the head of wagner prigozhin's private company , all those who, in one way or another, raise feathers against the current russian dictatorship, they are either in prison or in the ground, well, first in the air, then in the ground, well, with a beautiful everything turned out interesting there, you all remember it, so it is clear that the government in russia is not elected. in the elections, she is not elected, and accordingly, if you want change, then you should not wave flashlights with balls and chant ukrainians are good people, if you want change, kill, kill, because or they will kill you, that's exactly it obvious to everyone and, thank you very much, thank you very much, roman sembalyuk, journalist, former correspondent of the unian agency in russia, a real expert in russian.

problems, thank you for being on the air, now we will have a commercial, after the commercial we will talk about central and eastern europe, about our neighbors, and about the poles, and about the hungarians, and about the slovaks, and about the czechs, but first let's look at the ad, there are discounts on amexin ic pills, 10%. in pharmacies, plantain for you and savings, damn stairs, my legs can't walk anymore, wait, i'll catch up, there's no health, and what health there is in the sixth ten, and i thought so until i tried herovital. gerovital+ is a phytovitamin complex that cares for the heart and strengthens the body. gerovital+ - good health, active life. new herovital energy, even more iron for good causes. reception once a day. turn on

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political analysis is objective and meaningful, there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front, svobodalai is frank and impartial, you draw your own conclusions. so, dmytro tuzhansky, director of the center, institute , is with us of the central and eastern european strategy , an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations, and mr. dmytro, thank you for finding time for us on saturday, thank you very much, and here is my question, the other day there was a meeting of the so-called visegrad group, that is, the czech republic, slovakia, poland and hungary. and they are meeting

, but they have, well, how to say, not just some friction, but opposite points of view, if poland and the czech republic are unequivocally for ukraine, then slovakia, and at least the leader of slovakia and the leader of hungary, are obviously not for ukraine, maybe not so much for russia, but definitely not for ukraine, but he peeks like that and as if... squints his eye towards russia, loves, now we see that orban has been invited by trump, we don’t know why we can’t, we can only speculate, maybe he will say on the contrary, you go there orban, he supports ukraine, and maybe, more likely, he won't say that, how they exist, what are the foundations of their existence, once it was clear, because this is the post-soviet space, there are common thoughts, there are common problems, come on... now

i don't have anything in common i see, indeed, this community disappeared after february 24, 2022, and regardless of the fact that, for example, in... that the government changed, and well, there was a hard cut, so to speak, but this division between warsaw-prague and, well, let's say this, until the fall of last year, then bratislava joined warsaw and prague because there was the government of mr. heger, matovych, president chaputov, she was also pro-ukrainian, now we see that slovakia is fizo, even with the presidency. chapotova, but we understand that she is already serving her term, if she were to join the ranks of viktor orban, and you know, i would not somehow overestimated the visegrad four, here if the moment is like this, and a worrying moment, to be honest, we need to deal with him, well, this is not a disaster,

we need to work with him, because after the meeting of the visegrad four, literally these days, even today, this diplomatic forum continues in turkey, and it is obvious... and this is already in all the news , how russia uses the same hungary and the same slovakia in order to show that it is not isolated, that european countries are cooperating, here are the latest messages from the kremlin, i wonder how they are read in in bratislava, fico already supported the meeting of his foreign minister with lavrov, but the kremlin directly communicates that we are preparing for a speech. the restoration of full-fledged diplomatic relations is the same as, in fact, despite the entire context, here not only, you know, the position of the west or the european union, but despite the entire context what hungary is doing, what peter sierto is doing personally after the beginning of the russian invasion,

but now this club, well, i would call them the club of russian trojan horses, joins actually slovakia fico, so, you know, it 's such, such a new reality in our region central, just as you focused my thoughts on slovakia, i would ask if we're talking about hungary, as a country that traditionally votes for orbán's party, and therefore, we can suspect that the magyars are not so pro-ukrainian, so to speak , when we talk about slovakia, you yourself just... said that recently it was pro-ukraine, that is, there are fluctuations there, on the levers, you cannot say about slovaks, that they clearly support anti-ukrainianism, i even have i suspect that they are rather neutrally positive towards ukrainians, but they voted for fizo

