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vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. infodent of the tv channel in rozpol. well, now we are adding igor popov, a political expert of ukrainsky, to our marathon institute of the future. glory to ukraine, mr. igor, we congratulate you. glory to the heroes, have a good day. well, the other day our country experienced quite active, so to speak, not entirely correct interpretations of what the holy father the pope of rome said. well, but in any case... we understand that

there are certain sentiments among certain western elites, and here i will not undertake a detailed analysis of that interview, which did not go completely well, so we understand that there were mixed roh with cabbage, well, but, but, but, our society reacted quite powerfully, consolidated, i would like to ask you first of all , before we move on to the key story, in particular we will talk about our euro-atlantic aspirations, i would like to ask you... about these two main tracks, the so-called geneva track and the so-called russian-chinese track. we understand that talks about that other peace formula have been going on for a long time, but there is, so to speak, no common denominator, because there is a key demand from our side, in particular, the withdrawal of russian interventionists from our territory, well , and on to this or that list, first of all i would like to ask you about. the nearest

months, well, because various assumptions, rumors and so on are multiplying. first of all, since you have already mentioned the pontiff's interview, i can only advise you to add the excerpts of the interview to those who are directly involved in everything, clarify why exactly francis took this name and what francis of assisi was doing in egypt in 1219, so that to build communication correctly, the holy see must also be spoken. referring to those precedents that are clear to them, but still a little closer to our history, indeed, we can, of course, only evaluate informal statements or hostile sources information, but most likely the russians , through various intermediaries, through the anatolian diplomatic forum in antalya, through lihuey, maybe through the saudis, convey... some proposals that, as far as

we understand, do not correspond to the national interests of ukraine. still, we have had volodymyr zelenskyi's peace formula in the works for more than a year, which was originally a set of 10 points, but since then it has been developed in detail and, moreover, many things have already been implemented, in terms of nuclear security, humanitarian exchanges, on ecology, but we we understand that it rests on two... on two key points - this is the withdrawal of russian troops and justice - this is the punishment for aggression, and here precisely the interests of the parties are mutually exclusive, therefore, since there is a chance to hold an integration summit of the peace formula at the level of the leaders of the states , then two positions are being considered here: the majority is in favor of meeting without the russians, adopting a plan that meets the national interests of ukraine, and then handing it over to russia. the russians consider this

an ultimatum, and of course, they would like somewhere to take part already at the first stage, let it be in some strange status, but to listen to their opinion, that's about it. there are many closed discussions, but we do not have direct negotiations with the russians, we see it, but the mediators have intensified, they convey various greetings. mr. igor, let's talk with you again about the meeting between donald trump and viktor orbán on march 8 in florida, and it is very interesting that after the meeting between trump and orbán, orbán already managed to tell hungarian television that... has a plan to end the war in ukraine, well, the well-known thing is that this plan is to simply stop giving money to ukraine and in this way make ukraine essentially weak, which will not be able to continue resisting russian aggression, well, nothing surprising, yes, nothing

surprising, but we understand , that now the fight for the presidential seat has already begun, and trump has every chance to take it over again. if trump wins, don't you think that europe can become polarized in this case, because there is orban, there is fizo, and there may be more other candidates, let's say, who want to be friends with trump and who will not reject the opportunity to do as he sees the solution to this war. how do you see the prospect of unfolding all these geopolitical schedules in the event that trump wins, and... we can already see that some european politicians of such a caliber as orban fully support his opinion. if the people of the united states elect donald trump as the president, then everyone, the states, will work with him, regardless of whether someone likes him, someone does not like him, he has already been

president and worked with him. these are the laws of the democratic world, this is the recognition of the victory of one's opponents as defeated, although we understand that the confrontation with ... the united states may lead to the fact that the inauguration will be delayed, and there may be some appeals, protests, and this will certainly affect the legitimacy of that government, which is chosen as for trump's position on the war in ukraine, i am afraid that viktor orban did not convey the entire formula of the statements that i heard after all that orban conveyed, it also sounds like trump will also call putin and tell him to go to... compromises, and if the kremlin does not leave, then trump will threaten to give ukraine even more weapons, because in this case the russian side will refuse to compromise. and therefore, of course, we fear that after trump's victory, we will have fewer chances to receive

