khrystyna and i discussed this all the time before the broadcast, where general pavel found the shells, well, he did not find them in europe, i will say this, he found them among those countries that for a long time helped us with humanitarian , non-lethal weapons, that is where he found them, and we will have hope that these ammunition will be sent to us very quickly, because we need them, we need them as much as possible. i will say even so, if we had a proportional distribution of ammunition for the artillery, full, and not a complete absence of them, well , let’s for the battery, when the battery has the opportunity for an artillery battery to fire 20-30 shots per day is nothing, it is nothing at all, it can be said that we are fighting without artillery, and a lot depends on it, i will not say so, if we continued

the supply of proportional supply of artillery ammunition, then we now we did not talk about the fact that the defense forces of ukraine would be forced to leave avdiivka, avdiivka would continue to be kept in defense and it is sufficiently effective. the russians would not arrange their dances with tambourines now, precisely, well, celebrating, relatively speaking, i cannot call this a victory, but it is avdiivka's fascination. and tell me, mr. oleksandr, after all, avdiyivka is primarily a political decision for putin, or does it pave the way for the further seizure of populated areas in donetsk region? any settlement, any city, village, they open some more opportunities for further advancement and capture of new territories, but here the question is different: avdiivka is not that important. as some entrance gate

in one direction or another, which would allow us to capture much larger territories, no, it just closing in, let's say, on our defense lines, and what they started on october 10 continues, the meat grinder in the field is actually along the lines, this is not the same option as with the cities. sions or something else, so this is primarily political, it was a political whim, and they will now use it as propaganda to the maximum, i do not even rule out that instead of taking a rational step, take an operational pause, ah, and to restore the potential, to hold so -called elections, so that something does not happen not according to plan they can

start another wave of offensive actions on this corrugation, for example, during the yar period or in the area of ​​the zaporizhzhia region in the area of ​​non-recruitment work, in order to return control over the territories that we liberated in the summer of 2023, but that is and there is a risk that everything may not go according to plan, and it is already starting to go. as planned, yesterday they tried to conduct reconnaissance by combat in the verbovoy area, this reconnaissance by combat ended in the complete destruction of the column, and this is what we call not as planned, on october 10 in the first wave of their attack on avdiyivka should have been successful, and the first echelon should have reached the main points along the inter -steppe taberdichi tano. they

didn't even do it, and it already didn't go according to plan, if putin gets it before the elections, and especially at the end of february, before the speech, before the federal assembly, well, to put it mildly, he will have a kind of slap in the face, mr. oleksandr, in the end , what's next, at least options for the development of events, very briefly, well , we understand that war is a story when you can play in... sides, and even though the russians are liberating by liberating avdiivka, certain resources for pressure in another direction, we are also liberating, and in fact a large number, a large group of us were able to leave avdiivka, although today there was an alarming report that something went wrong in the last stages, perhaps not according to plan, and part our military was captured, options for what to do next, defense. total defense and

maximum pressure on our partners so that we are provided with everything in this defense. now it is important for us to keep this kind of tactics, and it will continue. certain time, i think that the first half of the year, it will be only defense in almost all our main directions, where we are, along the entire line of hostilities, along all the main bridgeheads, with the exception, well, i do not exclude one thing, this is the left-bank kherson region, there may be some other tactical-level action, but mostly it will be self-defense, that is, it is about what the general says. who say that, in fact, the ukrainian army should now move to such a planned strategic defense, right now . thank you, mr. oleksandr, oleksandr kovalenko, a military-political spectator of the information resistance group, was on our air, we

will now take a break for a few minutes, but stay with us, we will have a lot of interesting conversations.

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is important. knowledge about the ox saves lives. we continue our saturday political club, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov, and join our conversation with valery chaly, diplomat, ambassador of ukraine to the united states from 2015 to 2019. congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. congratulations, mr. valery. so, the president's speech at the munich conference, what do you think are the main signals to our allies? you know, to be honest, i wasn't paying more attention to the performance. to president zelenskyi, to all the speeches of our partners, because in principle what the president will say is obvious, and we support it, it is necessary to get more shells, more rap, more anti-aircraft defense, and actually, it is obvious that these

signals did not sound once, well , besides, i really saw ... at the press conference after the meeting with the vice president of the united states, kamela harris, it was there that president zelenskyi spoke about the fact that we understand that the usa has its own internal issues, but nevertheless, we believe that there is no alternative, and we are counting in support of the united states, and here i would like to say that i just saw an alternative, and i emphasize that the words of the minister of defense boris... this is the minister of defense of germany that the usa should not be counted on, because regardless of the results of the campaign, who would was not in the usa, the focus of attention will shift from europe to the indo-pacific, that is, the region to the indo-pacific to the near east, i

