the generals are still waiting for dismissal according to the conclusion of the vlk. over the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with our guests, diplomat-politician volodymyr ogryysk, sbu general viktor yagun, and political expert viktor boberenko. in the second part of our program, which will begin in an hour, we will talk about russian fascism, the vatican, two criminal cases of shabunin, and does russia rule? god. however, before starting our conversation, i suggest watching a video of how the ukrainian military destroyed an entire enemy column. drone operators of the third brigades of the operational assignment of the national guard named after colonel petr bolbochan, in cooperation with the artillery, stopped the enemy's offensive. several pieces of equipment were destroyed by drones, two more were hit by artillery. let's watch this enchanting video.

friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching live there, please like this video, subscribe to our pages on these platforms, and participate in our voting, today we ask you about the pope, and this question is: is the criticism of the pope's words about the negotiations with the russian federation valid, yes no , please vote on youtube and vote also on tv, pick up your phone or smartphone and vote if you think that the criticism of the pope 's words about negotiations with the russian federation is valid (0800-211-381), no (0800-211-382), all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we are in touch with... our first guest, a diplomat, a politician,

minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9, volodymyr o hryzko, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, today, march 11, the swedish flag was raised in front of the nato headquarters in brussels. the country became the 32nd member of the alliance, secretary general stoltenberg said that ukraine's support from... remains significant and should continue. let's listen to what stoltenberg said. president putin started this war. he can complete it today, but ukraine cannot do it because surrender does not mean peace. we must continue to strengthen ukraine and show putin that he will not achieve what he wants on the battlefield. but he has to sit down at the table before.

spoke and seek a solution where ukraine is recognized and remains a sovereign, independent state. mr. volodymyr, the washington nato summit, the jubilee summit, will take place in just a few months. how likely is it that ukraine can receive an invitation to the north atlantic alliance and become the 33rd member of nato. well, you know, i think it should be. ours it is a national task for ukraine to truly become the 33rd member of the alliance without any pros, cons, etc., that is, all of this must finally reach the finish line and become the unalternative direction of both our and the nato mainstream, but in this context , you know, you quoted and quoted... but stoltenberg, in my opinion,

is a very weak statement, this talk that putin can end the war, that he, that if he wants to, he will do it even in one day , well, it's either a misunderstanding that he... is happening, or unwillingness to understand it, well, no, under no circumstances will putin do this, and the question should not be asked about whether it is necessary to wait until he withdraws his troops, but the question should be asked about the fact that nato is the largest military political bloc, the strongest military-political bloc, which exceeds russia by many times, except for nuclear weapons, it is this bloc that must make putin lose, and here are all ... stories about what, let's wait, let's think, let's wait a minute, it's not power, it's the weakness of such an alliance, despite this , of course, we need to think about how to go to the washington summit not with

an outstretched hand, but with an active position, when we are not asking for something, we need to offer something, and in these few months , who remain... until the summit, i think that we should sharply strengthen our work with all partners, but first of all with the americans and germans, who, unfortunately, today still continue to be afraid of what princess maria alekseevna will say, that is, the kremlin, and to as long as this fear remains, the situation will be uncertain, we must finally demand clarity, clarity and speed from our western partners, otherwise this process will drag on endlessly. mr. volodymyr, stoltenberg literally said that capitulation does not mean peace. apparently, this remark of stoltenberg referred

to the recent statement of pope francis in an interview with the russian channel rci, and where he said that ukraine should have the courage to raise the white flag, negotiate and agree on an end to the war with russia, let's listen to a small fragment of this interview. i believe that those who see the situation, those who think about the people, those who have the courage to raise the white flag and negotiate are stronger, and today it can be negotiated with the help of international forces, the word negotiation is a bold word. this, this interview and interpretation of what the pope said and how he answered the journalist, they say that this white flag was sewn into the journalist's question and he only gave an answer to it, but we see that during the last two years, the pope does not change his positions,

