nevertheless , a significant part of the citizens of ukraine still associate themselves and their religious feelings and their social relations with this church, and what is no less important, a significant part of the people close to the political class, i.e. this church, the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, for a long time was very... closely integrated into the ukrainian elite, connected with the political class, with the economic class and, so to speak, subjecting it to repression, some kind of political , er, it is to step over oneself, through friendships and so on. uh, on the other hand, there is, i think, the expectation that the problem will solve itself. but

this way, you know, gradually, without sudden movements , the communities will gradually move, the connection with moscow will be lost on the initiative, perhaps of the church itself, well, that is, not to cut down immediately, but somehow to let it go in an evolutionary way, it is obvious that in this situation this the tactics and strategy are wrong, and there is every reason to simply ban... some elements of the state registration of the respective communities and the corresponding structure, and without interfering in canonical issues there, in church life, simply so to speak, to express in this way the attitude of the state towards certain legal entities. such a decision, it lies on the surface, but it, well, obviously , has not yet been dared, or there are no people who would... accept it in, so to speak, in

the leadership of the state. mr. igor, do you think that delaying the resolution of this issue will have consequences already after our victory, because as i understand it, there will be no resolution of this issue before the end of the war, and what is the threat to ukraine, well, it will definitely have consequences, and these and these consequences will be negative, why, because we are by and large... leaving a structure, not a religious one, not even a church one, i will remind you that the church is by and large an institution of civil society , if we approach it formally, and it should also, well, in the context of registration there and performing certain actions of a legal or physical nature, it should live according to the laws that are in ukraine, so we risk simply leaving a structure that really well me i will not say that it will be anti-ukrainian, but it will definitely not be pro-ukrainian. and

to some extent it will remain pro-russian, since russia and the russian orthodox church, it uses this connection, well, with a political, socio-economic purpose, a humanitarian purpose, and accordingly it will continue to hold us by these hooks and tie us to a certain extent to the russian federation, this is one, and secondly, it will remain, this structure will remain that enclave or that tool, with the help of which they will influence in that including on certain fronts of our political elite , we can even see it now, some of them are not at all afraid to take pictures there with representatives of this church, they demonstratively put their connection with it on the shield publicly there, because they understand that it it may bring them certain dividends in the future, well , financial, i don't know, maybe even electoral ones, because there is hope that sooner or later, when the elections return to ukraine, this factor will be possible again there with belonging to one or another confessions of reproach.

if someone says that this has never happened in ukraine, well, that is absolutely not true. the church has always actively participated in elections and, with great desire, it was possible to direct whole communities in the right direction there, to vote for one or another, let's say people, and some of them, people's deputies, politicians, in general, they are to this day remember this resource very well and hope to use it in the future, and indeed from the point of view of national security in general, the preservation of such a structure, i am absolutely there with mr. maxim i agree that... here it was possible to remove these points on a purely legal level and create very uncomfortable conditions for the existence of this structure, and then the process would be natural, it would be significantly accelerated, but those people who are in the among the authorities today and who do not want to take such drastic steps, who believe that in the future they will be able to use this resource, but already use it to their advantage, because there is a stage calculation, if we would help them today, well, that's it. .. without proving

them to their logical conclusion, and they will thank us for this in the future and help them stay in power there or solve some other issues there, and by the way, i will say one more moment... i will say that this is again, well, to a certain extent the right of the authorities, i think that they are not activating this story because they are afraid of certain lawsuits and some kind of reaction from the side , including our partners, who, you know, treat freedom of speech like that, they are so very careful, and we see a lot of manipulation, because this the church or the people who support this church are the oligarchs there, they own it american lobbyists, for example, yes , they have influence there on some of the candidates there , former candidates for the position of president of the united states... they talk about some religious persecution there, but why is it a problem of the authorities, the authorities had to legally prepare it in such a way that no there were no questions from our partners, and since these questions remain, well, no one wants to solve this problem, i hope that somehow it will exist there by itself, and then

maybe it will go off the agenda and not be as relevant as it is now. one more question, gentlemen, it concerns the actual vision of the 24th year on sunday. a large forum was held with the participation of the president and leaders of the ukrainian state, speakers of the ukrainian state, and all this was shown and presented as a kind of vision, there is a vision of what people think about the year 2024 , in your opinion, did zelenskyi's team succeed in convincing ukrainians that 2024 will have such, such and such... prospects and that zelensky's current team is not five or six managers, i i think they are now starting to correct this communication error and start showing more people in order to say that we have a whole team, we are going to win with this team, we have such and such plans, and these

