have a lot of supporters, and then we will call russia and simply set its condition , such thoughts arise, but lihui, according to the south china morning post, which followed his european visit, there repeated russian narratives in his conversations with his european colleagues, while on his previous tour he was much more forward-looking, you can explain what - explains this change of position towards precisely supporting the russian idea of ​​how the war should continue and end. i will tell you honestly that i am i don't see a change in position at all, both from the beginning and now. china is doing this in order to achieve its chinese interests, and for and for chinese interests, and what they call the ukrainian conflict or crisis must be ended, because china is stopping its uh... efforts to make

global economic expansion, and the continuation war, as they say, it starts already, well, they do not see anything that would indicate that it is possible to advance somewhere by military means, and therefore there is no change, they want, they say what they want to hear in moscow, i know, insider information from their own. the chinese, they all see moscow as something so crazy that it can start a nuclear war, which china absolutely does not want to even think about, so they tell russia what it wants to hear, in fact, in fact, china does not stop trying and thinks that leaves in order to...

create a bipolar world, china, the united states, and now a lot needs to be done for this, for example, at the session of the supreme council of the people's republic of china, and the chinese national people's congress, prime minister litsyan made a report where the goal of the new five-year plan will be 5.5%, which means economic growth, and at the same time. the military budget, it will be a record , it will be increased by hundreds, and it will reach 231 billion hryvnias, that is, we are doing everything to strengthen the economy, and we are looking for new productive forces, as sydzenpin said last year and now repeated to the airmen, and at the same time we are increasing the military budget. be ready for any

situation. mr. igor, you said that china is interested in russia's war in ukraine stopping as soon as possible, they they think moscow is not full of reason, and so on. but nevertheless, to immediately drag moscow to the first round of any peace negotiations is to actually allow it to continue the mantra once again, and here mr. vitaly will now remind me that there is nazism. deratization , decontamination, i’m sorry, please, i can’t twist these words, to be honest, so what, does it give us at least some options for getting out of the situation, that is, china’s desire for yours is, in principle, understandable and may even very right, but at the same time what he is doing now the chinese representative does not in any way pave the way for the realization of these wishes, well , they think... in other words, they think

that if you bring russia and ukraine to the negotiating table, then a process will begin, which will end in peace, you understand , and i will also tell you that this is not necessarily something that we should perceive as something absolutely true, that negotiations with diplomacy are two sides, whose position, therefore, is clearly formulated, approved on the mountain. tries to make the other side on at the negotiating table , she voluntarily gave up her position and took your position, these negotiations are diplomatic, and their goal is exactly that, that's why he is cunning, he is playing this one, that means the proposal and looks at the reaction, he will not leave, because otherwise it is impossible to to find out in which direction it will go, means the development of events, if it is not done as we wanted. let's go, you understand, so here

we definitely cannot talk about what china is promoting, it is not promoting anything, and turkey is not promoting, by the way, they also want russia to participate in... a peace conference, in which one exactly, i can't specify, but the narrative is the same, for some reason we believe that these are russian narratives, nothing like that, russia has its narratives, and china has its own, and it is more profitable for it that this thing they call a rat ends no matter how quickly and otherwise, i closed the negotiations, fasting the parties, nothing will move, and everything, it's easier, huh. and tell me, do you understand why all this is happening right now, because liuhui took a break for quite a long time after his last tour, after the contacts of president zelenskyi with the head of the people's republic of china xi jinping, about whom we have almost forgotten, why is this such an important topic again, well

, he is not the one who invents these topics, he received the command and went, there they think that yes, once the phase or... . have already entered a phase, as they believe, well, in military actions, which do not see any prospects behind them at all, then it is necessary to move the process from its place with this very negotiation process, that is why the necessity was ripe, which spilled into lihuey's team to go again and again, it means that i can't do anything else to break through this question not to speak... can't express any other opinion than what i've already said. ugh. and tell me, please, mr. igor, there is such information that russia could be preparing, or at least thinking about a nuclear strike on the territory of ukraine in 2022, and we

talked a lot about the possibility that even china became a safeguard, an additional, perhaps , for the russian federation not to do this. is there a position now? china, again, decisive in this matter for the russian federation? well, at least i am deeply convinced that russia is largely dependent on positions of china in all issues, including issues of international security, and naturally listen to the opinion of the chinese leadership, which has already been repeatedly expressed in various documents, including a year ago , svidzimpin's visit to moscow in march, where it was clearly stated, it was the insistence of the chinese side, that there are no possibilities for the start of nuclear, the use of nuclear weapons cannot even be in thoughts, this position has not

