on the bad day with the help of a telephone survey, the verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22. greetings, dear tv viewers, it's time to learn about the most relevant events at the moment and i'll start with the situation in donetsk region. the russians dropped an aerial bomb on the center of kurakhovo. as a result of the attack, 16 people were injured, two of them are in serious condition, the donetsk regional military administration reported. about 15 high-rise buildings were damaged in the area. three people were

injured as a result of the shelling of myrnograd on daughters this was reported to the regional police. the occupiers hit the city with four s-300 missiles. as a result of the attack , a school, a lyceum, shops, as well as 17 high-rise buildings, 13 private houses and cars in nivachyna were damaged. 16 years. in 16 years, two have arrived. we will come here after the war. to teach our children , well today i also looked, it’s still not bad, we change the windows , install doors, blackboards, desks, these are things that can be bought with money, and the most important thing is that our children are alive, healthy, it’s very scary, of course, it’s scary, this this is not the first time we have done all this we are worried, this apartment has already been attacked twice, the windows flew out from one side, only the repairs were made, now from the other, under...

the policemen evacuated a little girl and her parents from the village of new york in donetsk region under fire. this was reported to the regional police. currently, the family is safe, according to law enforcement officers, not all families can leave the frontline regions on their own. therefore, patrol officers go to such locations on call and help with evacuation. and in odesa , a woman died in a hospital who... waited from enemy shelling, so the number of victims increased up to 11, including a family of military personnel with a child. oleg and tetyana kravtsi met in the service, later the woman resigned to take care of her newborn daughter. little lisa was the only common child of the couple. at the end of february, the girl was only seven months old. tatiana had children from her previous marriage, and they are still being searched under the rubble. destroyed

high-rise building. the third spring in polonia. a large-scale action in support of prisoners of war is taking place on lviv square in kyiv. relatives and relatives demand to speed up the release defenders who have been in captivity for two years. similar promotions are also held in dnipro, kharkiv, vinnytsia and mykolaiv. let me remind you that according to the ministry of internal affairs , more than 3,500 ukrainians are in russian captivity. defenders they tried to flee ukraine illegally. border guards detained two evaders in odesa. the men planned to cross the anti-traffic ditch. they went down to it, but could not get out. they took out hot runners, law enforcement officers, the law enforcement officers drew up administrative reports on all of them.

unsuccessful attempt to get abroad. the evaders paid $5,000 each to the organizer of the illegal scheme. this was reported in the state border service. violators were to be accompanied to moldova by an observer. however, near the transnistrian segment in odesa region, six violators were detected by the border guards. reports were drawn up on the detainees. every day, border guards detain up to 25 men who try to flee ukraine illegally. this was stated by the spokesman of the state border service andriy demchenko. border guards patrol the ukrainian-romanian border with the help of drones, camera traps and patrol dogs. our correspondents will tell you how the border defense was strengthened. in this footage, men tried to enter illegally. to romania, they were detained

by transcarpathian border guards thanks to a patrol helicopter. some conscript citizens try to illegally leave ukraine using forged documents through official checkpoints. pass, however , cases on the green part of the border are more popular. on in the area of ​​responsibility of the state border there are border units that protect the state border. on the most dangerous routes, they are detained by the forces of the border guard. the border guards of the hrushevo branch guard the ukrainian-romanian border 24 hours a day, and every week they stop men trying to cross the tisza river. this river is a mountain river, it is very cold. at this time of year and plus to the coast of the romanian side, about 30-35 m. the current is very strong and unpredictable . the most common cases - it is with the help of a wetsuit to put on, so that it is not so cold, filling circles, children's

filling sleeves, mattresses, boats. even at the entrance to the border zone, 70% of men who try to leave ukraine illegally are stopped at checkpoints - said lesya fedorova, the spokeswoman of the mukachevo border detachment. to stop the flow of illegal migrants to romania, the state is sending protection of the green border. we use both manned aircraft and drones. in addition, we strengthened engineering barriers on the state road borders, we also actively use them, and they show themselves very well in photos. collisions, also installation of bispectral cameras, surveillance, uav operator, oleg igrak launches a drone into the sky, from a bird’s eye view, the border guard detects potential violators, for example, if everything is visible from above at night, if it is from a drone with a thermal camera,

