it will be because men and women who settled there, adapted there , who do not have housing and work here, they will most likely go to them there, such a threat definitely exists, there is no doubt, but again, what is the ukrainian state to do here, to negotiate with the europeans so that they would grant a certain status there, no, i think, no, i think , if it is about the separation of families, don't do anything, but here you won't do anything at all, here no legislation will stand in the way of that, none . well, simply because it cannot be done, and i think that the only possibility is if there is an economic upswing in ukraine, after the end of the hot phase, if it is possible to realize oneself here, if there is a restoration of housing, well, infrastructure in general, but primarily housing, and if business understands that it is easier to make money here and more profitable than there, the chance is great. that many people

will return, and i would place a bet in general not only on this latest wave, which left after february 24, but also on the return of those who left earlier, they may even be children of migrants, that is, migrants already of the second generation, it is possible, they can be returned, and it seems to me that this is the direction of our actions, and if we cannot return them... then turn them into a kind of agents of ukraine, so that they contribute to the image of ukraine, such you know, to improve it, then this is an option for israel or ireland, yes, yes, and without this, without this there will be no investment in ukraine, but here there is, you know, the question of return, in israel they are always happy for any repatriate who comes, and they don't tell anyone in israel, listen, you weren't with us all these wars, here i imagine myself tomorrow.

flew to israel, i say, you know, i want to become a citizen of israel, and this lady at the border control there or, i don’t know, in this department where citizenships are issued, they say, well, take your passport, but where were you on october 7, where were you on october 7, 2023, why were you not interested in israel then, i know for sure that i will not face such a reaction at all, there is already a reaction in ukraine. people come back, they want to do business, so they actually have more opportunities than those who remain here, and those who remain here feel that in this way they are serving the interests of those who did not survive the war, because they are worse off, but this requires a very balanced public policy, which is why i categorically against giving them any special preferences for the sake of returning people from abroad, but this cannot be done in any case,

the only people, well, whom society will forgive and even applaud for any preferences, are the military, the only more or less, in such a privileged, in a psychological sense, state, when compared to them , there are those who have never left anywhere, not only abroad, but from their relatives. yes, who stayed like this all the time , well, kharkiv residents, i know a lot, i can already see around kyiv, the person says, i have not left anywhere, that is, there are, there are, of course, such moments, and if the authorities start mistakes, this division, which for now is only a division, a division is normal, it can turn into a split, but then it will be bad, well, this indicates that we need... some measures to adapt these

people, and they need to be adapted, and maybe even more need to be adapted to those who were and are today in zakarpattia, let's say, or i don't know there in frankiv region, because there is no work there such, well, for as long as i can remember, i have been dealing with these problems for as long as western ukraine - it was a labor-surplus region. well, now it seems to me that the situation is different, no, it doesn’t matter, but where did they get everything else, well, because the huge number of people who work remotely, after all, we are dealing with another economy in the world, well, i have already seen that even japan wants to give foreigners so-called digital nomad visas, japan did not want to see anyone at all, not everyone, but we also have such a generation of people, you know, it turned out quite differently for us, those who had an education,

who expected to work remotely, they went abroad. abroad to a large extent, well, the least there is in poland, where it is 18%. rural population, the remaining 82 urban, and let's say there are many more places in germany, in the czech republic, in italy, which means that the rural population did not go abroad , where did they go, if there, well, you cannot live there, if it is an occupied territory, if it is a territory of active hostilities, then they went within the borders of ukraine, within the borders of ukraine the rural population. not too well, he knows how to work remotely, the rural population is a different sector with absolutely no work, so the problems in the west have remained, and i think that the flow of internal migrants from

the west to central ukraine is precisely related to this. because there is work in central ukraine, there, let's say, well, i don't know, well, the mhp, it works, but it didn't go anywhere. and we can talk about the appearance of some new , let's say, urban centers that conditionally replace these urban centers that were almost lost in these 10 years, well , not only donetsk there with luhansk, but also kharkiv, which after all it still decreased in terms of population, it decreased, it decreased, kherson definitely decreased, well , kharkiv and kherson have different weight categories. kharkiv is a classic metropolis, and i am absolutely convinced that despite its proximity to the border, kharkiv will preserve functions of the technical capital. this does not, no, does not technically mean a mass of factories. let's say, i