, fizo has abandoned such a policy, but the next elections will be conditional, everything can go in the other direction, unlike hungary, where these elections are the day before or the day before... i i already forgot about the year they actually showed support for orbán, what do you say about the slovak language and slovaks, about the people, about the voters, i have a little connection , i hope you hear me, okay, yes , yes, i hear you, we hear you, i hope you heard my question, yes, yes, i heard everything, and here, you know i have to clarify a little, because it is also slovak. and hungarian society, it is divided and it is, so to speak, disorientated, because if we look at the level of support or positive attitude towards ukrainian refugees, for example, well, these are slightly older data, yes, the 22nd and 23rd years, but hungarian

society is almost treats ukrainian refugees as positively as polish at that time, whereas slovak treats ukrainian refugees very negatively. of course, we are talking about different numbers of refugees, here, but here, here this one context is important. on the other hand, if you look, for example, by regional specifics, yes, or for example, by such a sectoral one, that is, in slovakia, considering what is left, there are very powerful, independent media, yes, then, well, i cannot say , that they are pro-ukrainian, yes, they are just, well, let's say this, adequate, they tell the truth , yes, they are pro-western, and... they, relatively speaking, well, not either, again, they are not on the ukrainian side, they just inform true things, instead in hungary, especially in this, well, where the media space is controlled, yes, where is the state, and more precisely , the fidesz party, which merges with the state, it controls the media space almost completely,

they feed tales about ukrainian nazis, you know, already from yaki, at which thacker causon is already laughing , but this thing is still happening there. that's why you know, everything, everything is fine, that is, you have to look at the specific context, you have to look at the specific issue, you have to look at the specific environment, that is, the east of slovakia, which, unfortunately, is super anti-ukraine. yes, but if we take bratislava, yes, there is absolute support , yes, the same in principle in budapest, if we look at budapest, there is a very pro-ukrainian mood, yes, of course, there are almost no flags, although they hang in the budapest city hall, but there is an absolutely pro-ukrainian mood there, that's why it's very, you know, the devil is in the details , and that's why, you know, the government in slovakia seems to have changed and has become so pro-russian, but in reality, unfortunately , pro-russian... sentiments, such pan-slavic sentiments, anti-western sentiments, they were also before, yes, and that is why it allowed fitz

to win, but, again, the support is very strong, you know, now ukraine is such, well, a benchmark, yes, that is, there are such democratic forces, pro-western forces, they all support ukraine, and their rhetoric is increasing due to a number of reasons, elections to the european parliament, presidential elections in slovakia, yes, for example, viktor orbán somewhat silenced his anti-ukrainian rhetoric, because he needs to join the group of ms. maloney, who in this competition for ukrainianness, then viktor orban he can no longer, you know, say such brutal things, that's why his rhetoric is careful now, but fizo, he needs to have his own president, this is mr. pellegrini, he needs to assert his stronger power in the country, and he, you know, feeds his electorate with such a pro-russian delusion, that's why... this is the reality, listen, i 'll ask you a simple question now, it popped into my head,

for example, one of the ukrainians has 40 thousand hryvnias, that is, about 100 euros, and there is a choice, and he addresses you, this ukrainian, the family of a ukrainian, go to poland, the czech republic , slovakia or hungary, where he can feel at home, he is not a refugee, he wants to go there for a week to... i don't know, to rest , he has a child there, a wife, and he is going, where would he rather go? look, this here is a very simple solution, this is poland and the czech republic, of course, that is, these nations, uh, well, you know , that is, for me it is actually hungary, departure, yes, yes, but, well, here, look, everything on at such a personal level, yes, if we take it to such a state level, i.e. and the support we received from poland, society and the state, well, this is something unprecedented, you understand, that is , regardless of the incredible disaster we

are experiencing in bilateral relations now due to the blockade at the border, for example, the same with the czechs, yes, that is, incredible support, but here is a fresh example from hungary, that is, three hungarian citizens, they do not even have such or any ties with transcarpathia, with ukraine, yes, but they organized and raised funds, contrary to the position of the hungarian government. uah 20 million, for what, with this money they buy equipment, it is not military equipment, because they buy it in the same hungary, but it is for the armed forces of ukraine, that is, it is various generators, drones, imagine, they raised uah 20 million, and the same examples from slovakia , that is, if you look, for example, at the team around the ex-minister of defense of slovakia, mr. nagy, he came to us, by the way, in uzhhorod for a forum, when he talked about... the ukrainian war and about our soldiers, in his there were tears in my eyes, that is, you see, it is

also priceless, that is, it is very important to us to work even in such difficult countries as slovakia and hungary, because there are our people in every sense of the word, citizens of slovakia, horszchyna, who are on our side, on the side of truth, everything is simple here. okay, thank you very much, dmytro tuzhanskyi, director of the institute of central european strategy, expert. of ukrainian-hungarian relations, we were in touch, i somehow hesitated to ask a question about poland to mr. dmytro, but we have olha popovych ahead of us, editor of the annual ukrainian almanac publication of the association of ukrainians in poland, and undoubtedly ms. olga knows better about polish events than mr. dmytro, and therefore i direct all my questions to... look, the question to which there is no

answer, i already understand in advance that i, that the conversation can be , well, it's complicated, i don't see any reason not to settle the situation on the border between ukraine and poland, and i see that it's not settled, and i'm not convinced by any explanation when they say there were elections, now elections are ahead, elections are elections , but russian grain goes to poland, ukrainian grain is prohibited. uh, ukrainians all the pieces of paper show that we are in transit and are still not allowed, and the russians say that we are in transit and not in transit and they let us in, in short, there is no reason to keep such a situation at the border as it is, that is, everything can be fixed in my cold head

