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i tried herovital. gerovital+ is a phytovitamin complex that cares for the heart and strengthens the body. gerovital+ - good health, active life. the herovital energy novelty is even more iron for good causes. herovital energy - reception once a day. greetings, my name is myroslava barchuk and this is the program. own names, a joint project of ukrainian foam and espresso tv channel. today we are talking about malevich. just these days he turns 145 years old, and so do i it seems that this is a good opportunity to talk about why he is a ukrainian artist, why he is a person with a ukrainian, at least, cultural identity, and tetyana filevska, my guest, she is the creative director of the ukrainian institute, a creative researcher, will help me in this. kazimir malevich and

the ukrainian avant-garde in general. tatyana, congratulations, good evening. good evening. i suggest looking at malevich, but through the prism of our own identity. do you remember the year 2016, when such an idea arose to rename the boryspil airport to the airport malevich and then there were different opinions, there were terribly heated discussions. i remember such a position. what people said, well, attributing ukrainianness to malevich is our inferiority complex, malevich is not ukrainian, and in principle and in the end the airport remained, there was a vote, the airport remained boryspil, but i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about the fact that six years have passed , and it seems to me that something about these, during this time, first of all shifted in ourselves, and when it shifted in ourselves, then...

museums in the world began to call malevich ukrainian an artist, not a russian artist, it has something to do with how our identity has changed in the last six years, certainly what we have learned about ourselves in these six years, in the last two years, has a lot to do with how we we evaluate the events that happened before us, and our past, our attitude towards it, and we reevaluate many, many things, and those events that happened from... it also seems to me that our work, which was developed in this direction, because, if we talk about kazimir malevich, yes, this is what i do, and i know how much research, publications, and films have been done over the last six years, and we actually understood that there is ukrainian in malevich, and why we can fit him into our context, and how he is related to him. because it is precisely in these connections

that identity is revealed, a connection is revealed, and when we knew nothing about malevich and only heard from researchers from russia that we cannot talk about any kyiv period, because there are no documents, no archives , how will you prove that he is there at all he did something and it had some significance, but it is another matter when there are published materials of his lectures at the kyiv art institute, which are also available in english in this book. in french, this book actually came out in the 16th year, then it was still later, translations were published separately, who published it? this edition of the rodovid publishing house, supported by the nizhny novgorod business school, and it actually took place, and this edition was published together with an international conference dedicated to malevich, actually there have been two such conferences over the years, and it is also very important when researchers of malevich from... the world and researchers of the avant-garde from all

over the world come to kyiv in order to agree on some new finds and new discoveries in malevich, if i remember correctly, the same was issued in the genealogy. a large study of jean-claude markadesh in the 12th year of the french researcher of malevich's work, and it was he who started the first, at least i learned from him that malevich can be called a ukrainian artist. well, i think, if we talk about who will be the first to pay attention to malevich's connections with ukraine, it would be fair to mention dmytro omlyanovich gorbachev, who in general is the discoverer of the avant-garde, this is the man who actually with his own hands unwound these ramparts that were destined for destruction, this... fund in the national art museum, it was the avant-garde art that was destroyed in its entirety directed by the bolsheviks in the 1930s, and of which very little actually remained, and the artists themselves were destroyed, their works were destroyed, the archives were destroyed, and this actually made it possible to say later that you

had nothing here, but if , as you can talk about malevich's kyiv period, if there is nothing to talk about, that's it, but, as it turned out, some archives have the ability to emerge from the ashes, to appear. and actually creating history , rewriting it, we will certainly talk about it now, about the fact that there is ukrainian in malevich, yes, why is he ukrainian, but you mentioned dmytro gorbachev, i listened to his wonderful, simply wonderful lectures, i advise everyone to ukrainian, now it is not called an art institute, but an art academy, yes, and he talks, in particular, about malevich, these are extremely interesting lectures, and it was actually in art academy, but i remember... that you made a film about malevich in the 19th year, and this film is called malevich was born in ukraine, you are the screenwriter of this film, and what struck me was that pavlo gudimov tells that in this the art academy itself was opposed to the fact that, in kyiv,