she sees and can see through trees, through branches, after arrest, violators are taken to the department of state inspectors'. border service. it is common for men to flee abroad the so-called forwarders help. last year alone, border guards detained almost 60 such dealers. prices for their services start from 45 dollars and up to 9 thousand greens. the shippers themselves usually try not to contact their clients, because an attempt to illegally cross the border entails administrative responsibility, and as for the organization of such illegal crossings. then they incur criminal liability. since the beginning of the great war , 24 cases of death of men who tried were recorded in transcarpathia alone it is illegal to cross the state border, so border guards advise to refrain from such

extreme steps. kateryna oliynyk, oleg palyamar, espresso tv channel. artificial intelligence will help demining ukraine, the ministry of economy has signed. with the palantor technology company during a visit to great britain. according to the document, the company will provide a platform based on artificial intelligence to find and counter explosive devices. also, the machine will be able to analyze the information and recommend a safe method of cleaning the area. let me remind you, currently in ukraine more than 150 thousand square km remains mined. more money for... defense innovations this year , 1.5 billion hryvnias have been allocated in the budget for grants from brivan. this was announced by the minister of digital transformation mykhailo fedorov. developers of ground-based robotic platforms and drones that help on the battlefield will receive the funds.

ukrainian defense-tech developments received $3 million from brave one. these are 173 grants for developers who produce drones. reb vehicles, ground robotic platforms and other technologies needed on the battlefield. this year 1.5 billion hryvnias have been allocated in the budget for grants from brave one. there will be more innovations on the battlefield. glory to ukraine. hero slava and the espresso tv channel continue collecting fpv drones for a separate platoon of the sapsan unmanned aviation complexes of the state special transport service. these powerful soldiers are actively fighting in the donetsk direction, attacking and holding back the enemy. thanks to drones, they successfully destroy a lot of russian equipment, fortifications and manpower . so we have a goal to collect uah 1 million for flying weapons. there are already more than 700 00 in the accounts uah join our gathering, you can see all the details on the screen. that

's all i have, i tell you, until the meeting is already 8: you can always read more about important things on our website esreso tv. subscribe to our social channels. networks, be near! greetings, good evening, my name is myroslava barchuk, this is a program of its own name: a joint project of the ukrainian pen club and espresso tv channel. today we will talk about how we should remember the culture, the act of commemoration of the fallen heroes. there is a well-known opinion schopenhauer that a nation is formed. not from living commoners, but from dead heroes. it seems to me that this is a very deep thought that should

be remembered, taken into account, and in this context it is very important how we honor those who set this moral and ethical bar for us. today my guest, my guest is anton drobovich, director of the institute of national remembrance and a military man. anton, congratulations, my respect, good evening. we will talk separately. about the military cemetery later, yes, which for some reason took so long and in torment its idea was born and for some reason took so long is being implemented, yes, where are the dead soldiers buried now, but i will start with another question, and i will start with the question of the general memorial, the place of commemoration of our heroes, yes, let's call it a memorial or a pantheon, there is no difference, why in 30 years... in we did not have such a place to honor the heroes of different battles and different times,

instead we have a park of glory in the center of the city, which became a place of such soviet tributes and a place of soviet communist sabbaths, well, there are several reasons, first of all, because if we let's talk about duration like this actually of ukrainian statehood, where ukrainians really are the full owners of the process, so to speak, not a soviet pseudo-republic there, although it was supposedly sovereign under the constitution, but we all understand that it was just a colony of moscow, or a territory dependent on moscow, then in fact, 30 years for a state is not so much, so a nation that is trying to master itself, its space is symbolic, it needs time to build. that is, speaking of such comparable whales, but on the other hand, there are many

