budapest, held talks with orbán there, everything was very nice, orbán said, i'm so pleased, but he got what he wanted, but on the other hand, maybe it's an approach, that's how european politics works, well, hungary is a super-difficult neighbor, but hungary not an enemy, we cannot have an enemy, and then be together with him in the eu and nato. hungary should become allies, as we have to rely on them as well. the fifth article, aka musketeer, is one for all. all for one, that's why politics in the eu is sometimes super complicated, all this logic, solidarity and so on, but we have to learn, if you like, european politics, we start negotiations, build situational coalitions, i always think that you should talk to hungarians not as enemies, sometimes super hard, sometimes carefully, sometimes with pressure, sometimes letting go, but nevertheless we need... this neighbor, we can't

make him an enemy, since we have one enemy, we can't afford more, remember what the chinese said, especially little when he started talking to nixon, to defeat the dragon, you always need to measure with a tiger but here is your former colleague peter sijarto, he was in tehran last week and did not talk about the supply of iranian weapons to russia, viktor orbán himself talks about special relations with the people's republic of china. how can such a policy take place simultaneously with membership in nato and the european union? maybe, what about yordagan? no, erdagan, he is also in nato, he is also his own among strangers, a stranger among his own, there is also hungary, and then you have fice going somewhere. i hope it's not a melting cumin, but sometime in a more unconscious way a civilized place. that is, in fact, the european union is not perfect either. but the european union must remain a space where there are minimal. the denominator, that is

, it is not necessary to go beyond it, and in the end it depends on everyone how we will hold it, if we climb out beyond the denominator, then the fingers will accordingly be pointed at us and will be pointed first of all at us, since we will be accused in all the deadly sins, when we're going to go through a very difficult, treacherous scenario, so we don't need enemies there, but what it's for us a lesson i agree that erdogan actually plays one game and orbán plays a completely different one, orbán bargains for his future, airdan bargained separately with sweden, separately with the states, for strategic things, in the sense of sweden, so as to protect himself from possible threats, which he considers to be threats , so the logic of orbán and erdogan was different, but here...

they did not cooperate, nevertheless, this cooperation, i will not say defeated, it may be the wrong verb, but nevertheless neutralized, and now sweden will be a member of nato, and i think we need to be very careful to look at this process and learn something from it, as well as from the finnish experience, and by the way, about our capabilities, this week there was information that the president of ukraine is visiting. "azerbaijan and armenia, and by the way, if there is a visit to irvan, it will be the first in many years, i would say, a visit to a country that is a member of the csto of the eurasian union, it can be considered that ukraine can for the first time play a role in caucasus independently, and secondly, that it can communicate with those countries that are in allied relations with russia, but together with with this they are trying to take a more independent position, of course, if we need it, i do n't see anything problematic in this, i would rather the opposite. did that, armenia is starting

to conclude arms supply contracts with france, france is starting to play a special role there as states, the iranians are doing something there and so on, and we also need to be part of this equation if we claim to be a middle country in world sense in terms of size, but we have elements of global politics, we have to show these elements of global politics, and... there is something to talk about, by the way, they have a lot to learn, and in the sense of building up the armed forces and security capabilities, and armenia has its role in the caucasus, we ultimately need all these corridors, since we will not transport goods through russia now , as before, and in the sense of our own economy, we need it, so i don't see anything supertribal...

controversial here, only strategy, here you don't always need to be guided by some situational things, the strategy should be, i think we can play, to role things central asia, and there are countries that would like us to play a certain role there, we cannot play a counterbalance role between there, conventionally the west, china and russia, but we can balance many things, and some central asian countries really want it, that's who turkmenistan, for example, uzbekistan, well, turkmenistan, we had cooperation in the sense of gas once, and it was interesting. work, but now it is not critical, i believe that we have a certain role in kazakhstan, that is, kazakhstan, uzbekistan, there are, well, but kyrgyzstan is a different reality, but today we talked about the poles, i talked about the poles i show you the statistics for kyrgyzstan, i say

, in two years, how your exports to kyrgyzstan have grown, they say, well, probably by 50 percent there, i say, no, by 22 times, and the chinese don’t need your exports, they all gone we can do something in russia , here i am showing you this whole story by goods, that there is, there is something to talk about with poles, crimeans, thank you, mr. pavlo, pavlo klimkin, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019 was in our ethers, thank you for coming, and we're going to take a break now for literally a few minutes, but please don't switch, because after that we will have a big interview with academician komla libanova, director of the institute of demography and social research of the academy of the national academy of sciences of ukraine about demographic processes in our country, you know that demography today - this is practically the same weapon as the real weapon, as the economy, so stay with us and please listen to this important conversation, good luck, laughter, physical