am convinced that the tank plant should be removed from there, and it should be removed both for reasons of, well, ensuring the integrity of this plant so that it... is destroyed, and for reasons of public safety, because trying to destroy the kharkiv plant, they get anywhere, and therefore it will also matter, but higher educational institutions of a technical profile, there are laboratories, research institutes, there most likely will be preserved, but it's not that simple either, we know that the ukrainian economy and higher education have always counted on foreign students, you know how many there were in kharkiv. especially kharkiv, odesa is still so different, and kharkiv is definitely not, but you know, all this is compensated

by the fact that our people go to study, and i, by the way, unlike most people who analyze. the situation with education, i believe that education is not about the labor market at all, but about thinking, yes, education - education is about human development, about the ability to communicate, about the ability to communicate, about the ability to analyze, about the ability to express one's thoughts, er, to prove one's opinion, the fairness of one's opinion , and so on, and so on, and so on, and about the labor market - this is schools, this is colleges, this is this city. .. vocational and technical institutions, this is what we need to talk about, and what to do about it, i absolutely do not know, because maybe after the war something will change, because here, well , i expect that western

companies will come after all serious, maybe they will come not so much for reasons of help as for reasons just myself business, if it is possible to make money here, then they will come, if it is not possible , then private business will not come here, but western companies, this still means different working conditions, a different attitude towards employees, and a different wage, but if this everything will be changed after the war, then we can count on the fact that young people will go to learn working professions, if it does not change, then no one will go there, and this will happen. well, a very serious challenge for the ukrainian labor market, very se again, again, a good question about this category of workers, i.e. let's imagine that the children went to school in 2002, well, i say conditionally, this is a reference point,

a person studies in the first grade, and now he goes to the third grade in ukraine in these conditions, well, let's say, he is already seven years old. er studies at school during the war, and in ukraine, how much will it be a child who will think about his professional future, how much a child in general... those who live in such a stressful situation can be considered active participants in the education market, let's say, if not labor, no, they will be participants, because in in ukraine, somehow , by some miracle, the attitude towards education is preserved, and not only boys, to make it clear, but also girls, they, it is really preserved, so they will be participants, another question is how far they will be... psychologically ready for this , well, that's what i'm talking about, it's very serious, it's still surviving stressful

conditions, and we have to agree with you that it's much easier for you and me to survive stressful situations, because we are, in principle, tall people, adults, we we know how to somehow control our emotions, children can't, i'll tell you once said that for me, when i heard from the lips of my four-year-old grandson, babushka, when i cried, i thought they were all from... from stuz, he was talking about russia. we try so that children, well, do not hear this, do not watch television, do not feel this hatred, because children should not grow up in hatred, but it is there, and it is the vast majority, and how can it be otherwise, no way, that is why psychologists , social psychologists should prepare for this, we are fixated on the problems of veterans, veterans, and women veterans. how to adapt them, and they give me examples of afghanistan, examples vietnam in the states, these are completely different things

, it is not mass, but the question is not even, the question is not even this, the question is not even this, the ukrainians will either return from the front victorious, or not at all, well, you yourself say about ending in intensive phase of hostilities, the people who will return after the intensive phase, they will return neither victorious nor non-victorious. but they won't be defeated, they won't, of course they won't be defeated, what was the tragedy of vietnam for the states, they came back defeated, what about afghanistan was for the soviet union , the scale was different there, it’s clear that it wasn’t, but less so, everyone understood that they fought for nothing and lost, that won’t happen here, if you already mentioned the boys and girls, then you have to to understand what the overall distribution of these boys and girls will be. in the future, the demographic situation is also important, in this situation, when, after all, women, on the one

hand, men are fighting, on the other hand, women are leaving, yes, and approximately the gender balance is preserved, that's why yes, well, that's it interesting moment, yes, because i wanted to to understand, as a rule, the gender balance is disturbed, well, after the war, yes, but not in this situation, not in this situation, because it is very poor, well, today we think that somewhere around 6 million of our... well, not exactly, but children approximately up to 40%, from 30 to 40%, it depends on the country, another 20 percent are men of various ages and health levels, and the rest are women, and that is why you do not fear that the adaptation of people who ... especially children who are currently growing up in european countries will have a hard time in

ukraine, also because they are simple will stop perceiving what we perceive as the norm, as the norm, what am i thinking about, i 'm just looking at the landscape from the windows of your office, and i imagine that i would not have grown up in kyiv, even in the soviet one, but would have grown up in paris, well, even, not even in paris , let alone in some strasbourg, i would look at all this now, i think, and think what a horror, look, i would not think, i would not think at all, because the elementary apartment is small, to things, much smaller than ours, which place is located, i don’t know, well, i don’t want to talk about poland, in strasbourg, the roofs buildings, it is very beautiful, it is very romantic, it is proethic, and you see romanticism, well, look carefully, where is romanticism, you will see a little higher than the floors, i climb higher on the floors, when

