the cockles of this repino , what is now called, yes, he called it chuguyeva mountain, it is symbolic, it is a territory that belonged to finland, and then passed to russia, yes, probably, to be honest, well, judging from yes, it was before the war, when finland lost certain territories, but yes, that is, rypin chose to live in a state that had no relation to... in fact, he was not obliged to the soviet union, he although he was starving, cold, he had problems with his children, he had, well, he really lived a difficult life, but he chose to live this life, it is obvious that he was promised by karney chukovsky and others, perhaps, well, i am vernytsky, i will not blame him in this sense, of course, that he will live in luxury, well, in the sense that definitely not cold, not hungry, one of ripen's last self-portraits in a hat, that is , he obviously worked in uh... conditions where

the temperature was several degrees, that is, and he, and this is an old, old man in his 80s, his fingers were his right hands are already twisted, he could no longer work, he worked with his left by hand, and he worked on a painting of a hopak, not for sale, of course, it was a will, but a man with a hammer, which for me is like a ripen, because of his love, because of his admiration for ukrainianness, for ukrainian culture, this is pomonenko, i when i look at him, i see exactly the same devotion, love just for my own, so please tell me about pemonenko, what he was for the empire, he was, they perceived him as a great artist, or his, or he's just such a funny story teller, he was great an artist, his works were exhibited at international exhibitions, one of his... one of his

works was bought by the louvre, as you know, the history of this work is unknown, it seems, well, it is definitely not hanging in the louvre, i went around it and did not see it, and in general, well, it is possible that it is somewhere in the funds, but andriy shkil investigated this issue, but less with what is worth saying about pemenenko, of course, he is a world-class artist, certainly, he is an artist who combined realism in his work, impressionist motifs and at the same time gravitated towards symbolism in individual works, i.e. this... an artist who was an absolutely brilliant colorist, he grasped ethnographic motifs absolutely clearly, he was popular, well, it is worth knowing about pemnenka that he was taken by the artist orlovsky, and orlovsky, accordingly, is one of the luminaries of landscape painting of the entire russian empire, of course a ukrainian , of course he moved to kyiv and lived in excellent relations with his son-in-law for a long time, well this... in some sense it was a generally

ideal situation, because then orlovsky wrote a bunch of works of connected with ukraine, while maintaining the status of one of the leading landscape painters of the entire russian empire, it seems that his works were worth more than the works of shishkin, well , i may not assert here, for sure, but he was absolutely the same artist of the same level, just in the soviet in the union , they talked less about him, because shishken, but simply pemonenko, but they in russians simply called him russian, russian, russian artist until the end, even now they write that, well, russian-ukrainian, that ’s what the russian wikipedia writes, but somehow way interesting, it seems to me that they perceived him as a teller of funny stories about the natives, but he somehow moved to these candy wrappers, to these vodka stickers, a stumbling block, and somehow he got into such and such a commercial culture, very interesting question on... actually, because

it shows how much of a folk artist he was, the fact that he got into commercial culture, shows that how much the themes that he raised, how much the images that he developed were, well, you can easy to say grasped, how many folk paintings based on his motifs are written, it is not easy to count, that is , it is one thing when a painting stumbles home, another thing, when during the 19th, end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century , a huge number of artisans... wrote themes from pemonenko, bringing all his works closer to this, by the way, pimonenko was not the first in this sense, there was actually kostyantyn trutovsky, who wrote very similar things, very similar motives, you are the same easter carols, the same moments well, that is, he was also an artist who allegedly showed the ethnographic side of the life of the ukrainian people, but what did this mean in essence, just like tropinin before him, how many works did he have? on