plans are clear to everyone, mr. maxim, did you understand why this forum was held in general, or did you get answers to the questions that you, as a citizen of ukraine, definitely have? well, what can i say, if we talk about strategic plans for the year 24, especially plans for our military plans, then i did not expect to hear from our leadership of their coverage, moreover, i hoped that they would not be disclosed and not even approximately, not even hinted at. because in wartime to reveal your plans, especially strategic goals, well, it is a suicidal act, all communication is strategic in wartime, public communication, it is aimed at misleading the enemy, so i did not, no, no, i

did not expect this , to hear, and was it unexpected for me, did i understand why it was being done, i think i did. i think that this is another pr campaign that is going on like this was designed and directed, and its main purpose is the operation to cover up the informational release of valery zaluzhny, that is, they were supposed to show that there is, so to speak, a strong team, there is someone to protect ukraine, and without zaluzhny, eh... well, is it succeeded, i'm not sure, but we saw some kind of imitation of confidence. thank you, mr. igor, how did this ukraine 2024 forum impress you and did

it impress you? look, he impressed me, i 'll tell you now what, what you started, i finally confirmed in the opinion that the president really has five or six me. managers tried to present just a broad team, but all the speeches that were given to the president and, well, partly to the minister of defense, maybe partly to fedorova with some conditions there, well, of course yarmak, by and large we saw, well, very, very weak preparedness of the representatives in the first the turn of the cabinet of ministers and their understanding of the processes that are currently taking place in the country, some of the statements they made there about... the huge number of drones there and the like write people who are directly related to this, including, well, first of all , volunteers, so in this context, well, if they wanted to demonstrate that the entire state

body works as a whole, everyone knows what and how to do it, then it probably worked not very good, because well , there was a certain synchronicity, and the controversy behind... or too optimistic statements, it was visible to the naked eye, so let's hope, the only thing is that it was done specifically and was targeted in the first place on our partners to show that... that ukraine itself is doing a lot of things, wants and needs help, but we will do our best to develop these or other areas, let's say, on our own, so in this context, well, apparently this forum did not work as well as it was expected, on the other hand, it once again showed that everything is concentrated exclusively there practically on the head of state, on his office, and some informal powers, informal institutions that exist today day in the country, they continue to dominate the formal, which of course is not very good, even in the context of a large-scale war, and the reluctance of the president to speak there and

to give answers to individual questions, well, on the one hand, it should not surprise us anymore, because this has happened before, but if so more serious works of conversation begin and some not very pleasant things are mentioned, well, we have to go to the end and give answers to all the questions asked by both our and foreign journalists, because really the story is with the hard-working and with certain there are military plans and so on. answers, they actually left even more questions, and the feeling of a certain lack of expression, well, it remained after that. thank you, mr. igor, gentlemen, after a short break on our tv channel, we will return to the air, i will tell our viewers, do not switch, it will be interesting from now on. there are 15% discounts on feivex in psyllanyk vam and oschad pharmacies. there are 15% discounts on icelandika lozenges in the psarynyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. damn,

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separately, the group of unmanned aerial systems sapsan of the state special service of transport appeals to the viewers of the espresso tv channel with a request to join the collection of crowns and technical equipment. thank you, glory to ukraine, heroes, glory, friends, this. the verdict program, my name is serhii ordenko, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live there. please take part in our vote, today we ask you about whether russia is capable of provoking maidan 3 in ukraine, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, if you sit in front of the tv and watch us on tv , vote by phone numbers if you

think that russia is capable of provoking ukraine maidan 3, 0800 211 381, no? 08 700 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. let me remind you that maksym rozumny and ihor reiterovych, the best political experts of ukraine, are our guests today. we are talking about what was said and heard at the 2024 forum from zelenskyi, and of course, about what plans zelenskyi's team not only for this year, but also in general, what is the vision of what it should look like. the ukrainian government, the reduction of the ministry in ukraine depends on the shortage of funds, if the shortage continues, then the government will do everything to reduce the entire infrastructure of the state. this was stated by the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyy at the press conference following the conclusion of the forum, ukraine year 2024. let's listen to what the president said. we have this

