in the war, and it would seem that these women also understood that this version of the development of events, it is probable, that's right, but they did not interact, they waited, waiting and interaction are not all the same, then again, people in such situations... behave very differently,

so that, it's quite obvious, some people just die in their grief, some people try to do everyday things, ugh, not to lose their common sense, that's how the human brain works, everyone's different, and i 'm sorry, but i think that when you know that your husband is in the far north, he is kept in isolation all the time, you understand perfectly, huh. not with the heart but with the head, that something has to happen, and on the other hand, while you still don't think that there is an obligation, that you have to represent the person with whom you are connected and the memory of him, first of all a living person, and then the memory of her, because you are the same, the same tool through which this person can still say something to the outside world, the same always happened with the wives of famous prisoners, they took on the mission of their husband. whom you either

kept in prison or did not give him the opportunity to leave the country, and these women were its main representatives. elena boner received the nobel prize for academician andrei sakharov, winnie mandela, well , that is, you can cite a huge number of such examples. and what happens to women who replace their murdered husbands in the positions of heads of state? as it happened more than once, well, you might think that the last thing a woman who learns about the death of a loved one would want to do is become the president or prime minister, but the exact opposite happens, such women become flags, political leaders, very often more important than their husbands. well, actually, you already mentioned tikhanovskaya, yulia navalna met with her, and here the question is whether she can become a continuation of what she started. the problem

is that navalny himself was not a person who could concentrate all this russian opposition energy, yulia navalnya may just be a reminder of the sacrifice of navalny himself, but then again, you and i, well listen, sirimava bandaranaik was not there, the first prime minister of ceylon who is sri lankan now, who headed the state after the death of her husband solomon bandaren, how he was killed, she became the head of the country, well, such examples... i remember a huge number from world history, this is how it generally looks, you understand, this is what a marriage of like-minded people looks like, that , what we are talking about, we are talking about different things, because marriage in politics and marriage in ordinary life are different unions, well, you can, it's one thing when you are waiting for a person, wherever you are. from the front, from a business trip,

from some dangerous expedition, you are waiting for him, it's another matter when you present it, and what do we have a lot of it? soldiers' widows and mothers , who later become social activists , save other children, other people who find their vocation in this after such grief, it might seem to us that they have to somehow close themselves off in this grief, no, these people very often become real heroines, and by the way, even in authoritarian countries, i am not talking about ukraine, it also happened very often that people who lost their children or husbands, who had nothing to lose, tried to save at least other people's, and who couldn't get their own. they are different people's reactions are accepted absolutely accepted we started this program with audio and many people said that putin's political goal before the elections was to seize it, to serve this victory on a plate to the russian plebs, but

again, did the story with navalny not overshadow the admiration avdiivka in the minds of russians, well, again, what russians, ugh, russians who... watch television or russians, let's say, who live in another world, in a world of other news, russians who watch television, the voice-over is undoubtedly more important than navalny, although there is no truth, the children even reported on russian television about navalny’s death, it is very strange, by the way, that they still, however briefly, in a few words, but reported that novalny died, that too, the beauty, in my opinion, was not honored like that, if i'm not mistaken, no, they said something there too. about the catastrophe, but simply in soviet times, when some opposition activist, some dissident died or died there, as you understand, no television it was not told about it, here is a real message on all propaganda channels, yes from this federal

correctional service, but the fact itself, did they understand that this is a significant figure for people, but in any way for most people, of course the ukrainian topic may remain important... i don't know how important avdiyivka is for the russians, maybe it's important for them , and those russians who are sick with the chauvinist virus, maybe it's important for them that the russian army is moving forward, i this can't say, to be honest, and it 's a huge question for me too, uh, as far as it can be understood, but in any case, it's absolutely obvious that the situation is related to what we're seeing now in... russian this eager to show that they are moving forward, they will try to continue to do so, but again, do they have the strength, do they have the resources, what do they really want to achieve? well, if we are talking about avdiivka, this is a war for 10 years, and the last

