we must already broadcast the fact that the fact that ukraine survived is a serious achievement, that, after all, just two years ago, forecasts were apocalyptic about ukraine that it would collapse. 90%, somewhere, maybe even more , of western experts, politicians, said that it would collapse. and this, it was very, very tangible. they don't say that now. now they are starting to talk, and maybe we will start negotiating behind ukraine's back with russia. because after all, there are a lot of resources there, a lot of money, there is a huge market, but what about us? is this ukraine? and only 10% of europeans believe in the possibility of ukraine's victory. if only 10% of europeans believe in the possibility of ukraine's victory, then there is no reason to be surprised that there is no minister of culture and information policy for six months, and the fredom tv channel speaks only russian, if we want to... add the informational

foundations of our victory in this way , then i'm sorry, it 's something, something needs to be changed in this chicken coop, because somehow the eggs are not, the wrong eggs are laid, not ostriches, but quails, sorry, so i think we have to work together formulating what victory will be for us, simply restoring territorial integrity - this is one moment, success is another. ukraine is another moment, economic recovery is the third moment, the dismantling of russia is the fourth moment, but if ukraine does not start the discussion about what to consider our victory, then this discussion will be imposed on us and imposed not only discussion, but also the result. i don't want to focus on apocalyptic predictions, that's not my role, but i'm in favor of our subjectivity during a war that...

sorry, suffered and actually paid for it with a huge amount of spilled ukrainian blood, it grew, not decreased, and this, in my opinion, is quite an obvious need, mr. yevgeny, thank you, on such a note we end our conversation today, yevhen magda was with us executive the director of the institute of world politics, well, later on our airwaves will be an interview with... pavlyuk about that, actually the commander of the ground forces of the armed forces of ukraine, about how on the first day of the invasion the ukrainian armed forces managed to shoot down seven enemy planes and put the occupiers in packs, how they foiled the plans for an easy invasion, the conversation with the lieutenant general was recorded with the radio liberty donbass reality project a few days before the appointment of oleksandr pavlyuk as the commander of the ground forces, and he was still in the status of minister of defense and about the first days of the war,

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of defense, lieutenant general, hero of ukraine. congratulations. good evening. as we record our conversation shortly before the second anniversary of the full-scale. military invasion, wanted to start with such a retrospective question: when did you, because you headed the headquarters two years ago operations of the combined forces in the east , it became clear that a full-scale war, it is not a diversion, that is, it was possible some telegram or other communication, as it was, the joining of forces, i was appointed back in july of the 21st year, well and having conducted the analysis already in the fall. there was a very high probability, we understood that there would be a full-scale war, its scale was still difficult to understand, but that it would at least capture the territory of luhansk, donetsk region, it was obvious, because we also analyzed the actions of the enemy, his

corresponding preventive measures , him reconnaissance functions that they performed in the territory along the entire contact line, along the border. well, all the signs were that we would meet the enemy and not only the tslnr, the dpr, but also from the territory of russia, so it has already begun. ever since the fall, we began to carry out certain actions in order to successfully meet and make the maximum impression on him, realizing that the ratio of forces and means was and will not be in our favor, but we still had no options, we had to persevere, therefore that all of ukraine was behind us, that's why within five months, let's get down to it... we were preparing to repulse a full-scale aggression, already in january

and february we received relevant telegrams from the main intelligence, where it was assumed that such an option was possible, and in the month of february we did, i think, as much as possible to meet the enemy , in principle, all positions were strengthened as much as possible, all possible options were calculated and lost, all reserves were placed, we conducted full-scale training twice, at least, the day before, despite the fact that there were such local trainings a lot was done, and it basically played its possible decisive role, that on the first day, when an attack was made on all the command centers, on all the control points, on all the places where there were supposed to be concentrations of our troops and warehouses, they passed into the void place. in the first days, the general staff informed that 90 battalion-tactical groups had entered the territory of ukraine. if

you remember, how many of these forces were deployed in your area of ​​responsibility? well, i won't say for sure, there were, in addition to the first and second army corps, the lpr, the dpr, and more there were units of the first tank army, the 20th tank army and the eighth combined arms army of the enemy. that is , the advantage was huge, there is information in open sources that the grouping of the first or second army corps was about 35,000, and according to your estimates, in fact, how many tens of thousands of personnel of the units that were engaged against you at that time, how many were there if we take only the groups of the first or second corps, 35 thousand, it was before the start of mobilization, they called up at least as many. who went to what i already i told you, to strengthen the front edge

in order to constrain our actions, everything that was combat-capable in them, which for eight years conducted combat operations, and was capable of active, it was the backbone of those strike groups that struck the luhansk region and in the direction between volnovakha and mariupol, we actually in... talked about the capabilities of these hulls with you when we spoke two years ago in an interview, and then you said that these hulls by themselves, they are not capable of carrying a significant threat, and i would like to ask already after two years, what turned out in practice, how they showed themselves, maybe in comparison with the russian troops, what can you say about them? i will say this, they did not live up to the trust placed in them by the russian occupying forces. even when they were reinforced directly by russian regular

