the war criminal putin spoke to a commentator, not a journalist, carlson , in a language that no american understood at all, well, it's true, not every american is interested in the life of a lurik at breakfast, that is, it is possible that this is a wrong analogy, from the point of view, by the way, from the point of view seeing the texts spoken by zelenskyi, again, i have to admit, well, there were actually there, there were some simply beautiful historical texts. this is a fact, now you need to direct your work, what is called in the americans grassroots, it is this, this, this to sit next to everyone, that's what the americans told me, they say you need to sit next to every congressman, that is, just next to every congressman and talk to him in the language that he understands in his so-called district , then he says, in principle, you can get an additional... hold, therefore, at the moment, it is extremely

difficult work, and apart from speeches from high platforms, now the same difficult field work, field work, whether it can completely change all the moods, it is unlikely, but it can definitely help, because look, everyone is in the campaign periods listen, this year is completely unprecedented, half of the world's 4.2 billion population, well, they have the right to vote, we russians include them in this figure, no, no, we do not include them, because there are no elections there, there are reassignments. well , that is, in fact, we need, by and large, strategically, to finish our conversation, to survive the pre-election period and move on. you understand, i do not believe that we will have enough to survive the pre-election period, i believe that the challenges of the 24th year are no less than the challenges of the 22nd year. the 24th year is extremely difficult. i think there is a chance that we will receive the necessary funding in the 24th year, and... then in the 25th year, we need

to collect everything in a new way, starting with money, ending with military ammunition, and in fact prepare a counteroffensive in a new way, and in the 24th, we must not allow capture by russia of any other territories of ukraine. well, i think this is a very important signpost for the next period. i want to thank arseniy yatsenyuk, the head of the kyiv security forum, the prime minister of ukraine in 2014-2016, for participating in our broadcast. thank you, mr. arseny, for being with us, and we will continue literally. by for a few minutes, our broadcast is devoted to the second attack of russia on ukraine, mr. arseni, you absolutely rightly said that this is the second attack, we can talk about 10 years after the beginning of the russian attack, which has now entered such a large phase, i would say, stay with us, we will continue the conversation, there are 15% discounts on fervex in travel pharmacies. to you and savings. there are

15% discounts on rezi table in pharmacies plantain you and save. there are discounts on templegin tablets of 15% in the psylanyk pam and oskad pharmacies. 10 years of war, war for freedom, from the revolution of dignity to today's battles. if something happens to me, if... it doesn't happen to me, then they know that i died for the truth. 10 years of war, the war for our existence, this is the path that changed us. in the conditions of occupied territories, de-occupied territories, we have losses of the order of potential 7 million hectares of land, which have not been cultivated for two years. 10 years of war, war for the future, what price do we pay for it? 200 of our citizens were taken to russia. depopulation is not inevitable . intellectuals, specialists, patriots about

challenges, threats and our future in a special project for the 10th anniversary of the beginning of russia's armed aggression against ukraine, 10 years of the war for independence from february 18 on espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the serpent himself. the following shots may shock you. live news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season. exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. svoboda live, frankly and impartially. you draw conclusions themselves. verdict with serhiy rudenko. from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics. even more important topics, even more

top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, as well as feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day from... by phone survey, turn on and turn on, verdict with serhiy rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. we continue the saturday political club program, khrystyna yatskiv and vitaly portnikov. others leaders of the russian federation's large-scale invasion of ukraine, the tenth leader of military aggression against our state by the russians, and mr. vitaly put a lot the important question is why in 14th year they didn't dare to finish what they did in 2022, here's your take on this story? i think that they were really not ready for such a reaction that was in 2022 for another reason, which we

did not talk about, this reason is related to the fact that they believed in a political revenge, they absolutely had it. clear idea of ​​response to challenges like they had in 2004. in 2004, by and large, they acted in exactly the same paradigm with the first maidan, with which they acted in the second. and i think i told you, maybe i didn't tell you on the air, that in 2004 they tried to persuade the current president of ukraine, leonid kuchma, to move to one of the eastern regional centers, either kharkiv or donetsk. in order to supposedly hold a congress, not a congress, of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, a session of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, to be printed in one of the printing houses kharkiv or donetsk, issue of the government courier newspaper, to hold the inauguration of the new president of ukraine viktor yanukovych, this was a russian proposal that was expressed at