assaults, they are also there, let's say, there, well, on months, if they are going to spend so much energy on each settlement of ukraine, then what do they want to achieve... the result, how long they want to fight for each village in donbas, is also a question that putin should have asked himself. ugh. actually, the exit from avdiyivka fell on the first week of the presidency of the ukrainian army, colonel-general oleksandr syrskyi. i don't envy him, to be honest, it's extremely difficult work and extremely difficult decisions that were ultimately made. and, by the way, syrskyi, how does it turn out? appeared in the ratings and enjoys the trust of 40% of ukrainian citizens as the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. i was a little surprised that this week we had the opportunity to observe some numbers, ratings and so on, and to discuss this

is extremely important for ukrainian society, and that is why i would like to devote at least 5 minutes of our conversation to this. have you seen these numbers? i've seen those numbers, i keep saying the same thing, i'm absolutely...not interested in wartime confidence numbers. why, why has this sociology been made public now, and is there anything in it negative point? i think that this sociology was aprolutive with one simple purpose: to see how the public mood changed after the resignation of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine valery zaluzhny, because it was a socially significant, politically significant, any significant moment. we will not doubt it. and it was important to understand how ratings change. trust in military leaders, in political leaders, well, we saw it, but it could have been predicted even without any ratings, you it took sociology to understand that , let’s say, there, at the moment, the trust rating for the hard-working will grow, uh, and

the trust rating for the president of ukraine there will either be stable or decrease, and the trust rating for the new commander-in-chief will be extrapolated with trust for of the armed forces as such, because if we say that eh... trust in the armed forces as such has about 90% in ukrainian society, if not more, then any commander of the armed forces of ukraine will have a high trust rating any high. armed forces became a mythologized figure, this is not a question of the position , it is a question of the personality of the volunteer, it seems to me that this is something that many cannot realize, this is generally what distinguishes such a society as the ukrainian one, the mythologisation of images, we are not very different in this respect from dew but i can tell you how we differ from russians, russians mythologize a character,

very often completely random and incomprehensible, who appears out of nowhere, like lenin or stalin or putin, who are these people in general, where did they come from, one arrived at the station, the other was generally found there among the partapartmen, this one was put up by yeltsin, he took it from where it is not clear , and they fall in love, and they love until lenin’s death even after, but... a person dies, and they suddenly they begin to despise her, to say that they loved her too much, to drag her out of the mausoleum, like stalin, i think the same moment is waiting for putin, but after his physical death, debunking will begin, screams, oh, we didn’t know, we didn’t they thought, oh, he killed navalny, my god, what an oh, he is attacked ukraine, who would have thought, god, we lived here, didn't know, ogre? they fermented, they ate cabbage, and you can imagine how terrible agrippino was, who was cruel, my god

, and this is what we hear every 50 years, and this is russian love, but there is another love, ukrainian, which continues for two years, in the south everything grows quickly, quickly goes down, this is a known fact, ukrainians fall in love, and it is strange to me that every person who becomes the center of... this love, she cannot understand that it will end, but i always wait for the moment when someone says to me: oh, we, you know, we , we like what you say, we like what you do, i know that this person can write to me two years from now: i'm very disappointed, you don't lived up to my expectations, it turns out that you are the same as everyone else, and i am ready for this at the moment when this person says that he likes what i do, always psychologically, and the people who are involved in politics for some reason do not want it to see, they... don't understand what they have, well, it's just that i'm engaged in journalism, i have there may be more distance, in politics it is

a very short period of falling in love, and then you are left with some small sect that loves you, as a rule, and they move on to a new falling in love, and this is expected of everyone, because this is the ukrainian political character, if if it were my will, i would elect the presidents here for two years, just as they would... in the center of their popularity, because they retired and were considered the fathers of the nation, well , or like in switzerland, it changes every year, and every once it was possible they would to love, a person emerges here, which means that a huge rating of love and trust appears in him, even with prime ministers, this happens, then a year later, whoever he is, we voted for him, we like him, where did you get that, look at me, but i love it, i don't love it, such an amazing moment, but it was... always in ukrainian history the hetmanship, dear, did not