i look at the roofs of lviv and i see that they haven't been restored, that's not all, that's all to come, you know, i felt a little sick, i drove past the arsenal yesterday or the day before yesterday, the factory became scary, well, yes, and there it is, well, the very building of the arsenal, there to knock out windows, i didn't know. that got there recently, well, on the other hand, the arsenal is now turning into a large cultural space, and this is also, you understand, also large, this is precisely how we become more alike. no, no, i’m not talking about that, i’m talking about the fact that i got there, but that’s true, but i ’m talking about the civilized space, you know, because, relatively speaking, in the same, i would say, foot court in which a person will walk into arsenal, he will walk into manchester or madrid, and that, and he will not feel the continental difference, i would say that we are cooler, i don't think so, because we

had a bigger arsenal, but in the center of the city, but the fact itself is absolutely here. obvious parallels with urban, but the landscapes, i would say urban development, well, this will pass, this will pass, and you know, i paid attention to the fact that it was before the war, when our labor migrants were returning, even if they were returning well, for a short period of time, they changed the psychology of those around them, their immediate environment, psychology changed, they treated many things differently there. nevertheless, if we talk about how the population that is here should adapt to the circumstances, that is also a question, the same also the question of the coming years, how to create jobs for people, to what extent does the state have the ability to support those who need this support, oh, don't get in the way, everyone expects the state not to get in the way, it's true,

well, there are people who need it now help, there are people, i am talking about business, business, you see that the state needs to take taxes from where and get this very army, but please pay attention, the anxiety has not stopped yet, the cafe has already opened, come in and drink coffee, and good coffee , by the way, the coffee has stopped better than it was, much better, well, it's because people can't afford not to work even in dangerous conditions, because they lose, it's life, of course. in the first months of the war, you remember that everything was closed absolutely strictly, no, well, now there are also big, big super ones, yes, these said, the institution threatens to destroy a large number of people at once, of course they do not work, but on the other hand, these small cafes 'early, small restaurants, they work, but we again i

'm not talking about that, i'm talking about how to find their place for those people who do not have their place now. on the labor market, well, we can't create an infinite number of coffee shops, we can't, we definitely can't, moreover, even a city like kyiv, which, actually, hasn't been industrial in recent years, so it's not yet it's not paris, it's not london, the fact is that now a large number of people receive money from the public budget, it is the money of western taxpayers, and they. spend this money in these same cafes and supermarkets, if they will not receive this money, will this whole line of business also disappear on ours? well, on the one hand, yes, and on the other hand, if ukraine still spends its money on the war, let's be honest, on the war yes, yes, if the war stops, then there will be no need to spend money on the war in such an amount ,

you see, we come to the point with you all the time, and this is not the first time that if there is a final, then... no, if there is no final, then there is nothing to talk about, you know, we are currently conducting an interesting research on the resilience of the ukrainian economy, and we have arrived today there was, well, a meeting, not a meeting, a discussion, we talked about the fact that the main sign of resilience today is survival, that is , the survival of the economy, the survival of people, well , what people in principle in this territory, i would say in the post-soviet territory, are best at do it on the soviet one. and this, by the way , saves us, i think that this is what saved us in the 22nd year, the fact that at least there is a generation that remembers the late 80s, early 90s, there are many of these people , so they say that they passed and not because of this, yes, yes, yes, yes, and

if you look at what people were afraid of, not that that they were afraid that they were more than anything else at the end of 2022, at the beginning of the 23rd, the lack of electricity, the lack of water, the lack of heat, and the fact that it came out, even preceded this lack of communication, that was the most stressful for people , the connection became something, well, for people, the connection became something, well, quite material, i would say, but with... on the other hand, when you say that there is nothing to talk about without the ending, it seems to me that dangerous position, because we have to be ready for a situation where the final as there is no such thing, well, listen, well, there is a predochiva near east there. there is no final as such for many countries, not only for israel, and we must understand that there is a model of the israeli economy, there is a model of the economy of the conditional west bank of the jordan river,

