or less or get nothing, so the first reason why the wave of farmers' protests rose is the fight for money from the european union, the second reason why the wave rose, new environmental standards were introduced there, and starting with pesticides and ending there with the so -called green deal, which ursula funderleiden just held, so it increased the burden on the agricultural sector, and that's why they rebelled against their governments on the issue, which means we need to reduce... the burden on the agricultural sector. third, the third is the ukrainian factor. i watched the media internal what they do. so, they write, for example, that the european bank for development and reconstruction finances ukrainian agricultural companies. they gave a figure that during the past year, the european bank for development and reconstruction financed around 1 billion dollars in total for all ukrainian companies, and this gives ukrainian companies an opportunity due to the fact that the first one is cheap. money, and the second is that there are no such

environmental standards here, let’s call them that, and other agricultural production standards, yes, there are none of the green agreement, selling cheap products in the member states of the european union, this was taken to the flag and carried away, so look, in this situation, exactly what needs to be done, exactly, it must be done behind closed doors, i emphasize behind closed doors, not at the border , behind closed doors to immediately have these very kind of... calm, but, well, even angry, you know, and purposeful talks about how to solve this problem today, and not just today, but what we're going to have tomorrow, because this problem will be ten times more difficult under the time of negotiations on ukraine's accession to the european union, therefore, in principle, we have already faced the fact that ukraine's accession to the eu is real, it is a high competition and it is a difficult struggle, please tell us that our government... delegation has arrived

to the border, and the polish one did not, you were surprised at all, i was not surprised at all that the polish did not come, look, i did not surprise you that ours came, what of these two events, i say culturally, it did not surprise me, that poland did not come, that's why i will so cultured, you know, i will not, i will not criticize the government, i will say that it is extremely important now that the ukrainian government delegation comes to warsaw. and together with the new prime minister donald tusk, who has a very complex coalition, and you have to look realistically, he has a coalition of three parties, one of these parties is a peasant party, the peasant party derives the name of the peasant party from the word village, and if the village, you know, agrarians, and if agrarians, then in principle it means that from an internal political point of view, he also there are questions, and therefore it is extremely important that they in warsaw find a way to come to an agreement, it is very difficult. i can say this not from books, because

i well remember how i conducted negotiations on the accession of ukraine to the world trade organization, may god have mercy, but i know for sure that if you approach professionally with arguments, this battle can definitely be won. in principle, how much can we now hope that western countries will reformat their support for ukraine, what to do with it, do you understand, greetings? which i see now as the biggest problem including, by the way, for agrarians, that we have elections for the european parliament in june, look, and this completely plays into the hands of all right-wing radical and isolationist forces, let's call them that , first of all in europe, well, just like that isolationists, this is the well-known policy of franklin delano roosevelt, we know roosevelt only as the winner of the second world war, we forgot that the united states was. isolationists and generally refused,

a special act was passed in the congress of the united states, which prohibited the supply weapons to europe, on the initiative of the branch , absolutely yes, ugh, i don't remember which year, 33rd or 39th, i don't want to make a mistake now, yes, that is, we forget about it, so in principle what i see now, the trends are not good, but this trend is called democracy, and now democracy, world democracy is in chaos, that's what i see. the chaos of world democracy, on the one hand, i see a certain unity of world totalitarianism, but all is far from lost, and i emphasize once again that the victory of democracy today lies only in one plane, gains in ukraine and the fall of democracy, i think so, maybe someone will say that i overestimate the role of ukraine, no, i do not overestimate it yet, and the fall of the free world now lies exclusively in the plane: will ukraine win or lose? and therefore, when

they help us, they help not only us, they help them, every one of them, because they cannot even imagine the fall of the western world. what will happen, that is, these are generally changes in the financial system, economic flows, foreign trade, all these are other players, this is a blow to the dollar, you understand, then that is, this is a blow to industrial production, this must be explained in the united states to voters, republicans, and by examples , including explaining that look, thanks to this money that you did not allocate, and if you allocated it, you would get workers places, you would get additional taxes, look at all the world's arms companies, look at the e-e level of growth of stocks of companies that make weapons, lockheed martin is an american, 70% stock rose, german ryan metal rose 300, 368, there is almost something there

