all after bbc news we'll have part two of the program talking about russian fascism, the vatican, and whether russia is ruled by god, stay with espresso, pope francis's words on the white flag and talks between russia and. ukraine to end the war caused outrage in ukrainian society, but what exactly did he want to say by this? we're talking about it today on bbc live from london. jafer umerov is with you. the words that outraged a significant part of ukrainians were uttered during his interview with the swiss journalist lorenz bucheli. it was recorded back in february, but it was published only now. what exactly did pope francis say? let's listen to an excerpt. chenka

speaking about the conflict in ukraine, it is often said that capitulation, a white flag of capitulation will be needed, but for some it would mean the legitimization of the law of the strongest, is it right or not to think like that? there is such an interpretation, it is true, but i believe that the strongest person is the one who looks at the situation that has developed, thinks about people and has a husband. and today it is possible to conduct negotiations with the help of world powers, such is. the words to negotiate are bold words. when you see that you are losing, that things are not going well, you must have the courage to negotiate. you are ashamed, but if...

you continue on the current course , how many more deaths will there be, and then it will end even worse, you need to negotiate in time, look for some mediator country, today, for example, in the war in ukraine, many people want to be a mediator, turkey offers itself for this, and others, do not hesitate to negotiate until things get worse, and after that an interview in the press office. the pontiff wants peace and a diplomatic solution to the conflict for ukraine, he used the words white flag as an image suggested by the journalist. they added that the pope considers ukraine a country of martyrs and advocates dialogue, and the day before the pope made another statement about the war in ukraine. let's listen. we pray for peace in long-suffering ukraine and the holy land. let the fighting stop as soon as possible.

actions that cause enormous suffering to the civilian population. so he called for an end to the war. however, the ukrainian authorities also reacted to the words about the white flag. for example, in response , volodymyr zelenskyi said that russian murderers and torturers do not go further in europe only because they are restrained by ukrainian men and women with weapons in their hands and under the blue and yellow flag. during the full-scale invasion of the word or. it is not the first time that the ideas of pope francis have been criticized in ukraine. for example, in april of the 22nd year , a scandal arose in society because of the idea of ​​a procession in rome. during the procession , a ukrainian and a russian woman carried the cross, so you can see this photo now. and then people were outraged by the comparison of the sufferings of the two peoples, and in august, too, on the 22nd year, when dugin, who shared the views of her father, a supporter of the idea of ​​destroying ukraine, oleksandr dugin, died. he

wrote that he had in mind the poor girl who flew into the air in moscow under a bomb. the innocent are paying for the war, the pontiff said then, which is why the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine summoned the vatican's ambassador. and in the summer of last year, during a video address to the participants of the all-russian meeting of catholic youth in st. petersburg, he mentioned the russian imperial heritage and called on the participants of the meeting not to forget that they the heirs, i quote, of the great russia and the fact that... they are the descendants of the great mother russia. the reaction of the ministry of foreign affairs at the time was immediate, and the advisor of the president's office, mykhailo podolyak, accused the holy see of a pro-russian position. however, francis has repeatedly supported ukraine in his statements. for example, in june 22, he praised the heroism of ukrainians, in january of this year he compared wars similar to the russian war in ukraine to a crime against god and humanity. how could the vatican?

allow such a communication crisis and that in fact 200 km away they know about the war in ukraine, public activist, expert on religious organizations, denys, told us. and when he talks about the white flag, here i agree with the peresiralization that the vatican published, and i know that it is true, that the pope did not mean surrender, which is not surprising, i understand that the white flag is for us is a symbol, there of capitulation, but it is also a symbol of readiness for negotiations, that is , if, for example, two armies met on the battlefield, a white flag is raised, as a moment of negotiations as well, not necessarily a capitulation. exchange prisoners, by anything, that is, if we take the history of the white flag, and when the pope uses the word white flag, then he deciphers that it is actually about negotiations, about a diplomatic solution to this problem, so in fact the pope is nothing new said that in order

to fully understand what the pope meant, one must wait for the full interview, which should be released on march 20, then it will be clear in what context he waved the white flag, where he spoke about victory. not ukraine, russia, where he spoke, and he meant israel and palestine, and hamas, that is, you have to look contact, now it looks to me like a well-planned russian ipso, where they used the vatican, they used not the pope's naivety, but his desire to end this war and somehow stop the deaths and murders of people, he understands what is happening in the context of the war, but not until the end realizes what russia is. here we can talk about various things, about the argentine past, about russian propaganda, which works very hard, about certain pro-russian circles that exist in the vatican, about admiration for dostoevsky, about admiration for great russian culture, about culture, the cultural diplomacy of russia, on which big, big, big, big