units, they could not fulfill all the tasks assigned to them, but they fought it quite powerfully, and i will say that it was not easy for us, given the huge advantage and complete control of the air, you yourself understand that to hold the line of defense when you... are being beaten from all sides and expect a 360° attack, it is very difficult, well, i will say, our people did a miracle, they did a real feat, because no one expected that in such a state, with such an advantage we will be able to hold on, and many things we still hold, what was at the beginning of the war. the most dangerous was the luhansk part of our defense, because the enemy was advancing from

the south, from the north, and from the east, and those brigades were surrounded, because in reality the forces of the means to stop the onslaught from three sides there were none, but those reserves that were, we put forward along the border, luck starobskyi belovodsk. and they played their role, they stopped the pace, which allowed us to regroup the entire means and occupy the border, which we continued to receive and... what a rush, for three days, i would say so, that grouping that went first, we were so beaten by us , that they were actually already mobilized, there were a lot of mobilized people, on february 16 it was already clearly visible that there would be a war, because measures were taken

to mobilize the occupied territories, all the brigades that were on the line... a clash, people who had experience were withdrawn , strike groups were formed, and mobilized to the front line in order to restrain and restrain our actions, but we managed to stop them, because the main blows to luhansk direction and mariupol direction in the first days were repelled. i understand that the military is constantly planning for actions in case something goes wrong, but this is a collision.

therefore, we did everything to prevent us from having a corridor through which ammunition and resources would be supplied. the wounded were evacuated, and we succeeded, we could not allow the enemy to suddenly come to the line, which would have given us a maneuver, i will say, the enemy did not expect such, such an encounter, therefore the russian units that were going through the luhansk region, having encountered our reserves, which stood, they stood only a... on the main directions, but this gave them time, they were stopped, they were busy replanning their actions, bypassing our units, asking them to be surrounded, one bilod battalion was surrounded, but thanks kind actions, they managed to destroy the enemy, they destroyed four strongholds in the east and went to their main forces,

we withdrew the rest of the units and occupied a continuous line of defense. therefore, in principle, we guessed all options of the enemy's actions, we understood that there would be a direction, the first - from luhansk in the direction of happiness, the second in the direction of mariupol in order to cut off and surround our group, and basically i concentrated all the reserves in these directions, they worked because if it wasn't done. literally on the second or third day we would already be in a deep environment, further it was already difficult to make any decisions, and so we managed not only to disarm the group that was directly attacking our forces, but also to attract the forces that were in the kharkiv region and in the south of ukraine. can you

tell us which zone you were responsible for at the time of the invasion, what we see before us, what was the extent, the group's responsibility. united forces, it was luhansk, donetsk region, the length of the line of contact with the enemy was up to 400 km, but in addition there was a border along luhansk oblast, directly from the russian federation, therefore the threat was from here, from the first or second army corps, and in this direction the enemy's eighth army corps also worked. as well as from the kharkiv region, from the luhansk region, this is the first tank army that advanced in the direction of kupyansk, and the 20th army that advanced in the direction of the army that advanced in the direction of starabilsk. did you talk about the directions of the main blows, if you visualized on the map, where it was?

the directions of the headmen were the main ones the direction of the luhansk region, this is some... in the direction of luhansk along the border of happiness and trehonka, this direction is in the direction to go to sever-donetsk, luhansk and go to the rear of our troops, and the second strike was along the border , valnavakha passed, and mariupol in order to cut off and surround mariupol. and our miisks also got out, in addition to this , several additional strikes, the main strike was on popasne, there was also a strike on starabelsk, the strike was, er... in the direction of horlovka. there were svatovo, starobilsk and bilovodsk on the border we created the corresponding buffer zones, these are

strongpoints that prevented the enemy from suddenly passing through. he was stopped, began to regroup, assess the tasks, asked to try to bypass our troops, something he did not expect. to meet someone in this direction, the belovod tank battalion of the seventh brigade, which was surrounded, because the enemy came out from the direction of millerov and from the north, and thanks to the heroism of the guys, they broke through to their main forces from the east, destroying four strong points that had already been exposed on the way, and these units, understanding, they also fall under the threat of the environment and the way they accomplished their task. we went to the border, kremina, rubizhne , starabelsk, in order to close the line, make a continuous line of defense and already

clearly get the enemy at this border, given the presence of this means, this will be the only opportunity to hold the enemy, stabilize the situation, regroup and carry on combat operations, people worked 100 times, considering that we had here... three battalions, advancing, well, you understand, which russian groups were there, well , they listed, and this group was stopped, because it was marching out and going to our rear in the direction of sloviansk, kramatorsk, and completely closing the ring, and this is the collapse of the entire group, and in principle, this is the collapse of ukraine, because the main forces are half of the armed forces that were concentrated here. because we had 22 brigades somewhere at the beginning of the war, half of them were performing tasks on the front line, and half of them were restoring combat capability, but