absolutely agree with him on this, because the complexity of the origin of us funds now shows that we need to cement our position now . in europe, and in this the plan has both positive signals and some, let's say, sensitive issues that are needed. it will still be decided with our european partners. mr. valery, well, when we talk about the joint speech of president zelenskyi and vice president of the united states kamala harris, she emphasized that the united states only has plan a, and it is about financing for ukraine, but the ministry of justice of the united states just today for the first time demonstrates that there really is a plan b, and it can work too. we are talking about the first 500 thousand. dollars confiscated russian funds for ukraine, for ukraine , which were transferred to estonia in order

for it to support us accordingly, and this is actually the first, if i'm not mistaken, such a precedent that says that everything is possible if you really want to, i was talking about this is repeated, there are a lot of tools in the administration of joseph biden and there were, by the way, some of which i use now. i want to say that the aid to ukraine does not stop, because there is still the supply of those allocations that were there before, that funds should be allocated and there a tick in the political plan, this is not enough, we need weapons that are needed at the front, so all these weapons have not yet arrived from previous promises, in addition, there is, for example, such a tool as eda, these are excess defense articles, these are... they are called those , which have already expired, for example,

atakams missiles can fall under this, and the price of these weapons, which are replaced by newer ones, and in fact can either be sold somewhere or destroyed, is also set, you know, not at their basic cost , therefore the ceiling of 500 million under the eda program allows the current administration without the congress, at least now, to additionally solve these issues. it is clear that the package, which will continue to be considered for one week, would be a very good and powerful signal to all allies, and most importantly to putin, but the united states has various means to support it in the future, including military and technical plan of ukraine. the only thing i will say is that money, as it turns out, is a necessary but insufficient tool, a real weapon is needed, well, for example, the united states. to take

weapons from ecuador that are still left over from the soviet era, to put more instead, it turned out that they agreed from the beginning of ecuador, now, when russia blocked them from bananas, they said, no, we will not deliver, and went bananas further equatorward to russia, so you see, here we still have to look for how to do it, and europe is talking about absolutely concrete things now, and we haven't... been like this before, i liked the statement of defense minister boris pestorius that ukraine should help ukraine and ukraine should win. and even more , you said that you should not talk about some kind of fatigue or some incomprehensible development of events. ukraine must win, and we must to think how to make maximum efforts for this. so basically, the mood has already changed, and i feel that europe has tipped over and is taking the lead. at least it seemed so to me, frankly speaking , i am not very pleased, as a person who

has worked a lot in the american direction and not only as an ambassador, that european statements, i hope, actions, well, look now more ambitious than those of the united states, that is, there in fact, there will be some pause even if we get the package, so we need to shift our focus now from... constant monitoring the daily happenings on the capitalist hills should be transferred to such capitals as oslo, such as norway, denmark, japan, south korea, pakistan, i.e. countries that have funds and weapons, and obviously france, germany, britain, poland - this is a key such, well, group of countries that can powerfully. to act in this regard. poland, it is true, we have certain problems now, but i hope

that we will also return the level of cooperation with poland, especially since the minister of legal affairs, mr. sikorsky, whom you see now on the screen, he recently held meetings in the format of the weimar triangle, and there they jointly expressed that it is necessary to strengthen european participation in helping ukraine as much as possible. and tell me, mr. valery, if we go back to the capitalist hills, how did you understand that statement for yourself? which was made just yesterday by the speaker of the house of representatives of the american congress, mike johnson, after it became known about the murder of the russian opposition leader oleksiy navalny, he said that such a crime at the time of the congress. looking for the best opportunities for assistance to ukraine, and this is said by a person who constantly emphasizes that he is not ready to put a bill on assistance to ukraine to the vote of the house of representatives, how can we understand this? well, the statement itself pleasantly surprised me, it seems logical that this statement should not be a vacation, there is a recess of the house of representatives, but a quick decision. i will tell you

that the senate met at night, even there. two senators used a filibuster, that is , delaying the vote, but nevertheless the senate voted, and even where it is not it will sound strange to us, they had a super bowl game and they usually just stop working there in the evening on such days, here no, here they did, the house of representatives somehow calmly left it all, so i don't look at the statements anymore, mike johnson could have done more... constant steps, instead of constantly consulting with donald trump, and there is a statement by donald trump that is somewhat unusual, he already once said at one of his meetings with voters that we are not against helping ukraine there, moreover , well, in his speech, he said that it was joseph biden who would give up ukraine, and i, on the contrary, defend ukraine, well, in