there is a model of the economy of lebanon, these are different models of the economy, god forbid lebanon survive, but i think we wouldn't survive if lebanon didn't, well we're beyond my competence, so i don't want to develop this topic too much, but if lebanon didn't let the palestinians in, things would be different in lebanon, well in lebanon in any case... i don't argue, yes, it's true, but in lebanon we have exactly this situation: the war does not end, the most successful population has left lebanon, the people who live there, in principle, cannot to get out of this circle of survival, yes, and this is a dangerous model, i don't believe in a civil war in ukraine, and i'm not talking about this civil war, i'm talking about the fact that the model of survival becomes a constant, the model of survival will be a constant, even when , even after we finish, not so much the hot phase, but just finish the war, certain time will be dominated by the survival model in ukraine

, because ukraine is a poor country, and now with a ruined, well, i don't want to say nothing, but a very ruined economy, and we have to think about what kind of economy we want to build, well, i'm far from thinking , that we will start... to rebuild azovstal in the version in which it was, well, it’s just far away, or even metallurgical enterprises that do not exist, well, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, well, this should not be done, we need modern ones enterprises to develop, and by the way, that's what i think more about the model economy, i understand more that the israeli model is the best for ukraine, not because we... need to develop the military industry, that is self-evident, but there is another argument: there will be a labor shortage in ukraine, we will not be able to provide the labor force the economy

that existed before the war is impossible, simply for the reason that there will not be as much population, well, depopulation is not an inevitable thing, if we want to compensate for this depopulation, then the only way out is large-scale immigration, and we are with it we'll manage, but i'll deal with this... there are still a large number of people who will be different by a population group, it is not known from where, but it is known , unfortunately, from where, well, from poorer countries than ukraine, well, from where, it is long, well , it is asian countries, it is african countries, it is not europe, of course, india is not sure, that will go a lot, india is not scary, these countries are scary, where, where the population is militant, bangladesh, pakistan, yes, well, they travel all over. in europe, they stand in queues at passport controls in cyprus and in but, but eggs, but eggs that travel from i will never forget the

first time i was in london, and they have some there was a demonstration, i was just scared, well, you are scared, the british are not scared, because it is part of their empire, they are calm about it, but there is danger, there is danger in this sense. and so, coming back to what model to build, it seems to me that we should build a model that is not a place of work, that does not require a lot of labor, and this is the option of israel or slovakia, you can go there, you can, so that it is also not very small, there is a smaller territory, but there is not so much population, and there are other things the region in... the territory is large, somehow it is necessary to ensure transport accessibility, and to ensure, well, what is needed is a sufficiently

large number of people, for a smaller number of population, for a smaller, but still a long train route, and not many people get on board , there are not many people sitting down, but still much more than in slovakia, that's what covid, well , the covid pandemic, taught us that it is necessary to end everything. necessary, necessary for the survival of the population was produced in this country, cannot be calculated as it was before covid, before the pandemic, as to what we will buy, no, it turns out that we will not buy, because some kind of economy is closing and everything, well, in this way we can really come to this option, yes, although israel is still a small territory, here it is not small amount. and the population there is not many, and the population there is not many, well, for such an area, why not many, it is 10, the density is not so great, yes, yes. well then

, so we can say there, as the finale of our conversation, not the finale of the war, unfortunately, unfortunately, that we have to build here is such an economy, well, an economy that is not labor-intensive, that does not require a lot of labor, an economy that is oriented towards an educated population, this is also very important, that takes into account the fact that there are not as many people in a large area as before there was not much for such, never was. an economy that takes into account proximity, a very aggressive neighbor, because the war will end, the war will not end, we, the imperial mindset, will not get rid of it, thank you for this conversation and for the fact that we were able to end it like this, end it optimistically .

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serhii zgurets is with us. and how does the world live? now, yuriy fizar will speak in more detail about what has happened in the world, yuriy dobrecher, please speak to you. two hours to keep up with economic news. time to talk about money in wartime. oleksandr morchivka is with us. alexander, congratulations, please. and sports news. review of sporting events by yevhen postukhov. two hours in the company of your favorite presenters. thank you very much to elina chechenna for the information about cultural news. presenters who have become like relatives to many. natalka didenko is ready to tell us about the weather for the coming day. and also respectable. studio andriy parubiy, people's deputy of ukraine, was also the chairman of the verkhovna rada of ukraine. events of the day in two hours. vasyl zema's big broadcast. a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. the war created many challenges for us ukrainians. and even more so for ukrainians with disabilities. but we know that

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