have time to elect a hetman, already the cossacks don't like him , and you chose love, what a wonderful uncle, he will do everything for us, and so on now, now is such a moment, and i'm not even talking about valery zaluzhny, he became a symbol of the armed forces of ukraine, and when he was seen as a living person, but he as a symbol lived up to expectations. well, it happens when a person matches the expectations from the institution, well, it can be a long period, a long period of waiting, let's say there, hopes, if you imagine some further political processes there, that someday valery zaluzhnyi will want to be involved in politics in some future , and he will still be elected president of ukraine in two years, a large number of people will say: "no, well, after all, it is necessary that not a military man be the president, but some kind of economist." so what, well, that’s how the political process develops, but i’m not talking about that, i’m saying, i don’t understand why

it’s necessary to compete here, uh, why is it necessary in such a situation, but we’ve been discussing ratings with you for a long time, what’s the purpose here we need competition between the political and military leadership of the country and to understand what will happen, when everything is clear, i will write all the ratings for 10 years ahead, i do not need to walk people, i can just sit down and write all the ratings for you, what they will be... any person who understands at all what country he is in, can make them, you can dissolve all the sociological centers, save money, well, because it is clear how our people think, if they thought differently, well , that's all, that is, you can, again, you can overcome your opponent in an authoritarian state, as putin does, if you live in a relatively democratic state, then you are a hostage one way or another political process and the process of social thinking, and even if you

you can overcome your opponent in some way by means of some kind of propaganda campaign, removal from office. the fact that he will not be shown to us in any media, another will appear, another will be loved, a heart, a ukrainian heart that wants to love, that longs for love, that lives only in the hope that someone will appear, who can be loved, and he will do everything and save, it will definitely find all this for itself, this is written by great leaders in all ukrainian novels, operas, poems. here and there, my heart is pounding, there is nothing in russian culture, there is nothing there doesn't tickle, that's all, that's why the tsar knows whom we love, he will tell us who to love, we will love, and the previous tsar will tell us to love the next tsar, yeltsin had a 5% popularity rating at the time of putin's election, and he

said: i want this, not this one that you want, but this one that i want, well, since sal batyushka wants... who, then what can we do? we will go, we will choose, yes, the tsar 's will, the law, and we also spat on the roster, well, how, by the way, when leonid danilovich kuchma tried to say something like that to us, that he wants yanukovych, well, take your pick, these are different worlds, as if close, but so different, look, mr. vitaly, while ukraine is waiting and also searching for what we can use to oppose the russian federation and what to shoot at it, it has. .. the situation when the head of the association of defense enterprises, ex-nard serhii pashynskyi, actually finds himself under investigation for the case as far back as 2014, the 14th, yes , the 14th year, we are talking about the confiscation of fuel for the benefit of the state, in particular there for the armed forces ukraine, the matter that we discussed, it seems to me 10 years ago, yes, that's right, and in the end, according

to pashinsky himself, at the end of the summer of 2023 , the russian federation organized a special operation... blocking the supply of ammunition to ukraine, and we understand that one way or another, it was written about in the foreign press, by the way, now we can, when we talk about the role of pashinsky, finally refer to the new york times, and not to some of our own sources, and this is an important thing, because what is happening around this person and whether certain important, very important moments for us are not at risk, i i think it's not about the person of pashynskyi as such, and it is about the fact that we cannot understand what we need, relatively speaking, checkers or to go, what do we need? we need control over defense enterprises, or to have our own weapons, we don't have many effective managers, effective enterprises that produce our own weapons, without our own weapons, that we did not talk about aid, about money, about foreign weapons, but if we do not establish the production of our own weapons, well,

if we cannot create effective tools of our own confrontation with russia, in we will be in... big problems in the future, this is the first moment, the second moment, any acquisition of weapons from at such moments, these are always delicate situations, and this must also be understood, i read this story in the new york times about how in the first months of the war , it seems that pashynskyi and his employees got all these shells and all the other weapons that we needed so much from bulgaria in order to withstand the most difficult weeks and months of the existence of the ukrainian state in 2022 year, i... will not deal with these affairs, because i'm not an investigator, but i'm absolutely sure that if you want to do everything exactly this way at this moment, check all the contracts so that everything is written there letter by letter, so that no one digs into you, so that nothing like that happens , then in the end it’s a coincidence, you live with white people, all laws are fulfilled, everything is done correctly, all contracts are checked, only the country is gone, here the russian federation, you