money was spent, like most countries of the west, and especially of the global south, so they do not know what russia is, for them, negotiations are an understandable situation for... maybe an understandable situation and certain capitulations , it is difficult for the vatican to understand that capitulation to russia is the destruction of the country, it is not just the defeat of some political interests or political opinions, it is the destruction of its identity, its religious diversity, and this must be reported to the vatican, i do not know the time, i heard, so i will come, and when i asked about some specific time, it is not yet time, but it was repeated several times, i do not give up the idea. trip to ukraine, that is, ukraine will be in such a crisis that we will need world support and only the pope's visit can restore world support and inverted attention to us, but i understand that the pope does not want to come empty-handed, the pope does not want to be just a political leader visiting

ukraine, he wants to come with something for the ukrainian people, it was denys kolyada, denys kolyada, an expert on religious organizations, and when it comes to... the international reaction to francis's statements, regardless of whether they are taken out of context or not, then everyone who spoke on the topic is categorically on the side of ukraine. for example, i think you can understand some things only if you see them yourself - said the minister of foreign affairs of germany, anna lena berbock, adding that when she talks to children in ukraine who suffered from the war, she asks herself: where is the pope ? and you can't... capitulate in the face of evil, you have to fight against it and win him, so that evil will raise the white flag and capitulate - said latvian president edgar srinkiewicz, for example, alexandra valkenburg, the head of the eu delegation to the holy see , said on sunday on the x network that russia started

an illegal and unjustified war against ukraine two years ago, and russia can end this war immediately, respecting sovereignty. and territorial integrity of ukraine. and in conclusion, pope francis called on ukraine to have the courage to start negotiations and used the words "white flag". these words of the pontiff caused outrage in social networks, among ukrainians and not only. however , the vatican press service explained that pope francis wants peace for ukraine and a diplomatic solution to the conflict, using the words white flag as an insult. which was suggested by the journalist during the interview, and subscribe to our pages on social networks so as not to miss the most important news, we are on facebook, instagram and tiktok, on youtube you can watch our episode if you missed it

on the air, and that's all for today, more stories, search on our website bbc.ua and on our pages in social networks, and we are on the air tomorrow at 25. first, take care of yourself. 28 territorial communities from 14 oblasts of ukraine joined the women, peace , security response to the challenges of war project, which was financially supported by the british government. the initiative from last year is implemented thanks to the partnership of six of the strongest women's public organizations. with the apparatus of the government commissioner for gender policy, when we talk about this policy and

the approach of women's peace and security, we are talking about different social groups of the population, it is necessary to identify their needs and then take them into account formation and implementation of state policy, only then can state policy be effective, we talk about this at the government level, but the mechanisms and... are laid down in such projects. today, more than ever, the issue of citizens' security unites east and west, south and north ukraine. the experience of the project has shown that our state is in dire need of solving common problems, which audits of territory security help to cope with. in all 28 communities, the audits were, i would say, very successful, very effective, and they also helped not only to identify... problems that are in the context of safety for women in communities , not only women, by the way, but also men, and

all residents of the communities, but they are very important that they helped the residents of the community to understand these dangers, to see what is wrong and how to fix it situation, the valkiv territorial community, which in the kharkiv oblast within the framework of the project managed to purchase and install video surveillance cameras on the streets... with more lively traffic, which reduces the risk of road accidents. it was thanks to security audits that the community determined which places in the region carry the greatest risks and threats. they decided exactly to write in the project that a safe space on kharkivsya street is the most important thing, because there are even fatal outcomes on this street, and it is very important for the police to understand how and which vehicles move along this street. both drivers and pedestrians. people understand when there is video surveillance, they follow the rules of traffic, the speed of motor vehicles and

the rules for pedestrians as well, they do not run across the road wherever they want, but they follow the rules. a security audit is the first step to improving life, this is based on your own example demonstrated by the zhytomyr city territorial community. as part of the project , cluttered areas near the local square that could be a place for... attacks on women or children were cleared, and the local cultural and sports center was also able to install eco-flow and solar-powered lanterns so that children could exercise normally even during blackouts. we were all engaged in security issues even before becoming a deputy, but now we have received very clear such instructions, the information has already been collected, and it seems to me that it is still extremely important world grants to follow, which relate to ecology, which concern... security, because this is the work of not one generation, but of european countries, and we have

a lot to learn. in addition, we also monitored the security measures of all 29 municipal, targeted programs that are in our community. and in order to find out, in general, what our situation is with the inclusion of security measures in the program. which are financed to find out what gaps there are, and maybe there are some, well, to work on avoiding them. security issues are actively resolved and lviv region. in the bibrsk territorial community, after security audits, the condition of areas near educational institutions and hospitals improved. a protective structure was set up for the students of the local support lyceum. in public institutions, inclusive restrooms were installed, ramps were made and they were purchased. sometimes in this way, the community tries to take care of people with inclusive needs.