that is, he has two sides that are fighting, that should sit down at the table of transition, he does not have an aggressor country, he does not have appeals to putin to stop the war, why do you think, holy the throne reacts to this war in this way, and doesn't history teach pope francis what happened in the 39-40 years, when pius xii, his predecessor, one of the predecessors, tried to reconcile hitler with europe or vice versa, europe with hitler? well , you see, mr. sergius, i... personally believe that the pope of rome, although he is formally the head the vatican state is, first and foremost , a moral authority for billions of catholics around the world, and this

is probably its most important function and role, the role of a shepherd for a huge number of people, that is, it should be first and foremost... high moral authority, i will tell you frankly, this last statement, it seems to me , devalued him so much as a moral leader that after this, i think, it will be a completely different history of the papal throne and his personality, because calling for negotiation with the personification of evil, it means crossing all the moral red lines that can only be, well, that can only be imagined. look, if you don't

see that you are offering negotiations with the devil, with lucifer, then it's not... it's clear, well, really, whether this person is at that, at that height of moral virtues, which the church actually speaks about, without relative to that ... whether it is catholic or orthodox or any other, by the way, don't kill is another imperative of any world religion, and you need to react to this don't kill, don't engage with empty calls for peace, but to talk about the reasons for this war, the reasons for the murders, but you know, i find a way. clarifying the leftism of the pope, let's not forget where

he is from, argentina, a country where these views are extremely popular, this has actually been going on for decades and more than one argentine government has been just such a leftist leftist. of this direction, he also holds the same views, so it seems to me that this is not about the vatican as a whole, it is about him personally, well, we will have to survive this pope too, you mentioned one of his, well, let's say so, shameful predecessors, and i want to remember one of his outstanding predecessors, john... paul ii, who was truly the personification of morality, values,

reflections, truly about christian virtues and struggle for these virtues, because what is happening now can hardly be called a struggle for principles. in response to the pope's statement about the white flag, president zelenskyi emphasized that russian killers are not going beyond europe. only because they are restrained by ukrainian men and women with weapons in hands and under a blue-yellow flag. let's listen to what the president of ukraine said. when russian evil started this war on february 24, all ukrainians stood up for protection. everyone, christians, muslims, jews, everyone. i thank every ukrainian chaplain, as with the army, in the defense forces, there, on the front lines. for... they protect life and humanity, support with prayer, conversation, and deed, that's what a church with

people is like, and not 25 km away somewhere to engage in virtual mediation between those who want to live and those who want to destroy you. sir vladimir, but the pope, he already understands that in this situation he is playing along with the kremlin. with the kremlin, well, obviously, but i think that he himself did himself a very, well, bad service, because look at the international reaction to these words, well, unless something was mucked up in the kremlin , it is not incomprehensible either to them or to the rest world, and the civilized world is simply outraged by what the pope of rome said, and i think that with such statements... he really devalues ​​himself as, well, at least some symbol

of christian virtues, a symbol of what is called humanity, and so on, so i think that if they were not happy with these statements in moscow, they would not have any practical... significance, ukraine will never agree to the white flag, and it is obvious why it will play along with moscow, well, it is necessary probably speaking in a different guise, and here it seems to me that it will be more important to delve into the history of these relations, to remember that for some reason francis has long loved... the fsb, kgb patriarch of muscovy kirill gundyaev, in the kgb files

of mikhailov and so on, that is, here i think it is already a topic for journalists and maybe not only for journalistic investigations, there are probably a lot of interesting facts that have not been made public yet, but... uh, i think it will have the effect of a bomb that has exploded, because it is too persistent and persistent now. the current pope leads the line of moscow, it doesn't happen that easily. mr. volodymyr, literally in a week or two , french president emmanuel macron should be in ukraine on an official visit, his arrival in kyiv has not yet been confirmed, and this is explained by security issues, but we see that during

the last, the last month or two, emmanuel macron has been playing a rather important role and... you could say a leadership role in europe, when he gathers the leaders of 20 european countries and says that everything must be done so that putin is defeated, what's more, he hints that french troops may be on the territory of ukraine, and that too for nothing, he says it for good reason, and it is unlikely that these are some excuses of macron, as you evaluate the leadership now. macron's role, and whether that means macron and those he's negotiating with are ready to create any new security structure in europe, in case there may be any problems with the north atlantic alliance after trump comes to power in the united states of america?

