dry weather will prevail in ukraine. good evening, we are from ukraine. welcome to the espresso channel. today in our program war and weapons. we will once again talk about what new technologies are on the battlefield of ukraine. s army is already using, or will use in the near future, and this time in more detail about ground robotic platforms, a number of our defense and industrial companies have even united under the slogan "we must fight with robots, but not with people." and in the ministry of strategic industries recently stated that there is an extremely urgent need for platforms that can be converted for medical evacuation and our domestic developments. at the training ground, the niks demonstrated

their robotic platforms for evacuating the wounded from the battlefield to military medics. but what is the distance between the demonstrators of such robotic systems and real actions on the battlefield, which should and can accelerate the appearance of perfect and already serial samples, and do our developers really imagine the conditions in which these platforms will carry out their missions, if there are explosions, eruptions around from. from above enemy fpv drones are on fire, a minefield underfoot or tracks. so, we will talk about all this, about new technologies of war, about possibilities and limitations , both with the developers and with those who will use this military hi-tech. my name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the defense express information and consulting company, which is currently working together with the espresso channel to cover the most relevant events in life. our army and

the defense-industrial complex. and now the first guest joins us oleksandr yabchanka joins, this is the senior lieutenant of the honor company of the vovka devinci battalion. mr. oleksandr, welcome to the espresso channel. glad to hear but can't see live right? glory to ukraine, i hear you. glory to heroes. mr. oleksandr, you are an ardent supporter of the use of new technologies on the battlefield, about the need for this direction. we talked to you about a year ago, and during that time many different and interesting events took place, so i would like to hear from you how you would evaluate this year, how quickly these new ones are being implemented technologies into the life of the ukrainian army, just on the example of your unit, and do you have such a positive experience that can be scaled to other units, to other brigades? well, let's ask a few.

questions, so let's start with the first question about the loyal supporter and what, let's say in medical terms, what are the dynamics of the process? the dynamics of the process is undoubtedly positive, if a year ago, in principle, it was more our image of what is obvious, ah, to fight ... better with robots than with people, this is an obvious thesis, with no one particularly argued about it, they only argued about how to do it, then, in a year's time, we already have many options for solving this problem, how to move from human warfare to robot warfare, since there are a huge number of difficult prerequisites. let's call them

problems that need to be solved in order for this to happen. now i will actually describe what we are talking about, what a robot should do instead of a person. these are functions, these functions are clear to every army person, and in principle, they are quite simple to understand for people from non-military subjects. the first function is logistics, everything that happens on the front line, everything that shoots, everything that is there... uh, people live there, people eat food, uh, people fight, that is, shoot, there you need food , water, bull, this is all in the vast majority of cases people carry with their hands, er, the logistics function must be closed, must be closed by ground robotic complexes, and we see a lot. there are many prototypes that

can theoretically do this and in some places they are already doing it at the front. the second function is the evacuation, which you mentioned in the... of our conversation, this is also already happening, of course, not massively, but there are cases when combat units do it directly, and there are many proposals for these combat units, as to how it can be done, the third function is demining, the fourth is demining , this also happens at the front, and there are many offers, many, not many, there are offers from the factory. let's put it this way, and then the fire damage function, well, you see a lot of prototypes of robotic complexes on the internet, which can not only close logistics, evacuation, but they can also

to inflict fire damage on the enemy , which is nice, because a year ago i was familiar with only one company engaged in this, today there are already... let's say several, in other words, we also have positive dynamics, regarding the products themselves, believe me, for year, they progressed, and the positive dynamics regarding the number of those who produce them, in other words, there is already internal competition, and you know, this is very ukrainian, on the one hand, internal competition, on the other hand, all people contribute, here i am when i get into an environment where manufacturers meet... despite the fact that they are, well, like competitors, they communicate well on the subject of technology, that is, it is not this nonsense that we came up with, we will not tell anyone, on the contrary, and now actually , summarizing what has been said, the dynamics of the process are positive, but in order for us to really

move from a war with people to a war with robots, we still need to take many, many very difficult steps technically. and administratively, and administratively and legally too, so first of all we must thank everyone involved in this, who in this process, the manufacturer is included, well , developers, military manufacturers, and in the weather, you very correctly noted, and what is the distance from the manufacturer to the soldier, initiatives such as b1, they simply shorten this distance. to a direct handshake , because i, as a representative of its combat unit, have learned from davinshi, who have been implementing this for more than a year, i communicate directly with the manufacturers, and our communication is on the topic, that is, i say, look, how can

