let's start with you again, well, it was still disturbing , and to a certain extent, maybe even not only what was said was disturbing, but also the form of presentation of this entire message, and here is how to separate the form from the content of what is happening, where is there a real threat, and where is just some kind of rhetoric, here is just a very organic combination of form and content, you know, well, in general, it is typical for... special services, which means that the lists have not yet been agreed, they are probably in the stage of agreement, we will later let's call these surnames, but just in case, do not allow yourself too much, because you can to be on this list, and you can see how it is not, you are not agents, you may just be used, but if you do not behave as you should, then we will tell about it to separate ones, and again here the question is not about... the current

government, or the previous government, or the previous government, the special services always, unfortunately, always work here, and this is precisely the evidence that, on the one hand, of course, they are respected, when they work for the defense of the country, but on the other hand, well, sometimes it often seems like a joke, i no matter what we say, that is, we protect both the country and state interests, but at the same time we protect the interests of the people in power, this combination, it actually works to destabilize the internal situation more than any plan there maidan 3 reads like was until recently, that is, there is already a question about the responsibility of the representatives of the special services who allow themselves such, well, serhiy , please, well, from your impressions, again, and those of donetsk, even as far as such plans, any shake-ups can be... well that is,

how much this threat can be in general realistic from your point of view? well, first of all, there are plans, most likely, because i monitor the russian media and see russian political technologists, who wrote a long time ago, at the beginning of the year, that what it will be, so to speak, well, of course, without calling it maidan-3 and the like , secondly, to what extent those plans, let 's say, are correctly presented and designed precisely by our guru, i am not sure. because in this case i agree with my colleagues that, excuse me, gur is now becoming an instrument of domestic politics, because someone is, yes, who is in these plans in ukraine, but we do not name them, that is, anyone who will come forward now, so to speak, no, from a perspective that is favorable to the authorities, can actually be a declared figure in these plans, yes so to speak, and accordingly an agent of... the russian federation

, if not a direct agent, then an agent of influence, at least, yes, that's why it's certainly strange, although my colleague already mentioned that there was already a connecting rod, yes, we remember, that is there is nothing strange in this practice, but i would certainly like to get rid of it, first of all, after all, if we are moving somewhere, yes, to the same europe, and secondly, i am surprised not that the authorities react to this plan, but that the authorities actually do nothing to... get rid of the problem on which the russians are building this plan , that is, the problem of the question of legitimacy, it will stand, it objectively exists, and something must be done to solve it, so that, i am not talking about elections, by the way, i am not a supporter of elections during martial law, it is simply impossible, but there is a problem, it must be solved not simply to prevent the muscovites from introducing some their plans, because... well, we

also have questions in ukraine, they will be, and that's objectively, people are so disposed to ask questions, that's why i'm in the place of power, the power i would i don't know, maybe we should think about a referendum and about trusting the acting president in order not to hold elections and there is no question of legitimacy, maybe we should think, although i know that there was already an appeal to the constitutional court, yes in that sense. but in any case, it is necessary to solve the problem, and not, so to speak, those comments, or those commentators who they will comment on it, it is not beneficial for ukraine. well, larisa, please look, you could also observe such plans in the crimea when you were in the 14th-13th year, and it is obvious that i absolutely agree with sergiyevt. in the plan

that there are such plans, maybe they are called differently, but the authorities made such a statement that there is such a plan, and from the point of view of you as a psychologist, and what did it mean... well, as a result , the effect of this statement itself on on ukrainian internal life, that is, what they achieved, that they made it public. the fact is that when we all watched similar plans, destabilization of the situation, yes , that is, inciting the masses to some thesis that in crimea, that in donbas, what serhiy mentioned, some thesis was always launched there in crimea, this is the law about... the russian language means there the forcible ukrainization of donetsk and luhansk had its own theses, which were also related, they say that the people of bandera will come, four buses have arrived there with the people of bandera, they will now kill, all this was, but what

is the point, all these theses that were launched were launched in order to stir up the masses and under cover of these agitated masses, spend sabotage for seizure of power, destabilization of local authorities, seizure of administrative buildings and all that, this very plan, as they called it maidan 3, is great, russia will tell that president volodymyr zelensky is illegitimate, and some russian agents, who do not even know that they are agents , they will tell it, so the uprising of the masses here is generally foreseen within the framework of the plan that the gur tells us here, who will rebel, but i want to ask: it is clear who was in crimea, russian saboteurs were brought in and all this mass is russian, it was clear who in donbas pretended that they were our boys and they rebelled, bitter and ugly, who should rebel here when gur tells us that they oppose some plan