four times, that is, it has a direct effect for them, they just need to explain it correctly on their fingers, go to channels and fox cnn. and in principle, in this way, drag their electoral part over themselves. well, let me ask you how you would rate the level of healthy lobbying of ukraine in general in the world. we are not talking exclusively about those who are now officials, about ukrainian politicians, er, do we have enough professionals and is the quality of their work sufficient in this sense? it's not news that i'm not a fan at all volodymyr zelenskyi. but i must point out that. that during the last two years he used his qualities, which he had , the qualities of a speaker, the qualities of an actor , in a way that no one would have used, look, this is a fact, and we must, we must both recognize and respect the facts, and the way he worked as a tribune

, he definitely deserves respect, now we are looking at the second part, that is, the president of the tribunes, this is in principle, it is generally normal, but... the executive part, well, it needs realism, pragmatism, professionalism, ugh, right there there is also the question of how much the west hears our arguments, maybe we still haven't learned to speak with the west in the language of the west's interests, we are just now with you in principle, you know, almost like a message box worked out, that is, we have to speak with them in a language that they understood, but the military... criminal putin spoke to a commentator, not journalist carlson, in a language that no american understood at all, well, it’s true, not every american is interested in lurik’s life at breakfast, that is, maybe it’s wrong analogy, from the point of view, by the way, from the point of view

of the texts that zelensky spoke, but again, i must admit, well, there were, there were, there were some simply beautiful historical texts. this is a fact, now we have to direct our work to what the americans call the grassroots, that is, the grassroots, the grassroots, the grassroots, that is , sit next to everyone, here is what the americans told me, they say, you have to sit next to every congressman, that is, just next to every congressman, and speak to him in the language which he understood in his so-called district, then he says, in principle, you can get additional support. therefore, at the moment, it is extremely difficult work, and apart from speeches from high platforms, now the same difficult field work, field work, whether it can completely change all the moods, it is unlikely, but it can definitely help, because look, everyone is in the campaign periods

, listen, this year is completely unprecedented, half of the world's 4.2 billion population, well, they have the right to vote, we russians include them in this figure, no, no, we do not include them, because there are no elections there, there are reassignments. well that is, in fact, we need by and large strategically, if we finish our conversation, to survive the pre-election period and move on. you understand, i do not believe that we will have enough to survive the pre-election period, i believe that the challenges of the 24th year are no less than the challenges of the 22nd year. the 24th year is extremely difficult, i believe that there is a chance that we will receive the necessary funding for the 24th year, later in... the year we need to collect everything in a new way, starting with money, ending with military ammunition, and actually prepare in a new way counter-offensive, in the 24th to prevent capture by russia of any other territories of ukraine. well, i think this is very important, just as the next period is crucial. i want

to thank arseniy yatsenyuk, the head of the kyiv security forum, the prime minister of ukraine in 2014-2016, for participating in our broadcast. thank you, mr. arseny, for being with us, and we will continue literally in a few minutes . years after the beginning of the russian attack. which has passed into such a big phase, i would say , stay with us, we will continue the conversation, hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda, top guests every day, this is the shipping district, kherson, live inclusion, we are somewhere in the vicinity. we tell bakhmut the main thing on weekdays at 9:00.

every week, the saturday political club helps. to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv

and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. do you want understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. we continue the program. khrystyna yatskiv and vitaly portnikov. the second anniversary of the russian federation's large-scale invasion of ukraine, the tenth anniversary of the general military aggression against our state by the russians, and mr. vitaly asked a very important question, why in the 14th year they did not dare to finish what they did in 2022. what is your view on this story? i think they really weren't ready for that the reaction that... was in 2022 for another reason, which we did not talk about, this