this problem be solved, they give solution options, we test, and then if that or another version of the solution is effective, they apply it, very... it is good that there are still manufacturers in the history of weapons, because the distance between the inventor and the manufacturer should also be as short as possible, and this is the trio, the one who fights, the one who the one who releases also comes up with it, it should be as much as possible, well, these people should simply work together, which actually happens on the bryvan platform, and of course it is very good that there are holders of authority who are ready to... to help stakeholders to do their work more effectively, and therefore the overall impression is positive, of course, we still have to work and work, and i just emphasize, let's not make

excessive expectations from this, no, we will not start fighting with robots in the 25th year with the whole army, right? let's not come up with ee, well, impossible dreams, er, sorry, this is not the story that you took a wise book, read and do as it is written in this wise book, we are now writing this book, and to write such books, as the doctrine of changing military, well as as changing military doctrine, it's sorry, well no, not very quickly, so we have to make... maximum efforts, or we understood that doctrine as quickly as possible and implemented it as quickly as possible, and for that all those participants in the process that i mentioned, in addition to thanks, we must also wish them to move even faster. mr. oleksandr, you were present literally

that week, if i am not mistaken, where minstratekhprom and our developers were showing these platforms that can be used to evacuate the wounded, what will you see there... are there samples that can already be taken tomorrow transfer to divisions, whether the developers still need something substantial or do not need to complete? well, first of all? there are samples that could even be seen in enemy publics, that is, there are some platforms, the enemy has already noticed them, and it is obvious that if the enemy noticed them, then they are already in use, we just have to realize that we are doomed to run half-corps ahead technically of the enemy if we are to win this war, and we obviously are. er, there are intelligent

developers, there are brave units that are ready to implement these developments, er, that is, there is something to work with, ah, you just have to to scale this experience as much as possible, in other words , as long as there were more units like ours, we encourage, we invite , combat units, let us have representatives, we will teach you what we know ourselves, we constantly communicate with those combat units that use, we exchange experience, you know, the more effective this networking will be, the sooner we will make this technological revolution military, mr. oleksandr, and there are such formalized requirements for such robotic platforms from the general staff, because sometimes the impression is that each team... and at its own discretion, on its own vision, creates a sample and then offers it to the military, you said

that there is a certain dialogue in the relationship, but still, is there any formal basis for our did the developers know which way to go and what these or other divisions expected from them? you see, you asked a very good question, in my opinion, after all, this basis, this basis, it should ... become directly the one who will use this technique based on the results of the field tests, and according to the results of tests on the frontline, which the general staff did very well, he, these grassroots initiatives that appeared more than a year ago... he first of all, well, prescribed them, we have a separate one, these are

unmanned system, and it's wonderful , in other words, you know, it's a very cossack story, when you, as a free person, can come up with something while being in the army, it's a very regulated structure, a very hierarchical structure, but when you show some initiative in the ukrainian army, how do you feel at least no one bothers, summing up the answer to this question: it should not come from the general staff from top to bottom, do it like this, it is the general staff that hears how they work in the fields, and is, well, just ready to help in this, so i look at this whole story very positively, well, with hope, with optimism near-earth robotic complexes, around unmanned aerial vehicles, because we have a good interaction between a soldier and a person... with big epaulettes, that is, of course we have complications of a bureaucratic nature, i don't think you

are interested in hearing about them, but the most important thing , which is this distance from the operator directly of the ground-based ground-based robotic complex , to the person in the general staff who makes the decision , she first of all has this contact, he is there because of all kinds of initiatives, this is a very ukrainian story, and of course, we would ideally like him to be there, so that everything happens faster, but let's be realistic, a year ago we only talked about the fact that it would be good to somehow try to fight with the latest technologies on the ground. today, we already have quite a few prototypes, and some already have direct combat experience, operators, and some prototypes already modernized as a result of their work on the front lines. therefore, the dynamics are positive, let 's accelerate if possible, but

the most important thing, for god's sake, do not stop, mr. alexander, i asked the guest editors very much for you to participate in this program, because relatively speaking, your unit acts so certain, well a generator of ideas and tries to push the manufacturers, create certain samples and so that these samples get to your unit for use, so it was with this module. by the saber module, which is used by your unit, now i hope that certain robotic platforms will come to you, and what will be the formal side, you use a module, you don't... learn experience, then you write certain recommendations, these recommendations go to the developer and maybe now will go before this to the command of the new military disembodied systems, so that this experience can be scaled there, this formal side of the matter has already been established, is it effective, does it work, are there any results? well, you answered this question a year ago