of maidan 3, i.e. popular unrest, popular masses, overthrow of the government, destabilization the situation in the country, what they will be now. in some, on some lists, to look for people who say something, no, wait, it's more like censorship, because even if you say that a person works as an informant for the kremlin, you have to show curators, money, temniks, if you say that these people are preparing, for example, to bring out some groups there that should imitate this maidan 3, well , these same groups are somewhere. there must be, well, these provocateurs who are huddled in the crowd, and they will be, so the kremlin needs to do something like that, maidan 3, where are these people, where are their names, well, that is, in this case it looks absolutely strange, and even i do not i agree that this is similar to the plan of the connecting rod,

which we were told there, because we were told by the connecting rod that the essence of all these narratives is to shake the unity of ukrainian society, i was there , no one saw it... i saw mass unrest, but here is mass unrest, which no one saw, no one investigates, the names of the saboteurs are not named, the names of the curators are not named, but theses that cannot be spoken are named , and why not , well, many people will sit in the kitchen and say that zelensky is illegitimate, many people will sit in the kitchen and say that zelensky is a martian, many will sit and say that zelensky is not a zelensky at all, but this is putin from refrigerator, and what do we do now? of this reason, that is, it is some kind of strange story, the impression is that our authorities are more interested in who says what, and that they do not say , instead of taking some actions, understanding what actions of the authorities can stir up public concern, bring people to the streets,

this is what we need to do, we need to focus on actions , not words, that's the problem, that we actually have the impression that we are endlessly playing some kind of political technology, forgetting that we live in... a time when real actions are actually taking place, knock out or inactivity in or other nuances, which can lead to certain mass disturbances, and we understand that this is definitely not a phrase about an illegitimate, or maybe an illegitimate zelensky, what can bring people to the streets is the collapse of the front, this can be a problem, and it is necessary to do everything so that this does not happen, and instead of telling us about some connecting rods, well, i will remind you in general. that we should have already held parliamentary elections and when they did not take place, or rather before they did not take place, there was already an attempt by the russians to launch similar theses, and that we did any of us notice at all that these theses were launched, no, because they

did not spread in any way, no one reacted to them, and you know, i have the impression that if the attention to these new theses of kremiv was not so much. it’s important that if the president’s office didn’t focus on them, then we wouldn’t have noticed this russian campaign either, because it’s just, well , it passes somewhere on the telegram channel and something else, that is... well, this is not the reality that really is disturbing, did you want to add something, yes, sergey, yes, yes, well, i just want to remind that during the large-scale invasion, there was also a calculation that there would be a disturbance inside the country, but there the calculation was that the authorities would make some kind of compromise with russia, unacceptable for a significant mass of ukraine. well, for example, i will remember , the wall street journal reminded me about the istanbul

agreements, which either existed or did not exist, well, at least putin is brandishing them now, but then, of course, it could cause disturbance, disturbance of people, well, i don't think so, that disturbing people will raise the question of how legitimate legitimate zelensky, let's, you know , let's go to a break now, and just what... you started talking, yes, we, we 'll talk about him right there, so let's take a break now and come back to this conversation after the break. bleeding and inflammation of the gums. my advice. lakalut active. lakalut aktiv actively overcomes bleeding gums, protects against periodontitis and visibly tightens the gums. lakalut aktiv - an action that you feel immediately. novelty. lacalot active++ with two-phase technology and plus actives. for even more active protection lacal aktiv+ turn on

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, i will remind you about our poll, whether people's deputies should be restricted from working trips abroad during the war, telephones, you see , call, yes, no, your answer, and we, let's continue what, what i started talking about this story , oleksiy mustafin, namely the newspaper the wall street journal claims that got access to the draft agreement between ukraine and russia dated 15.2022, these are the glorious istanbul agreements, and here is what she writes, well, first of all, how she characterizes it all is quite interesting, she says that the contours of the agreement between, contours the agreement that the russian leader probably wants can be seen in the draft peace treaty developed by the russian and ukrainian negotiators in april 22nd, according to the wall street journal, the document shows deep concessions. the negotiators were ready to leave of the ukrainian side in the first weeks of the war and to what compromises ukraine can incline

russia to ukraine, russia also now, well actually she talks a little about the same concessions, there is talk of not joining nato, well we know that, we knew it in principle in april 2022 , but it is possible that we knew a little less, that russia demanded to limit the number of... forces to 85 thousand people, 342 tanks, 519 artillery shells. at the same time , russia wanted the flight range of ukrainian missiles to be limited to 40 km, well, that's how you like it now, to explain, we would not even be able to defend our front line at all, if such a restriction were in effect now, well, according to this document, the ukrainian side at the negotiations demanded 250,000 military personnel, which we also now see as

