they track trolls, track bots, all those connected to russia, let's watch together. and now it's time for our daily truth-or-fake fact-checking column with emerald maxwell. emerald, you researched a new method of disinformation known as operation matryoshka that was exposed by the organization. related to russia. what exactly is this operation. yes, johnny. operation matryshka goes beyond simply creating or spreading fake news. now they are using a new disinformation tactic, which antibot navalny and the afp website have researched. which is engaged in fact-checking. here is an example of this tactic. we have a post on the social network. where someone asked fact checknet if this is

real news referring to a video and it seems like an innocent question but is it really? let's look at another example: there is a social media user x , katie, who asks, i see news like this every day, the official channels are silent, why should i believe, and publishes a story that allegedly shows a ukrainian artist painting the eiffel tower from her profile i see also a seemingly innocent question, and if we for just a few hours, putting one and looking at katie's profile, we see that...

she clearly uses an ai-generated photo, she joined the network in september 2023, is subscribed to 10 accounts and has zero followers. all this indicates that this is a bot account. according to afp, dozens, if not hundreds , of bot accounts like catty's have been using this tactic since december to spam western media asking them to check facts that are clearly fake. but then, what exactly is the point of this whole matryoshka operation? so basically, it's a waste of time for journalists and fact-checkers, distracting them from real or fake news they don't want to debunk with some more concrete fake stories they 've made up. it also makes false information more invisible. if we look at history. which they

refer to, we will see that they are obviously fake and often quite primitive, for example, the story about ukrainian looters trying to rob the paris catacombs, they also use channel logos so that it looks real, like here we have the logo of rfi, our sister radio station, on this story about the ukrainian artist on the eiffel tower in the corner the icon of the german deutsche welle, the very name of the womb or... russian doll, because it is designed to distract and confuse the real situation. many social media accounts asking for fact-checking like katy also publish other fake news directed against ukraine. and most of these accounts in use appear to have been real users to begin with, like for example, this person. we see that he joined in january 2018. he last posted in april 2019. before his account

was hacked and around december 2023 he started spamming a lot of media asking for fact-checking on this fake news, so that's a very telling sign that it's a bot, and by the way, after afp's publication, a lot of such content was removed from the internet. this campaign comes against the backdrop of another company that french intelligence has exposed as having clear ties to russia. campaign that impersonates for western media sites to spread fake news about ukraine. we've covered this before on true or fake, and while we can't exactly link the matryoshka campaign to russia, it appears to be part of its war with ukraine, in which russian trolls are experimenting with various methods of disinformation. all the stories are anti-ukrainian in nature, and most of them were initially spread by russian telegram accounts. so take care

matryoshka, emerald maxwell, thank you so much for raising awareness, be careful on social media, you never you know what is real. anyway, thank you to our viewers, soon we will see you again to find out more news on france 24, this is how the information matryoshkas are chewed and chewed by our colleagues from france-24, and this is where france is, and where is racha and the centers that generate them . but we will actually talk about new challenges and an absolute upgrade in the informational component of this war with lyubov tsybulska, an expert in strategic communications. mrs. lyubov, welcome to our air. i congratulate you. you know, sometimes you even

miss the times when the boy was crucified fed three-calorie snowman, fighting geese. together with mosquitoes flew with dna signs to destroy russians in russia. another, now, another distribution system , the packaging of fakes has become much more difficult , the algorithms of various bot farms work better, and the worst thing is that the information immunity has weakened, the number of ukrainians who participate in the spread of lies is simply increasing, so much. how much is the number of subscribed telegram channels growing in their gadgets, what to do? yes, indeed, you are right, the disinformation machine is russian, in particular very adapted to new realities, especially since artificial artificial internet,

ai, artificial intelligence appeared, and now there are much more opportunities to create disinformation, spread it, and telegram is definitely... one of the main sources of dissemination in ukraine disinformation, and according to the latest polls, unfortunately, ukrainians consider telegram to be the main source of information for themselves in principle, that is, not the media, but this social network , where anonymous telegram channels are widespread, where there are no community standards, where there is no regulate regulations, and worst of all, there is no cooperation. with our special services, that is, it is very difficult to establish contact with them and ask them to remove certain content, or to explain the logic of their actions, that is, it is a constant danger, it seems to us that we