changed, they clearly orientate russia towards that, god forbid, they use nuclear weapons, you know that russia has... nuclear ones, china has 200 or something there, well, how can it be compared, so nobody in china needs a nuclear threat at all, and this is an unchanging position, and thank god what they are doing what the whole world requires to restrain aggressive plans and threats of nuclear weapons, so that... china can influence russia here? i think that it has a very good influence and can influence russia, and not only on this issue, but also on other issues, such as those that were discussed during the briefing for the doctor in

office of the president, the ministry of foreign affairs, this is demilitarization, de-occupation of the zaporizhzhya nuclear plant. and the grain corridor and many other things, they, of course, stick to their position, and they put in their position this main meaning, it is necessary to stop fighting, and moreover, none of them says that let's stop now, as russia suggests, and in fact ... these territories that are occupied, let them remain in the composition of russia, nothing like that lihui was even asked, and he clearly confirmed that no, no, no, we do not advocate for this, we advocate for preserving the territorial integrity of ukraine and stopping this, as they call it,

conflict, and nothing changes there, but tell me what you think, and what is territorial integrity in general, but president erdogan, let's say, clearly says that he recognizes territorial integrity. ukraine considers crimea to be ukrainian, and it is absolutely obvious what it means, and when china talks about the territorial integrity of ukraine, it never details what it means. after all, crimea and donbas are ukrainian territory from the point of view of china or no, we have never heard that , we have not heard it, we have heard it, china said a long, long time ago that it does not recognize crimea as russian, does not recognize otsi, that means the donetsk and luhansk republics, although there were of course some points that can be counted for allegedly supporting this position regarding the territorial one. this is without crimea, i mean, when a singer sang in mariupol

in a looted theater and so on, it happens like that, but the official position was clearly expressed: crimea, ukraine, donetsk, luhansk regions, ukraine, and no others positions china does not adhere to, at least officially. thank you, mr. igor, igor lytvyn, ambassador of ukraine to the people's republic of china in 1999-2001, co-chairman of the ukrainian-chinese business council, we were in touch and we talked about the last tour of the special representative of the people's republic of china lihui to kyiv to the european capitals before that, lihui visited moscow, spoke there with representatives of the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation, we tried to understand what this chinese tour is connected with. now we are with khrystyna let's break literally for a few. praised, but please do not switch, we will continue our dialogue. every week, the saturday

political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club. every saturday at espresso.

we continue the saturday political club, khrystyna yatskiv vitaly portnikov, for an hour we

will talk with mr. vitaliy about things which remain between the term, which are still important to emphasize. we just had a conversation about likhoe, his visit to kyiv, before that visit to the russian federation and in the european capital, there is an understanding that china wants to understand, to check the clocks, maybe, but something similar in reality. the president of turkey, recep tayyip erdogan, also demonstrated , he said that i would like russia and ukraine, and us, as a negotiating platform, and all this is understandable. president zelensky, his meeting with erdogan, we understand that it was not only a bilateral meeting of the presidents, but also coordination of defense ties. that is, after all, turkey is a little different from china in this position, it is looking for opportunities, probably, to help ukraine. well, to a certain extent, where... it does not contradict, let's say, her interest in relations with the russian federation. the russian federation calmly looks at a certain supply of weapons from

turkey, because at the same time, turkey opens up for russia those opportunities that western countries do not open for it. and honestly, i don't know what would be better. you can it would be better if turkey did not supply us with any weapons, but would close the possibility for russian oligarchs to have their money in turkish banks, for putin's relatives and friends to have villas in turkey, that is, in fact , turkey is helping russia to get rid of f'. effect and together with that we will get some weapons there, well, this is such a compensation, a lot, you can, a lot, in fact, even the same kirpy cars that our marines drive, it is really important. this is always a question, where is this balance, imagine that any western country would give us a lot of weapons and no and no introduced sanctions against russia, we thought it was treason, and from turkey it is somehow, well, what can you do, it is from turkey, but in fact turkey is a member of nato, it is part of the western world, it should have behaved completely differently, but it does not behave, and this also

a very important moment in this whole story, regarding the talks between the presidents of turkey and ukraine, you see. that they completely differed from the point of view of how everything should happen, the president believes that ukraine and russia should talk to each other in istanbul or ankara, and the president zelensky follows this scenario: a peace formula, the states turn to russia, then russia is invited or not to the peace summit, the next one, and there they will talk with whoever is ready... to talk constructively, as far as i understand, this is not president putin, and this is such a world that does not exist, it may exist in the imagination of volodymyr zelensky, that such a world should be, it is a world of justice, but we do not live in a world of justice, we live in a world of war, injustice, aggression, and this is a much less comfortable world than in our heads politicians, uh, and this must also be realized,

