i say goodbye to you, calm , have a peaceful evening and a peaceful night, see you, good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy ordenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health, over the next two for hours we talk about... the war, about ukraine, about the world and about our victory. today in the program. payment for aggression and murder. the us has introduced more than 500 new sanctions against russia for the war in ukraine and the death of navalny. the european union also announced its package of sanctions. new missiles and modernized nuclear weapons. the kremlin threatens the west with nuclear war, and ukraine with the capture of kyiv and. odessa, how far can putin go?

transnistrian separatists can ask russia. moldova is worried about the preparation of an appeal to putin from the self-proclaimed republic. about this and other things. over the course of the next hour, we will speak with valery chaly, a diplomat and former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america. in the second part, we will have a journalism club: maryna danylyuk yarmalayeva, maria gurska and yanina. kolova however, before that to start our big conversation, i suggest you watch a video of how hymars brings order in the kherson region, near the settlement of mykhailivka. fighters of the air reconnaissance unit adjusted their fire on the russian strela-10 air defense system and the 9a-331 combat vehicle of the tor m1 complex. let's see.

and just now there was a message that another russian a50 plane was shot down over the sea of ​​azov, just a month ago, remember, our air force shot down a similar plane, this is a flying radar plane, you see how a russian plane is on fire in the krasnodar territory, it fell just on the other side of the sea of ​​azov, and such a gift. the main intelligence department of the ministry of defense and the defense forces were handed over to the russian occupiers. friends, in the course of our program, we are conducting a poll and we are asking you today whether zelensky should run for the presidency of ukraine again, yes, no, please vote on youtube, everything is quite simple there, either yes or no, your answer option, or your comment, please leave it below video if you are sitting in front of the tv watching us live. on tv,

pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if you think that zelensky should run again for the president of ukraine 0800-211381, no 0800-211382, all calls to these numbers are free, call and we are in touch should be valery chaly, diplomat, ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19, chairman of the board. mr. valery, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. so, mr. valery, today the united states of america announced the introduction of more than 500 sanctions, well 500 points, i mean, sanctions against the russian federation and new export restrictions against almost 100 organizations on the eve of the second anniversary of russia's large-scale invasion of ukraine and after the death of alexey. well, the sanctions

are aimed at making putin pay an even greater price for his aggression abroad and for repression inside the country, according to the statement of the president of the united states of america, joseph biden, which was made public. the white house, uh, what in your opinion, mr. valery, the sanctions could be too painful for russia, and why the united states of america has not yet introduced too painful sanctions against the russians. if we talk about the introduction of sanctions, this is one of the elements of pressure on the economy of the aggressor's country, and it is connected... with the fact that, this is what we hear about in stages, some separate ones, with the fact that in general it is a violation of the statute, and of the second article of the un charter, the third, in essence, entails an embargo, that is, a complete ban on trade, due to the fact that russia, which does not have any rights

to be in the un now, because we know that she took over the place after the soviet union, she is everything... and therefore there is no embargo. and now we see such constant introductions of some packages dedicated to something. first, the positive that it exists, and still sanctions play their role. the second point is that the sanctions policy has not really changed. you see, they are introduced in batches, predicting some kind of response. in fact, it is precisely the limitation of sanctions to some subsequent violations, well, given. case there they tied it really part of the sanctions in connection with the murder of a political opponent in russia, navalny, by the way, if anyone didn't mind, but this is a serious signal to the whole world, which should already lead to the recognition in the usa, at least russia,

of the country sponsoring terrorism, and in general- well, it's about time, if earlier they said no, it will create problems, i think that... such an action would be much more significant than all these sanctions, why? because sanctions have been introduced, many of them are avoided, we can see this from what comes to us, and on unfortunately, there are fresh deliveries of chips , fresh parts, including american ones, so the most important, more important task now is to close the loopholes in those countries that allow the russians to circumvent sanctions, this is, firstly, secondly, after all, such countries as well, in particular india, for example, which receives russian petroleum products, then processes and sells in the usa in the form of already processed oil, and sells oil, petroleum products, well, such things must somehow be closed, because i think that everyone perfectly understands that it is necessary

to close these holes, well, there are still such in the usa certain exceptions that they do not want to introduce, because it hits not only the aggressor, but also hits very hard. in some sensitive sectors they have, well, for example, they still get it and uranus from there, and a lot of things, so i would say that the issue here is not a change of approach, it is necessary not to add timing, or some really subsequent violations, it is necessary conduct a pre-emptive policy of maximum blocking, where you have already prepared, there really is no, well, there are economic losses, we understand that, but we, ukrainians, ukraine invest more in countering this. in europe, i.e. people's lives, so all these explanations must be left in the past, that we are losing economically there, we must be there where we are ready, without really such serious losses , we must press as much as possible there and concentrated in time, therefore we must change