can find out everything there, in fact, very often we fall into the traps of the russian special services directly , who very often, by the way, pretend that they are... ukrainian spreaders, ms. love, we have been talking about the actual danger of this same telegram for some time, about what is possible, even it would be appropriate in ukraine to somehow block or ban it, i don’t know in what way this is technically possible or impossible, but we ask you to explain what can be done with this social network, and this is today’s situation, when for a little while, literally for a few minutes, but telegram was actually... unavailable, not working, it was not possible to get information from it, is this some kind of random failure in the program, or can you see something else in it? and what can be done with telegram? in fact, if telegram does not want to go to a meeting, but to us,

as a country that is going to join the european union, we need to establish this regulation, that's exactly what the european union is doing now, trying to... through certain acts to regulate large social networks, and if we want to join the european union, then we need the same rules and the same laws should be introduced in ukraine, and if telegram does not want to meet it, then probably such a situation may arise that it will have to be blocked. so far, as far as i know, our... special services are trying to get in touch, they are trying to establish this contact, but it is clear that if the telegram is controlled from russia, then it will be much more difficult to do, in relation to today's situation, i think that you should ask those who know, that is

, the ukrainian special services, madam, look, we somehow also have a misunderstanding of the algorithm, how we act, we have various units that before... teach a certain information cyber protection, it exists in the special services, and in the police, and in the government, there is also a grassroots initiative, which also cooperate with... in order to work and bomb, to destroy, for example, the army of bots on the territory of russia, or their botfarms and so on, we sometimes even have information from those communities, and that is, everything is clear, like their logic, how they work and what where they hit, but when such large-scale informational and psychological special operations are taking place against ukraine, we cannot understand the logic here, well, for example, two two to... lies would be spread on all telegram channels and other social networks about the fact that

they flew into selidovo from the training ground and almost got there i don't know, 2 million armed forces were destroyed by one missile, but it was spreading, all these lies, and we did not see, for example, that it was at the official level, at least it would have been repelled by the specialized cyber troops or at the level of the general staff, we saw in a completely different way how official spokespeople did not want to comment on this... special information operation , remember, with the downed il-76, they immediately launched that there were two guards there, there were not many captured bodies, but everyone destroyed their own and so on, that is, we did not understand in which places you are, what fakes we have in the state at the official level immediately repels the attack, on which it rests on the shoulders i don't know journalists, fact-checkers and enthusiasts there, although it seemed that both of them were informational. works are very dangerous and well lit. in fact, it very much

depends on the state's ability to do a quick fall, quick fact-checking. and sometimes these capabilities are lacking. therefore, sometimes the reaction is much slower. but you really said correctly, we have many institutions responsible for this. we have a center for countering disinformation, it is directly its task to refute fakes. we have a lot of community organizations that are really great cope with this work, for example, the same stop-fake, but i would like to add here that in fact the challenges are ahead of our ability to respond to them, that is, in the information field of these dangers there are more and more every year, and so far ours are just as legal systems can't keep up with the development of potential responses. and for example, now we can already see that with the advent of artificial intelligence, as well as with fakes, yes, that is, now you can

actually make any appeal of any politician, with very, very good, very competent tools, and people are unlikely will be able to say so easily that this is not true, and with the appearance of these opportunities, i think that... this threat, it becomes even greater, so it is very important for us to gather now and come up with an answer to it at the state level , and which one can we come up with, ms. lyubor, look, in peaceful america, it seems as if they have not found a solution there, there companies are competing to see who will make the best chat jpt or other artificial intelligence, and immediately they enter, so generated. voices generated by artificial intelligence, deep fakes, such voices, already have criminal liability, the video

must state that it was generated by artificial intelligence, otherwise there will be liability, that is, it has already been found somehow, we are in a warring country, where, in principle, fakes are the same projectiles and sometimes they are much larger, because we we understand that it is simply impossible to count the number of victims of the information war, but... absolutely impossible, and remember, in fact, what was the scandal, i will even say so, when we closed vkontakte and classmates, which were under the full control of the fsb since 2014, yes and how much was those who wanted to continue to watch this free content, which is in any direction, but some time has passed and society has switched, of course, nothing lasts forever, there are other social networks, i really hope that ... that something like this will happen with telegram, vkontakte, as we know, it was