conversation with the prime minister. and it is based solely on scarcity. money if there will be a corresponding deficit , it will continue, we will do everything so that the infrastructure, and this is not only about the cabinet of ministers , so that the management infrastructure of our state is reduced, and this is, there is such a format, we are prepared for it, a reduction in the number of ministries, a reduction number of ministers, it is easier to manage, or cheaper , let’s say, it is not easier to manage, it will not be easier, it will be more coordinated, yes, yes, denys anatovych is right, and that is why we have a completely open dialogue here, and we are ready for it, i think that the indicator will be the understanding that we we will have it in the spring, a little later, a month or two, we will understand everything, mr. maksym, if zelenskyi had said about it two years ago, exactly two years ago, so that

it would be possible to somehow, well, accept the plans there, that it is necessary to reduce the apparatus, because in we have large expenses for... defense, we have to do everything to ensure that this defense is strong, how could it be somehow understood, and the fact that in the third year of the great war the president is talking about the fact that, so far, we have not we know whether we will cut back or not , whether ukraine is currently living as it is the state must live in the conditions of a full-scale war, when the economy is really too important for the future of ukraine, not even for the government, but for the future of ukraine. well, i think that this uncertainty, which was actually expressed and declared by the president in this situation, is mainly related to the sources of financing of the ukrainian state, and as you know, these sources today are mainly external, foreign aid

or foreign borrowing , it's not a secret, and that's as it were. now the key is on the agenda the question that this aid and these borrowings, they are today under a big question mark that is standing there in washington, er, so i think that this variability, so to speak, that president zelensky is talking about, and so at the same time, so to speak, he exchanges remarks with the officials of his office and... his, relatively speaking, cabinet of ministers, but when answering the question of whether ukraine lives today as the circumstances require, er, it is actually a very difficult question, because there are a lot of pros and cons of such savings, i would still mention a lot the popular thesis about the transfer of the economy to

war rails, all these are complex, in fact, economic issues. and everything, so to speak, is concentrated in the issue of the survival of the community, the survival of the nation, and here it is necessary to skillfully, so to speak, balance, it is clear that the reduction of two or three officials in the cabinet of ministers does not solve this problem, although it gives a very a good, so to speak, electoral effect, public, informational effect, but it is obvious that the question lies in much more. deeper, it is obvious that from where in the case of the need for savings, the state not only should he give up some officials, but even some of his public functions, where. it will not be able to provide some functions financially, but i think that

the authorities are not yet ready for such a dialogue with this issue and for such recognition of this problem. thank you, mr. igor, what do you think about the possible reduction or reformatting of the authorities, is this authority really an operator there in the inflow of funds, that is, this big... apparatus must somehow administer, properly monitor it, and accordingly, what zelensky does not want to destroy something that somehow works in the current situation, because you can treat government officials differently there, well, most of them are simply non-public people, most citizens do not even imagine who is currently the minister of social policy there and maybe it plays an important role in the government there, but well... there are a lot of questions about whether ukraine effectively uses funds, internal funds , to support these institutions. listen,

what are we talking about if 25% of our citizens confuse, at least, confuse charles michel and denis shmegal, this is a real story, yes, during polls, they show photos and get confused about where our prime minister is, but you understand, when we talk about the reduction of the state apparatus, here we still have to separate these things, if it comes to ... exclusively about the cabinet of ministers, the cabinet of ministers, then some optimization, the unification of certain ministries or their liquidation, it is possible, and in principle it is possible to talk about it even during the legal regime of martial law, but all this is necessary do very be careful, since we very often have similar optimizations, when two ministries are combined there, in fact it ends with the fact that the bureaucratic apparatus of all ministries is on the contrary, well, this one, or rather the ministry. is bigger than the previous two , taken separately, this is the first, yes, and the second, if we are talking about the civil service as a whole, i, for example, am a categorical opponent

of any cuts here for one simple reason: and where to cut even further? it is the same in our country, if you look at the number of the same civil servants in relation to the total of the population, under all conditions, despite the fact that some part went abroad, we understand all this perfectly, but it is absolutely low and even very small in comparison. for example, with most of the countries of the european union, moreover, those people who are currently working in the public service, they do not bear any, or rather, do not constitute any great burden, for example, on the state budget, because they do not work full-time, in they were cut, all surcharges were removed, of course i am talking about the lower one middle level, lower and middle level of the civil service, well, maybe the situation is different for political appointees of category a, and for everyone else, well, the situation is bad and it has been bad for many years. and at the same time, these people are professionals in their field, and they are highly qualified workers, if you remove them now, that is, throw them out on the market and let them look for something