approaches, to change before the introduction of time, volumes, introduction of sanctions, well , it is already overdue for nuclear energy, russia is developing rosat... it just feels very easy for itself in all directions, that is, it is overdue for the same lng over there to europe, well, there are many such things that have already they were supposed to be introduced yesterday, but unfortunately, unfortunately, they are well, there are problems here, but all the same , we have to say that, nevertheless, signals are being sent to moscow in such a way that there will be no deviation from such a policy, well, mr. valery, you mentioned india, which processes... . russian oil and then oil products are transported to the united states of america, it’s not a secret for the americans, i understand correctly, they clearly understand what kind of oil it is, and well, i think that they accurately count the amount of oil produced in the world and understand perfectly , who form this

market, that is, well, they deliberately buy from india's oil products, which are actually russian, i think 13 million tons of oil or something a year, if i'm not mistaken. well, you know, i, as a ukrainian, would like to change all this, well, at least the explanation is always that what does not fall under the sanctions policy is... allowed, what is not prohibited is allowed, well, that's it history, it should be absolutely the opposite, i say that such, such an attack in europe on a sovereign country and the previous decisions of the un and the un security council is an embargo, complete, without any exceptions, without the exception of countries, a world embargo, unfortunately, it was not possible to achieve this, and for this we have such a gradual line, russia, let's be honest, they are adjusting... to this, the situation there is not improving, but the adjustment is two years, after two years

of a full-scale war, already they adapted, found workarounds , took cover somewhere with their production there, and this , in the medium term, will destroy their economy, but we don't have that many years, there are three to five, we need solutions this year, and it's already starting... you know , to be really not as effective as it is concentrated in time , therefore, everyone understands everything, but look at how long, how long they have been leaving russia, not even all of them have left russian business yet, they are still there and large funds, unfortunately, are not either they left immediately, that's why there are corporations and rosa, there is gazprom, huge funds of investors from outside were invested there. well, today i can say that strategically they have decided, they are leaving russia, but this is happening over a long

period of time, we know cases of such an open nature, where trade networks or some kind of production, that is, somehow explaining their line, they continue to make money from such a war, in fact, they make money from this market from which others have left, for them it is actually a monopoly, there are some western companies that remain, and i will not say that we have... here the usa pays more attention than anything else, the usa, on the contrary, is actually the leader of the consolidation of the sanctions policy. mr. valery, on the eve of the introduction of united states of america sanctions against russia, joe biden met with the wife of the russian opposition leader oleksiy navalny yulia and his daughter dasha. this is how he commented on this meeting. this morning i had the honor of meeting my wife. and the daughter of alexei navalny. he was clearly a man of incredible courage, and it's amazing how

his wife and daughter emulate that. we will announce sanctions against those responsible for his death. and i understood that yulia intends to continue to fight, go to the end and not give up. in the west, there was quite a sharp reaction to the murder of oleksii navalny by vladimir putin, and there was a lot of it statements and assessments of what... happened in the russian federation, but we know that some of the oppositionists are in prison in russia, some are somewhere in europe, in lithuania, latvia, in particular, well, that is, outside of russia, in your opinion, is the russian opposition in exile able to change russia? of course, no, it is not possible, because we have seen it in history, it already happened when... the authoritarian regime was dictatorial, well, i will remind you, the

same period was fascist, in nazi germany, that is, at first the repressions unfolded gradually , they concerned first, well, politically, political opponents, in fact, then jews, roma, various groups of minorities, non-traditional people. and so on, and it all began with this, first concentration camps were created for such people, then it turned into a systemic policy, and in russia, in principle, there was also a period when a lot of people left, well , we can say millions, and so in in principle, even internally, the forces that were there when at least 70,000 people were gathered there on bolotny, there is no such thing anymore, and they still have them from the outside... certainty regarding the strategy , they had such a position, i see it this way, the main thing is

putin, ukraine will break him, because in this unjust aggression, well, we will later , when putin is defeated, we will return to russia, we will build a new russia it absolutely does not work in the current conditions, i am grateful to those russians for their citizenship, who are fighting. on the side of ukraine, the armed forces of ukraine, and in principle, this is the only effective option that can be said today, even to those who appear to be... captured and then take up arms, understanding what russian propaganda did to him, everything else, this is all in exile, it is necessary, because everything is the same sooner or later some kind of replacement of the russian regime will be needed, but i will say that there is less hope that the regime itself will change , more in such a situation now,