activity, sneezing, even during such a small strain, incontinence can to make myself known, feminost uro helped me, thanks to natural... uro helps to restore control over urination both day and night. feminost uuro - urination under control. ask at pharmacies. there are discounts on afida max 10% in psylsnyk, pamn and oskad pharmacies. oh, there are no potatoes, will you bring them? and already, asin, something has caught on. i remind you, you have a vivisection of dr. tice and you get up to work again. ointment with comfrey. german ointment for joint and muscle pain. also try dr. tice's comfrey warming cream, a proven means, and what will be born, you will see

what will be your wives, poems that unite the nation through generations, will sound in a special way, sisters telniuk in lviv with the program of our shevchenko. a musical interpretation with a symphony orchestra that inspires to believe, fight, live on march 11 in the theater of zankovetska, sister telniuk. don't miss out, tickets to contramarka ua. live sound. there are discounts on tantum verde, 10% in psarynyk, pam and oskad pharmacies. why am i here i have sensitive teeth, eat ice cream, pain, cold air. pain, sweet, pain. dentist used lakalot sensitive, which effectively reduces the sensitivity of teeth. if i had known lakad sensitive earlier, i would not have had to come here at all. lacalot sensitive - reliable protection against pain. there are discounts, currently a table, 15% in pharmacies plantain, memory and savings.

vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become languages ​​for many relatives, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. vasyl zima's big broadcast. a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. verdict with serhii rudenko from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you you can express your opinion on the evil of the day

with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, every day on weekdays from 20 to 22 for espresso. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. congratulations. and we have to talk with you, for sure, about the situation that developed in the second year of the war, we can

even talk about the third. two years after the great invasion have passed, in fact, and the question arises, what does the demographic situation in the country look like now, people return, people continue to leave, people make decisions, or is it all static, like the front line? no, no, it's not static, that's for sure, but i can't state anything serious either. the return of such a large-scale , nor - an increase in the migration flow, neither this nor that, they practically leave a little, return a little, and as for the mortality and birth rate, you know, we made a mistake in 2022, very seriously, we made a mistake in the estimates of the dead and births, and we erred in the negative direction, we underestimated. the number of births and we overestimated the number of deaths, so the situation is a little better

than at least with mortality and birth rate than we expected in the 22nd year, and for the 23rd year there is still nothing at all, we can only compare with the data the ministry of justice, but today only they give something, well, that is , we can say that people, let's say this, did not limit their family plans there, definitely, definitely limited to... less than we expect, well, i wish it was there in the christmas and pre-christmas years , and more died too, but no, there is not such a strong negative impact of the war as we estimated, although, i don’t know, maybe we were not mistaken, here is such a question, here we need to understand and we cannot get from the ministry of justice answers our question, let's say how children are recorded... ukrainian children who were born in the year 22 abroad, i.e. as born here or

as born abroad, yes, how are they counted, because we, well, count people , that they are permanent residents of ukraine, because they temporarily left, although according to certain signs they could not be considered there , they have been there for more than a year, but taking into account the war and their temporary status there, they are part of the permanent. population, so how are those who were born abroad recorded, in the 22nd year, as you understand , there were a lot of them, because i understand that pregnant women tried to get them out of here first of all, then maybe we are not too much they were mistaken, well, let's see, the very process of departure can be said to have stopped, or is it still after all, it did not stop en masse, it definitely stopped en masse, but it was no longer there in 23. it actually stopped somewhere in

the middle of march of the year 202 of the year of the year of the 22nd year, it started with it was still observed, but the scale of the departure was already half as much as, say, it was at the end of february, at the beginning of march, sometime after march 10, and can we assess the situation with the departure of people from the occupied territories, say, both towards ukraine and towards russia, that is, we do not understand anything. well , in order to draw some conclusions, at least some there must be statistics, at least something needs to be grasped, then you can already form hypotheses, then you can already compare it with something, we do not have any information about what is being done in the occupied territories, to be honest, a lot of people left the occupied territories in the first months of the war through russia, in other countries, yes, yes, yes, but they drove through russia, because there was no other way. and tell me, is it possible in terms of scale, i’m sorry , it is believed that in russia, well, at least this is

the confirmed data given by the high commissioner for refugees, oonovsky, his administration, they say that 1 million 200 of our citizens were taken to russia, from the occupied territories or not from the occupied territories, but it is believed that yes, and it is not known how many of these people are left in russia itself, you can say that, and more. such an interesting question is whether we can estimate the number of the population that is in ukraine today, at least approximately, and that may remain after the end of hostilities . well, if we talk about the territories under the control of ukraine. then we think that somewhere around 31 million with a small 31, 31, yes, you you understand that this is a conditional estimate, for sure you won’t do anything here, and if we talk about the borders of 1991, then somewhere around 36, if we imagine that 5 million