well, actually, mr. serhiy, i think that we should start by concluding your question, because it is about what... what has finally dawned on european politicians, including and first of all on macron, that in the end it is not, let's say , the expected events in washington, but we cannot now predict anything that will happen there at the beginning of the 25th year, and if you imagine to himself, that trump came to power with his absolute uh... well , not non-standard, let's say this delicately, and unpredictability, then also his statements that russia can do what you want in europe with those who do not pay 2 % of its gdp and so on and so on, then you understand that, and especially now, by the way , also when he declared to orban that he would not give

a single penny to the opposition in ukraine, but... this will lead to very serious consequences, then believe me, now for every european leader who thinks about the security of his country, the same time is coming, because he means that it is necessary to urgently think about how to confront russia, who today from the european countries. can really fight with russia, well, excuse me, i will take the courage to say that no one, and that it is not primarily because there is no technology there, there is technology, because they are not ready for this either morally or psychologically, no, organizationally, european armies are disorganized, they

very often do not have the necessary range. what is needed, they cannot follow any one line, because it is not written in the respective ones standards, well, i'll just give you one example, when today we are talking about creating a so-called tank visa-free, so that conditional tanks from germany could get to the conditional lithuania or latvia without obstacles. quince in the event of an attack on these countries by this russian wild bear, but for now it is only talk, and if there are 32 countries, then imagine how much time and everything else must pass for such a simple, normal, banal decision to be made, therefore

, it seems to me, they are finally starting in europe to guess that it's going to... quite these, you know, dramatic forms, and that ukraine needs to be helped, otherwise, then they'll be helping themselves, but whether they can do it, the question is rhetorical, so i think macron just caught on very quickly this change is trying in this regard, it is unlikely to be just a leader here, he is just trying , it seems to me, to convey this story to others, so that people in berlin and in warsaw and in prague and in madrid and wherever, in europe understands. that now is the key time, or all together will help ukraine and in this way there will be no need to get involved directly themselves,

well, or then the situation will get out of control, and then the french, german and all other armies of europe will have to try on their military uniforms, because for... why it just won't work. thank you, mr. volodymyr, for the conversation, this was volodymyr ogrysko, politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who who is watching us live there now. please join our platforms, subscribe to our pages, take part in our survey, because today we ask you about this, do you agree with, or are you? valid criticism of the pope's words about negotiations with the russian federation. yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphones and

vote. if you think that the criticism of the pope's words about negotiations with the russian federation is valid. 0800 2111-381, no 0800 211-382. all calls to these the numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will summarize it. voting. next, we have viktor yagun, major general of the sbu zapasu, deputy head of the sbu in 2014-15. mr. general, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today. good health. the new york times writes that the administration of the president of the united states of america at the end of 2022 was developing an action plan in response to russia's possible use of nuclear weapons in ukraine. about this. this is a respectable publication. representatives of the administration said that the united states' response should be non-nuclear, but they quickly added that

it would have to be some kind of dramatic response, perhaps even a conventional strike against units that launched nuclear weapons, or risk emboldening not only russian dictator putin, but any another authoritarian leader with a large nuclear arsenal. or small, mr. general, given that ukraine voluntarily gave up its nuclear potential, and we found ourselves in a situation where the guarantors of the budapest memorandum, well, no were able to provide us with security guarantees, and one of the guarantors attacked ukraine, in your opinion, can ukraine declare and count on return in the future. or for the restoration of nuclear potential in our country? in the near future it is difficult to imagine, it