completely unrealistic to defend ourselves with this 800 tanks and 1900 artillery installations, he says funny. well, actually, the crimean peninsula should have been recognized as occupied by russia and it would have remained under the influence of moscow, and somewhere there, putin and zelensky should have talked separately about the fate of the actually occupied donetsk and luhansk oblasts, such an agreement, and they talk about it as something that, well, you can talk about even now, this is the impression, and actually oleksiy has already said that it is... i absolutely agree that if such the conditions became known in april 22, it caused a disturbance and caused, apparently, even mass demonstrations. we all understand this very well, because we remember what happened when the minsk agreements were signed, in which there were no such restrictions, remember, they simply did not exist. also, larisa already said that

it is obvious that certain disturbances would cause the collapse of the front, but serhii, from your point of view... are there really such opinions that were made public there, that talks about the illegitimacy of zelensky can cause some disturbances, is it - in general, there is a real reason for causing some, some public disturbances and some mass demonstrations, against this background of what we have heard now, well , first of all, i return to the previous topic, because it is fundamental, the shatun plan was calculated not to some mass actions there, on the discrediting of the ukrainian authorities , the same as the same gur reported, you probably just assumed it, they say now that the maidan-3 plan is not aimed at mass actions, that is, it is not the maidan that was, but rather at discrediting with

the demand to hold early elections, i don't remember whether it was gur or danilov, because... it was the first time that danilov started voicing this topic, but it was like that. friend, answering your question, olya, ah, i don’t know why there are questions now, yes, about this text of the negotiation, the one that was back in april of the 22nd year, mr. podolyak, in ukrainian truth, i have a link, i can, you know, i kept it for myself, but actually made it public, well, from my own words, but about the limitations of ours. the number of our military, and about negotiations on donbas and other, so to speak, theses in this document, that is , i did not see anything new here, and to be honest, i am sure that even then there would not have been a maidan and active resistance, because the population then it was a different orientation, so to speak,

yes, that is, then we were mainly opposed to the russian federation. nor this one today the publication of this text, well, in principle, it does not affect anything, i think, to be honest , well, again, nothing new, i read this material, nothing new at all, and i did not see there, the only thing i want to say is that i do not i agree with the journalists of the journal that putin still wants this, i am absolutely sure that putin wanted it then, when he saw the resistance and when he failed... his plans to hold a victory parade in kyiv in three days, but then he was afraid that the war will not go according to his plan, he agreed to such compromises today he no longer agrees to such compromises, he wants much more, believe me, because today he believes that the initiative of the russians is at the front, he believes that

they have solved the problem there with sanctions, he sees the support of many countries. and also the brics and china and other countries, yes, where does iran and the dprk come from, where are they supplied with ammunition, that is, i am sure that today, if putin is going to talk about negotiations, then this text, it will be, well, simply, simply wonderful, yes, compared to what putin wants today, so that's it plan, i don't agree with my colleagues from polstríl, i wouldn't agree... with serhiy, because we, we can't say whether he would agree or not, because we know that he didn't agree, he and then the appetites were much, much bigger, it was so... so to speak, the option that was allegedly brought for a simple cease-fire, by the way, remember, it was simply a matter of a cease-fire along the active front line, yes, he brought mydinsky from

istanbul and was stunned by what putin said that what he is doing, what, what, what is it for it is unacceptable for russia, it seems to me that we, we, we don't need to guess what putin wanted and what he wants, he wanted and wants only one thing, destruction. country as a general phenomenon that exists in the world, or the creation of something from ukraine that suited it, that is, another russia, so to speak, so it seems to me that there is no need to be attached to this at all, but in relation to what the russians are counting on, if they really want to destabilize the situation in ukraine, then it is really so, i did not say. so as not to reduce everything to this paper, which does not have really no meaning in the sense, it was not an agreement, it was a draft, as

the wall street journal itself writes, and in principle, they are interested in having a conflict inside the country, and the best way to provoke a conflict is wrong steps on the part of the authorities , the possibility of loosening, so to speak, the widening of this... er gap between the government and society, and therefore, if the government does not want to allow this, then it should first of all take care of its own reasonable policy that would correspond to the national interests , whatever caused a disturbance in society, this is the best antidote against any plan, against the connecting rod, against maidan ii, against maidan 95, in general , any plan to destabilize the internal situation, well, you know me. i partly agree with sergey, partly not , well, partly, because i also remember this publication, which sergey is talking about, and there really was a lot of what they

wrote here now, it was, maybe it was not in numbers, but absolutely absolutely, then we already knew that we were talking about not joining nato and banning the use of western weapons, and well, in principle , it was clear to anyone who read it then, banning the use of western weapons means leaving the country unarmed, so it had to be. just put tere and say why ukraine remains unarmed, you just capture whoever wants. this is one thing, but i do not agree with the fact that shatun did not have it when, well, we are now just recalling the events of the 15-16th years, that there were no mass actions planned, mass actions were planned there, moreover , if anyone remembers mihomaidan was one with a part of what was actually shown as the happiness of these mass actions, these were mass actions, they were an attempt to block the hives. it was an attempt to stand under the verkhovna rada, it was an attempt to put some kind of tent city there, it's just possible that it has now