a very high level, and leonid kuchma, according to my sources, categorically disagreed with this proposal and said that the president ukraine should be in kyiv, well, it should be simple... that leonid kuchma differed from viktor yanukovych in his precise understanding of the nature of power, it was simple for him, you know, this is something that cannot be learned from leonid kuchba it was, it may be possible, it was possible not to notice that he had it, although it was impossible to notice somewhere, we all noticed it, but no matter how one treated him, someone treated him positively, someone treated him negatively, but what this politician is aware of what power is, it was clear from the first months of his tenure as ukrainian leader. of the state, and that is why this scenario did not go the way it did when yanukovych fled from kyiv, ugh, but we see that they were preparing for the same thing, for this same paradigm, and i think that if them

it worked out, then it would have gone exactly as it did with yanukovych, there would have been no session of the verkhovna rada, it would have started in chaos, it is not clear where the legitimate government is, what part of the territory already is. split off, for this purpose the northern danenetsk congress was held prematurely, and it was already all ready, that is, in 2004 it was all ready, but since they did not succeed in destroying the legitimacy of the government, and they , as it were, themselves, because they simultaneously participated in the round table, the same people who offered kuchma to leave participated in at a round table in the mariyan palace, roughly like this, i apologize, as it seems to me in 1918, the future head of the council of people's commissars... khristiyyan rakovsky of the ukrainian ssr came here on behalf of volodymyr lenin to conduct negotiations with the head of the government of the ukrainian state, pavlo skoropatsky, and at the same time held secret negotiations with the former head of the government of the ukrainian people's republic, volodymyr vinnichenko, about the overthrow of skoropatskyi, it all happened at the same time , and as you can see, from the 18th year to 2004, nothing

changed, and from 2004 to 2014, nothing changed it has changed, we live all the time as if in the same scenario, we walk in the same political circle, so when. succeeded in undermining the legitimacy of the government, then another model was chosen, to bring the situation to a rematch, ugh, and this rematch really took place in 2010, when viktor yanukovych became the president of ukraine, that is, he took the place that the kremlin was preparing for him, starting from 200 there for 3 years, in 2014, there was such a paradigm of thinking, but sketchy. arseniy yatsenyuk spoke absolutely accurately about her, they believed that there would be chaos, that the government was already in power it is illegitimate that even under the conditions of this government, which will be, even if it succeeds , it will be possible to reach a scenario of revenge, and they saw in this scenario the year 2019, what

the scenario of 2019 looked like, it is also completely understandable, just like in 2010 , was a party of enemies of russia. great enemies led by viktor yushchenko, he was marginalized, including by russian efforts, especially after 2008, after the war in georgia, in fact yushchenko... toyed with the possibility of, let's say, a foreign policy maneuver, because he took a very clear a position that was not appreciated by our compatriots at the time, i believe that we should all apologize for this 100 times, but viktor andriyovych had his 70th birthday, today we want to congratulate him and say that we are sorry, and on behalf of ourselves, on behalf of those who would not like to apologize, we understand how far his position is. 2008 was far-sighted and statist, as was the position on nat. and it is very unfortunate that these, i would say, value

orientations of the president of ukraine, the third president of ukraine, were not properly appreciated by all of us then, because maybe we would have been different situation than me, but this is history, so it means , too, then there was such a conditional moderate party of yulia tymoshenko, which seemed to have the possibility of dialogue with russia, but it had the possibility of dialogue with the west and it was exposed. as an alternative, uh, in the russian sense that there are two moderate alternatives, but our vitya, well, yes, as a result, it worked, the marginalization of yushchenko also worked, and such, i would say, difficult work with the image of tymoshenko worked, that she seems to be able to negotiate, but still somehow unreliable, and if you if you want something reliable, then choose yanukovych, he is a master, although yushchenko and tymoshenko... during their tenure as president and prime minister of ukraine demonstrated such a level, as i said,