not just free content, as of 2016, when we already closed vkontakte, there were about a thousand anti-ukrainian groups with a total number of followers of more than 10 million people, you can imagine, that is this is the spread of dehumanization, this is the spread of hatred against ukrainians against ukrainians, and besides all this, there were very clear, very physical. the consequences, for example, of stealing the geolocations of our military, yes, stealing the personal data of our military, and the same thing is actually happening in telegram, so we... first of all, we need to find a way to explain to our own population why you can't use it and you can't share your data, isn't it too late at this point when a huge number of the country is actually registered on telegram, reads telegram, and we tracked, we already talked about these chains, how to easily reveal a whole bunch

of contacts, even if someone does not use telegram, but, for example, i call... some person and he is in my vkontakte, i am registered in telegram, and already that person is also on the hook, so to speak, and in telegram, yes, yes, well, that is, and this is often the answer i hear, well, i don’t share anything like that there, well, i don’t have anything secret, i’m not like that an important person, in fact it is a danger to everyone, to all your contacts, to those of your loved ones who are fighting now, ah, and i really really want to believe that... already all the ukrainian defense forces, all the ukrainian military know that you can’t share, you can’t communicate in telegram, and their loved ones, their relatives should understand this as well, so what do we know, the first thing that wives like to ask is actually what i heard from the ukrainian military, where are you

, and this is what they often ask in telegrams, such information is definitely not possible there. to report, huh, but in addition to telegram , there are other platforms that, after all , have a different effect on ukrainians than on foreigners. well, let's put it this way, facebook in the american sector and facebook in ukraine are like two different facebooks. in addition, in addition, facebook seemed to be the first after all those senate hearings and other scandals, was the first to respond that it would respond, in particular to bot farms, to bots and accounts and all other methods of distribution, but already for several years, ukrainian users have been faced with the fact that they actually have to fight for each case separately, quite often the units that run facebook, for example, completely block information from ukrainians, which is absolutely questionable from the point of view

of spreading some prohibitions for the community there call. before, i don't know, cutting someone's head off, or before violence, or before shootings. on the other hand, the same zuckerberg army in individual countries absolutely does not move the content taught by the same margarita simonyan and rasha today, or officially 60 minutes with kabeevo, and they absolutely do whatever you want on youtube, on facebook, and in this case, what should ukraine do as a country victim of russian aggression, i.e. russian content somehow... is not blocked, and ukrainian ones, even at the private level , quite often fall under the bank for a month. actually, yes, since 2016 since the american election, facebook has really started to pay attention to the spread of disinformation and is finding this coordinated inauthentic

activity, which is actually very good, because there was many times more disinformation on facebook than there is now, which... is about the fact that we have to fight for each individual case, it is true, i have repeatedly participated in these battles, and my observation is that facebook, facebook has such a certain policy that this platform should become less and less political, that is, they try to do everything so that people share some such pleasant moments, cats, dogs, food, that's it... they post less and less political content, which in in our case, of course, it is absolutely impossible, it is impossible to implement, because we live in a war, and we are interested in nothing but war. madam love, how competently the russians conduct all these information or disinformation campaigns. we now know that there was a huge campaign to discredit ours

president, and to highlight as much as possible any possible conflicts, disagreements, for example, between zeles. and what was useful before was a long campaign, on the other hand, perun's information campaign, which they are launching, even this same interview with carlson, carlson, who recorded an interview with putin, and similar other things that are published in the western media, to what extent do they do it correctly and accordingly preschool for us and for the western world? in fact, the russians are the russian disinformation machine and all the people who work there, and there are a lot of them, and that's it insane human and financial resources, this machine is very adaptive, meaning it is constantly changing, the only thing that remains constant is that they use ours. internal vulnerabilities, that which causes discussion , indignation within society, becomes an opportunity to intervene and polarize us,

divide us, switch our attention to internal problems, that's why all these underlines, all these remarks about the conflict within the military-political leadership, from here. here are these attempts to separate us from the west, all these, this whole campaign that ukraine - this is just cannon fodder for our partners and so on, that's why i would say that they work quite skillfully with this, they have very clear, as far as we know, and very clear kpis, that is, those indicators which they want to achieve, to achieve in ukraine, and the same in other countries, yes, we know that now they are very much targeting france and germany in order to ... sew support for ukraine, they are spreading a lot of anti-ukrainian narratives, they create fake pages of institutions, for example,