are all so honest in emigration, but it ’s not about that at all, if they our law enforcement officers were engaged in some... these new cases, we could it is to analyze and say: maybe something was not done there, but really, when a person is approached for a case, for a case from ten years ago, then we can say that a political process is being launched, true, because the question arises, what about 10 years from now what happened to this case, how it will all look, why it was started to be investigated right now, when society is now interested in the fact that our law, let's say this... corruption-investigative structures were engaged in the current corruption in the supply of the necessary things for the armed forces, for them to disperse. these stereotypes that exist in society about the total corruption of the system, it may not be true, let them say, let them conduct an investigation and say about it, this is a very important thing, and it seems to me

that the very fact that we are talking about , what was happening now, and about what happened in 2014, different explanations have been given on this matter a million times, it reminds me of history, this whole eternal scandal with yanukovych's money, remember, pashinsky was also at the center of this whole story and all they said, well, how is it possible to take money illegally? well, how can you illegally take yanukovych's money? and also there was all this hysteria all the time, and we all the time understood who needed it, and i'll even tell you honestly, well, of course, for the russians , it would be necessary for us to have as few people as possible who could oppose them in this situation, for me it is an obvious thing, and for me an obvious thing is the infiltration of ukrainian structures by any people who treat it like this, because we have to remember that the russians were actively working here for years if not decades, next to us, many people who were here next to us, literally in parliament, in various ministries, wherever, took their bags on

one fine day, first in the 14th year, and then in the 24th, on the 22nd, i apologize, and everyone went somewhere, not somewhere, in a known direction, and the question arises, these went once, these went, who, everyone went, for sure, no one stayed, you know that this is also a huge question, which i always ask myself, what is the number of hidden agents of the russian special services, specially created in order to to open up at a certain critical moment that exists next to us, this is not a conspiracy, this is just the usual work of professionals, ugh, so this should be taken seriously, so that we are not left, you know, without anything, well, a little near east, where without him, literally today, no, it happened yesterday, emmanuel macron. declared that the recognition of a palestinian state is not a taboo for paris. he noted that france could take unilateral decisions if efforts aimed at solving the problem based on the two-

state principle do not move forward due to opposition israel now a politician is speaking with such a publication, and in general , it would seem, emmanuel macron did not say anything special, because the creation of a palestinian state is something that was agreed upon back in the middle of the 20th century, since the year 48, yes, that's all. the format somehow never got formatted, excuse the taftology, and the palestinian state remained to exist solely on paper. the whole point is that now many western politicians, not only macron, first of all the president of the united states joseph biden, have serious complaints before israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu even goes to war in the middle east, they think he should be more careful, they think he should think. more about her release of hostages , about the end of the war, netanyahu has an absolutely clear view that israel must destroy hamas, that they can no longer coexist

with hamas, and this is a contradiction not only between netanyahu and biden, between netanyahu and macron, but you can say between israeli society and the west, it exists, objectively, this contradiction, and by the way, it reminds us to a certain extent, because we want to achieve a maximalist result, we want to reach the border of 1991. we count it a win, i count it a win, you count it a win, everyone counts it a win, how easy can it be, sure, and what's next? we are: the war will end, russia will fall apart, but this is our wish, we don't know what will happen next if our army goes to the border in 1991, it's true, but we just talked with mr. chal, that's not the case just looks from a point of view in general, our participation in security organizations and so on, and now the next question, and israel, does israel know what will happen if it... or what kind of forces need a base, uh, in the gas sector, this is a support base for to really destroy hamas , despite the fact that hamas is a huge electoral force of terrorist organizations, and not

just something like that, and this is a huge question, of course, and you know, from the fact that macron recognizes a palestinian state, nothing will change, significantly, russia recognizes the palestinian state, there is an embassy of the palestinian state in moscow, china recognizes the palestinian state, there is an embassy of the palestinian state in beijing, ukraine recognizes the palestinian state. there is an embassy of the palestinian state in kyiv, and that the state is real control over the territory, and not recognition by other states, a large number of countries there recognize the sahrawi arab democratic republic, and the united states considers morocco a part of it, and so what, that is, what is important where is the real government located, what does it really control, if it controls the embassy in other countries of the world, then it is only its problems, so it's really important to get to the point where we'll see how the middle east will be resolved. question, and i will tell you honestly , i believe that every such excess that we see, it does not bring the establishment of a palestinian state closer, but most likely makes its existence almost unreal, i