well, is there any hope for some kind of forecast, it is hypothetical, very small for today... let's say in percentages of reliability, but rather now, i think, there will be some fragmentation in russia itself, due to the ineffectiveness of the regime's actions and impossibility to withstand the challenges of society on this agreement that as long as we pay you there and you buy products, we can wage the war we want and wage propaganda, but until this model is broken, i think ... these oppositionists in exile are unlikely, they will change something, although still once i say that they are doing their part of the work, you see, how would i, for example, as a citizen of ukraine, i would like the president of the united states, who is helping ukraine, who is currently promoting the solution from the aid package, met with

the wives and husbands of our dead, well soldiers and women and... and children who died. i would very much like navalny, well , for all his role there, well, he, compared to what is happening in ukraine, this is completely, completely not the same story, maybe it is hyped, so it is individual, yes, it very hyped, he has already made his, his contribution to history, but the fact that against this background, well, somehow, it is definitely not just a tragedy that is being forgotten, but what is unfolding now in ukraine... even more murder of people is unfolding, in fact genocide , which creates, even though the international court did not recognize it, but we we see official russian statements , to destroy the ukrainians in essence, that is, to destroy the country, to destroy the ukrainians, i believe that this is much more threatening than what is currently being discussed

in the white house, these meetings, although they are necessary, because in america, you know, there's a focus on such... individual stories and we need to think about that, i would really like president joseph biden to meet with our brave women who are fighting right now, well if it's possible there in terms of the situation, i think it's possible find a solution, with our wounded, which are being treated, including by the united states, i.e. such and such, in my opinion, balance impressions are not enough now, you have already mentioned about... about the statements that indicate the intentions of the russian leadership to destroy ukraine and ukrainians, and this week there was also a statement from dmitry medvedev , the deputy head of the security council of the russian federation, who said that the next thing is that kyiv is a russian city, and they

will take it sooner or later, and odessa is a russian city, and that it is not at all clear to us what kind of state it is ukraine does not understand who he is. ukrainians if someone is there, against their policy, then they can get nuclear weapons and hit kyiv, berlin, and london, well, that is, he said a lot, and putin continued this rhetoric of medvedev in congratulating him on the so-called day defender of the fatherland, the russian dictator declared that russia has almost 100% updated its strategic nuclear. weapons, let's listen to what putin said. taking into account real combat experience, we will continue to comprehensively strengthen the armed forces, ensure their constant technical re-equipment and modernization. today the share of modern weapons and equipment in the strategic nuclear forces has already reached 95%, and

the naval component of the nuclear triad is almost 100%. joe biden once again called him a son of a bitch, there with a madman, some kind of madman, and in your opinion, mr. valery, is there any mechanism that will allow us to avoid this madness and the implementation of these crazy ideas. which do putin and medvedev have? well, if we talk about these statements again there with a nuclear club, then the first thing i will say is that what medvedev is doing is a completely different story, it is... the story of the formation parallel world and there is its own theory of management, when he, he performs a specific role in the information space, it is completely

different, well, sometimes they send some signals, but not ukrainians, so, frankly speaking, there is not much of that, well, if he was named , it seems that the official spokesman of the euro commission already said that he needs to see a psychiatrist, well, if in brussels they say that medvedeva needs to see a... psychiatrist, then unfortunately, we have nothing to discuss here either, but regarding the fact that putin says, first of all, let them speak specialists, but we have already seen this story in the 22nd year, this is the unfolding of all these threats, the first thing i will tell you, not being a great expert in nuclear weapons, i can definitely tell you, and they do not know this only these specialists, no trials. uh, nuclear warheads, none of which, as he says, there can be no question of a hundred percent re-equipment, there were no tests, uh, for, well, if i'm not mistaken, since 1996,

if i'm not mistaken in the world, so without this, without first being tested on some training ground, well, the russian one nuclear chargeless, it is not possible to talk further about the fact that there is any efficiency, if he is talking about the carrier. about missiles , there are also serious problems with them, which means that his statements, which were heard there many years ago, he, i think we already know, he bluffed in some ways, lied in some ways, but there was some truth in it everything, so underestimate the fact that russia invests resources, which, unfortunately, we talked with you, they have financial, unfortunately, this is happening, and for strategic bombers, that is, they are are doing they continue to produce, i emphasize once again, carriers, from the carriers i can see that some things are happening, especially in the preparation of a large-scale war in ukraine,

talk about the fact that they have changed something radically in the ability to threaten specifically with nuclear warheads, strategic, tactical , well, it doesn't happen, unfortunately for them and fortunately for us, that's why we don't need to take part in promoting this new stage of threats from russia. first of all, we know that culiverno took place the conversation between the chinese leader and the russian one, and china, it is not beneficial for china to deploy such, even the preparation of nuclear weapons, because china is surrounded by nuclear countries in its region, and some of them cause great. peace of china itself, so in this regard, although it may be a consolidated position, it is , firstly, and secondly, look, we were told, by those who promised security guarantees