we have accessibility to all medical institutions, this is really a norm, a requirement of the national health service, ensuring inclusiveness. now we have moved on to educational institutions, and for this reason we have a lyceum a stairwell was purchased, for a place at the expense of the local budget. the ukrainian public health foundation started implementing security audits in our country even before the full-scale audits. war, but the russian invasion made its adjustments. a security audit is a tool that first of all allows the community, and later the funds they have, to direct. to cover priority issues related to security, that is, in fact, the community, and we have such requests from communities, they want to conduct audits in order to understand, really, this road, or this lighting, or this or that transport interchange, what needs to be done, but within the framework of this project, which is currently being presented, there is also a donor, the british embassy, ​​there are other

donors who are ready to provide support to ukrainian women in addition to the funds in the communities. .. the security audit of the territories is an important component of state policy, because during the russian-ukrainian war, the security issue itself is in the first place. the active participation of communities in the audit helps prevent violence and guarantees the right to protection for every ukrainian. tetyana golunova, espresso tv channel. greetings, friends, in the second part of our verdict program, we talk about russian fascism, the vatican, shabunin's two criminal cases

and whether god rules russia. however, before we start... our conversation, let's watch a video of how the command of the air forces of the armed forces of ukraine reported on the destruction of an enemy control post . let's see. friends, we are live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching there us live, please like this video, leave your comments under our

stream, and most importantly, vote in our poll, today we ask you the following: is the criticism of the pope's words about negotiations with the russian federation valid? yes, no, everything is quite simple in youtube, if you have your own opinion, please leave a comment under this video. if you are sitting in front of the tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you think that the criticism of the pope's words about negotiations with russian federation is correct (0800-211-381), no (0800-211-382). all calls to... these numbers are free, call, later we will talk about what the pope said and how his words were interpreted in ukraine and the world. however , let's start our conversation with general zaluzhnyi. we know, friends, that on march 7 , president zelenskyi announced that

the former commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, zaluzhny, would be appointed ambassador of ukraine. in great britain, exactly one month ago, on february 8, 2024, the president zelensky signed a decree on the dismissal of general zaluzhny from the post of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. there was quite a big resonance, quite a big reaction among ukrainians to this dismissal, because general zaluzhnyi is a people's favorite, and this is evidenced by all the recent sociological polls. for two years, general zaluzhny was trusted by more than 90% of citizens, and this is a fairly high rating of trust, both as a military man and as a person on whom the future of the ukrainian state depends, and suddenly, after how president zelensky announced

the appointment of zuluzhny as ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary to great britain appeared. the information that zaluzhny passed the military medical commission in the winter, where he was declared unfit for service in the army, then he wrote a report on his dismissal, this is reported by the mirror of the week with reference to its own sources, i will quote this publication: after being dismissed from his post by decision president zaluzhnyi was placed at the disposal of the minister of defense, some significant military position, of an adequate level defense minister umerov did not offer the necessary training and experience, just as president zelensky did not offer it earlier. under these conditions, general zaluzhnyi decided to resign from military service in order to have the opportunity and... the right to do something else, whether the minister of defense signed the report after the president announced his intention to send valery zaluzhnyi as ambassador to london, the editors do not know. later, our colleagues

from ukrainian pravda wrote about the fact that lieutenant general serhiy shaptala, who, by the way, was the commander or chief of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine, was also dismissed based on the conclusion of the military medical commission on unfitness for military service with removal from military service. accounting, this information about the passing of both the unfit and the unfit by the military medical commission and their obtaining the status of people who are unfit for military service obviously requires additional clarification from the supreme commander-in-chief, from the ministry of defense of ukraine, because these questions are about their suitability or unsuitability, people who are on... on the russian-ukrainian front, what happened to these generals, why were they brought to the status of unfit, well, and most importantly, most importantly,

what is happening now with these 16 generals who were dismissed together with the deserving of their positions, remember, general zabrodskyi, general nayev, heroes of ukraine , people who went through the russian-ukrainian war, starting from... 2014, what positions were offered to them and most importantly, what are these generals doing now, combat generals who have combat experience behind them, who can train servicemen and students, cadets of military schools and not only military schools, but in reality, what positions are offered to them, what they do and whether they do not pass... they all go together to the military medical commission, which will determine their unfit status, we do not know this yet