reason is related to the fact that they believed in a political revenge, they had an absolutely clear idea of ​​​​responding to challenges, such that in of them was in 2004, in 2004, by and large, they acted in exactly the same paradigm with the first maidan, with which they acted in the second, and i think that i told you. no longer on the air, he told that in 2004, the current president of ukraine, leonid kuchma, was also tried to be persuaded to move to one of the eastern regional centers or kharkiv or donetsk in order to allegedly hold a congress, not a congress, of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, a session of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, to print an issue of the government courier newspaper in one of the printing houses of kharkiv or donetsk, to hold the inauguration of the new president of ukraine, viktor yanukovych, it was russia. a proposal that was made at a very high level, and leonid kuchma, according to my

sources, categorically disagreed with this proposal and said that the president of ukraine should be in kyiv. well, you just have to understand that leonid kuchma differed from viktor yanukovych in his precise understanding of the nature of power. it was simple for him, you know, that's the kind of thing you can't learn. leonid kuchma had it, it is possible, it is possible, it was possible not to notice that he has it, although something is not to be noticed. we noticed it, no matter how he was treated, some treated him positively, some treated him negatively, but the fact that this politician is aware of what power is, was clear from the first months of his tenure as the head of the ukrainian state, and so this scenario didn't go as well he left at the moment when yanukovych fled from kyiv, ugh, but we can see that they were preparing for the same thing, for this...

there would be no session of the verkhovna rada there, chaos began, it is not clear where the legitimate power, some part the territory had already split off, for this purpose the prematurely eaten north of danenetsko was held, and it was already all ready, that is, in 2004 it was all ready, but since they did not succeed in destroying the legitimacy of the government, and they, as it were... because they simultaneously participated in the round table, the same people who proposed to kuchma to leave, took part in a round table in the marian palace, roughly so, i 'm sorry, as it seems to me in 1918. the future head of the council of people's commissars of the ukrainian ssr khristiyan rakovskyi came here on behalf of volodymyr lenin to hold talks with the head of the government of the ukrainian state, pavlo skarapatsky, and at the same time held secret talks with the former head of the government of the ukrainian people's republic , volodymyr vinnichenko, the failure of skoropatsky, it all happened at the same time and as you can see from 18 from 2004 to 2004, nothing

changed, and from 2004 to 2014 nothing has changed, we live all the time as if we are walking in the same scenario one at a time in the same political circle, which means that when it was not possible to undermine the legitimacy of the government, then another model was chosen, to bring the situation to a rematch, ugh, and this the revenge really took place in 2010, when viktor yanukovych became the president of ukraine, that is, he took the place that the kremlin, the kremlin itself, had prepared for him, starting with 200 there in the 3rd year, in 2014 there was such a paradigm of thinking. but arseniy yatsenyuk spoke about her sketchily, absolutely accurately, they believed that there will be chaos, that the government is no longer legitimate, that even in the conditions of this government, which will be, even if it manages, it will be possible to reach a scenario of revenge, and they saw in this scenario of revenge the year 2019, what

the scenario of 2019 looked like 2010 is also completely understandable, as in 2010, there was a party of... enemies of russia, great enemies led by viktor yushchenko, he was marginalized, including by russian, efforts, especially after 2008, after the war in georgia, in fact yushchenko lost the opportunity, let's say, of a foreign policy maneuver, because he took a very clear position , which was not appreciated by his compatriots at the time, i believe that we all have to apologize for this... 100 times, but viktor andriyovych had his 70th birthday, today we want to congratulate him and say that we are sorry , and on our own behalf, on behalf of those who would not like to apologize, we understand how far-sighted and statist his position in 2008 was, as well as his position on nato, and it is very unfortunate that these are, i would say, the value

orientations of the president of ukraine, the third president of ukraine, were not worthy of everyone then we will appreciate, because maybe we would be in a different situation than. but this is history, that means, also, then, that means there was such a conditional moderate party of yulia tymoshenko, which seemed to have the possibility of dialogue with russia, but it had the possibility of dialogue with the west, and it was presented as an alternative, well, in the russian sense, that there are such two moderate alternatives, but our vitya, well, as a result, it worked, the marginalization of yushchenko also worked, it also worked... it is not easy to work with the image of tymoshenko, he said, as if she can negotiate, but still somewhat unreliable, and if you want something reliable, then choose yanukovych, he is a master, although yushchenko and tymoshenko, during their tenure as president and prime minister of ukraine, demonstrated such a level, i would say economic growth in the country, which