of economic growth in the country that had never been observed even before nor after them, and speaking against this background, oh, look, strong manager yanukovych, it was just some kind of madness, because these people were strong managers at that time, i ’ll tell you why, this is how a boy’s mind is perceived, for yushchenko and tymoshenko a dollar from five to eight, and eight for yanukovych. but remember, but remember the level of salaries, remember for the liquidation of debts, remember all this is the level of purchasing power of citizens, we have never lived as much as under yushchenko, never after that, well, they started there after the 14th year , growth began, but because yanukovych brought the situation to the big master brought the situation to the pen, well, okay, so let's leave this story in the 10th year and say 19 19. what was the idea, we need to marginalize the party of war so that ukrainians vote for

the party of peace, we can't do that anymore to bring pro-russian forces to power, frankly, but we will try to demonstrate that we are a party of peace, that we will negotiate with the parties, the same idea was that we, we do not negotiate with ukraine, and we do not negotiate with poroshenko, because he not constructive, but only you choose someone constructive, everything will be over immediately. and it was an outright bluff on the part of putin, but when it turned out in 2019 that ukrainians basically agree with this logic, then what a party of war, remember that these parties of war were a lot since the 14th year, at first there was the right sector, the main party of the war, remember, yarosh, then a new party of the war appeared, the people's front, yatsenyuk turchynov, it was a party of the war, then it turned out that it was not a party of the war, and the party of war is petro poroshenko's bloc, which initially acted as a moderate political force in this structure

, which means that it is also a party of war, and now what is the main party of war, the zelensky servant of the people, is the same party of war, that is, they appoint some political force in ukraine all the time, and as a rule this political force at first he tries to conduct a dialogue, well, he doesn't, but relatively speaking, turchyna in yatsenyuk, when they came to power, tried to talk with them, and you are a party of war and a coup d'état. the junta is everything, then president poroshenko started talking to them, who just now saw that they wanted not to talk, so that everything would be given to them, these negotiations are over, you are all a war party, then zelenskyi started talking, it also turned out that he is not ready to sacrifice territories and national sovereignty itself was the announcement, that is, the party of war, this is the party, which is simply not ready to comply with any whims of the kremlin, well, that means they actually, why do i mention the 19th year, they introduced the matter to a political roar... well, really, why should you make some kind of military adventure,

especially when everything has already happened to you one way or another, when you can get everything by political means, that is, the idea of ​​war turned out to be absolutely relevant after the 19th year, you know why, because they did not really understand what kind of revenge could still be made, as if this the revenge took place, the war party was marginalized, the president was elected by the votes 73% of the voters, the one who wants peace, he still does not capitulate, even if we imagine that we will overstay this president, how long is it four years, yes, or five, five, ugh. by the 24th year, and with such a huge level of support , there are no guarantees that he will not be elected after 5 years, well, let him not be voted for by 73% in the second round, and not even 50 in the first, and not even 50 in the first , but he can move again in the second round, just get 45% of the votes, or 51,

it will not be easier for putin, because it will be exactly the the president, with whom he has not already agreed, means that putin will have to wait 10... years, and i 'm sorry, how old will putin be, relatively speaking, imagine that if there was no war now, there would be such a situation, here it is frozen, conditionally speaking, with constant demands to fulfill the minsk agreements, with the construction of roads there, with the continuation of the process of european integration, etc., and zelensky would be re-elected now, despite the fact that there would be a strong opponent, which means that in 2020 he would be he would finish his second term. how old would you be, comrade? putin? 78 or 79? you understand, this is such a logic , it means that you cannot wait, that is, the second, third possibility may not be a political revenge, because this possibility of a revenge in the 19th year failed, and here is the answer to the question why they did not attack in the 14th year,