under the budapest memorandum, they said, this, we promised from the point of view of the use of nuclear weapons, so that the use and preparation there is also such an adaptation, so i think we should now pay attention to these statements. not only the usa, britain, which in many respects are fulfilling their promises now, but also france, the nuclear power and china, because they are actually their letters back then, these letters are in the archive of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, they were not signatories, but they joined this approach , not to threaten with nuclear weapons, but in fact now you can apply this document, no matter how weak it may seem, this is the first, second, i emphasize once again, we need... to have in ukraine the explanation that there are no threats, strikes with strategic nuclear weapons on the territory of ukraine today, because it has already been discussed, and putin

will not cross these red lines, he is really a human being, well , in many ways mentally ill, but there are his own , including the technical safeguards of this story, if we talk about other options, tactically, nuclear...weapons, so far there are no tests, that's all, well, so far such empty statements, and thirdly, we need to look at other things now, which we forget because of this, firstly, we have much more threats simply specifically on the russian offensive now on our territory, secondly, they have the zaporizhzhya nuclear plant under control and in a very dangerous state, thirdly, they still have facilities in crimea that can be used as man-made disasters. this is what ukraine needs to deal with right now, and you know, this whole story with nuclear threats, we have already been through it, we

have already, in my opinion, ukrainians... you mentioned france, about what france could mention in this situation about his signature, the fact that they signed the budapest memorandum, and emmanuel macron on monday invited a number of foreign leaders to him, and there they will discuss the strengthening of cooperation at pitrumka in kyiv, we see that the bundesack called on the german government to provide... long-range weapons, without mentioning taurus, we see some talk so far about the fact that the americans are ready to provide missile judges for attacks from a longer range, that is , we understand that the whole world is beginning to realize the danger that comes from putin, especially, apparently, after , as he gave it's a boring two-hour interview with tucker carson,

and everyone realizes that... well, that he's living in some kind of medieval, or maybe even ancient , world and trying to redraw the world according to maps that were still in the 13th or 14th century. mr. valery, do you think that the west will be able to change the situation, the uncertainty in which we are now, when the congress of the united states of america has not yet made a decision regarding ukraine, when we do not yet have long-range weapons, when even the americans themselves... admit that the lack of these weapons affects the front, in particular, that concerns avdiivka, that is , has the time come when they already understand that without such weapons it is simply impossible to defeat putin? the time has come when they began to realistically consider the threat of a direct confrontation with russia at this stage, that is, it was first in intelligence and in the ministries of defense, now it is

already politically in the countries. nato declares, what we were talking about, well, in fact, first a large-scale invasion, and i think that this is the right conclusion, only you did not prepare it for a long time, the time has come when europe, in particular germany, france, well, britain realized earlier that they had to rely on their military-technical capabilities, weapons production, and where they actually lagged behind the united states for many years. and in terms of volumes and new equipment there, although there are good results in france, germany, denmark, norway, britain, sweden, but the volumes are not ready for today's period, so i'll just remind you that in fact that putin's ultimatum in the 21st year in december, which he sent through the ministry of foreign affairs affairs of russia, as a security draft of some kind of agreement was sent to nato and the united

states. they did not accept it, two countries , now finland and sweden will follow, are joining nato, but in terms of responding to this threat, they have only now woken up or are waking up, so there is one point that i am trying to explain to all partners, reminding them that they were right, or were we right, many of us, two years ago, now they think that ukraine will hold back as much as possible the russian onslaught, they will buy time additionally. further preparations will be made to deploy the same bendisfera division as much as possible, excuse me, the motorized bendisfera brigade in lithuania, they will further tighten up what is already being added through the suval crossing, they will tighten up their eastern border with even more opportunities, so i will say, putin will not wait, if in ukraine will not have what you said, concentrated now in this, well, in the coming months, the supply of those missiles, which are called

long-range missiles, actually. well, it's up to 500 km, it's actually only along the rear of what is currently operating there swarms on the front, that is, if there is not this stupid, absolutely senseless prohibition there not to respond only on the territory of ukraine, and not outside, and how will you repel even f-16 attacks in the air, whatever they will be, they will hide there just in the air space, well, it is pointless, so if this is... understanding comes and there will be concentrated aid to ukraine, then they will not have to form a new line of defense actually already on their territories, so now in fact they are one dangerous moment in this, on the one hand, they are dangerous for ukraine, on the one hand, they already agree that even during, even during the war with ukraine, if it is such a positional trench, there may be attacks on them.