was never observed either before or after them, and to say against this background, oh, look, yanukovych is a strong businessman, it's just... it was kind of crazy, because these people were just strong managers at that time , i to you i'll tell you why, this is how a boy 's mind is perceived, under yushchenko and tymoshenko, the dollar was from five to eight, and under yanukovych, the figure of eight held very well, but remember the level of salaries, we will remember for the liquidation of debts, remember all this the very level of purchasing power of citizens, we never they didn't live like zayushchenko, after that they never, well, there... they started after the 14th year , the growth began, but because yanukovych brought the situation to, the big owner brought the situation to a handle, well, okay, so let's leave this story in 10- year and let's say 19 in the 19th century, there was an idea, we need to marginalize the party of war so that ukrainians vote for the party of peace, so we can no longer bring pro-russian forces to power,

frankly, but we will try to demonstrate that we are for the party of peace, that we will... to negotiate with the parties, yes , the same idea was that we, we do not negotiate with ukraine, and we do not negotiate with poroshenko, because he is not constructive, as long as you choose someone constructive, everything will be over immediately, and it was an outright bluff on the part of putin, but when in 2019 it turned out that ukrainians in principle they agree with this logic, then the party of war, remember that these... that this is not a party of war, but the party of war is petro poroshenko's bloc, which initially acted as a moderate political force in this structure, so it is also a party of war , and now what is the main party of the war, the zelensky servant

of the people, this is the party of the war, that is, they appoint some political force in ukraine all the time, and as a rule, this political force first tries to conduct a dialogue, well , no, but relatively speaking, a turk in yatsenyuk when they came to power they tried with them to talk and... you are a party of war and a coup d'état, the junta is all that, then, it means, president poroshenko started talking to them , when he saw that they wanted not to talk, so that everything would be given to them, these negotiations are over, you are all a party of war , then zelenskyi started talking, it also turned out that he is not ready to sacrifice the territories and the national sovereignty itself was declared, that is, the party of war is the party that is simply not ready to fulfill any whims of the kremlin, well, that means in fact they, why i mention about the 19th year, they are about political revenge, well, really, why should you do some kind of military adventure, especially when everything has already

happened to you one way or another, when you can get everything politically, that is, the idea of ​​war turned out to be absolutely relevant after the 19th year, you know why, because they didn’t really understand what kind of revenge could still be made, it ’s as if this revenge took place, the war party was marginalized, the president was elected... by the votes of 73% of the voters, one who wants peace, he still does not capitulate, even if let's imagine that we wait for this president, how many four years, yes, or five, five, uh, until the 24th year, and with such a huge level of support, there is no guarantee that he will not be overthrown in 5 years, well let 73% vote for him in the second round, and not even 50 in the first. 50 in the first round, but he can move again in the second round, just get 45% of the votes , there or 51, it will not be easier for putin, because it will be the very president with whom he has not already

agreed, which means that putin will have to wait 10 years, and i'm sorry, how old will putin be, relatively speaking, imagine that there would be no war now, there would be such a situation, but it 's frozen, relatively speaking, with constant demands to fulfill the minsk agreements, with the construction of roads there with... continuation of the process of european integration, etc., and zelenskyi would be re-elected now, despite the fact that he would be a strong opponent, which means that he would finish his second term in 2020, how old would comrade putin be, 78 or 79, you see, this is such a logic, so you can't wait, that is secondly, there may not be a third opportunity for a political revenge, because... this opportunity for revenge in the 19th year failed, and here is the answer to the question why they did not attack in the 14th year, because they had a simple program of actions, and besides