ukrainians, in particular intellectuals already in the 19th century felt that the ukrainian nation is a community that is traveling to itself for a very long time, and a part of society in the political class could have the idea and persistence to create such a memorial object in the 90s, even therefore, but we see that it never became a strong political thesis during the 90s. if we talk about places of memory, some places of memory have arisen, in particular, near the parliamentary library, there is a small memorial built by the city, by the way, dedicated to revolution, almost no one knows about him, but this is the heavenly hundred, this is the heavenly hundred, but simply the heavenly hundred and in general the memorialization of the heavenly hundred and in some sense became this place, this space of memory, to which this inquiry awakens, about what do you say, where is our great memory? where is our pantheon, so to speak, but from a conceptual

point of view, only the institute of national remembrance justified this idea somewhere after 2015, there were expert groups, and the cabinet of ministers approved the organizing committee, and even we prepared for volodymyr petrovych, it started, and it was already completed for me, we submitted the project and the memorial cemetery and the pantheon, well , so to speak, to... now the largest two most authoritative places, it is where now the arch of freedom of ukraine was renamed the former the arch of friendship of peoples is the first point, because it was successful in disposition, and it was initially discussed as one of the most likely locations, and the second location, we talked with the director of the lavra nature reserve, with mr. ostapenko and... near the lavra there is an ancient the kyiv locus, solyana hirka, where this

famous bishop pavlo of the moscow patriarchate built cedes, and pasha mercedes built some illegal buildings, and this locus is also considered as one of the possible locations for the construction of such a national pantheon, but so far the government it has not been accepted or reviewed for several months, several years. i understand the war now, the draft concept of this pantheon, because the logic was like this, which means that there is a three-level system of memory of military burial sectors in all of us there... there were four hundred of them in the 15th in the 16th year, that is, in all cemeteries there is a sector of military burials, this is the first level, the second level is the national military memorial cemetery, this is a large space near kyiv , which we will talk about further, and the third level is the national pantheon, a certain symbolic point in center, that is, this is the logic , this is the architecture of this memory system, it was proposed by the institute, in

principle it seems quite logical to me, of course it is somewhat classical, it is so... more classical, but considering that we do not have such infrastructure, it's very good, all kinds of innovative things, because now we actually have to build what you're talking about, and it's a classic for the nation, but in general, the world trends, that we're coming to a new culture of memories, so we have to finish this gestalt of the old, classic, and no longer hinder the creation of new memorials, for example, the cross of heroes memorial was recently opened, it was actually practiced in vyshgorod at the gcc, this is an example of such a modern one. memorial, and i have already said about glory park, which is located in the center of the city, in the center kyiv, yes, by the way, not far from the lavra , not far from the museum, the future museum of the holodomor, not far from this stele, which is now there, and this very place, this glory park

, was built back in 1957, and some ... the military, some ukrainians , some non-ukrainians, it seems that there are 24 graves there, the fact is that there is, there is an eternal fire, and this place, because it was not rethought, it became a place where the eyes passed on may 9, soviet communist pro-russian rallies, you remember how people walked from the square arsenal there under the red symbols , under the soviet symbols, and here i am all the time, what i think about, anton, i think all the time, looking at this place, about how, what is the place in the center of warsaw, the place of honoring the heroes of various soldiers and various era, this place on pilsudski square, in the center of warsaw, under

the colonnade of the saxon palace, there is a grave of an unknown soldier. yes, and it is written there: here lies a polish soldier who died for his homeland. the idea is to honor all those who died for poland. 18 shields there with the names of various battles decisive for for poland, and there are urns, 24 urns from 24 battlefields of the second world war, and the eternal fire, the guard of honor and so on. volodymyr. i was there, bowing to the memory of an unknown soldier, my question is so long, with a long lead to you, why we could not bury there in our park, the kyiv park of glory, bury the prag, from our soldiers from various battlefields and do it pantheon, it seems to me, it was

the best place of memory, and the place is a symbolic sign of commemoration of the unknown ukrainian soldier. i would just like to point out that the pantheon, at least in the concept that is currently being discussed, is not only a military pantheon, because the ukrainian community , the ukrainian nation, as well as the ukrainian space , is created not only by military glory, outstanding figures of art, scientists, creators, they are now a seriously discussed topic, so that the pantheon reflected these different stages of progress, and these were the great princes of the past, hetmans, writers, that is... representatives of different groups, and there is something in this. this does not mean that we do not need to have a separate war memorial, a proper, because the military memorial in the capital and the military memorial code are two different memorial objects and with two different functions, that's why it's just such a trailer, now why didn't we do this, it's a problematic question, why, because it