else, the state will have problems later, because i, on the one hand, absolutely i support the need to transfer part of the functions, part of the powers to the state, for example there the third sector, which is again a very common trend in the countries of the european union, but this should be done taking into account the end of the war. and the continuation of our european integration into the eu. today, it is simply impossible to do this, then we will have colossal gaps and lack of people to organize the normal performance by the state, well, the functions assigned to it. well, not to go too far, you mentioned there, the minister of social policy, for example, the ministry profile and so on, we currently do not have enough even in the context of military rehabilitation. a huge number of civil servants, who will deal with these paperwork, who will give the opportunity to our boys and girls who return from the front, to receive the

guarantees that the state and all of us should provide them. that's why it seems to me that talking about mechanical reduction now is not a very correct story, although i agree that it can be politically and populistically twisted and presented to ukrainians as a great victory and great savings, because in the end our politicians love to manipulate. and tell that we will remove some of the bureaucrats, and then we will have some kind of colossal cost savings, and we will all recover very well, but in fact it will not be like that, in fact there will be very big problems. thank you, mr. igor, one more statement, let's comment quite briefly, i hope we will have time. dmytro kuleba said that he called, or rather, ukrainians who are abroad, to return and help defend the state. in an interview with the publication irishsh times, he stated: "we believe that it is an individual choice for each person, but we also urge all ukrainians who left the country, in the beginning of the full-scale invasion, to consider the possibility of returning

home, we understand that some people cannot have such a choice due to their health. me or other personal circumstances, but those who have a choice, we invite to return and help ukraine to fight and survive with their direct personal contribution, do you think, gentlemen, will the kulebs, the people who in the third year they already live, they are forced to live in europe and maybe there should be some other return program. these to ukraine , in what way to stimulate this return, mr. maksym, well, to be very brief, it is obvious that one can hardly expect such a quick and decisive reaction from people who are abroad to this statement of the minister of foreign affairs, i think that the incentives for return will be different, a very broad topic for

discussion, but... but i would consider this statement against the background of previous statements, when there was information that ukraine might be appeal to the european countries so that they forcibly expel ukrainians, against the background of the fact that certain categories of ukrainians will have certain problems there with accounts, with passports and everything else. against this background, this is kuleba's statement, it is enough. softens this position of the state, than, rather than, sounds like some kind of demand or, er, or or a strong request. thank you, mr. igor. well, you know, it's like playing good cop and bad cop. yes, first we have the statements of some advisers of the office, and now the statement of the wobbler. it is logical, it is expected, she is correct. i, well, somehow support the idea of ​​certain measures to stimulate

the return of our fellow citizens. who are abroad, the only thing here is that you need to approach it precisely, first of all , help those who have lost, for example, their housing, yes, they really left for such reasons that they have nowhere to return, there is no, for example, work and so on further, and with regard to everything else, such a question should be approached very carefully, because, unfortunately, i have already seen in certain polls, for example, the position of those ukrainians who remained in ukraine did not leave anywhere, and believe me, this position is sometimes so complementary... to those who left, in what sense, not in the sense that they are some kind of traitors, no, by no means, everyone supports and recognizes such a right, but, for example, with regard to some additional benefits for those who return, this is ambiguously perceived by a large part of ukrainian society, because they say that everyone should be in equal conditions, both those who stayed and those who left, yes, that is, all of them must bear the same load there, but especially for women there with children who left and so on, of course

certain programs must be launched now. which will stimulate them to return, and by the way, this could be a separate block at the forum that was held recently, but unfortunately, we did not hear any specifics there, well, against the background of problems even with internally displaced persons, well there , and they periodically arise in our country, we understand that until the end of the war, well, at least there, before formalization the end of this war, to expect some kind of mass return, well, probably not worth it, thank you, mr. igor, igor reiterovych and maksym rozumny were guests of today's meeting. program, thank you for participating in the program, gentlemen, during this program we conducted a survey, we asked you about whether russia is capable of provoking maidan 3 in ukraine, yes, no, there were options for answers, now we will see the results of the television survey, 15% yes, 85%, no, on youtube 17%, yes, no, 83%, these are the results of our survey today,

we will meet tomorrow, i wish everyone good health, take care of yourself and your relatives, goodbye. it's 2 p.m. in ukraine, to your attention a news release on the espresso tv channel. in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers. the air force refused to comment on how far from the contact line the enemy aircraft were shot down. however, it was noted that it is quite far behind enemy lines. today, ukrainian defense forces shot down an su-34 fighter-bomber. he was landed in the direction of mariupol - he informed about it.