people live there, yes, by the way, here it's also an interesting story, in fact, we're watching it now. replacement by citizens of russia , yes, yes, well, it has pluses, it has minuses, the pluses are related to the fact that after deoccupation i do not see any legal problems with returning them somewhere on the territory of the russian federation, yes, and worse when our citizens are scattered there, this is worse, because those who let's say there... in the crimea or in the donbas for 10 years, how many? well, yes, they have been there for 10 years. you can imagine how the city washed them. let's say a child who went to school in the 14th or 15th year, he already graduates from this school, with what he graduates, with what knowledge of history, with what understanding of the situation and everything else. you know, i'm not so

negative here, because i have the impression that a huge number of people, especially young people, and apparently... the older generations are worse, of course, there is no doubt about it, but also the youth, they have a different attitude , just in a different way, well, that she does not live in the ukrainian space, let's say so, yes, yes, yes, and even, you know, look, just when there, let's say, they elected the most prominent ukrainians there. the ukrainian people chose, and when they chose the most outstanding russians, you could see the difference, well, yes, there were, there was competition between yaroslav the wise and stepan bandera in our country, there was no competition in russia, because in fact stalin was number one for the russians, they replaced him with someone also, alexander nevsky, it seems to me, something like that, yes, but there was no support for stalin

negative, that's what i'm talking about, they can be apolitical, but they... are determined to have a firm hand, you know, such a strong fist that will put everyone where they need to be, but the authorities today say that something must be done , so that ukrainians who are abroad return already, because they have become safer, because taxes are needed, because it is necessary that the western countries themselves do not pay. money to receive ukrainian refugees, how realistic is this approach? well, let's take it one by one: first, when we say that ukrainians should be returned, well, it is desirable that they return, not by force , of course, it is more important that they be in ukraine after the end, i know your position

regarding the end of the war, in many ways i share it, but that when the post-war period begins restoration, well, let's say, the war with... stop its hot phase, because in the hot phase it cannot last 10, 20, 30 years, well, i definitely do not believe in this, somehow it must be something, eh, then they will be greatly needed, and every day they are abroad reduces the likelihood of their return, every day, literally, because they are adapting there, well, according to almost all data sources that i look at, well... more than half are already working, well, that is , they are getting rid of the status of this protection little by little, yes, they are working, they are adapting, children must "must go to school or kindergarten, because in most countries it is mandatory, the issue is not discussed here, and here every day something is destroyed, and therefore the probability of their

return is decreasing, so it is very difficult, that it is very important that they... felt their ukrainianness, so that they felt that they belonged here they are waiting, and that's all, will a person feel that they are waiting for him when they say that they need to stop paying him money? no , well, serious people don't talk about the same thing, to be honest, even i can't imagine a purely technical, but as a democratic country that allowed people from other countries to stay on its territory, and under... certain conditions of stay , and what, she will not help a family with children to live, i cannot send money for ukraine, for ukraine to decide for itself how to help its citizens, this is a slightly different thing, i mean the proposal that they should not pay anything at all, i cannot imagine that, and

frankly, there is another problem here , the europeans are too interested in our labor force, so i don’t believe in it , from the word go countries, people who really live on welfare, let's say that, well, first of all the majority of these people do not work , women, do not work, because they either have small children who have not yet attended kindergarten, or they are some, well, old family members, who are you with them, and they are here too, here the question is not that they will not work here is the second question, and the first is that they... cannot work there, they are of working age, but they are not really able to work, and on the other hand, if they are there in two years at

they did not find a job with the help, the active help of the local authorities, then i apologize, what taxes will they pay here, in my place question, well, there is always such a balance between our effort to see a greater number of able-bodied people and the understanding that... now the western economies fulfill the role that the ukrainian economy can fulfill, that is, the maintenance of these citizens, let 's say, those who we have them in relatively safe regions, this was the first year of the war, it was definitely western ukraine, now it is more central ukraine, so they receive help from the state, yes, it is small, but taking into account the huge number, it not so small. i would still like to return to the question of people's participation in the reconstruction, because we can reach a compromise with you on such a conditionally political basis, although it is not up to us that such a hot

phase of the war, it will end there in the coming years, well, let's say so , because both sides simply will not have the resources for an intense war, but then again, if such a war ends without a peace agreement, without political agreements. that is, on the one hand there is no war, and on the other hand there is a danger of war, then the question does not even arise whether people will return, the question arises whether reconstruction takes place in such a situation, when every time you are faced with the situation that if you build something here, but they stand there, no, they do not advance, they just stand, yes i understand, and this is a question of how long this object that you will build, in which you will invest, will last, even if you are a ukrainian investor, i am not talking about foreignness, i understand, well... first, i think that giants that are quite quick to destroy, they will not rebuild, at least in such a situation,