there was opposition to the fact that malevich is a part of the history of this academy, that malevich taught at them, that is, some of the teachers did not know this at all. how could this happen, why did this happen, how could this happen? by the way , these are the lectures of dmitry gorbachev that you are talking about remember, we also organized, i was a co-organizer then, and it was actually an attempt to return malevich to the walls of the academy, and in fact, when malevich taught in the late 20s, it was a different time, it was a different art academy, it is not for nothing that, for example, a european journalist who came to kyiv called it the kyiv bauhaus, because it was. an absolutely unique art school, where volodymyr tatlin, oleksandr bogomazov, mykhailo boychuk, malevich, and a lot of outstanding artists who gathered there in the same walls, and each of them had their own teaching method there,

it was the period of this ukrainization and skrypnyk's policy, so it's all thanks to him, so it's specifically the year 1924, we have clear records of 1930. dates of this period, when the rector was ivan vrona, he was actually appointed a violinist there, and in fact, even the appointment of malevich, avron agreed with skrypnyk, as we know from the documents, that is, there were direct direct connections, and this is exactly the story, what a bright, short, yes, but bright these six years, it ends in the 30th year, when actually this wave of repression against avant-garde art from moscow reaches kyiv, and because actually these ho... on avant-garde artists, they started first in russia, from the middle of the 20 -th, after lenin died, stalin came to power, when revolutionary art was no longer needed, because the soviet union turned into an empire very quickly, and it is obvious that a totalitarian regime does not need revolutionary art, it is dangerous for it.

now we will talk about repression, but i i understand correctly, you are now talking about the fact that these repressions, which were back then in the days of stalinism, are the consequence and inertia of this... the attitude towards avant-gardeism is oblivion in the modern kyiv art academy, without a doubt, that is, the politics of the 30 year, which was introduced under stalin, it still results in oblivion and reluctance to have anything to do with malevich at all, in my experience, and since the mid-1990s, we have been trying to convince the academy that malevich is worth at least hanging his portrait on the walls next to others professors, and i know personally how many times i have heard no from rectors, deputy rectors , and so on, but how they say it, i.e. why, that he is not a socialist realist, i.e. how that, actually, well, that is, they say that what is taught in the academy, and that socialist realist canon, which still

seems to have gone nowhere, that in fact, this abracadabra that they do not understand, and for them malevich remains an incomprehensible abracadabra, in fact, they, as it were, turn away from it and do not want to nothing to do with it yes, that is why it is still hostile, it is quite alien in the institute, i cannot say that if there is actually no teacher there who... understands this and it is worth mentioning that dmytro antonyuk is also in our film, he is an architecture teacher, and actually he reconstructed this presence of malevich in his office with his own efforts, he even created a myth around it that it was precisely malevich's office, although it is not incomprehensible or so, but he recreated the exhibition there, and actually this is his personal effort, yes , because he also had this moment when his foreign colleague she seems to have come there from sweden, and she embarrassed him by the fact that... she knew about what malevich taught in kyiv, he, teaching in the same walls, knew nothing about it,

had never heard of it, and so on in fact, this personal experience of his was so quite traumatic and led to the fact that he wanted to return this malevich, and in fact, with him, we tried to somehow legitimize it within these walls, but unfortunately, it is still not the case, and malevich is still quite such a foreign element in the academy, the most influential ukrainian... the artist is, as it were, a stranger to the main, as it were, center of the educational center of art in kyiv. i interrupted you. you were talking about the repressions against malevich, when did they begin, because he initially identified himself with the revolution, so he also called himself a revolutionary, when the persecutions began , actually, well, that is, the revolution as such... and it was not only politically, but it happened, these ideas were revolutionary, they were first of all

formed at the beginning of the century in the cultural environment, because people understood that the old empires had to die, and artists, in particular, avant-garde artists , they tried to build for themselves this, this future without empires, where people are all free, where everyone has the same opportunities, can equally realize themselves, and in fact these ideas... a beautiful, enlightened future, they were formed in the environment of avant-gardes even before the 14th year, that is, in fact, the revolution was not the first, but the art was the first, yes, and when this political wave actually appeared, yes bolshevism, they realized that they needed it this support, and something, that will visualize their idea of ​​this change for the broad masses, who were often even illiterate, and needed some bright ones. images and therefore the bolsheviks adopted avant-garde art, they used it because it illustrated