the ukrainian subject, the serfs as well as shevchenko, well , i am already silent about shevchenko himself, about sashenko, about shtenenberg, about the shevchenko circle, about g, who wrote about ukrainians, but even now we are talking specifically about these. ethnographic moments, for example, about kramsky, whose painting of a mermaid by gogol is also ukrainians in ukrainian embroidered dresses, it showed the uniqueness of the ukrainian people, it showed that it is impossible to lump the supposedly population of the russian empire under one roof without recognizing these clear national differences, and this was already a dangerous territory, well, that is to say, it must be understood, it was possible to ban the ukrainian language it was possible to forbid there to impose restrictions on the theater, many things could be done, but how do you forbid an artist to paint a still life, how can you forbid an artist to paint a man in an embroidered dress, but look how the empire used it, how the empire used gogol's presentation,

as it is about the ukrainians, as this tribe of singing and dancing people, this is pushkin's, in pushkin's interpretation it was, and... yes, but it is such a gogol's, yes, a gogol's image, from his presentation he said about gogol, yes, and here, and here, this same stumbler, it is actually, it is actually what, it is this picture home that you are talking about, there is a woman waiting drunk, a man walks, a drunk stumbles, and a woman him with a horn or with a stick like this, with a stick, and she hides this stick in the back like this, and from this they made this so cute, cute. barn, where exactly, and here it seems to me that it is actually in this place and this culture was allowed, look, we can treat it differently, i agree that there can be such an interpretation, of course, but this the interpretation of us is a 21st century person who is allowed to do anything, we can

package it in any way we want, we can, i don't know, just in any range within reason show our patriotism, i'm talking about what the empire took out of it, i don't i say that the artists are to blame. narrative, that is, it is banal what later art critics, literary critics, filmmakers, everyone who , let's say, worked on the narrative of the empire in order to interpret all these moments in their own way, this does not mean that we put such a meaning in them, it does not mean at all , i would say it differently, that is , it was in this context that we mentioned kramskyi, and i focused more on ripenni, let's remember kramskyi, because he is also, he is a very interesting and very revealing artist in this context, why, that's why what... what happened so interestingly, that kramskyi was supposedly born on the territory of even modern russia, but it was the city of ostrogodsk, in the city of ostrogodsk and in the ostrogod district, voronezh region, that's right, 90% of ukrainians lived, it was

an ancient cossack city, i'll say more, kramskyi was born in a village, or it was. some kind of village of the new hundred, aha, well, what is it , well, excuse me, well, to say after that that he is a russian artist, he admitted himself that he has ukrainian origins, he is ripen, i apologize, now you can bake, he wrote to ripen in a letter, after ripen started writing french cocottes, you're on your own with khakhlyat blood, you write russians, you write french coquettes instead of doing national art, well , that is how he wrote to him, it is obvious that it would be an insult if velikoros wrote to him like that. you understand, it is obvious that these fellow tribesmen are stabbing each other in this way, absolutely clearly, because they were friends, they, well, they did not quarrel after this address, they were also friends, and it is obvious that what is kramsky's contribution to the deconstruction of this

kremsky was, he raised, the entire history of the russian empire a rebellion in the academy of arts against the depiction of an academic, well, purely academic interpretation of painting. they asked the students to write a poem in valhalla, he said, i don’t want to write all these set things and staged moments in order to show that he led this were, yes, he led it, it was the kremsky leader, and this proves once again , that it was the ukrainians who were the triggers that organized all these riots, all this resistance that was there, all these moments, that is , he, but even more interestingly, who founded the empire? sorry academy, who founded the st. petersburg academy, who were the most influential people? well , one of the most influential first people was anton losenko or antin losenko. you obviously understand that this is hardly a russian, judging by the surname, he is this amazing

story, because in ukraine there was a singing, well , a whole organization for the selection of talented children, who were then brought to st. petersburg, well, young children... . with wonderful voices, trained at first, it seems that there was this school in glukhiv, and then purposefully sent to st. petersburg and they are there respectively sang, question, they automatically became russian in st. petersburg, and... they lived in a ukrainian environment of the same singers as them, the same teachers as them, well and so on and so on, that is, obviously, well, then he broke down the voice of anton losenko, he became an artist, he was sent to europe to study, and he is the author of the first ukrainian historical painting, which russians call the first russian historical painting, volodymyr irognida, well, accordingly , a ukrainian wrote on a ukrainian theme that took place in kyiv, and he became one of the first directors of the academy of arts, he wrote. works studied there , that is, one of the founders of the academy of arts, levitsky, borovykovsky, martos and all other

