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did not start this war, but we must finish it and we must win. all the most important things every thursday at 21:15 in the "great lviv speaks" project on espresso tv channel. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them, but few know what is happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. well, a couple of minutes ago we finished the conversation with oleksandr kraev, an international expert. and now vitaly portnikov, publicist, journalist, will join us. that vitaly is already with us,

glory to ukraine, vitaly, glad to see, glory, congratulations, well, the key story is two, at least two so-called diplomatic tracks, that is, one track is related to the geneva format, and the second is related to the so-called, i don't know, moscow-beijing vision of the situation, and the key story, v in what way those diplomatic initiatives could be combined, combined, answer. we understand that there was an extremely important meeting between the president of ukraine volodymyr zelensky and the president of turkey, recep tayyip erdogan, so we understand that we have mostly general public information, but it is possible that the president of turkey also gave some or other signals, so let's start now with the analysis of that , what is this great international diplomatic process, if it really has prospects. so to speak, somehow connect.

we understand that the key story is our vision of what is happening with the war, but many countries have their own individual interpretations of events, and accordingly can offer certain recipes or schemes that do not suit us. frankly, i believe that the key point is not our vision of what is happening with moscow, with the war, but the russian vision of what is happening with the war, because if... is not going to go to any negotiations, then they don't have meaning no formats, so let's see what the president of russia says of the federation, vladimir putin in his conversation with dmitry kiselyov, just today, that russia continues to put forward the same demands that it put forward in 2022, demands for security guarantees, that is, in fact, it can be clearly said that there have been no changes in the position of the president of the russian federation, this the first moment, the second moment... it is obvious that

the president of the russian federation is not going to talk to ukraine, he is going to talk to the west, because it is clear that we cannot give any security guarantees to the russian federation, a guarantee can the security of the russian federation is only the united states of america, so this is by and large an offer to talk about the future with the united states, again, nothing changes from 2022. the third point is that the russian president, in principle, does not understand why he should hold negotiations, so when he speaks to us, they say that we have to talk about something there, because they do not have enough shells, well, i'm sorry, why should we it is necessary, this is also an absolutely clear position, so i think that all these meetings, formats and conversations are a protocol around non-existent events. mr. vitaly, look, yesterday the head of the cia spoke about what needs to be done so that the situation in ukraine does not get out of control. he said that

the lack of aid will cause more audio incidents, this is his direct quote, he also said that ukraine should be given aid, even from the point of view that it is possible to negotiate... with the russian federation, ukraine should approach more advantageous positions. if we understand correctly, the question of negotiations is a question of time, and ours the allies, the main united states, also see this process precisely through negotiations, but now they, like us, believe that we have no trump cards in our hands, i don't know if there are any normal positions in order to enter into these negotiations. how do you see the development of this situation with negotiations and the role of the united states in this process? as i can't see, i don't understand why we believe that the issue of negotiations is a matter of time, again, you always rely on the position of ukraine and the west, and there is the position of moscow, and russia does not want to postpone any negotiations. i i absolutely do not understand the idea that if ukraine has a stronger position, russia

will be ready for negotiations. i do not have such a vision. i believe that if ukraine will have a strong position, it will simply mean that we will be able to free some more part of our territory. however, i once explained that even the exit of ukraine to international borders in 1991, which does not mean either the end of the war or any negotiations, that there must be completely different conditions for overturning, and i absolutely agree with the director of the central settlement office that ukraine needs help, because otherwise it will be very difficult for our armed forces to maintain the positions they occupy today, and we may lose some settlements, this is an absolute reality, but the question of helping ukraine, unfortunately, is not the only one to be decided. the administration of the president of the united states and not only the director of the central intelligence agency, but also the american congress, which we do not yet see obvious tendencies to solve the issue with this help. yes, and this is extremely disturbing to all of us, because it does not leave the feeling that that he did not apply certain possible, promising, additional other programs. well,

at one time they voted and passed the bill on lendlis, so this story is extremely important, but it is currently sagging, so history. we have already been talking about etecoms for two years, almost every week, and it seems that the americans are now maturing, if the wall street journal is to be believed, to this decision, this is a serious story, this is a strategic story, but the publication of the wall steel journal does not mean who is actually the president of the united states joseph biden will sign this decision, so we understand that it may again lead to a dead end. the position of the united states. as they would see in reality, that is, we understand that there is a declarative beautiful policy, there are absolutely beautiful press conferences, there is also american real policy, and in reality it can also undergo certain corrections, even taking into account the fact that they started