shows, in particular and our attitude as a community to the memory of the second world war, because the russians... narrated, all these skryponosci, they tried to instrumentalize the place of memory of the place of memory of the second world war, how to stop it, if it is the russian peace, soviet space and so on, they did not succeed until the end, for example, the museum of the second ukraine during the second world war, they tried very hard to create a space of such a soviet symbol from it, but they did not succeed, that is, the museum itself was closed, and the scientists said goodbye, and there was opposition to the place, so on the one hand 90-2000. years, no one would have even thought about it, because it was not a problematized memory of the second world war, after the 2000s, even after the adoption of decommunization laws in 2015, if you look carefully. in a package with utilities the laws were a package, there was a law of perpetuating the memory of the victory over nazism in the second world war, and this law is

a painting of all parties of the parliament at that time in that they do not touch the memory of the second world war, do not affect, that is, conscious compromise, the hall votes for decommunization, it is not ukrainian culture, so to speak, does not touch the topic of the second world war in a critical sense, well, in the sense of rethinking, because krinyi... in greek is weighing, yes, that is, it does not reconsider. thus, on the one hand, the decommunization legislation launched this process of eradicating the soviet , but on the other hand, they put a taboo on touching the topic of the second world war, that is, they were not afraid, they could not, they bargained, this is already the second question , that is, this topic of the second world war and a serious rethinking, it was fundamental for the russians, because this is part of the scrap, for a part of society this discourse never took place in the 90s, it turned out, well, everyone understands that this is an important memory, because we lost from eight to 10 million people in the second world war, it is not for us never disappeared the topic, but how to approach it, how to touch it, if

even the political leadership, the top president , the parliament could not touch this theme, and before the full-scale war they did not touch it, already only with the adoption of laws on the preservation of the imperial heritage, these fuses were actually removed, and now we can seriously talk about it, and before that no one touched it, not even the most great bright patriots who... alone tried, in particular the institute of national memory tried to raise this, but at the highest level it was all extinguished. well, i am i remember that viktor yushchenko dared to touch it. he, even speaking at this very museum of the second world war, he once invited soviet veterans and upa soldiers, he said that all the people who fought in the second world war for the independence of ukraine are our heroes. we honor them, and you remember what noise there was then, how people did not perceive, that is , society was not ready, not only the political class, society, well, and now we are ready, what hindered us after the 15th, 14th

year is to do, already these seem to be the sacredness of this fell, that's how this nonsense fell, and well, we already have 10 years of war, now what is there to be done, let's say there, after the 15th, sacredness did not fall, i'm talking about the laws, the decommunization laws are the 25th year, they fix the inviolability of this topic, look at how the architecture of this law looks like, except for the places associated with the memory of the second world war, except for the monuments of the second world war, everything is excluded, that is, this space was put on pause, well, don't throw it away, i no one is saying that in slavi park they should throw out the ashes from the graves, it is not necessary to bury them, so that it ceased to be only a soviet memorial. look, in order to change , that is, what does a healthy process of working with complex memory look like, we start a public discussion, scientists, society, civil

institutions of civil society with the support of the state, it lasts there for several years, maybe five years, yes, that is, he understands how, for example, questions are asked that the memorial should be changed to a series of memorials, the name should be changed, for example, not 4145, but 3945 and so on. it is an idea that is launched, the state has to support this discourse, not impose it the ban, yes, roughly speaking, that the monuments are not touched at all, they are untouched, but he says that it is necessary to rethink and fix it at the political level, but this was not done, accordingly, the first part is a public expert discussion, the second part - the state accepts the results of the public expert discussion, the third part - the state supports key objects, begins to finance and sets an example, then local self-government bodies have their place on the ground. memorial, this is how it should look, each of these stages can take several years, he was not launched in 2015, but we can only say for sure that