, as we do not know for sure whether the military medical commission still made a decision on luzhun and shaptal, because it was information from several sources from our colleagues, well, this is a publication that usually uses verified sources, this is the mirror of the week, let me remind you ukrainian indeed, none. so far there is no confirmation of this information, i hope that with the appointment, in accordance with the presidential decree, of the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary to great britain, this issue will be articulated and explained to the citizens of ukraine in some way, because it seems that the generals have been released from military service from the army was released for offering them... some kind of diplomatic work, well, in this case, a meritorious one, i don't know what the story is with shaptala, the lack of transparency in this questions arise, as a result of this

, different interpretations arise, and people ask questions: what exactly is the matter with the diligent, and why did he actually agree to this position, and is everything so simple in this matter, unfortunately, we do not know the answers to these questions also, because general zaluzhny... is absent in the information space, he also does not say anything, and therefore these questions, which i am articulating now, can obviously be asked by all our viewers, all ukrainians who watch general zaluzhny, for his further dollar, well, actually, who care about the future of ukraine. will valery zaluzhny return to kyiv after the diplomatic mission in london as a political leader or a leader. political party is still unknown, now it is clear that zaluzhny is part of a big team fighting for ukraine's victory over

russia. let's see, friends, how this will all end, but i hope that this week the authorities will put an end to the issue of passing the military medical commission by generals, and i hope that the supreme commander-in-chief of defense will still still... they will tell what happened to those 16 generals who were released on february 8-9 , 2024. another story that is unfolding before our eyes, and literally during the last few days, all european leaders have already managed to comment on the words of the pope of rome about the white flag and about the possible peace negotiations that ukraine should go to with... the kremlin, however, before telling this whole story, i suggest you listen to what pope francis said in an interview with the italian channel rci about the... country and

how he sees the future of peace negotiations between kyiv and moscow. i believe that those who see the situation, those who think about the people, those who have the courage to raise the white flag and negotiate are stronger, and today it can be negotiated with the help of international forces, the word negotiation is a bold word. in the press service. khan explained these words of the pope as follows: the pontiff is calling for a ceasefire and the resumption of negotiations, not for the surrender of ukraine. however, peace negotiations with russia in the current situation are already the capitulation of ukraine. if not understood in the vatican, if the holy see does not understand this, then in such a situation they play on the side of the kremlin grandfathers. and the first

of vladimir putin. we understand that in this situation the holy see should have articulated its position more clearly. russia should leave ukraine. russia must stop the war in ukraine. russia should stop killing ukrainians, because it should be, and it is, according to the holy see. however , during the last two years, pope francis has none. did not say about putin, about how putin should behave in this situation, about that russia is an occupier and aggressor. instead , the pope praised russian culture in an online conference and told young russians who are coming here to kill us, told them what a great culture they have, how he is fascinated by this culture, how this great culture educates russians and, in general, how it affects

the whole world . and this, perhaps, can be called the disgrace of the current pope, just as his predecessor was disgraced. in march 39, a pontiff called pius xii came to power in the vatican. it was eugeniro maria giuseppe giovanni pacenli, who was brought to the... throne, so pius xii began negotiations with the italian fascists led by benito mussolini, then he negotiated with the german fascists. the main task that pius xii saw before himself was to reconcile the fascists with europe, or rather, to reconcile europe with the fascists. like, let's sit down at the change table and make an agreement. how

fascists should behave in europe, and these negotiations lasted a very long time. already after germany captured poland, in the spring of 1940 a delegation led by ribbentrop came to the vatican, and they came with with their nazi flags. so, ribbentrop greeted pius the 12th. zig, that is, he raised his hand, and this nazi salute was directed at the pope. instead of reacting properly to this gathering, the pope of rome also greeted rabintrop with a raised hand. however, no reconciliation, of course, took place. german, german fascists used the vatican, and pi 12

nothing. could not do either with mussolini or with hitler, and obviously, it is this, this experience that pope francis had to learn in some way, and also to understand what with the aggressors you can't reconcile, you can't throw away the white flags, because the white flag is the flag of surrender, and he said very correctly. president zelenskyi that we protect europe under blue and yellow flags, and blue and yellow flags are our flags, and no white flags will be over ukrainians, because ukrainians protect europe from the rashists. the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kuleba, reminded the pope of the conciliatory strategy of the vatican, that is, in

the first half of the 20th century. and urged not to repeat historical...