talking about , that russia was ready to use nuclear weapons in 2022, i don't know if this is true or not, but another informational impulse appeared, a certain me... which testifies, as it were, to all the seriousness of putin to start a nuclear war, well, at least at its tactical level? i do not know what the united states sees as a solution to this situation, because i think that no one knows it, that is the problem of this war, that no one knows how to get out of it, i think that vladimir putin does not really understand either , how to get out of it, if he wants to get out of it at all, and if he doesn't even want to get out of it, he doesn't really understand where he should stop and where the real thing should be... end of story on on the borders of ukraine or on the borders of the soviet union in 1991, and for what time he may have some plans, but these plans must be implemented, not just written on paper and signed. and we already understand that everything is not going according to plan with putin, so i

always explain that there are no predictions in war, i am just one of those conflicts from which no one knows how to get out. if we're talking about the use of nuclear weapons as real or as bluff, we've ... seen this formula that general mike milley expressed, and i think that it is quite close to reality, that the paradox of the situation is that the more successful ukraine is on the battlefield, the greater the probability of russia's use of nuclear weapons, and the less success there is, the less likely it is. and how the united states should respond to the use of nuclear weapons by russia, no one knows either. they are discussing the possibility of striking russian positions , of course. weapons, but of course any american president who makes such a decision will be aware that russia may strike back and then the third world war, even without nuclear weapons, it may be conventional weapons, but there are enough other weapons to wage this war even without the use of troops, so the situation

is not easy, and in principle, i think what he said general milli, it corresponds to the realities, that in principle in the west they may believe that this conflict should continue, that... ukraine should not be supported, its statehood should be preserved, but so that it does not cause some, i would say, a political earthquake with a real transition before the third world war or before nuclear. well, in this way, this is a normal way out of a syrian-type conflict, and we are in principle already in it, we are just living in it for the first years, but we can live for quite a long time, well, just the current prime minister of poland, donald tusk, who at one time headed the executive of the european union, said a pretty telling line a couple of weeks ago, which is actually, well , much more important than just, you know, a set of diplomatic tearful words, we've started to take seriously or take seriously the... the fact that voiced by putin, we remember that a couple of years ago in ukraine, not only in ukraine

, there was talk of rattling weapons, some disparaging assessments of putin's willingness to shed blood from the hundreds of thousands of people killed, a lot of politicians and not only politicians, political experts and pseudo-parapolitical experts, they did not take the threat seriously, yes, but now it is changing... this concept of world security, perhaps the world continental structure, new bodies appear, new leaders appear, and here we are seriously trying to analyze, which messages, in particular, the cannibalistic messages that putin has been voicing over the next couple of weeks, i would ask italy to analyze and present its vision, you know, i always take seriously what vladimir putin says, what dmitry medvedev says. always urged to take this seriously because these are really important things and

to neglect this schizophrenic political was always very dangerous but unfortunately it happened, i hope this is also a great lesson to the whole civilized world, however again, i repeat, i do not see any new narratives of statements, for me it is precisely the fact that he remains on the same narratives that he has been on for two years that is disturbing. because these two years of war did not change his position at all, both regarding the war in ukraine, and regarding who should be talked to about this war, and regarding the so-called security guarantees of russia, and regarding the possibility of using nuclear weapons by russia, and regarding the possibility partition of ukraine between the countries that have borders with it, he also spoke quite frankly about it today, yes that the fact that putin keeps his positions and does not change them and nothing can, so to speak... turn to reality, is a very problematic and serious matter.

mr. vitaly, it sounds fatalistic, but on the other hand , we understand that there are certainly some ways to put putin in his place, the only question is whether those who can influence it want to do it, yes, in particular, we understand that well, putin is not immortal, as a minimum, he can be physically eliminated, these are all the same ridiculous conversations as trying to kill fidelyak. which is there how many times has the central intelligence been carried out dozens of times fidel castro died his own death and led cuba all his life, you see, when you think that there are some other ways to put putin in his place, then putin also thinks that you think so, and for sure, has certain lines of security and certain possibilities to protect his life when he is the president of the russian federation from those who think that everything has to do with his personality, this is the first moment, then i would like to remind you that we have... not with personality, but with the vertical power, where practically everyone shares these ideas,