it was a saber, you know, some kind of super, well, strange. it's just a story, but i was often told in the comments that listen, it 's a good idea, but it won't work, so now it's already, well, now it's already a reality on the front, there are excellent use of these ground robotic complexes, the third assault , well done, there are more such units that are included in this process, so we can leave in terms of dynamics. of course, it is better, just the more units there are that work directly with the manufacturer, as you asked how it works, i'll tell you how it works, the way it works is that me and the manufacturer of the saber turret and the lynx platform

just shook hands and said, guys, you have something that we can fight with, give us , be a weasel, and we'll just announce that we need it, we're ready for it, well, it's a certain risk, because when you take some new technology to war, you're still taking a risk, well, because it may not to work, and well, it will be a risk for you personally, accordingly, we are taking a certain risk, but you be kind to us too go to meet, that is, give us what we have to risk, and they are very clear, i will tell you that part of the saber. that we received, we received from the manufacturers , summarizing what has been said, the manufacturers are mostly interested in giving these products to us directly for testing, even if they desperately need money, well, because you understand that, it’s not about making money, but as about the dynamics of production. conventionally speaking,

if you find money for a prototype, you then need to find money for at least a few more prototypes. and as you understand, not easy to find money for it, but we, as the commander of her unit, perceive it also as a personal task, i need to find a donor for the manufacturer, if i succeed in this, great, the manufacturer perceives this task in the same way, he needs to find a donor, to give me your product, and when we work so synchronously, it succeeds, of course it doesn't always succeed, of course it doesn't succeed on such a scale as we would like, but listen, dream about the impossible, and at least part of it will succeed. mr. oleksandr, thank you very much for the inclusion, for your explanation, we will dream about the impossible and to seek practical solutions on the battlefield. let me remind you that my co-deputy was oleksandr yapchanka, the senior lieutenant

of the honor company of the vovka devinci battalion, and this unit is trained precisely for you... to implement technological solutions in order to conduct combat operations with the enemy, relying on the capabilities provided by robotics platforms, and saber-type modules, and other samples that allow you to destroy the enemy, at the same time, when the fighter remains in maximum safety, this should be ensured technology itself, then we will talk about how to create samples of such unmanned systems that are needed on the battlefield, but here we will rather talk not about the technical parameters of this or that product, but about what slows down or what needs to be changed , so that this process of creation was much faster, more dynamic and met the needs that the military itself is currently forming, about all this after the information and advertising block. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already

approached the serpent himself. next frames you may be shocked. news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks live , political analysis objectively and meaningfully, there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front, svobolaya frankly and impartially, you draw your own conclusions, vasyl zima's big broadcast, two hours of airtime, two hours your: time, two hours to learn about the war and what the world is like, two hours to keep up with economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of your favorite presenters, presenters that many... have become like distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening.

we continue our war and weapons program, which focuses on the review of technological solutions used by our military on the battlefield. in the first part, we talked about how the military themselves see such samples, why they need them, and now we will talk with companies. by representatives of companies with industrialists who create such samples, because actually now, if we read there the message of the minister of techprom is that the numbers are there, then formally everything is fine with us, the number of drones is increasing, the profit margins are increasing, the potential of the company is expanding, but in any case, everything is the same , the manufacturers have a number of basic questions for our customers, there are a number of proposals, and now we are joined by... kateryna mikhalko, this is the executive director of the association of technological forces of ukraine. mr. kateryn, mrs. kateryna, i congratulate you, glad to see and hear. good day.

thank you very much for the invitation. on the website of your association, technological forces of ukraine wrote that phrase that i already used in a conversation with the military, about the fact that you need to fight with robots, but not with people. and precisely due to the use of technologies, your association strives. to preserve the life and health of as many ukrainians as possible, i would like you to tell our viewers in a little more detail what the purpose of the association of technological forces of ukraine was created, when it was created, what enterprises are part of it, what is its goal it puts itself, ugh, you are absolutely right when you said that they are the newest technologies today, they help, firstly, bring our victory closer. to give priority on the front line, and it is also important that they help save and preserve the lives of our military, because part of the operations that are performed by humans can be

performed effectively by drones today, but it is important for the state to purchase these drones efficiently and predictably and to ensure that the ukrainian the companies we had stayed here, did not go abroad and only increased their capabilities, for this the technological forces of ukraine appeared. we help with its analytics, state authorities to shape their policies there in such a way that the conditions for conducting defense business in ukraine are more comfortable. and how many enterprises are now part of your association, what is the specialization of these enterprises, do they participate in the implementation of a state defense order, and how are these members of your association? currently , the association has more than 20... enterprises, some of them have been supplying weapons to the front line since the 14th year, some of them appeared recently, all of them are united by one idea,