in relation to china and in relation to turkey, it seems to me that they are simply measuring the temperature of the water after the ukrainian offensive ended and the russian offensive began, that is, is ukraine ready to realize that it is not will return its territories, what is needed, agree to the russian conditions, that is, if you want to save something, then you can use our services to fulfill the russian conditions, because the future will only be worse for you, this is actually what they say in ankara and what they say in beijing, you don't need to invent some... such complicated motives that today, i don't think we can agree with it for one simple reason: i don't believe at all that russia will go to any negotiations, i believe that this is precisely the chinese and turkish desire, because it would be good for china if ukraine remained in the role of such

a great belarus, became such a lukashenko country, because another european... country is in the orbit of china, and this is guaranteed by the russian role here, it has always been and will be, she it is simply necessary from the point of view of creating this bipolar world, because we already understand how china sees this bipolar world, russia, ukraine, belarus, and relatively speaking, there are hungary, slovakia, as friendly countries, you saw that viktor orban also communicates with chinese leaders. and i don't understand how it fits into the fact that he is there communicating with donald trump at the same time, how he explains it to donald trump, well, i don't know, well , the kind of person who can explain a lot to someone, let's not dwell on it, it's like moment, another moment, which is also very it is important that russia does not need all this, russia does not need any lukashenko's ukraine, and i will tell you honestly, and lukashenka's belarus,

the russians are just waiting until eventually they finish off lukashenka sooner or later, he can simply go anywhere physically. look, this is a very specific imperial scheme, roman, uh, like in rome there were some kings in the provinces, and these provinces were states while these kings were alive, because rome considered them important allies, they actually did him a lot of favors , ugh, and rome agreed that there could be egypt, or judea, kingdoms, and when these kings died, rome simply turned these... states into its provinces, ordinary ones, because it did not need this statehood, it was just a gift, so to speak say, from the emperor , to another ally there, and from belarus, i think that when lukashenko's term in office, or his physical life, ends, russia can simply annex belarus, join it to itself, and that's the history of belarusian statehood in principle

will end, well , there may be a nominal part of the union state where nothing is white'. it won't happen, even the way it was during the times of the soviet union, it won't happen, and the same should be expected of ukraine, but when putin was going to put yanukovych and medvedchuk here, i think, then hand over power to yanukovych, i even believe that he could agree with the existence of such a reduced loyal ukraine, but exactly until the moment medvedchuk needs it, this is such a gift, you will have ukraine. and when there is no putin and no there will be medvedchuk, then this part of the union state will simply hold some kind of session there, i'm sorry, not every thai, all-russian gathering. people's representatives and you will then inform about the unification of all these three states into one, a very simple program, and therefore the russians will not agree to the chinese proposal, they will fight as much from

their point of view as is necessary to destroy the very possibility of ukraine to an independent state development, ugh, and ukraine between the west and russia is no longer needed, because it was a mistake of the bolsheviks to leave such a ukraine, and they have already understood that when you leave it like that, then it... starts to kick itself, and putin says absolutely clearly that he wants to correct the mistakes of the bolsheviks, who created these all-union republics in the first place, and it must be understood that putin this is what she thinks since the 90s of the 20th century , there is nothing new here, i think i told you that i heard for the first time these thoughts that ukraine should leave the soviet union without the gifts of the bolsheviks in 1991, anatoly sobchak, i was. putin's political teacher, who came here to kyiv at the head of a delegation of the union parliament to find out our intentions, and there it all sounded from him, all

these ideas of our compatriots with you, that it happened in 2022, the 14th year, the fourth year, but if we, so to speak, breathed evenly and did not insult putin, then nothing would have happened, this is an amazing childish illusion, because it was never considered. that this state in this territory should exist for a long time, it was just choosing the best moment to destroy it, as putin said, now we know from this book, the last politician , cia director robert berys, now is the best moment to destroy the ukrainian state, because in his opinion , the authorities of volodymyr zelenskyi have shaken the state institutions so that they will not be able to stand up, which was a wrong assessment, by the way, if we let's see first. a place of war, because there will not be, there is no obvious european leadership and no one will be able to read, so putin had absolutely

clear ideas that it would be easy for him in this particular situation, he is like a predator if sees that the victim is weaker, it is necessary to simply finish this story, if it did not happen in the 22nd year, putin. said that maybe we are not as weak there as he thought, it happened on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, it doesn't matter, it is still an inevitable process, just as the process with crimea was inevitable, because we are talking about 2000 is the 14th year as something extraordinary, but russia was preparing a special operation to annex crimea back in 1994, when the pro-russian president mishkov mishkov was there. the government from citizens of the russian federation, the administration of the president from citizens of the russian federation, moscow time , what was it, some kind of game, and where was putin, tell me where was putin, there was no putin, putin was