ministries, where information is posted on like, france has decided to allocate even more money, or to exempt ukrainians living in france from taxes, i.e. everything that causes anti-ukrainian sentiment. that is, they create clone pages of real existing institutions and post information that, in their opinion, should outrage the average french or german, they also spread a lot of information, misinformation through advertising, in particular on facebook, and this is directly a big problem, because it is a political content that is both very much and can be paid for, create ads, facebook obviously wants to make money. and facebook, well, sometimes physically does not have time to track all these disinformation pages. literally the last minute, ms. lyubov, tell me, please, we

see not only the transformation of bot farms and tasks in the russian information war, but we also see the transformation of platforms, that is , social networks, and here the question always arises, what to do with all this, telegram seems to have a russian creator, but he fled to america and says no-no-no, i'm fine, viber. like a western system, but the servers are in moscow, tiktok seems to be chinese, but we know that communist comrades also work with information in a rather specific way, we see how, for example, t-tok with completely teenage stupid content suddenly turned into a platform for information warfare and various political channels, what to do with all this, we cannot ban various social networks within ukraine, which... we need to look for another key, to look for ways of regulation and cooperation, if these platforms are honest and they want to work transparently, then they will have no

reason not to cooperate, if these platforms are controlled by our enemy, then obviously it is better for us to limit our own society altogether and not allow these platforms to be present in ukraine, that is, it is... constant adaptation to new conditions, you know, when the nazis killed 6 million jews, then also there was no such thing as genocide, so then it just appeared, it was not clear how to condemn people for such mass murders, the same must be done here, because new challenges, we must constantly adapt to our systems and look for new answers, all of course it will not be possible to ban. and it's wrong, and we are a democratic country, we can't do that , but we need to find ways of regulation, ms. lyubov, thank you for the conversation, lyubov tsybulska, an expert in strategic communications,

at one time in the ministry was responsible for exactly these areas, well, what are we doing a little pause, we will come back later, we have many more questions to discuss, so please stay with us, do you want to increase your yield? to your plot and collect several in one season. do you want to protect plants from pests and bad weather? parnyk, a smart owner, will help you, unpack the tv. a greenhouse is a smart host, it maintains heat, accelerates the growth of fruits, and most importantly, it allows you to start the gardening season as early as possible and extend it. order right now, from just uah 399, also with the possibility of free delivery. all details from consultants. the greenhouse is a smart owner, it can withstand frosts down to -5. and also protects against direct sunlight. it will allow you to accelerate the growth of plants and get a harvest earlier. the greenhouse will protect against strong gusts of wind, hail and frost, as

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events in ukraine at the border. there will be some katsaps in kyiv and beyond, what kind of world does norman dream of, can we imagine it? all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. the espresso channel and the ukrainian pen present the project with their own names myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social debates. what news will be. to analyze the guests of the project this week, and actually who will be the guest of the studio, we will find out already this sunday. undoubtedly, the topics will be relevant, the guests - special. proper names with myroslava barchuk. sunday: 17:10 at espresso. 10 years of war, the war for freedom, from the revolution of dignity to today's battles. if something happens in winter, if i don't happen, then i know that i died for the truth. years

wars, wars for our existence, this is the path that changed us. in the conditions of occupied territories, de-occupied territories, we have losses of the order of potential 7 million hectares of land, which have not been cultivated for 2 years. 10 years of war, war for the future, what price do we pay for it? 200 of our citizens were taken to russia, depopulation is not inevitable. intellectuals, specialists, patriots about threats. and our future in a special project for the 10th anniversary of the beginning of russia's armed aggression against ukraine 10 years of the war for independence from 18 february on espresso. on these days, we remember and honor the memory of those who were beaten and shot on the maidan, we honor the memory of these people and commemorate the anniversaries of these events.

so. the 10th anniversary of russia's first war against ukraine and the second anniversary, the second anniversary, i would say, of the full-scale invasion just a few days ago, to remember all this, how it all began and to tell the stories of the heroic ukrainian men and women, thanks to whom our state survived, our editorial office, the editorial staff of the tv channel prepared a special project for 10 years war for independence, and in a moment about... a plot about one of the heroes of the heavenly hundred ihor serdyuk, a hero of ukrainian flag-bearers from the self-defense of the maidan. on february 18 , 2014, 10 years ago, his life was cut short by a sniper's shot during a confrontation in krypusnogo, in krypusnogo lane in the government quarter. and our colleague iryna skrypachova met with the hero's daughter.