this is the application of the latest technologies on the fund line, that is, every product manufactured by these enterprises has some kind of innovation inside, that is, whether the software is unique or the use of artificial intelligence or some specific developments that relate specifically to cases and hardware components. but all these are the latest models of weapons. and i know that you conducted a survey among the enterprises that are part of your association, where you sought to identify the most problematic or bottlenecks in the development of the enterprises themselves, in cooperation with customers, and you described it as a certain pyramid of industry pains, so i'd like to hear from you, what are our manufacturers suffering from right now, what are they most worried about? what systemically worries them, what needs to be changed? the first and most important thing is the predictability of orders, because it is already

the month of march and part of the enterprises that manufacture weapons, drones, which have already proven their effectiveness on the front line, have not yet been contracted, and this is an absolute disaster for the private sector, because in order to exist with this production , in order to to support your teams, of course you need to have working capital. that's it for now. a big challenge, because some enterprises simply do not understand when they receive contracts and whether they receive them at all. it is very important for the state to plan the purchase of weapons for 2-3 years. currently, the maximum amount of planning that the private sector receives there is 6-2 months. it shouldn't be like that. the second thing i would say is localization. it is very important that we have preferences for local arms manufacturers, because for the last 30 years, the rules of the game were such that... all preferences received imported infectious weapons, i.e. to manufacture abroad, it is more profitable and more comfortable , it should not be like this, there should be an advantage for ukrainian manufacturers, and thirdly, let me

say that it is important to integrate the ukrainian market into the world market, so if some manufacturers do not receive orders from ukraine as states, then it is important to allow exports so that they can transfer their technological samples of weapons to our friendly countries, partner states and thus bring currency to the country, and about these problems, i think you talked to the representatives probably also the ministry of statistics, the minister of technology and industry, the ministry of defense, what is the reaction to the fact that these moments, which are painful and difficult for manufacturers, need to be regulated in some way, is there any positive feedback from our officials? in fact, i am very grateful to the government that they are listening to the industry, and already a lot of deregulation has happened in the last two years, and that is, the rules of the market cannot be compared to what was before, that is, there is

a positive ... direction of activity and law-making in the government and including in the parliament, but simply the volume of problems is so great and we haven't had a reform of this industry for so long that of course it takes some time. you talked about the fact that it is necessary to seek the export of products, if they are not completely bought by the ministry of defense or other power structures. to what extent are there such... a political moment that, relatively speaking, how can we export, when we ask our partners to supply and sell weapons to us, how can we bypass this trap, which is ideologically created around this issue? well, i would like to say a few important things on this topic: the first is that it is not an export reduces the amount of weapons that ukrainian companies can produce, on the contrary , it increases this amount, because when companies...

receive additional capital, they can increase their capabilities, therefore exporting products abroad does not reduce the amount of weapons that ukraine will have inside. secondly, let me say that , for example, in such fields as the production of drones, we have made great progress, we have many different models, and objectively not all of them are needed by our army, because they have different functions, or ukraine is not always has such an amount of funds to buy back all the batches, so this surplus production would be... expedient to be allowed to export, there are other categories of technologies in which ukraine does not have such a large capacity to manufacture them, and it is these that are usually requested by our western partners, that they provide us with technical assistance, but it depends very much on the category, technology and type of product. and going back to the question that you raised in bol's list and what, relatively speaking,

local or... local producers feel itself in worse conditions than foreign suppliers, it concerns the determination of the price, conditions of purchase, what are the peculiarities established for our manufacturer and supplier of foreign-made products? uh, for example, the limitation of the cost of products does not apply to import suppliers, that is, they simply submit their price offer, and if these weapons are needed... we buy them in ukraine. for ukrainian manufacturers, this is cost regulation, it is very rigid and uncomfortable. and this, this amount there, profit, what companies receive is not enough to make reinvestments in new technologies. therefore, it is the main pain there that the import suppliers have much more resources to invest in the latest developments, and these resources later. another aspect

on which it is more difficult to influence, how about the state, is that ukrainian manufacturers, they are under fire and they are very often a target for the russians, and that means it imposes certain security risks, of course, on the teams that manufacture weapons, and it would be nice if the state helped, for example, with underground facilities and somehow made additional subsidies so that these underground facilities could be used as production, i would also like to... point out the persecution of law enforcement agencies, which happens due to the fact that the legislation in ukraine is not always unambiguously, for local business there is a risk of these persecutions, which are not always expedient, of course, when we are talking about arms importers to ukraine, they do not have this risk of ambiguity of ukrainian legislation. that is, it is actually possible to claim that such a reality is, well, conditionally speaking, i would even push it.