this radicalism and changes, but this changed very quickly, despite the fact that the artists themselves, they very often did not identify themselves with bolshevism. malevich, in fact, according to his political preferences , he was more of an anarchist, and, by the way, even before the 19th year, if i am not mistaken, he was published in newspaper an anarchist, that is, it also talks about his some... identification and identification in a political sense, then it is obvious that when anarchism, if yes, was defeated, there was a certain reality to which he adapted, so he cooperated with the bolshevik regime, he even had a rather successful career, he, for example, carried out a reform of museums, he proposed to create a network of museums of modern art in the soviet union, which was based on modern art, they bought works from artists and distributed them to all these museums in soviet union, that is, in principle , the network of museums that we know, yes, the soviet one, as it were, this is malevich’s idea, he as a manager,

let’s say, so cultured, came up with it and implemented it, here, but malevich, if you carefully read his memoirs there, diaries, he was very skeptical of the bolsheviks, he was never, if anything, a supporter of these ideas, although he had very good connections and some very high-ranking bolsheviks periodically signed up for him when he was arrested there or wanted to be released somewhere or was not released from outside the soviet union. but but in fact, it all ended very tragically both for the avant-garde of avant-garde art in general and for specific people for malevich, because when the government changes in the 20s, they begin to persecute the avant-garde, first it begins with the then capital, leningrad or petrograd , they actually close the institute of artistic culture, which malevich headed for three years, they accuse him of all mortal... mortal sins and actually cut off his opportunities for any activity, and then kyiv appears

in his life, as this is the last hope, he is invited to kyiv, given complete freedom, and here, in fact, skrypnyk still had the opportunity for a certain time to restrain this wave, yes, which came from russia, a wave of repression, a wave of persecution, and so on for a few years, this atmosphere of freedom remained here, malevich actually planned to move to kyiv, to move his students, his family, but this... opportunity closed in the 1930s, this wave of repression came, vrona was dismissed from the institute, all these avant-garde artists were banned preferences, but already in kyiv. already, although kyiv was not even then the capital , but already in kyiv, all these prohibitions arrived, malevich was arrested, while he was under arrest, he was dismissed from the institute, everything that was in his office was thrown out, had his office at the institute, and actually this story ended very sadly, please tell me, but he went to berlin before that,

he participated in the berlin exhibition, he traveled through poland, reached berlin, because he was there several times.. .months, and suddenly the soviet authorities order him to return, it was clear for him, for what, i will say now, what i am basing it on is that it was clear to malevich what would happen to him next, and why he is being forced to return, because there are his wills of the 27th year, and to what extent i understand that he was going to berlin and he was taking out some things, i understand that the texts are like that. his some kind of work to preserve, and he leaves such a kind of will in berlin - this is the 27th year, the 27th year, this and he left this text in berlin, in the event of my death, imagine, in the event of my death, or imprisonment, and if the owner of these manuscripts wishes, wishes to publish them, then for this they

need to be studied and then translated into another language, because being under revolutionary influence at one time, there may be... strong contradictions with this protection, with this form of protection of art that i have now. i mean, what does it mean? that means first of all, he understands that he's either going to be killed or he 's going to be imprisoned, and he says that he 's under, he's under pressure, i understand correctly, absolutely, why he, why he did not stay in berlin when he, when he was summoned, well, actually malevich, when he was going on this trip. he had a plan to somehow stay in europe, this trip was originally planned as a trip to warsaw, berlin and paris, paris was his dream, like every artist, modernist, but it was not to be. malevich came to warsaw and there he submitted an application for a french visa, in this application he indicated himself as a pole, although he always described himself as a ukrainian, already at that time,

he wrote about himself as a ukrainian, because after the soviet-polish war of 21- th year and it was already dangerous to be a pole to the soviet union, i suspect that this became known to the special services, so when he came to berlin, he had just opened his exhibition in berlin, and literally the next day a telegram arrived demanding that he return to the soviet union in 24 hours, otherwise he was only in berlin for a few days, that's right, well, that is, he had time to arrive, unpack the exhibition , hang it up, there he also went to the bauhaus for a few days, that is, he was in germany there, well... not long, literally there for up to two weeks, and so he is forced, literally for the next one the day after the opening of the exhibition, he had to return, that is, he did not succeed , he did not succeed in staying in the west, so he did not succeed in getting a visa as a pole to go to france to get involved there, the poles were actually not completely sure whether he does not cooperate with the bolshevik