at all. i believe that every decade that the inhabitants of the palestinian authority spend on struggle, and not on the creation of their own state and on fixed institutions in the territory they have, in principle turns the palestinian state into a political fiction, because the mood in israeli society is changing, and the mood in the arab world is changing, and israel is looking for some kind of agreement with the arab world, and the arab world is not very interested in the palestinians, the elites are definitely not interested in it, 10-15-20 years will pass and the palestinian state will remain only in its embassies in other countries of the world, and this is also an absolute reality that must be accepted one way or another by those people who today believe that violence is the best way to create such a state, i think that this is the most obvious way to the fact that it remained exclusively in the analogue, not even in history, because there has never been a palestinian state in history, in the analogue of the international organizations that advocated its creation, there is nothing new in this, but i just

i would like the middle east to have... a model of two states for two peoples who would recognize each other and would not want to destroy the other until the moment when the palestinians think that their state will be located on the territory of the state of israel, they do not care nothing but support terrorist organizations, israeli special operations, displacement from the territories where they live and absolutely historical hopelessness, it is a pity that this does not work with russia, because according to the court they also think to capture, kill, destroy, of course, because for hamas, the palestinian state must be in the territory israel, and for russia. "the russian state should be on the territory of ukraine, yes, it is the same approach, and if someone does not agree with this, then we will kill, rape, rob him, we cannot have a political dialogue about this, because in reality it was necessary for all these decades, if we return to the middle east, to conduct a political dialogue, this is how we recognize your jewish state, this is how we believe that the fact that we are not in this territory is a disaster for us, that we left those places

where we were, and..." our arab compatriots were resettled from arab countries to israel, but we want, we want to have a state, we want to receive compensation for damaged and taken property, we want you to allow us to visit we want those territories where we have been without any problems joint investments, we want the coexistence of two states, we want and want this, and we want this, and this is a political conversation, and when we say, we want to kill you, throw you into the sea, then the armies of the arab states will come and cut you all down, well, excuse me. then there will be a completely different story, there will be a different conversation with you, a conversation in the language of power that only you understand, and then we will see who is stronger, and this is how this confrontation has looked since 1948, and of course, i repeat for this side, which is still i did not understand that the logic of force does not lead to anything, it is absolute hopeless, and in principle it makes absolutely fantastic the fulfillment of all those goals set by terrorist organizations, such as hamas, and previous organizations, such as the united palestine organization, which never liberated palestine, which never understood its

futility. these efforts, and when it became clear, it was already too late, because already a huge number of palestinian youth had already stopped thinking in a realistic way, and this is the same, by the way, that is happening with the russians, it is true, unfortunately, and that is why i say that i see a solution to all these issues exclusively when it comes to political dialogue. after all, when putin told katsen that we are... ukrainians are a fictional nation, and any karpson could ask him why he is killing this nation, if you think that kharkiv is russia, why you are destroying kharkiv, if you think that mariupol is russia, why are you destroying mariupol, if you think that odessa is a beautiful russian city, why are you shelling odessa, well, there are other examples, bulgarians there consider macedonians as their bulgarian brothers, but they are not shelling ohrid and trying to destroy macedonia, they are conducting a political historical dialogue, the poles want

to talk with us about historical memory, but they don't want to... destroy lviv or ternopil, because they don't like that ukrainians live there , civilized peoples talk even on topics they don't like, but barbarians, they kill, shoot, rape, and this is exactly what we started our dialogue with today, which begins with the killing of strangers, and then there is a huge desire to kill their own who do not agree with you, because this is the only opportunity to prove. it's your political opportunity and your power, it's just killing wherever you can kill, here we are dealing with such a situation, khrystyna, thank you, thank you infinitely, vitaly portnikov, the saturday political club, were with you and we hope that by next saturday you will support armed forces of ukraine, think critically, this is extremely important in our time, good luck.