people who made a fundamental contribution to the development of the academy of arts and to the development of the genres of classicism, sentimentalism, and so on, were ethnic ukrainians, with ukrainian, well, absolutely background, and moreover, for example, the same borovykovsky, he lived in ukraine for a very long time, accordingly, only then moved to moscow and there again communicating in ukrainian obviously among'. levitskyi painted the st. andrew's church together with his father and other artists, once again distinguished himself as a super cool artist , they took away the court, how can you refuse money, fame, being the fame of the main artist of the empire, opportunities to do what you want, go down in history , after all, he would live conditionally in his myrhorod, conditionally speaking, well , you understand the difference between writing centurions or writing a cossack foreman and writing emperors and empresses. claim that they are they automatically became russian artists, carrying the ukrainian baroque

tradition, being brought up in a ukrainian, well, in a ukrainian artistic environment, their teachers were obviously in ukrainian culture, well, that is, these are obvious things, borovykovsky's first paintings are baroque, levitskyi, st. andrew's church , this is obviously also the influence of baroque and rocaco of these styles, that is, well, that is, it is part of ukrainian culture, after a person moves to another country, to another, even in... in the weight of even one state, this russian of the empire, or does it automatically become a representative of another culture, i think it is ridiculous to even think in this direction, whether he became a frenchman, picasso became a frenchman, perhaps, whether they remained, it must be said that at that time he moved to st. petersburg, he did not meant the same thing as the move of our artists to moscow and leningrad already in soviet times, or now, even more so, then the situation with opportunities was completely different. and with universities, academies and so on. about two students of pomonenko, i want

to ask about burlyuk and about malevich. malevich - this is a colossal topic, and we will talk about malevich separately in a week with tatiana filevska, because malevich is 145 years old, here is david burlyuk, a great example, i really like the story with burlyuk, because he is a person with absolute... also a ukrainian, cossack identity, he mentioned, accordingly, he absolutely never gave up on this, he was a real cultural leader of his time, he is a person who launched the futurist movement in the empire, but even before that, long before that, he was an impressionist, and he actually worked with more one artist from the kherson province, from teraspol, mykhailo larionov, and another, who is appropriated by the russians, although i consider him to be absolutely ukrainian. culture because of, well, even because of the fight with burlyuk, it was in the kherson

province, they had a whole community of people who were interested in archaic culture, interested in primitives, and primitives were the folk culture that surrounded them, it was the ukrainian folk culture culture, and they know that not only were they interested in primitives, they also took them on weapons, and burliuk is one of the first brave artists in the world, who even in the 1900s, before 1910. even, he imitated folk painting, well, imitated, he was inspired by folk painting and even made certain collages, he has some interesting paintings, there are ukrainians , for example, or cossack mamai, these are paintings that can be viewed either horizontally and vertically, let’s say, that is, they again play with national icons, ukrainians are ukrainian, they have no relation to russian culture, they have nothing to do with little, this must be clearly understood. and burlyuk , respectively, yes, he had a certain period in

the territory of modern russia, say, in those capitals, but i repeat once again, these were centers, there was a very powerful ukrainian community, it is ridiculous, for example, to claim that ripen has no relation to there is no ukraine , if only from the banal fact that he went to, first of all, he loved shevchenko very much, he knew his work very well, haydamak inspired him to sanctify knives, ripen painted a picture, haydamak is sanctified by knives, this is very little. a known fact, but it is a fact, and in fact, it was the same during the time of the futurists, the futurists went to ripin, among other things, burlyuk, they were twisted, how twisted they were. twisted is actually also of ukrainian origin, my god, mayakovsky is of ukrainian origin, that is, he has it, and it is obvious that mayakovsky was a famous advocate of the ukrainian issue, you already know these works of his, where he defends this language, grand and simple, you hear, the trumpets played, time payback has come, it's great, it seems to me that it