military and financial assistance. in europe, this is recognized as a threat, europe is already building a new system of collective security in case the united states does not send. expeditionary force during the attack on europe, as they did in the first world and the second world war, and at the meeting of the council of the european union, which will take place in 10 days in brussels, one of the issues is military aid to ukraine, and the second issue is an increase in defense spending, and just last week the european commission adopted its defense strategy, defense-industrial strategy, this is the first such document adopted. that is, they increase the production of their own weapons in order not to be dependent on american weapons, and therefore yes, the processes of the united states, its internal discussions, the states' rethinking of their role in the world in general, they affect security in europe, and that is why we now receive more aid

from the european union, from individual eu members, from japan, while american aid has been suspended, and we have no guarantee that it will be provided to ukraine. well, i completely agree with you , and this worries me the most, that is, now we are entering such a period, the next six months, we understand that part of the resources, so to speak, may not arrive in time, when we talk about american resources, joseph biden assures us his steadfast determination, you know, and bicameral consensus, and in fact we're not getting what we're hoping for at the same time. the chinese emissaries are becoming more active and not only them, yes, we understand that the visit of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelensky to turkey was extremely important, and we understand that far from everything was included, so to speak, in the open communiqué. your vision

of the turkish visit and, in general, how we should get out of the situation when the united states promises everything, promises and promises more and more persistently, and trump, so to speak, is a major. somewhere nearby, in relation to american aid, now there are proposals for alternative options, money on credit against russian frozen... assets, we like this very idea, it means that if we cannot give the loan, then they will confiscate the frozen assets, but that's all this is at least two months, because all this is in a new round, there are procedures, and in two months they will generally have the height of the election campaign, and let's be honest, the political chances of allocating aid to ukraine, israel, taiwan, we are not the only ones suffering, political chances are it can only to decrease, and that is why ukrainian diplomacy is doing what it can, the embassy is actively working. we have both official and public diplomacy working, but we see that there are problems in the united states, and indeed

during the visit to istanbul , the security in the black sea and the security of shipping were discussed, that is, all those issues that we have in bilateral relations, but it is clear that just a few days before, serhiy lavrov came to antalya for the nalai diplomatic forum, there were also statements by khakan on the sidelines of the forum. minister of foreign affairs, of recep erdogan himself, regarding the commitment to diplomatic methods of peaceful settlement in ukraine, well, ukraine is also a supporter of diplomatic methods, but with the maximum consideration of the interests of our national security, and therefore, apparently, i can only predict that in all these bilateral closed negotiations and shuttle diplomacy, the main question for us is whether ukraine will be able to get enough funds to improve the negotiations. positions before america possibly elects trump as president, and

thus have a stronger position on any negotiations, someday there will be negotiations, but our position is that their outcome should correspond to the national interests of ukraine. yes, we agree. ihor popov, a political expert of the ukrainian future institute, was on espresso. now we will take a short break, after which we will talk with lyudmyla filipovych about the actual situation. with pope francis and not only about banning the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it means banning religious organizations that have a relationship with moscow, that would be more correct, but now literally pause for a few minutes and we'll get back to you. laughter, physical activity, sneezing, even during such a small load, urinary incontinence can make itself felt. feminist helped me. thanks to the natural ingredients, feminost uro helps restore control over urination both day and night.

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united by football, stronger together. see this week in the collaborators program. rashi-kherson regional council. who are they? non-deputies from the kremlin? we, personally. russia has been waiting for 30 years. but how do traitors wash the bridges of schoolchildren? only development awaits the kherson region. watch on tuesday, march 12 at 5:45 p.m. the collaborators program with olena kononenko on the espresso tv channel. verdict with serhii rudenko is now in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests. foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback. you can express your opinion on the bad day

with a phone survey. turn on and turn on. verdict with serhiy rudenko every day. every day from 20 to 22 for espresso. well, now we are joined by lyudmila filipovych, religious scholar, doctor of philosophy, professor at the skovoroda institute of philosophy, academy of sciences of ukraine. glory to ukraine, professor, we congratulate you. glory to the heroes, have a good day. well , a couple of days? in that happened, so to speak another information explosion, in particular , it is about the announcement of the interview of the pope of rome, which , so to speak, extremely impressed our not too stable audience, well, it is a logical thing in principle, so what the journalist asked, what the pope answered , merged into one vision , the full text, of course we haven't