, so why doesn't it settle down, really, it's very difficult to answer why it doesn't settle down, and to me... it seems, first of all, the problem is that in polish society in general there is a belief that ukrainian goods have filled, flooded the polish market and thereby displaced polish goods, ukrainian agricultural products. this thesis is circulating in the polish media, and among the statements , among the statements of polish experts, in fact, since april 200. 23, respectively, it has become so strongly established that now, when various polish publications order sociological surveys to find out the opinion of the public , whether they support these protests, in what form they support these protests, then almost all of these polls show that 78-77%, 76%

of the surveyed population supports the protests and border blockade. moreover, 77% very often , according to various polls, also roughly show, answer the question why they support these protests, they support precisely because ukrainian goods are displacing polish ones, that is, in order to somehow change the situation, it seems to me that we need to pay a lot of attention now to the discourse that prevails in poland and to try to change these manipulative theses, because they are manipulative theses, and... no statistics, no official data, and in the end, even unofficial data, do not confirm this thesis, ms. olya, look, me anyway, i don't know, i'm in despair, because i started my journalistic life when i was young, i always talked very often with poland, with the poles, with the electoral newspaper, then

with these new editions, and i went to poland 150 times a year, and poles came to see me in kyiv. and if we were for objectivity, we all shouted that get rid of the pravda newspaper, give us the election newspaper, give us the lviv post-postup and so on, go to a big store with a camera, remove the shelves of polish stores, show the number of ukrainian goods and polish goods and german goods and any other goods, and the poles cannot... understand that this, as you said, is manipulation and lies, for this you do not need any superpowers, write, i went to the store, for a large amount, there some, some, i don't know, metro or some other , or polish networks or french networks or german networks, i went to three networks, there are not so many ukrainian goods,

that's it, the discussion is over, that's not all, the discussion is not over, because that's exactly what polish journalists don't do on... on leading channels, on those channels that have an impact on society, this is the first. secondly, when we also talk about printed publications, then, unfortunately, this thesis, one, you mentioned the election newspaper, the election newspaper is not as popular a publication in poland as, for example, rych posppolita. rych pospolyta is a much more readable publication, the most readable, more readable publication than the election newspaper, but rych pospolyta repeats this manipulative thesis that... that ukrainian goods flooded the polish market, therefore a as you propose to change this discourse, go to a store and make a video with shelves of goods, more precisely agricultural products, tomatoes, cucumbers, radishes and

show that these are not ukrainian goods, they are european goods, then this is not right. amateur videos are doing the rounds on social networks, but they don't play the role that traditional media does, that's obvious, and the second reason why politicians mostly support these manipulative theses instead of refuting them. it is obvious that the ukrainian side needs to say a lot to the diplomats, a lot, a lot of work to be done with the polish political community, so that... everyone dared to break these manipulative theses, i am not convinced that only manipulative theses are the reason for this, we have been from the very beginning of the protests, first the carriers.. polish people on the border, now also polish farmers, we hear that the confederacy, an extreme

right-wing polish party, whose politicians have direct ties to russia or russian journalists, russian experts, is actively involved in these protests. accordingly, russia is trying to use it with the hands of the confederacy, obviously, and the confederation... now, unfortunately, we have to admit that in poland it is far from a marginal party, and all politicians from right to left are looking at the votes of the confederation, ms. olya, okay, but then the next question, but i will have one more, so that i do not forget it, but russian, russian agricultural products go to poland. in no less quantity than the ukrainian one, and there are none there , this is because it cannot be shown on tv either, it cannot be made public and

to say: look at this border and it is blocked, and this border is not blocked, and tomorrow due to the blocking of ukrainian products, russian products will simply be in those stores where ukrainian products are now suspected, well, as for the quantity, there are official statistical data where you can look, which goods come from russia and... for example, until the 23rd year before the embargo was introduced by poland, ukrainian wheat really went in larger quantities than russian wheat. but there is also another problem, that the russian border with poland, more precisely, cars pass through belarus, mainly the belarusian border with poland, and this is a border that is under surveillance. the attention of the polish border guards and the polish security service of the abvu, since the 20th year, when