emphasizes, it's such an ironic thing that shows liveliness, that is, mayakovsky was pet. life, but he, like many ukrainians, was oppressed and destroyed by the metropolis, where , unfortunately, they wandered without a trace, but we, you and i, just have to be aware of this and not do such stupid things in the future and that our children were not allowed, and two more, two more artists, aivazovsky, whom we mentioned armenian and kuindzhi, the archive of kuindzhi, and the museum of which, by the way, was completely... destroyed in mariupol, this is another great metaphor of what actually russians they do even with the culture they recognize theirs, because they recognize the archipakuinji as their own, and here i read the liberal russian media, for them it is especially painful that the kuinji is greek, and how can it be, what is this, that this

is done in the world, ugh, kuinje is a greek, but he is russian, this is a russian artist, but he is greek, that's great. the logic is simple, i admire it , to what extent, how correct it is to consider kuindzhi, what, what speaks in favor of the fact that kuindzhi is a ukrainian artist, literally everything, literally everything, and nothing speaks in favor of the fact that kuindzhi is a russian artist, let me explain from the beginning, so that you understand the sequence of this logic, firstly, kuindzhi was born in mariupol, mariupol, as you know, was largely inhabited by greeks, who is it, where did the greeks come from in the territory? mariupol, suvorov expelled them from crimea, in fact it was a kind of genocidal operation, when the orthodox, all those who were not crimean tatars and so on, obviously forcibly, well, who would specifically go to live in a new territory, if there for centuries lived on the territory of the crimea, that is, it is already obvious that he had a memory like his was genocidal by the empire, as his ancestors were genocidal

by the empire and so on, that is, obviously yes, he was an ethnic greek, but again, was he... was he connected in any way with greece, with the country of greece, no way he was connected with her, that is, it can be said that he was a ukrainian, with the same rights as ukrainians, jews who lived on the territory of ukraine for centuries, armenians who, by the way , also lived on the territory of ukraine for centuries, because aivazovsky - that too, he didn't come to crimea from armenia, he came from galicia crimea has arrived, yes, but for example, if burlyuk kept saying and emphasizing that i am from ukrainian cossacks, my father is from ukrainian... my father wrote poems in ukrainian and russian, my father told me about ukrainian culture there, then kuindzhi did not say that he is ukrainian, he did not identify himself, so i believe that talking about the fact that he is ukrainian here, precisely with the emphasis on the fact that he is ukrainian, is perhaps a somewhat incorrect formulation of the question,

i absolutely admit , that he is greek, really, well so, let's say, a crimean greek, so resettled in mariupol, that is, it 's kind of... you just have to understand that a sociologist, for example, does not think that all people who belong to a certain nationality, a greek, for example, is a person who is of absolutely greek culture, and what is there in thessaloniki, what is there, relatively speaking, in mariupol, these are the same greeks, nothing like that, it is obvious that the greek kuindzhi was in close contact with ukrainian culture, which prevailed in that region, and it is obvious, he mainly studied, well, in in fact, he studied craft in ukraine. photo retouching, which in many ways built him, let's say, as an artist, as an excellent draftsman, and what is very important, he is always the same, i was talking about values, he always emphasized the difference of ukrainians, he never called ukrainians, ukrainians russians, you see, he didn't think they were russian people,