in the 19th and 20th we launched this discourse about the submission of the imperial heritage, which is called decolonization, and at the legal level we began to promote it, and here, the academic environment, the civil society, reacted to our, so to speak irritant, our request as a state, that is why this issue... now it is easier already after the start of the war, therefore, if this process does not happen by itself, leadership is needed here, because it can't, for example, let's imagine a person, an engineer, a biology teacher, or a salesman or a saleswoman or a professor there , i do not know medicine, they live their normal lives, no one thinks about what is there in the arsenal with the memorial, they know that the second world war is there, somehow it is connected with grandfathers and everything, grandfathers, grandmothers who fought, if someone does not initiate... this discussion, will not ask a valid question, why not rebury other heroes there, they are like that, well, yes, it is a good story, but this voice the one who asks this question should be the voice state, so that people are serious about this, this

was never done until... well, roughly speaking, in the 20th year, somewhere in the 22nd, when the threat of russia was already hanging in the air, and even before the symbolic spaces, the last question i will ask before talking about the military memorial complex is a fairy-tale , for me a fairy-tale cemetery, a fairy-tale cemetery is the principle of such value schizophrenia, yes, when opposite the dissidents, the graves of dissidents from... stus lytvyn and tikho cemetery burials some kagebian generals, that is, it just sounds like some kind of absurdity and sur, yes, when in front of the grave of mykolaichuk , a very modest one, stands such a snow-white marble figure of the executor or executor who killed the executor of the murder of gongadze, that is

, what to do with it when... this is the central central cemetery, and on the central alley , in fact, the entire central alley and all the most prestigious places, they are occupied, if not by kagabian generals and secretaries of the central committee of the communist party of ukraine, then with all due respect to football players , now and now they are of a completely different kind of value, so now they are football players and some people's deputies of the party of regions and so on, what to do about it, well, in such cases the best... since the issue of places of memory and places of burial, to be precise, is even more complex and delicate from the point of view of legislation than even places of memory, the best way is a special program or effort of the state to strengthen these loci related to, for example, we are currently discussing the restoration of lesya ukrainka's grave, the same fairy-tale fairy-tale center, well, it is not in proper condition, as for the level of such and such a person for

ours. society, accordingly, if the state, for example, about changes, will do the restoration of the alleys, will highlight , i.e. illuminate, modernize, put appropriate memorials there to hrushevsky, lesa and other figures, it will be this gesture that will change this symbolic space, but it is not only a good wish, it is a political understanding of this process, b) leadership , so that, for example , during the war, we will allocate a certain amount of funds from the budget for this, because no one is there, or plus the budget plus the patron, that is, it is... it is a political responsibility to say that it will be so, because it is right, and the third story is to allocate these funds somewhere for years the 90s, 2000s, 10s, everyone just talked about the fact that culture is important, even now a lot of people say that culture is important, it is a strategic area, but as soon as it comes to budgetary appointments, so that i simply do not say, that everything should be changed, but show, the state should set an example, it should say, here we have processed the top memorial, all local self-government bodies, business,

i think so, well, yes. this means it is important, because the state does not only talk, but does, then there was no one, the only exception was yushchenko, and only in projects related to the holodomor. yes, that is, in zayushchenko , words ceased to differ, matters ceased to differ in matters of memorialization, because a memorial was built in the first place, they were made all over the country, but it was only a drop in the ocean , it was only the beginning, so it was never systematic , unfortunately, in the field of culture, and i would also comment on, uh, ... the schopenhauer quote with which you started this conversation, the fact is that this is the reason that a nation is made up of dead heroes, but if the nation will consist only of the dead heroes, it will turn into some kind of antique, not a living nation. it is important for us to have a nation that remembers, honors and in a symbolic space records the importance of such beacons from the past, the light they send forward into the future, records these

heroes, these outstanding figures. of the past, but makes them a part of living life, a living discussion, society, scientists, states, because if this does not happen, well, we will have beautiful folios and dead memorials that simply no one will go to, but we need to figure out how to legislate it, connect, yes actually this one the bar that the heroes set for us, and in this sense, and i want to continue your point, specifically about the neglect of the graves, let's say, you said about lesya, there are many other graves. ukrainian writers, such repressed writers, historical figures who are now in a very neglected state, i had a discussion with my polish colleagues, we were arguing about some historical facts, and my polish colleague said: you just go and see to the grave