his rhetoric, but then he said, let 's allocate a loan to ukraine. and not direct money, well, that is already some kind of situation, you are really right, some statements, they show that this group of maga and this group of republicans, who joined it in blocking issues, have gone too far, but, unfortunately, i cannot to say right now that this already indicates that the issue will be resolved in the coming days, that will not happen, and i emphasize that there are opportunities in the current administration, er... kamala hares, the vice president says there is no plan b. well, i would say so until the battle for the plan is over. well, the president of ukraine also said that he expects the package to be accepted, but look, the same package may also undergo some serious changes, it has already undergone changes. therefore, we need to think about where

to produce shells now, where to get shells now, the president's statement. of the czech republic, the czech republic, mr. pavel, i am more hopeful, there he said that there is a possibility that the czech republic has found these opportunities, 800,000 only for 155 caliber, but only money is needed, but if there are such statements, only money is really needed there, it is necessary to concentrate as much as possible now on these moments, where to get money, well , in principle, there are partners who can help at this critical moment, it is japan, it is norway. by the way, it is still necessary there, despite the active work, let's say , acting duties or our sharje, but the ambassador is needed in norway and the military atsh is still needed in norway, so, by the way, our activists there also talked about this advocacy programs, there are things that need to be done immediately, uh, mr. valery, in

the context of the munich security conference and what has been going on for a while. two security agreements have been signed: ukraine with france, ukraine with germany, i understand that these are similar framework projects, in fact, to what we already have with great britain, and when we talked about it with you at the saturday political club, a little earlier, you noted that you do not have special hopes for such, i emphasize once again, precisely framework documents that do not require ratification in parliaments, which in many ways reduce the future dangers regarding ukraine to additional consultations and so on and so forth, and do you still think so, or after all, the fact that such documents and agreements, preliminary agreements, as you like, are becoming more and more, means that in general we are strengthening our position in relations with partners, of a key plan, in terms of diplomatic

work, this is normal work when it deepens... relations are cemented to some new level, indeed already in two years of such partnership relations, those documents that were before, they definitely outdated, and that's why now it is correct to call them security agreements, they really make it possible to somehow record the level of relations and what is actually being done and look ahead there, somehow set some guidelines, well, in fact , these documents are similar in form. on the agreements, well , they are agreements, but i confirm again, they are not as long-term as it says 10 years, because if the agreement is not ratified and... can be terminated six months before the stop at any time, any- which side, what is actually written in them, even more so, in german it is written in the agreement that everything depends on

the bundestag, the parliament, what amount of funds it will allocate, a lot of wording that is inherent, for example, in the joint statement of ukraine-usa, when president zelensky was in washington, signed a statement with president biden, but it has little meaning differs from these agreements, that is, in fact, i understand... that in the long-term, they play their role, but in the short-term, from the point of view of some, well, the creation of a security umbrella around ukraine, well, they are still nothing to us no, it's not that they don't guarantee, that word may be wrong, even the commitments that are made there, they are still the ones that are already being carried out today, they are just more structured, and if it is... already the implementation of the g7 statement and those 25 countries that will also join have joined this statement, that is , we will have these 30 documents, but

there will be no, well, honestly, no alliance agreement where a country is ready to fight together with us, and in this regard i don't have any major issues with diplomacy, this is a permanent job, but with ours the position of a common state of such a state , can we ensure the key goals in the near future, that is, there is no answer yet, because the question of joining nato is being postponed, there was a question, it seems to people's deputy oleksiy honcharenko, the possible successor of ginsek stoltenburg, that is being considered prime minister, the dutchman rutte, a direct question. washington summit, can there be an invitation? he said that, in his opinion, as with the european union, it will be gradual, again somewhat piecemeal,

chopped process, that is, unfortunately, we currently do not have an answer as to how we will protect ourselves from russia in the system of collective defense, the self-defense that we have today, it does not answer, and this i say not only to ukrainians, but i say this constantly in communication with partners, it does not correspond to the level of threats, and in fact, russia has made these threats and attacks against nato, against european countries, but only entered ukraine, from their point of view, perhaps more, and this is true, more realistic goals at the time, but i think that in europe the understanding that they can face russia much more directly is growing, and finally they will produce. weapons, more, only now the question , in fact, which i did not hear the answer to, where they will stop russia, there is already a consensus that with this regime, the russians