and secondly, what about the security of the baltic countries or poland, our idea that there is a nato nuclear umbrella, at the moment when we decide that it does not exist, there will also be a completely different situation with investments, but still. can we analyze with you whether the investment movement in the direction of these countries has not slowed down, now it is also absolutely interesting, by the way , the topic for research is what happens to investments in the countries of central europe after 2022, i would still look more at eastern europe than the central one, eastern is what, well, it's poland, well, i think that it's just central, central - it's already austria, austria is already western, it's political geography, it's changing to ours. i keep saying that ukraine, if it becomes a member of the european union in the coming years, will also be central europe, the eastern one will be belarus with russia, well, there must be an east somewhere, russia is still not europe, well

, belarus is europe, well, it will be eastern , well, she will not be the only one, why, well, it can be so politically , yes, a different political system can fly, yes, according to it, so what’s in this plan, i meant purely geographical, yes, that is, to look at the visegrad four, what is happening with it there and see. the baltics , this is an interesting idea, by the way, well, then we will be able to predict the future investment movement with you in principle, because if it turns out that now investments are concentrated more there in the west, in the south of europe, or even go to other continents, relatively speaking, that's why we're talking about the economic was in mexico, maybe because it 's a territory that definitely no one will attack, how to say, no one will attack if yoela is behave not... not as predicted, so you see that now the situation is practically unpredictable, well, who could have expected that this is how

events in israel will develop, well who? well, here is a person in front of you who predicted this development, that they would jump in, yes, but about the fact that it will go like this in the future, about the fact that there will be a lot of rumors, i will tell you, i think that after the russian-ukrainian war too it was possible to talk about it from the point of view that, by and large, now, since we are talking about the necessity for certain countries to think about... the civilian population, wars can't be quick, you know, a quick war is when you bomb everything to pieces, by the way, that's what the united states' operation in iraq looked like, it was a massive bombing, but still it was point it was like that, but in any case, not in dresden, but in any case , no one can afford even such a thing now, and even since the time of george bush jr., the political situation has changed , and that's why it's been a year, on the other hand

, afghanistan. that was and was for a long time, well, it was the next stage of military operations, then there was still, yes, no, i agree that there cannot be such a war as it was before, we can talk in the other direction, we can discuss with you the question of whether there will be an outflow of the population after the end of the hot phase of the war, because end, you mean the lifting of martial law, the lifting of martial law, the freedom to leave the country. we are now also in a rather artificial situation, like in a test tube. well, to be honest, i rather think that it should be kept for the time being, because, well, let's put it this way, the fervor that was in the year 22, when the queues were huge until military commissariat and everything else is no longer

observed. and poll after poll , well, i am skeptical of most polls, but less so, in ukraine there is not such a high proportion of people who say that they are ready to defend ukraine with weapons in their hands, another question is that there are already many on the front, well, a certain part has already died or is seriously injured, this is also something that must be taken into account, but i am afraid that if we allow everyone to leave now. that's why many men did not add up, here the question already arises: are you a citizen of ukraine, you did not renounce your ukrainian citizenship when there was peacetime, you were satisfied with it, you were satisfied with the fact that you could travel there without a visa, or something else was convenient for you, but if you were satisfied with something, then after the start of the game, the rules of the game cannot be changed anymore, i i absolutely agree with that, but

i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about... the situation where you keep saying that this heated phase of hostilities must end in the coming years, we decided that this is an axiom, although it may not to be an axiom, but the end of the hot phase of the war means the end of martial law and mobilization, this is what the president has now turned to the verkhovna rada with a proposal to extend it for the next six months, and so it will be automatically extended, will be extended on some day when there will be no longer this hot phase of the war, either de facto or with signature some armistice agreements, not even ukrainian-russian ones, but with mediators, it stopped, and the verkhovna rada of ukraine does not prolong martial law, which means it does not prolong mobilization, there are no grounds, well, yes, it is happening, now the question begins, will there be a second wave of migration or not, will there be a second wave of migration or not, will be, will be, will be, because the husbands of the women who settled there, adapted there, who do not have housing here.

jobs, they will most likely go to them there, such a threat definitely exists , there is no doubt, but again, what is the ukrainian state to do here, to hold negotiations with the europeans so that they grant a certain status there? no, i think, no, i think, whether it's family reunification, you won't do anything, but here you won't do anything at all, here none legislation will not stand in the way of this, none, well, simply because it cannot be done, and i think that the only possibility is if i do. economic upswing in ukraine, after the end of the hot phase, if it will be possible to realize oneself here, if there is a restoration of housing, well, infrastructure in general, but primarily housing, and if business understands that it is easier and more profitable to make money here than there, then there is a great chance.