about the brigades, i understand that basically everyone fought, including newly mobilized people, which were called up as part of or1, or-2, operational in the first place, but are there any units that could be noted and in which directions it was, i can say that all the brigades that fought, that s... 59- that brigade showed itself, well, yes, this is a district of happiness, that the 57th brigade, that the 30th brigade, that the 24th brigade, that the 95th brigade, that the 53rd brigade, that the 54th brigade, that the 36th brigade, well, all the brigades that were there to, so to speak, single out the best from the worst, all perfectly fulfilled their task, yes, the fate of some was much more. yes 54th brigade, which stood in this direction, well , it endured so much, it destroyed together with the 36th brigade

up to a division of the enemy in the first days, well, these are huge numbers, these are huge numbers, these are these numbers, which are difficult to understand until you have gone through it yourself, what did these guys do, just to... understand the consequences if our group was surrounded, as the enemy planned, and what remained in ukraine, well, it is difficult for me to predict the end of this war, it would probably be in two or three weeks , you started your story with what in the first on the same day, there were attacks on the control points, and immediately i want to clarify what actually happened in the headquarters of the oos, but in the first days, how was the leadership, did they sleep or not sleep? there was a threat of loss of controllability, because in fact many people talked about it on the scale of ukraine, that the armed forces retained controllability and, accordingly, could repel the russian

troops. how was it on your guide? the first rockets just arrived at the command post, they did not go exactly to the target along the buried command post, but the sc could not stand it, the whole the personnel was placed precisely under... underground shelters since the evening, that's why it saved everyone's life, it's called the blow was very powerful, and we lost communication for a short time, well, it was no more than half an hour, we lost power, but backup sources were turned on, the backup sources of communication also worked, so there was no loss, also at all strongholds, at all command posts and groups. the rest and the brigades also worked flawlessly, we had constant communication, led the troops from day one, especially the first three days were tense, it was a whole...

round-the-clock work, such a tense situation around the clock, where we did not understand how much we would have, what forces would go for such things, constant air strikes, we were then forced on the first day to inflict damage on the enemy on her territory on the milov airfield, because the complete superiority of the air prevented our troops from raising their heads, but the strikes on... the airfield on the enemy's territory forced them to pause, move their planes to other airfields, and this gave us the opportunity to sort things out and concentrate , and further already worked more effectively on their means of air direction, i do, i understand that it was quite a risky operation, still to move the points, as far as i understand

forward, when the line of the point is moved. the points were moved literally to the line of confrontation with the enemy, which was very active and active fighting precisely between the units that were defending and those that were advancing, and in that chaos it was difficult to understand where and which unit, well done artillerymen , they clearly worked, panic among the russians was huge, no one expected that the territory of russia will strike on the very first day of the war. how did you as a military man... perhaps you thought about it, you have the opportunity to strike on the territory of russia, well, you somehow led a war with russia while being in donbas, commanding the troops, and there is an opportunity to strike here? it was a preemptive strike, we had to do it because there were no other options, but we clearly understood that there was no other option, on the first day we destroyed seven planes and... a lot of planes, not

like i would like to, but there were many planes destroyed on the airfields, and i think russia understood then on the first day that everything would not be so simple, it would not be two or three days, but a fierce struggle was ahead of them, and it has been like that for two years already, you mentioned several times that that the first three days were critical, but can you explain to the civilian people what this resulted in, i.e. after three days the russian army stopped, why did it happen, why? happened, after three days we stopped the enemy's main forces, dealt them a fairly powerful blow, we saw that the mobilized forces were already rushing into battle, we formed a clear line defense, and the main thing is that the first wave, how to say, maybe panic, has passed, because the use of such a powerful amount

of aviation firepower. we didn’t have the means yet, the war, starting from the 14th to the 22nd year , took place without the use of aviation, so i will get used to the fact that you are constantly attacked by the air enemy, will be ready to repulse these attacks before that, it is also necessary to have a certain experience, some practice, and literally in three days. we managed to overcome, figure out how to proceed, people began to confidently shoot down the enemy's air force, no longer there was that impudence that was there on the first day, when the pilot performs a task without being ordered, he flies in front of the target, drops the ammunition in a targeted manner, harvests and leaves

the zone without being ordered... well, it is not a secret that there are cases when people leave the position, this phenomenon managed to avoid, you know, managed to avoid this phenomenon. there was not a single case when people abandoned their positions, retreated, perhaps , first of all, it was the fact that the positions were occupied by people with combat experience, they had all been in the war for more than a year, they were all used to shots, to shelling, to deaths, to injuries, and they went through quite a good training.