been slightly erased from memory due to the fact that it did not achieve any results and was quite limited in its actions, but it was such an attempt, but i have a little problem with larisa on the other side of the question, but now we see all these active publications of the old plans, and you look at the publications... of this plan, well, it wasn't the wall street journal that started them , putin started them, he started talking about these plans, first in one interview, then in another, and then they stopped, and suddenly unexpectedly appear in journals, and it is not the first time that what putin says appears in some wall street journal, and somehow it reminds me of some strange movements, and yet, what are these publications for, i let's put it this way, what's the point of all these posts? of all these plans, the fact is that there is very good research in psychology the american 50s, where they took a group

of people, they showed them there, i.e. told them a certain situation, showed them a film, they wrote down what and how they saw, they wrote down the plot of the film, after that these people scared them, that you are wrong , what they said, listen, everyone else thinks differently, that is, in principle, what was happening , the one whom, the experimenters, one person thought was in the group, all the others were, so they were like himself , i.e., such studies too, in fact, were all bogus, and it was discovered that a person is actually capable change your memories just in front of the experimenter, if you scare her, she will reject you. if she is frightened by something, that she will, for example, be kicked out of the group, that she will not be paid, because she alone blocks the entire company, the entire team, and everything disrupts the experiment and so on, that is, under the influence of...

fear, under the influence of negative feelings , the person was simply rewriting in front of his eyes, not just agreeing, but the equipment itself showed how these neural connections are being rewritten in him, he perceives as something that did not happen, he perceives it as a real event, so to me this is exactly what we are reminded of, because we are now being told what happened to us there in the 22nd year, as a kind of revelation. although in fact we, i agree here with both mr. oleksiy and mr. serhiy, we knew about these plans, because, remember, the current minister of defense umiraf came out in istanbul on march 29, they all read these points as ukrainian the proposal, moreover, it said that ukraine insists that it does not join nato, but there must be preliminary guarantees from the country, there was an appeal to the united states and there

of the budapest memorandum of the signatories, then that ukraine will hold an all-ukrainian referendum on whether the ukrainians agree to these conditions, if everything is so, then fine, well, there was some complicated scheme, when it was obvious that no matter what , on no matter what ukraine agrees to, it is impossible to implement it, but at the same time, what is most interesting, first of all, putin did not sign it, and here i agree with mr. serhii. he then told the african leaders there that we already have agreements, but putin did not sign them no arrangements. moreover, on the 29th , the last meeting was held in istanbul, after which the ukrainian delegation came out and read our proposals to russia. so, and these are exactly the proposals that we now see here in the wall street journal. but, at this moment, just a few days after march 29, when it was.

the last meeting on april 2, i will remind you, the ukrainian military entered bucha, and everything changed, moreover, russia, according to research and satellite observations, was killing and shooting the people of bucha, just at the very moment when the negotiations in istanbul, so the fact that ukraine did not agree is the result of the horror that we... saw in the kyiv region, and moreover, we also all remember the press conference of volodymyr zelenskyi, which he gave to ukrainian journalists, when it seems to me , natalka snisarchuk asked him how it is possible to talk to putin about something after bucha, and he said, understand, i am the president, i have to lead the negotiations, we all remember this scene, but bucha was already sounding like an argument for the impossibility of holding no negotiations with putin, and only after that the authorities said

that there will be no... negotiations, there will be nothing, the liberation of all territories. this wall street journal for some reason forgot to remind that this was not signed, that after buchi the situation changed, for some reason they explain that, well , somehow, we do not know, we will forget two years of war, we will forget everything we know about the russians, and suddenly let's go back to the conversation, well , i think that in fact this is the point of view of the russians on the whole story, yes, rather they show that... agreed, but ukraine for some reason, but putin did not agree, this is a draft on his part, and there is no his signature. actually, yes, and now, i think it's also an attempt to throw it in as well, as an attempt to, you know, let's talk about something again. thanks to my wonderful colleagues oleksiy mustafin, larisa voloshina and serhii harmash. i will remind you about our survey. let's finally see how our viewers voted. so, should

it be limited to... people's deputies on work trips abroad during the war, and what do we see there, 70, i don't see, eight, 76% said no, respectively, 24% said yes, well in in principle, well, such and such an answer, she understood, well, and with you, i hope to meet serhii rudenko next week, i was very glad to see you, i wish you all... a good night and actually a good weekend, goodbye, and what do you think about lacal fix, it fixes reliably, my dentist advised me, even particles of food do not get under the prosthesis, and the price

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