regime and is not a spy, that is, he has fallen, so to speak, between two swords and between fire. and a sword, yes, that is, between two such systems, and moreover, there is a suspicion that in this, in this telegram, there were threats to his loved ones, because he was left with a daughter, mother, wife, his students, who certainly, well, could have been victims of this blackmail, and he returns to the soviet union, he is arrested, for what? there are memories of the family that when he returned to moscow. he was immediately arrested and kept in lubyanka for several days, this is an unreliable, well, unconfirmed archival story, because first of all, russia has never opened its archives, let alone the archives of its special services, so it is impossible to verify this as of now, it is based only on his memories families, maybe, but maybe he was actually under this arrest for a few days, but in fact, what

such a significant arrest that was in his life, he happened with... precisely in the 30th year, that is , 2.5 years after returning from germany , and the actual reason for this rest was a trip abroad, because he was accused of espionage in favor of germany, he had some stamps left from that trip, which, when he was arrested, were found and he was accused of espionage in favor of germany, in espionage and this country who, who did this, actually broke the man's fate, because... he will die literally in five years from cancer, but in principle, obviously, the experience also somehow damaged his health, and this country after all says: when , when he gains world recognition and world fame, she says: this is a russian artist, and everywhere malevich is written as russian, this is my introduction to

malevich's ukrainianness, please tell us what arguments we have that he is a ukrainian man cultural identity, well, we can talk about a number. let's say things that defined malevich, his personality, his views, his attitude to art, in addition to the very fact of being born in kyiv, moreover, in kyiv on zhilyanska, this is important, because it was the environment of the old community, across the street from him lived the tragomanovs, kosachis, that is, it was the environment of people who actually dreamed of ukraine, and actually lived this ukrainianness, ukrainian culture, and even despite the fact that it was polish. family, yes, if such poles, impoverished nobility, were ukrainized, it is obvious that there were connections, yes, and this everything would be even, if the environment, which were mixed with each other. then the malevich family

lived in ukrainian villages until malevich actually turned 18, and this forever determined his attitude to life and, in general, some of his ideals in life. he writes in his autobiography at the end of his life that he admires the whole life of the peasants, he likes it. their life, their houses, their clothes, their, their food, their art, and in general ukrainian peasant women were my first art teachers, this is his direct quote, but he imitates them in everything, he believes that in fact, this is a real life, a free life, he says that they live according to nature, harmoniously, that they go to the fields singing in the morning, work in the evening with the sun and come home also singing, that is, for him it is some kind of such an idyll. which he, well, being a man there and before his death, he knew that he was dying, he considered it to be such a paradise on earth, his own paradise,

that is, this ukrainian childhood was for him such, well, the best thing that happened in his life, and then he very quickly understands what he has this is the desire to be an artist, yes, he is very interested in it, his mother supports him, teaches him all kinds of crafts, he actually studies in ukrainian, tsi is also in this, and he aspires to master this profession, and it is also connected with kyiv, actually , first of all, the one where he sees the picture for the first time, it was a painted shop window, but he describes it like this, that it was a girl sitting on a donkey, peeling potatoes, and he was struck by how this is this skill of the artist, she is so was realistic, yes, that one could confuse and think that this was a real live girl, and it impresses him on everything. life, yes , that is, he remembers this image all his life, in kyiv his mother buys him his first set of professional forms, in kyiv he enters the kyiv drawing school of mykola murashka, in kyiv he

enters the workshop of the professional artist mykola pemonenko for the first time, to whom he will later appeal in his works, and actually the central theme of his still, well, let's say not necessarily realistic, but objective painting, these are two peasant paintings. these are the 10s and then the end of the 20s, that is, a peasant for him, that ukrainian peasant, which he saw as a child is a certain , well, the main actor of his paintings, and, that is, he constantly turns to this theme, returns to it already mature, already after suprematism in this so-called supernaturalistic period of the late 20s, because this theme of his does not let go, but he believes that it remains relevant for him. paradise, the ideal that he sees for himself, he sees precisely in the village. next, of course, that is, we are talking about those things, now, that shaped malevich, that influenced him. next, it is very important