because they had a simple program of actions, and besides, it was considered all the time, this is also an important point, that through the annexation of crimea and the war in donbas, they set a clear barrier to the european euro-atlantic integration of ukraine. and again somewhere around in the 20th and 21st years, they began to have doubts that this barrier was working, because the barrier supposedly existed, and talks about nato and the european union continued as if it did not exist. and i have already reminded you more than once of president biden's statement that the question of euro-atlantic integration of ukraine is not a question of the occupied territories, but a question of its compliance with nato standards. this will be a very dangerous formula for putin. ugh. so that's why it didn't happen in the 14th year, because of course, if you, you understand how much is needed to spend on war, here it seems that

everything should be spent exclusively on the political process, on destabilization, on discrediting. uh , politicians to support against pro-russian sentiments on russian tv channels, plus there was medvedchuk, who believed that he convinced putin that everything would work out, as in the 10th year, because every day of persuasion is billions of dollars of business, and here it turns out, that it doesn't work, that is, there is no understanding of what it is, what it is... how to work with it further, and after 2019 this process already begins, it is also quite simple, first a meeting in the norman format, an attempt to impose one's terms, uh, and it's not even a question of why it doesn't work, it becomes obvious that putin

and zelensky live in some different worlds, i won't say who in... where is this world of realism, i think that putin definitely does not live in a world of realism, of any kind, but it's clear that they just don't meet there, they look at each other, but talk like, you know, like people , who sing in the opera api from different performances, well, one sings, the other sings, listen, i’m sorry, but we have a rigaletta, you’re singing now from lucia delememur, ugh, and it’s very strange, and maybe it ’s a ballet in general, and it becomes an obvious moment for... putin, so he, by the way, expels you surkov, because this whole surkov plan, crimea, as a trap, destabilization, revenge, capitulation, does not work, and then a cossack appears with a different program, a trap, ugh, destabilization, chaos and intervention in a ...

destabilized country, and it doesn't work again because every time a trap is set, let's create one there to the council of representatives of ukraine, the dpr, the lpr , let's sell the joint inspection, a very strong reaction from society and from western partners begins, and the authorities themselves begin to realize that putin is driving them into a trap and immediately refuses even those decisions that seem to be agreed upon at... negotiations, and this gives putin a reason to say that zelenskyi betrayed his voters, although in principle zelenskyi absolutely acts as the voter wanted, the voter did not vote for the capitulation of ukraine, will he really vote for zelenskyi? no, well, no, that's why. and putin does not understand this, in any case, it is clear that this trap does not work, and putin is less and less enthusiastic about the fact that

this recipe will also work, and you remember that every day the cossack negotiations become more and more more and more irritated, not yet, not only because ukrainians do not agree to his scenario. and because for the second time in his political career, when he believes that he is achieving the maximum result, he turns out to be at the bottom, the first time was when there was the famous kozik plan for moldova, kozak had already sewn into stupidity in such a story, when he actually created a plan that turned moldova into a satellite state of the russian federation, and this plan went down in history as a cossack plan, and on the day when putin was supposed to fly to chisinau, ratify his plan, the then president of moldova, volodymyr voronin called... and told putin, and you couldn't, volodymyr volodymyrovych, sit at home. the president of moldova, the president of russia, can you imagine what putin said to kozak then. and i want to,

we can't try it, and this is the second time, the same moment, and by the way, where is kozak now? when we last saw and heard kozak with you, at a meeting of the security council, when the question of recognizing the so-called independence of the dpr-lpr was discussed, then he... was never seen publicly again, what happens to the person who is the deputy head of the presidential administration of russia, actually disappeared from the radars, because this is payback for actually the second failed task, this is always the case with the chekists, uh, and it is absolutely obvious that after this is about kyiv, and they abandoned this plan precisely because they convinced themselves that they would be able to solve it. it's a matter of less blood, yeah , that's all, plus nord stream-2, they really built it then and didn't want to tear it down, it's a very important point, i forgot about

it, they believed in 2014 that europe would not is economically dependent on russia, and that then it can be quite tough if there is an occupation of ukraine, uh, for... 2022, as you remember, just a few weeks before the attack was completed nord stream 2, remember, actually according to the calendar, i wrote, it seems to me 2020 20, that as soon as it is completed, a big war will start in europe, i wrote even in the german press, and all my german colleagues told me, that this is a complete hoax, that everything will be the other way around, and that, by the way, you and i, khrystyna, should not forget this moment. the very construction of these pipelines, it was also part of this reluctance to attack in 14 because they didn't understand what to do if it was damaged