no, he wrote, he has a very small number of works where the main people appear. and he has these works dedicated to ukrainians, he has a ukrainian woman at sunset, there is a work that is attributed as a portrait of a ukrainian man in a straw hat, and so yes, that is, he emphasized that these are ukrainians, not just a russian woman there, as in the gogula they criticize so that it is a textbook thing, that he is describing some men there, he emphasizes, that these russian men were standing, so this is a quote that often happens, because he is... a ukrainian and he obviously perceived these men as russian, other men, but there was a similar story in kuindzh, that is, he preferred to depict ukrainian nature, that is left-handed his best works, ukrainian people, this a small number of works, but for some reason it happened that they were ukrainians, among his students there was a huge number of ukrainians, outstanding artists, kryzhitskyi, stolytsia, and

a great, great, great number of others, that is , he also bequeathed, while living in st. petersburg, in moscow there or in others in other cities, living even in the crimea, he still, let's say, followed this path, and therefore an obvious thing, and more. the important thing is that he was also in, well, that is, he was in the environment of travelers , well, a very influential influential person and exists there are many stories about the fact that kuindzhi, as recently as mykola ge, was canceled by the upper world of st. petersburg, and so on, he did not show himself to anyone in principle for many years. work except for the closest people there, students and so on, that is, he canceled all of this for the entire community, he was a rich man, he invested money very successfully, and he bought

himself a huge plot of land in the crimea, he lived very well there, traveled from time to time of course to teach, because he had to pass on his knowledge, you know, well, there won't be a person who is truly a genius and realizes this wants to pass on his knowledge, to refuse it, because you are offered to do it in russia, and not, for example, in ukraine, where there is no... he has such an opportunity, we have literally four minutes left, and i want us to make a certain conclusion on malevich , the way we bring lost, stolen artists back to culture, yes, this is very clearly visible in malevich, malevich, who was born in kyiv in a polish family, but who confessed himself to ukrainians, even under torture, this is how he confessed, he ... a ukrainian said about himself, a man who wrote ukrainian peasants: our colors, our fields, the famine, so

all this, we remember perfectly, is buried, he has a colossally tragic story of how he was buried near moscow in the village of ramashkava, he wanted to be buried in a certain way, we don't have time to talk about it, but the fact that... the entrance to the parking lot is now built on his grave, and that's actually all the cynicism, that is, he lies there under a layer of concrete, it's for a person who wanted to colony on his grave there was a telescope, and you could see jupiter, and all man lives under the parking lot, very steamy, very much, but here is my question, regarding malevich, it concerns how you think we should return... we could not even rename boryspil malevich airport, yes, and that would be a colossal thing, so in return, how are we

all returning this name together, well, frankly speaking, i believe that if russia had not unleashed this full-scale war, perhaps still a huge number of ukrainians who, what were the norms, and what a difference, would not would think about these pi'. of postcolonial studies, which in the academic community has been going on for decades, it wasn't yesterday, the question was raised that malevich is ours, and it has been really relevant for a long time and everyone understood it perfectly, you just know, it was, well, how are we, how are we going to fight with russia, what do you , we will name boryspil after malevich, and putin will say that it is not good, well, it was not because of that, it is because of the fact that there are people who made decisions, that they made decisions in this context, understanding that it could hurt someone offend you understand, but now no one does wants, does not want to offend anyone, now we can finally talk and do, my god, i would have liked to do it for a long time, it's just that the authorities have finally matured to the point that if we are at war with

someone, then we have no right to give them our culture, correct, that is, how can we, what is our identity based on , if malevich called himself a ukrainian, how can we somehow not give him credit at the state level, i believe that this must still happen, i believe that everyone who sabotaged such changes, they... have to suffer at least reputational losses, of course sikorsky has much less reason to be a part of ukrainian heritage and ukrainian culture than malevich, and obviously sikorsky, despite all the respect for his technical abilities and everything else, had specific political views, so let 's be honest if there is a renaming of this airport again to the malevich airport, everyone only supports it. thank you, it was a conversation about stolen. culture and how we will eventually bring it back. thank you, bohdan oleg horobchuk, sociologist of culture, was a guest of the own names program. see you in a week.

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