will not be able to talk about anything, but where to stop them on their eastern borders, as they are now they are concentrating on the eastern borders of ukraine, which is more profitable from my point of view, but in general, there are no answers to these yet, and... this conference does not give them yet, but the dynamics obvious, that is, to put it this briefly, there was a very obvious challenge to china, which was voiced by the head of the foreign policy, well, not the ministry of legal affairs, but rather the party department, in the group that deals with foreign policy onei, said that china claims control in its part of the world, i.e. this... firstly, secondly, he said that china does not consider the budapest memorandum as an obligation of china, he in relation to ukraine, he said that china undertook not

to launch a nuclear attack on ukraine, that is well in fact, as in other countries, and it sounds, you know, so in these conditions, on the one hand, it can be confirmed once again that any russian nuclear blackmail is impossible, i think, well, you can only play with... there in the information the answer has already been given, but everything else, unfortunately, the issue of collective actions has not been resolved, while there are countries that still hope that somehow it will be a pause, and after this pause there will be no further development of military actions. by the way, in europe there are much less such illusions, and i would say that this is a cardinal suf, which took place in nato countries, the european part, but by the way, mr. valery, what... from the point of view of the situation with nato with answers regarding our possible accession, this is the same concept of the gray zone that viktor orban spoke about recently, that if we want

ukraine to survive. as a state, it should be neither in nato nor in the european union, it should be a buffer between us and the west, that we were late in 2008 for its acceptance into nato? well, in principle, this is precisely the statement of prime minister orbán that will be negatively perceived by us, but still it really should be discussed, because it is very easy to answer, well, no, many of us argued that exactly such a gray buffer zone can... become such an invitation for putin to enter there, and in fact, that is how putin perceived it as a weakness, that is, precisely such a buffer zone, it provoked the actions of the russian leader at the time of the large-scale invasion, even earlier in the 14th year, that is, that is why it does not save from war. moreover, i will tell you, even, even now, to expect that the front line is simply territorially pushed back from

the borders. the european union or nato can the territory of ukraine can be saved, but there is a border, well there, mr. orbán says that there is no hungary, and such a direct threat, but then why does he abandon, well, his allies, well, he abandons them in quotation marks, but this is unfair to estonia, which has a border with suhaldol, latvia, or, for example, even the same poland that has kaliningrad. has a border with russia, and due to the suval crossing and such a rather unstable belarus , a blow may also be struck, i am not talking about the fact that you can talk as much as you want about the threats that the report in the reports of the munich conference are now reduced in many countries regarding russia, well, it is thanks to our heroic actions of our armed forces of ukraine, the defense forces, but they do not understand one thing, that the first missile is from the north.

the production launched by the russians will fly it to them in tons, and everything, and all these priorities of theirs, climate change or weather changes will end, or even there terrorist threats, they will rethink it in a moment, and people who are engaged in this business professionally, intelligence , the ministry of defense, this is already clearly understood, because the under-flying the time of the missiles and their capabilities, we see from what distance they are launched over the territory of ukraine, so i... i agree with you, so far it looks like this is thinking in the concept, uh, if so, discard all statements so beautiful, everything is even, well, at least , as they say, until the end of the war, but in fact we remain in this buffer zone, and it is at least unfair, and at the most i think it is threatening, because uh, many people thought before that this can save, now they

will think so less and less and... the next ones russia's actions, we know, russia, as a rule, acts completely illogically, senselessly, and they will show it to them, i think that the rethinking will pass very quickly, that ukraine should be inside the alliance and europe, and the ukrainian border is precisely eastern, it is absolutely natural, and it can be better protected, and in principle, it will be cheaper for the taxpayers of the same european countries in the future. moreover, i will tell you, well, i have said all this, and i ask them whether they realize that a million people, motivated, ready to die for their country, for european security, they will not raise it like that in france or in germany, that is, as it happened in ukraine , this is another factor that they have not yet encountered , so everything is logical, yes, but, unfortunately, political thinking, it goes much later than those experts, intelligence. and even

the ministry of defense, which sees these threats much better. thank you, mr. valery. valery chaly, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, continues an important international discussion with serhiy vovko, director of the center for transport strategies. congratulations, mr. serhiy. good evening. well, there is a complete blockade of the border of poland and ukraine from february 20. despite the change of government, despite optimistic statements about the stabilization of the situation, everything continues and even worsens. well, if this happens, i still hope that there will be a healthy silence, it will first of all be a shot in the foot, not even so much ukrainian, but european business, for the simple reason that imports from europe to ukraine are twice as much bigger, about twice as much as what we export to europe, so in first of all, these will be significant problems for european and polish businessmen, this is

the number one issue. question number two is this