the vertical of power created by the federal security service of the russian federation, and if you imagine that vladimir putin will not be killed there by someone there or something or that he will simply die his own death, i don't know when 2030 or 2036 year, you can't, you know, it's like a war, you can't know when the physical death of this or that person will happen, if you're not the author of some sensational telegram channel, then the situation can develop towards... greater radicalization of the authorities, on a larger scale war, because the person who may be putin's heir will see him as indecisive and will believe that what putin has not implemented must be implemented immediately, and then we will really face a war like we have never seen, and maybe liberalization of power from the point of view of stopping , let's say, active aggressive actions, that is , using the experience of the soviet union, it could be the time after 1924, when stalin came to power... stalin, we got a real radical regime on the territory of this country, or it could be the situation of 1953 , when after

after the death of stalin, his heirs decided that they, let's say, do not want to continue the korean war, however, we do not know how it will be for the worse or for the better, in order to find out, you need to live until the moment of the physical death of the president of the russian federation or the transfer to them power in the way that he decides for himself, it is possible to say that someone out there who will put putin in his place cannot be put in the place of the president of a huge state. with a huge network of special services, the president of the state, which itself kills its own enemies in any corner of the world, which itself carries out measures, which special services are civilized. countries cannot carry out, any person who thinks about the possibility of removing the president of the russian federation always remembers that the same blow can be inflicted on him in response, so these are such gentlemen's agreements that are not violated, as a rule, in the modern world, because everyone has their own special services, everyone has their own opportunities to kill the opponent, and as you understand, the very behavior of the leaders

of the democratic world who go out into the streets, who communicate with voters, who take various measures from them. and so on, gives much more opportunities to eliminate them than to eliminate putin or sydzenpin. but there is another important point, these are electoral politicians, you know? each of them understands that he has been in power for, well, 10 years at the most, well , somewhere around 12, and the question always arises, why should he give the order to kill someone when his term of office is about to end, why should he shorten the life of himself and his countrymen , in the situation in question about the fact that further... events may be the area of ​​responsibility for his heirs, that is an extremely important point, well, i can agree, and if we talk about an attempt, an attempt, i emphasize the forecast of where this one will go after the process of putin's re-appointment is completed, where the military-political machine of russia is moving,

we understand that putin needs it as legitimation in the eyes of his own people on the one hand, and on the other. he very often, so to speak, liked such procedures, and it is at the same time a certain sounding, a certain measurement moods, we understand that it would be best sociology, the sociology of war, total war, or war at the current level, i honestly do not understand what anton's sociology can be in a situation where the elections will of course be falsified, well, they are elections, self-determination, but they will see the reactions in the regions, they will hear. so to speak, one or the other, i don't know, assessments of the situation, well, plus the key story, they will see the real number, it will be classified, no one will know, yes, but they will still see how they voted, and they will to operate with this, which means that this is a kind of mini-referendum or maxi -referendum on the topic of war and putin's course,

of course, so if there is not enough support for the war, there will be a strengthening of totalitarianism, that is... that the russians want to be in a situation status quo, they should unanimously vote for putin, because if it turns out that putin will feel insecure, he will behave like lukashenko. here, look at the year 2020, it became obvious that the belarusian president does not enjoy the support of his own compatriots, and this led both to the crushing of protests and to the strengthening of totalitarian ambitions of lukashenka himself. so, in that regard, it seems to me absolutely obvious that any ... protest vote, although i don't believe in it at all, can lead to the regime concluding that it is necessary, and the regime, the regime in a position to draw conclusions as such, that is, from such situations, or this is the flywheel, the inertia of death, the inertia of war and preparation, i don’t know, there before the third national war, what they had sewn for this in further actions, no, well what does conclusions mean

they will draw conclusions that if the support of the people is insufficient, it must be strengthened. power apparatus, increase the number of the federal security service of the russian federation, increase the number of those who work in the ministry of internal affairs of the russian federation, special forces, well, these are the conclusions, the correct conclusions of totalitarianism , not to change the policy, but to strengthen the force component. mr. vitaly, let me also ask you about the exercises , naval maneuvers currently being conducted by china, russia, and iran and other countries in the gulf of oman. it is called now these days they are passing and the goal is the official strengthening of cooperation at sea and the joint guarantee of regional security at sea, but we understand that the real goal can be and is different, and actually, isn’t this already a kind of demonstration of how they plan to confront their enemies. well, i think that these