in st. petersburg, and before that the verkhovna rada of the russian federation passed a resolution on the russian status of sevastopol, ukrainians all this was ignored, because for the vast majority of them the capital was in moscow even then, not then, but then. was still in moscow, and they just thought that it was all there, well, what, does it matter where this crimea is, well, because we had only been in one for two years state, in the cis, well, it didn’t seem like any kind of threat, and when the war started, when we already felt like a real state, it was , of course, much more acutely perceived by many people, especially those who grew up in the absence of an alternative, that this is ukraine and they have never been to the soviet union. union, and those who were, also perceive it differently, they perceive it with disappointment, not with surprise, that how come, they were all together, and then suddenly they kill us, so these are

all completely understandable processes, and from this point of view, i say again, china this he simply does not understand that for russia this is not a story about statehood, but maybe he understands , he pretends to, do you remember this ambassador of china in france said that the former soviet republics have limited. well, he said it out loud, well, that is, one should not think that a person in such a position is some kind of low-spirited person and simply says everything that they want to say to him, it was such a cautionary signal that you will understand how we look at it, that we we also believe that this is not up to the state, but we cannot say it at a high level, so let the ambassador say it, we we will refute, but the signal was obvious, the west heard it, this is also an important point. mr. vitaly, you said that russia, when it wants to finally seize the former soviet republics, can go to the beheading, yes, or remove the nominal

leader. belarus is lukashenko, but this week there was an assassination attempt on the president of ukraine and the prime minister of greece in odesa, is it something similar, or are there completely different motives? well, look, russia really expected and will expect that after may 2024 it will be possible to resort to certain destabilizing actions, saying that the president of ukraine has exhausted his powers, is an illegitimate president, there is no legi'. power, and it will also work with this history, that is why i believe that, by and large, we would need a clear explanation of the constitutional court, regarding this situation and so on, so that there would not even be any opportunity to question the legitimacy power after 2000 may 2024, but on the other hand we clearly understand, and it surprises me that many of our compatriots does not realize that the simplest...

method of solving this problem is the physical elimination of the president, all the more convenient in a situation when he, as if he has constitutionally exhausted authority, that is, to combine this propaganda campaign with real action, because imagine , that the president of ukraine dies during such an attempt, well, this means that the chairman of the verkhovna rada becomes the head of the verkhovna rada while performing the duties of the president, but again, look at the verkhovna rada. already now there are not enough votes in the majority, so they are there this week under on the pretext that they can't, they have to go to the front and look at the dugouts, they don't work, we understand that this is just a profit, they simply don't have enough people, and this is also primarily, by and large, already a demonstration of the crisis, now imagine a simple situation: the president dies, and

the supreme... the council cannot elect an acting president, because it does not have the necessary quorum for this, what do all the institutions look like, well, no way, a collapse is a collapse, you can of course form the supreme council of national salvation, she will take it upon herself powers, but it will not be a constitutional body, it will be some extraordinary body, it is not clear for what period, the allies will start saying there that we should hold elections. and we will not understand how to conduct them, the russians will try to identify some offensive, some military actions, some missile strikes, so as not to give us the opportunity to cancel martial law even for a month, that is, this is a direct road to destabilization, and i believe that they won't do that first of all this missile strike isn't just a swing uh huh i don't think it was a specific attempt that they thought they would definitely get into it, this is a signal,

uh, that's... one of the first signals that they can do it, that is, it's actually not an attempt, but rather blackmail, because before, even we did not think that they could strike in this way during their stay in odesa or in kyiv or in the dnipro, anywhere, a representative of another state, not a representative, a leader. mites takis, prime minister of greece, that is, there were shellings, but they were shellings that allowed one or another an official to move to a bomb shelter, and western and not only western leaders spent hours in this bomb shelter, and for a long time, as you remember, putin shelled kyiv when the delegation of the african union was here.

the president of the republic of south africa cyril ramaphosa and his colleagues were also in the bomb shelter, but do you understand the difference? it is one thing when there is an air alert, and you know for sure that the safety of the persons with whom you can speak there yourself will be ensured, or that the ukrainian side is responsible for their safety, what do you they were not taken to a safe place during the missile attack, let's say, you remember, president shtanmay, yes... he was in a bomb shelter in one of the ukrainian forces, yes, but it was an air alert, here the same attack was like that, that he did not give an opportunity, ballistics, it was ballistics, in principle the prime minister of greece had no way to avoid death, if this missile had hit 500 m closer, what is 500 m for a ballistic missile, well, i think so, then this is a signal that we can act like this.

this is not a sign.