, it was considered all the time, this is also an important point, that through the annexation of crimea and the war in donbas, they put a clear barrier in front of the european euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, and again somewhere around. in the 20th and 21st years , they began to have doubts that this barrier was working, because the barrier was supposedly there, and the conversations about nato and about the european union continued as if it did not exist, and i have already reminded you several times of president biden's statement that the issue of the euro-atlantic integration of ukraine is not a question of the occupied territory, it is a question of its compliance with nato standards, this was a very dangerous formula for putin, ugh , so that's why... that's why it didn't happen in the 14th year, because of course, if you, you understand how much you need to spend on the war, it seems like you need to spend everything exclusively on the political process, on

destabilization, on discrediting patriotic politicians, for support against pro-russian sentiments, on russian tv channels, plus there was medvedchuk, who believed that he had convinced putin that everything would work out, as in the 10th year, because every day of persuasion. this is billions of dollars of business, and here it turns out that it does not work, that is, there is no understanding of what it is, what it is, how to work with it further, and after 2019 this process already begins, it is also quite simple, first a meeting in to the norman format, an attempt to impose on... its conditions, and it's not even a question of what it does not work, it becomes obvious that putin and zelensky live in some different worlds. i

won't say who is where in this world of realism, i think that putin definitely does not live in a world of realism, any kind, but it is clear that they just do not meet there, they look at each other, but they talk like, you know, like people who sing in an opera, arias from different plays, well, one sings, the other sings, listen, i'm sorry, but we have a rigaletta, you're singing now from luciamur, it's very strange, and maybe it's in general. and this becomes an obvious moment for putin, so he, by the way, you expel surkov, because this whole surkov plan, crimea, as a trap, destabilization, revenge, capitulation, does not work, and then a cossack appears with a different program, a trap, ugh, destabilization, chaos

and... intervention in a destabilized country , and it doesn't work again, because every time a trap is set, and let's create some council of representatives of ukraine, the dpr, the lpr, let's sell a joint inspection, a very strong reaction begins on the part of society and on the part of western partners, and the government itself begins to realize that putin is her drives him into a trap and immediately refuses even those decisions. which seem to be agreed upon during the negotiations, and this gives putin a reason to say that zelenskyi betrayed his voters, although in principle zelenskyi absolutely acts as the voter wanted, the voter did not vote for the capitulation of ukraine, will he really vote for zelenskyi? no, well, that's why putin doesn't understand it either. in any case, it is clear that this trap is not working, and putin is less and less enthusiastic about the fact that this recipe

is too. works, and you remember that every day cossack negotiations are becoming more and more irritated, not only because ukrainians do not agree to his scenario, but because for the second time, in his political career, when he believes that he is achieving the maximum result, it turns out at the bottom, the first time was when i heard kozik's famous plan for moldova, kozik was already stupid in such a story when he... actually created a plan that turned moldova into a satellite state of the russian federation, and this plan went down in history as the cossack's plan, and on the day when putin had to fly to chisinau to ratify his plan, the then president of moldova, volodymyr voronin, called putin and said, "you couldn't sit at home, vladimir volodymyrovych , the president of moldova, the president of russia, can you imagine what putin said to kozak then, and i want to, we can't do it" to recite, and this is the second time, the same. and by the way, where

is kozak now, when was the last time you and i saw and heard kozak at the meeting of the security council, when the issue of recognizing the so-called independence of the dpr, lpr, then his it has never been publicly known what is happening to the person who is the deputy head of the administration of the president of russia, has actually disappeared from the radar, because this is payback for actually the second failed task, which is always the case with the cheka. happens, uh, and it's quite obvious that after this story doesn't come out, there is a decision to activate that plan, which by the way was in 14, uh, there was a plan for a big attack, just no, it just wasn't activated , because we mentioned the meeting of the national security and defense council, i think that at this meeting, i i don’t know, but this particular plan was discussed in the 14th year, which was then implemented in

2010. the 22nd year, and i tried to find out and understand from my sources at that time, who were still in moscow, i called a member of the nsdc at that time , and they said that for the information that i could somehow piece together from all the fragments that i have, there would not be a big attack, but even then they said that a plan was being prepared with an assault on the government quarter with a bombardment of kyiv, ugh, and with occupation of the entire territory. countries in the east, south and east of kiev approximately, and they are from this plan was abandoned precisely because they convinced themselves that they would be able to solve this issue with less blood, well, that's all, plus nord stream-2, they really built it then and didn't want to disrupt it, it's very important moment, i forgot about him, they think...