to what extent malevich influenced the ukrainian context, the ukrainian environment. and here it is very important for us, actually these 20s, when he returns to kyiv as an already established artist, and he starts teaching at the kyiv art institute, he actually reformats education, because his purpose is... not only to teach, but also if we were to give such methodical instructions, to help rebuild this system, because malevich, he was also a theoretician, and he built his own pedagogical system in art, yes, that is, in him, he falls into this kyiv environment, he communicates with the new generation, he publishes in his series of his latest articles, to explain what the new generation is, the new generation was the main magazine in the 20s in... throughout the soviet union, which was dedicated to modern art, published, it was published by mykhailo semenko, actually the leader of ukrainian futurism, who, even as a young poet, already knew about

malevich's suprematism and dedicated a number of suprapoetry to him, it is as if suprematism in poetry, that is, this connection between semenko and mimalevich, it generally has such durability in the decade, and in fact, at the end of the 20s, they were already communicating directly, and semenko invited malevich to be published in a new generation, here in this second book, which i want to show today, yaryna tsymbel actually publishes for the first time the proof that malevich had direct. .. my connection with the new generation, here is a letter from malevich to poltoratsky, in which malevich, for example, sends his greetings to semenkov, yes, that is, if we are talking about a certain circle of friends, yes, that is, friendly communication, some kind of such interaction , there is actually a connection with lesya ukrainka, because malevich teaches at the institute together with svetozar drahomanov, svetozar drahomanov is lesya ukrainka's cousin, he has a camera, he photographs objects and things and

objects. and malevich's paintings, actually there at malevich's request he sends it to certain magazines, yes, that is, this is an environment that communicates very closely, they have joint projects, they do something together, they dream of something there for the future, yes, that is, it is very an important factor when malevich was very closely inscribed in the ukrainian environment, again , his last everyday and personal the exhibition takes place in the kyiv art gallery in the 30th year, and it has... such a wild success there that extending it for a month, and and and then, if malevich hopes that these paintings will be sold and remain here and in ukraine and for ukrainians actually, that is , there are a lot of topics that connect and leave malevich embedded, he , as it were, sprouts in this context, and please tell us about this artillery, which is somehow amazing in the village of verbivka, where this artillery was fired. as

i understand alexandra exter, what was it for artillery and what did malevich have to do with it, yes, thank you for mentioning it, this is also a very important plot, in fact, if when malevich, yes, he did not live in ukraine, but this connection is still the same if it continued and continued , it is about an army in the village of verbivka, verbivka was the estate of natalya davydova, natalya davydova was actually the wife and son of a decembrist, she herself was from an ancient cossack family. family of gudym levkovych, and it must be said that this ancient cossack family, it also has its own strength and its history in them, traditionally, this family itself was connected with the creation of textiles and various crafts, they had a workshop that was engaged in paintings even in the times of the hetmanship, not paintings, i apologize, embroidery even in the times of the hetmanship, and here is natalya davydova under the wave of such modernity. of the dream trends

, as we would say, of that time, decides to open artil in his village and help the villagers, actually the residents of this village, find their own tool for making money, for the implementation of some creative business, it was fashionable then, many landowners created such artils, this cherkasy, sorry, yes, yes, this is now cherkasy, it is not far from smila, kamianka, these are beautiful places, i went there recently. with research, and i strongly advise everyone to go and see these places, they are incredible, and actually davydova herself is an artist, she is friends with alexandra exter, alexandra exter is another great figure of this time in kyiv, yes, because she actually she lived most of her life in kyiv and implemented her projects in kyiv, and here is oleksandra ekster, she is the art director of this article, she actually forms this concept

the concept, as we would say, yes to it. startup, and she invites various contemporary artists whom she knows from different cities of the soviet union, even then, and from, no, even then, the russian empire, sorry, because we are talking about the 15th year right now, yes, that is, actually, when this russian empire is already faltering, but still holding on, and ekster invites malevich, whom she also knows, and well, they communicate and meet at exhibitions. shared by malevich, creating his suprematism, initially gives his yakkis for embroidery to the village of verbivka, that is, before showing it at the famous 010 exhibition in petrograd in december 15 , he gives these sketches, probably somewhere at the end of summer or the beginning of autumn, because the exhibition of verbivka took place in october, that is, in a few months, these peasant women in the village of verbivka are embroidering.