seems so to me first of all, because i think that in such a perspective, we will rather become members of nato and receive a nuclear umbrella from those three states that are officially e. carriers, well, which are the owners of nuclear weapons, this is great britain, france and the united states, this is one, and the second, we still need to work on non-nuclear components, we will succeed in this better, and we will be able to resist the enemy sooner, if we use our capabilities for application, first of all, this is long-range missile technology. the problem is in ukraine. very simple and i once called it, we don’t have the opportunity to use ranges for testing missiles with a range of more than 500 km,

so why did we use the odesa ranges in order to be able to hit the black sea there, warning everyone who swims there , unfortunately, not such a long distance, we need missiles at 1000 km. how, how to do it? well, we need to reach out to our allies and negotiate with them so that we can test the missiles we are developing on their fields, this is done by many countries in this way, in particular, i know that south korea has also been working on this, and i think that this would be a much better solution than creating nuclear weapons, although it is clear that we would like to, you know, like israel, we, we... we do not have nuclear weapons, but if necessary, we will use them, well, that's what i meant , what or whether can ukraine, let's say, take

certain steps in order to, well... protect itself from such a neighbor as the russian federation, especially since missile technology has always been at a sufficiently high level in ukraine, the south of mash has created many different missiles of various classes and including missiles that can carry nuclear weapons. in this situation , any step towards nuclear weapons will repel us. from the civilized world, from the north atlantic alliance, and in the end, how do you assess the fact that russia can use our nuclear power plants as a weapon, i.e. we know that the zaporizhia as is now under control, the magate directorate has already appealed to russia to free the territory of the zaporizhia as, well , no one is going to do this, and after all,

ukraine surrenders. this nuclear blackmail, and not only ukraine, but also the whole world, and it is happening in front of the eyes of the whole world? well, unfortunately, we have to decide if we're going to develop nuclear weapons, and uh, unfortunately, uh, we 're in a position where we're dependent on our allies at this stage, then we can issue an ultimatum from which we cannot refuse, that is... you can't hide a needle in a bag, and all our efforts or developments can be known, become known to both our allies and our enemies, and this will be used primarily against us , so if we were at least at the same level as israel, which conducts a more independent policy and has the opportunities, including financial ones, to use it for its defense, then i think the situation might be

a little different. but at this stage in the coming decades until we finish all of them, including financial obligations to our allies, i do not think that we will go the way of creating our own nuclear developments, but i emphasize, i emphasize once again, that there is an opportunity , not with nuclear weapons, to ensure our security, and it will be quite effective if... the enemy will know that we can use non-nuclear fissionable conventional missile weapons, but they will fly around their centers, as they themselves like to call decision-making, i think it will be quite unpleasant for them and that can be used much more effectively than we unfortunately had before, so we

have to work on... those weapons on the missile weapons, on the unmanned systems, and i think that way we 'll put any enemy in their place , this is one of those elements that will allow us to be on the alert and keep them at bay, unfortunately, the most effective method is actually joining the euro-atlantic union. mr. general, lithuanian military intelligence believes that the russian federation will have sufficient resources to wage war against of ukraine with the current intensity for at least two more years. at the same time, according to the institute for the study of war, which is located in the united states of america, russia has already deconserved from 25 to 40% of its tank strategic reserves, and removed the best equipment from storage.

how do you think russia will become in this war, or will they wage this war against ukraine just to the last russian in order not to lose this war and in order to prove, well , first of all to the world, that they are ready for a big war, and they were preparing for it, and in them enough resources, well, let's be honest, resources are not enough, but unfortunately, psychology is the enemy. at this stage, it is very difficult to predict their actions, because their psychology is just kind of crazy. in fact, all economists and all specialists truly believe that the 24th and 25th years are the last years when russia can stay afloat with that intensity, without outside help from some of its own, i don’t know who its allies are it can be attributed there, it is untenable.