seen it, but there have already been extremely strong reactions from all possible structures, official... semi-official public, i don't even want to quote all the people, well, because the discussion could take us very, very, very far, almost to breaking point, yes so to speak, of the brest union, and we also see on this, we saw, who wanted to speculate and actively tried to add fuel to the fire, so to speak, madam professor, first of all, i would like to ask you about the pope's position and, in general, about a few pieces... that really made a huge, made a huge rave around the world. well, we are not bored, you know, to live, because you said correctly from the pope, another informational message was sounded, well, it is not the first time that we hear the pope's statement, let's remember the beginning of the war, he considered it then

as an internal local conflict in the east of ukraine, and offered. in methods to stop it, you remember, he called for no shooting, no increase in arms supply, because that helps to escalate and so on and so forth, but he still evolves in his understanding of what's going on, sometimes not a little in the wrong direction , as we would like, because the ukrainians for some reason decided that if the pope is roman, then he should be completely on the side of ukraine and from... our narratives actually work, and we forget that he heads the largest the church christian, he is the head of an entire state, although it is territorial and very small, but its influence in the world is quite significant, so we do not expect the pope to become such, you know, a ukrainian nationalist who will defend

our independence on the fronts of this russian- ukrainian war, well, as for what he said, well, you know, let's face it, what he said, he said, we may not like it, and in this situation, we just have to keep in mind that there is a point of view, there is also such a position, by the way, it is very you know, it is not defined, that is, when i tried, even among what has passed into the information field, to gain something, i did not... see there that the pope calls for the capitulation of ukraine in particular, with the same success , these words of his can be addressed to russia and to putin, although i say once again, the context is not incomplete and not completely clear, on the other hand, professor, it would be strange, for sure, if the pope of rome called, so to

speak, well, in a style that is pleasant for us, for example, to terrorize moscow there, that is , we understand that he has certain... limitations, well not only of his position, but also of his mission, i just don't know what he should call for, of course, if the pontiff was his holiness father john paul ii, yes, he would have a different effective position, but i don't know , would he voice a lot of things, that is , apart from one or another condemnation, maybe i 'm wrong, because the position of ivan paul ii, it was about communism. very specific, and he supported all kinds of anti-communist movements not only in poland, but in central europe in general. but to call for the destruction of russian federation, he definitely would not have thought of it. because he was a christian, just like this pope, and they think in a completely different paradigm, the paradigm of a secular person, that way of thinking is different from a religious person,

in particular a christian, in addition, he sees not only his point of view personal, yes, but behind it is the collective point of view of catholics, that is , it is such a collective compendium of some kind, and by the way, what the pope thinks does not only mean his flock, but this is how a lot of europeans think and only and not only in in europe, but also outside, let's say europe, in the same america or especially in latin america, where his words are really perceived as the truth in the last resort, we must be ready and resistant to various assessments of the situation that has now developed in ukraine, but ... at the same time, we should not switch to other rails, we have developed our own paradigm, our own narratives, and we must create these own

narratives on our banners, so it is clear that they are not white, but as kuleba said, they are , blue-yellow, and it is clear that it is written, do not give up, no to capitulate, but only to win, that is , you know, the first one is so emotional, i would say hysterical. the action should be replaced by well who can, who can not listen to some kind of deep reflection, that is, galan began to be quoted, you know, to search for a greater scoundrel in ukrainian history, well , it is difficult to find, yes, yaroslav galan, who, well , i think that it is possible much more, well, but in any case, i had to read this and you see, you know, the eyes were filled with blood, as they say, well, i don't even want to... quote under similar, so to speak, comparisons that say, maybe the guy was wrong and so on, and we understand how instrumentally this can be used for the purpose

of manipulating public opinion, things like that, but in your opinion, professor , what should we do in order to form our common ukrainian christian position, that is, from the side of our churches, we understand that there is a greek-catholic church, there is an orthodox church, er... of the kyiv patriarchate and so on and so forth further, the correct consolidated position in order to that, it has already been expressed, there is a statement from the all-ukrainian council of churches and religious organizations, and this is the collective point of view of the representatives of these churches that are part of this all-ukrainian council, they are completely on the side of our strategy and our tactics, well... call on ukrainians only to unite and achieve the goals that we have set for ourselves as a sovereign and independent state, you understand what that means, it is not