the migration crisis began on this border. accordingly, it is much more difficult to hold protests there, but there would definitely be a will for it, a political will. you will be redialed now, ms. olya, because i have one more question, we somehow lost contact, anyway, i can't understand it, i always apologize, well to a certain extent, i envied the polish mass media, back in the 90s they were freer than the ukrainian ones, obviously, and at the beginning of zero they were freer, now it turns out that even despite this marathon, the ukrainian mass media are a little freer, maybe not much, but more freely than the polish ones, at least the polish ones, well, they do not perform such elementary tasks that any journalist sets before himself, just to search

for the truth and somehow make it public, and i understand the ukrainian authorities, and ukrainians, and myself, even to a certain extent i understand that during the war it is, well, there are very difficult moments, very hot moments, very dangerous moments, but still you have to... you definitely have to engage in self-censorship, not everything can be said, but oh well there are some things that can be said, especially since there is no war in poland, as far as i understand, it is very easy to tell the truth there, certainly a normal, conscientious ukrainian journalist will not say how many were killed, how many were wounded, and so on and so on, how many of us there are weapons, and we invite olga again popovych, the editor of the ukrainian lemenakh yearbook, published by the association of ukrainians, she appeared again, i have a question for you then, or maybe a series of questions, because it is important, or maybe polish society

is tired of ukrainians, of the war that, what kind of society does this lead, but okay, they have problems, ukrainians are also not, you know, not divine creatures, i think there are different people there, newspapers write different things. and about the good, about the business that is being started, and about the bad and so on and so on, well, you just know when a guest comes even to a huge house and says, i will quietly live here in one room, and those rooms are 15, for example , someone has them, but after a year or two somehow you don’t want them, even if you have this room and have 14 of your own and only one where someone lives there is a guest, to keep him there, in short, maybe it's just tiredness, no. i don't think that this can explain the support for the polish protests and the blocking of the border, there is no doubt that there is some kind of fatigue, but the fatigue is more, probably from

the loss. the basic comfort that existed in poland before the start of russia's war against ukraine. this is, which affected other european countries in general. at one time, the poles were already used to welfare, they were used to stable, high wages , they were used to low loans, this has all changed, wages did not grow so quickly, instead , prices rose, inflation grew and is growing, loans are now very... compared to the previous ones, very high, and accordingly the poles are tired of that, therefore such manipulations or such manipulative theses in general, very easily get into society, that is, they also have fertile ground. mrs. olya, and then there is a very important question, i am it i have been asking the question since 1991, when in 1990-1990 i started going to poland, and then in the 1990s, to my

question, who is not loved anymore. ukrainians or russians are very often enough for me, well, i have to say that ukrainians are no more loved than russians, but today, today , 20 or 30 years have passed, as today they still suspect ukrainians that they are some kind of bad people, and russia big, beautiful, this coat of arms is similar, and there is an eagle, and there is an eagle in russia, and that is a maiden. in two directions, and this one looks in two directions, everything is so that today, what is the principled position, not across the border, but if you do a poll, which is the worse neighbor, ukraine or russia, definitely russia, poles in their majority, the absolute majority, support ukraine and have a much more positive attitude towards ukrainians

than. to the russians, moreover, the poles will feel the threat from russia very well, they felt it before, but the full-scale war of russia against ukraine brought this threat closer to them and made it more realistic, accordingly they are afraid of russia, and because of that they are not sufficiently tolerant towards russian citizens i will say for ukrainians, not for you, mrs. olya, you know that. that in the 90s , in the zero years, on the contrary, the threat from russia for the poles, the poles persuaded the ukrainians, said: "hello, you have a predatory neighbor next to you", and the ukrainians said: "no, we are brothers, we are brothers, we have friendship ". the poles said, well, look more closely, there is a problem. okay, well, what can i say, i can only say one thing, i hope, i don't, you can, questions will arise,

you can say that this is this crisis. will settle down, or is it so wishful thinking, i guess, this crisis will eventually settle down, when and in which way, this is a question, because it is also a question of whether the ukrainian side is ready to take a step back in some way, the question is whether the polish political elite will now dare to take more pro-ukrainian, let's say, steps in the eyes of the protesters, but this is ukraine, which is on its way to the european union , will definitely be for poland. a threat in economic terms, will be threatened by its own agricultural products, and the poles understand this, as at one time, for example, was poland's accession to the european union, as the germans understood it. yes, i agree here 358, olga popovych, editor of the ukrainian almanac annual published by the association of ukrainians in poland, i can only agree that ukrainian agricultural products are a threat to

the future. the participation of both ukraine and poland in the european union is a threat to poland. ulyana panasiuk will now tell you about the news that happened during this hour, while she was not on the air, i was on the air. and i say goodbye, see you tomorrow, all the best, mrs. ulyana, i promise you. 19th on the clock, more about the most important thing that happened today. destroyed under the rubble.