the ukrainian gas transportation system, they simply did not have real routes then, supplying such a quantity of gas to europe, which was chartered, uh, and in this regard , they were aware that kyiv could even blackmail them with this story, by 2022... the year of such opportunities is no longer we had, because completely all the gas that went to europe, completely 100%, could go outside the ukrainian pipeline, do you remember that even after the damage to the nord stream one, putin said, yes, we can through the nord stream two, he well, he's just not whole certified, they believed that the europeans would agree to everything even without certification, it was a wrong assessment, ugh, well, i'll just remind you that the ukrainian gas transportation system still remains in... in the game, on a minimum scale, as far as it can be, and i will also remind you that nord stream 2, the story with this project, it has, so to speak

, come to an end, and in fact the civilized world is still searching, and how did it happen, who can be involved in this case at all, large-scale project, gas needle, as only called the northern stream-2, but when we talk about it, we are talking about... not only geopolitics, we are not talking exclusively about the economy or the energy stability of the entire continent, we are talking about the military aggression of the russian federation against ukraine and, in the future, against others european countries. mr. vitaly, you mentioned moldova and transnistria, a bit of strange information slipped in that on february 28, the so-called deputies of the so-called transnistria will address. to the russian federation 28 28 yes on february 28, they will apply for acceptance and so on and so forth, we have

nothing to talk about yet, first of all, because our troops... vyks and our intelligence say that they do not have objective data to state this fact, but does it look like something real to you at all, given the military situation in the black sea equator, well, is there any way for russia to carry out what it did with ukraine, georgia and before, and it does not need to do anything for it , if this question is only whether such a decision will be made, well, the territory of transnistria, yes called transnistria. yes, they are exporting something , they are according to the law of moldova, but listen, what if we did not have a situation when some goods were exported from the occupied territories and they were also completely subject to the law of ukraine, and we did not control this territory, i apologize, it can continue and further, so this is another question, can the federal assembly of the russian

federation make a decision? on the creation of the transnistrian moldavian republic as a subject of the federation, the answer is yes, if vladimir putin wants to make such a decision, then it will be approved, but can they exercise any actual control over this territory? well, they have internal control, well, yes, they have internal control, and there is a problem, it is the same as it is in... us, when we, say, over there, liberate certain territories in donetsk region, in luhansk region, from the point from the point of view of the russians, this is an encroachment on their territorial integrity, we are the occupiers, we are the occupiers, and they may want to put the republic of moldova in exactly such a situation, of course, but you cannot, first of all,

forget about any. peaceful reunification homeland before the presidential and parliamentary elections in moldova. currently , president kisando has the highest rating, but he has opponents and competitors, but one way or another, president kasando always advocates this concept, which was advocated by previous moldovan presidents: the peaceful separation of the homeland. well, i'm sorry, this and this story with the recognition of transnistria, or recognition, you can simply recognize independence as abkhazia. there are two models here, you can annex, or you can recognize an independent state, it ends, you understand, especially with annexation, which can be a peaceful reunification with the territory that is a subject of the russian federation, this is the transformation of the territory from a conflicted, uh, disputed one, but we do not like it when they are called donetsk, luhansk, zaporizhia and kherson regions and crimea disputed territories, but from the point

of view. of a real, i would say, uh, conflict between russia and ukraine, it is so, because these are territories claimed by both states, one from the point of view of international law, the other from the point of view of violation of international law, but it claims these territories, russia does not claim transnistria, it does not claim abkhazia, south ossetia, it promises to protect their sovereignty, it claims crimea and the donetsk-luhansk and... zaporizhia regions, because in any negotiations the russians always they will say: excuse me, the ukrainians are occupying our lands, this is delusional, this is schizophrenia, but this is a dispute from the point of view of students of negotiation, that is not why we say that there is no other method, except by force, ugh, and now transnistria finds itself in such a situation , moldova, that candidate member of the european union, and we understand that it is impossible, cannot...