our mission and not our task to condemn the same pope, well, because we are democrats, we recognize the right of a person to have a mother my position, the only thing that i think the all-ukrainian society will definitely agree on. negatively, we presented various and symbolic signs, and specific signs that we do not like, even this tone, if even there nothing is said about ukraine and there are no direct appeals that ukraine, anu capitulate and sit down running to the negotiating table, we do not i like that in general , this problem is even thought about in such a context, it should not be thought about, although we also understand that he was addressing not only. to ukraine and russia, and what he did not turn there to hamaz and to israel, and to them there was an appeal, in these words. well, if you compare what the pope said today with

how the roman catholic church acted in previous centuries, yes, when physically there, for example, people were destroyed to achieve their goals and the same christ's marches, or let's say bartholomew's night, or the ambiguity of the position during the second world war, then there is nothing here. you know, there is nothing reprehensible, he called for negotiations, he called for an end to this insane war, he just stands the question, by what means, what is the mechanism of these negotiations, what can ukraine agree to, what will it never agree to, will it not agree to, in order to achieve justice in this situation, well, the pope should take into account, that means our... our difficult one, you know , our circumstances, because we are losing, we are sacrificing, and not only for ukraine, but also for the whole of europe, because we are restraining,

the ukrainians are restraining this... so i would say yes, that we have undertaken this mission , realizing the need to save all humanity from these barbarians who are there in the east, i i think that such a position, when we voluntarily support it... and do it every day, you know, would require more respect, so that we are not humiliated, even with the idea that the ukrainians, having made so many sacrifices, that they can agree to a capitulation strategy, ms. professor, but i would like, if you allow me to turn our conversation a little into another discourse, these are the consequences of what the pope is doing, so people, well,

how to say it, they are. it's all very emotional, and i'm very afraid that further such steps will be taken by the official vatican and, in particular, by the pope francis, they can cause quite a large number of people to despair, because for them, by association, pope francis is a moral authority, and accordingly, there are people who, for example, during a full-scale invasion began to speak, and now i don't know if i i believe or i don't believe, i'm an atheist or an agnostic, well, we understand what these processes are. they, they, they encourage other processes, and this is a kind of, well, more, in my opinion, a bigger problem, a more worldview problem. you are absolutely right, there is danger that people can refuse to belong to this church, but then the question arises, what do you believe in, well, roman catholics and catholics, they do not believe in the pope, they believe in jesus christ and perfectly understand that on this position, in this... word

, there can be different people, and believe me, this pope is not the worst in the history of the papacy, there were more colorful, as they say, figures that raise doubts about their morality, i think that now, you know, europeans , in particular , have become more critical, there is no longer such a sacred attitude towards the figure of the pope, even to the previous popes, now we know them, although we believe that they are vicars. peter on earth, but we treat them with the understanding that they are living people, that they also have this opportunity to make mistakes, and by the way, we forgive them these mistakes, because all people are sinful, including the popes can also sin somewhere, you know, this is a certain test, probably for the strength of your faith, if, because of what the pope said, you actually renounce your faith in...

jesus christ, your faith in the lord god, then your faith is useless, then you are some kind of ritualist and there a cultivator who threw himself only at the head of his church, at the same time did not understand the entire depth of that faith, christianity , in particular, did not study this faith well and deeply, if you like such statements, situational popes completely change your perception of those commandments that we ... left by jesus christ. thank you, lyudmila filipovych, religious scholar and doctor of philosophy, professor at the grigory skovoroda institute of philosophy of the national academy of sciences (ukraine) was on our airwaves, talking about the statement of pope francis and how ukrainians reacted to it, in particular and not not only ukrainians, but world leaders as well. we will now go to the news, since it is time for news, so we will pass the floor to our colleague iryna koval, who has already

prepared fresh and relevant information. together with the news editor, we give you the floor, well, actually, tell us what this issue will be about. thank you, marta, well, polish protesters have already started to stop passenger buses with ukrainians, i will also tell you about which russian soldiers were convicted in ukraine and a lot of other information will be in the issue, so stay tuned. it's 5 p.m. in ukraine, and we have a news release on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers. polish protesters and the police began to stop passenger buses at the border - said the deputy prime minister of ukraine oleksandr

kuberakov. he added. that there were no explanations from the participants of the action