countries are not hiding it, they are strategic allies, but we are constantly trying to pretend that this is not the case, but they are absolutely calm and not... they just make declarations there, but really conduct joint military exercises, and this is the second russian, chinese, iranian military exercise at sea since the previous one was in 2023, now in 2024. china, by the way, conducted military exercises with pakistan, and this is such a signal for india, which is trying to improve its strategic relations with the united states of america, so there is no doubt that there is such news. and military solidarity as well, there is talk of stabilizing the situation in the indian ocean, but it sounds very funny against the background of what iran, which is actually using. sith for blockade of shipping in the red sea simultaneously conducts training with russia and china to stabilize the shipping situation. so it is absolutely obvious

that these are signals that the countries advocating for a multipolar world in which autocracies will have fixed spheres of influence are rallying, these are absolutely correct and logical conclusions from beijing, moscow, and tehran. yes, vitaliy, and we would also like a forecast for the american race. as well as extremely different signals that the candidate has been giving off over the past couple of weeks, former president donald trump, this is a story about money, about his plans, we understand that in general, well, trump does not want to limit himself in rhetoric, so his key task is not even just to win power, to take power, no, not winning the elections the main thing, and here it is extremely important to try to predict how the situation will develop with... taking into account, so to speak, the credit history of donald trump and the credit rhetoric of donald trump, well, first of all, we are interested in helping us, and i don't know, the president

of the united states the new member of staff will be in his position in a year, who knows what will happen this year, who knows who will be elected president of the united states, who knows how this new president will behave in completely different circumstances, if we were to say that now is february march 2024. and we discuss how trump will behave, we could tell a story about his behavior in this situation, who knows what will happen in february or march 2025, there may already be dozens of new conflicts, there will already be a new situation in the middle east , new wars, now every month something is happening that is not could be predicted, so i think you have to wait until november 2024 and then until february 2025 and predict something, i think that donald trump himself does not really understand what he will do in the white house if he gets there, so that he does not know... what the challenges will be, no, he simply constantly gives very different signals, in particular that he knows how and what to negotiate with putin, orbán's visit seems to demonstrate that, so to

speak, a man of certain views, a kind of hungarian lukashenko, so to speak, went, bowed, beasts in watches, yes, well, and this means that it will also be projected on the history of central europe, and this is a story not only about ukraine, it is possible history. about romania, maybe about moldova, maybe about countries, i think that there is no such connection, obviously, what donald trump says does not matter at all, because he himself, i think, does not really see how he will act for himself in these conditions, because again, he does not imagine these conditions, the fact that viktor orban went to him, well, viktor orban is one of the leaders of the right-wing forces in europe, not only in the central ones, these forces are getting stronger, these are the forces that usually support trumpism in europe, it's not only orban, it's... the far-right in italy, who are already at the head of the government , these are the far-rights in austria , who may win the parliamentary elections in the autumn, these are the far-rights in spain, without which

the center-right cannot even hope that they will come to power, these are the far-rights in the netherlands, who already want to form a government after winning the parliamentary elections elections, it is the ultra-right portugal, which right now also cannot form a stable government without the help of the center-right, is ultra. in france, who claim to win the presidential elections in the future, it is the far right in germany, which is getting stronger every month in terms of the ratings of the alternative for germany, we are now talking about the far right march, and it must be understood that this march somehow corresponds to the political for the purposes of donald trump, because this is exactly the europe he would like to do business with. mr. vitaly, we have literally a minute left, emmanuel macron, what now what is happening to him, if we... with such broad strokes, why did he start to declare himself so radically now? i think that emmanuel macron wants to create a situation of strategic ambiguity in relations with russia regarding these troops, to force

vladimir putin to react to this, by the way, vladimir putin is reacting, very actively, he reacted in his message to the federal assembly of the russian federation, he reacted in his the interview with dmitry kiselov is quite detailed, it is obvious that all this makes him nervous, because he is absolutely not calculated for such a situation, on the other hand , we do not understand how real the intentions of the french president are, how much... he will be ready not just to make a statement and to implement his plans, because we see that a large number of western countries, it is not is supported by this idea, so that macron is trying to be a leader from the point of view of this kind of declarative support for ukraine and create this situation of strategic ambiguity, but real actions are needed here, because we see that every month macron's visit to the ukrainian capital is postponed, precisely because he wants not just to make a speech here, but to offer something real and is looking for this reality, which he cannot. yet to find thank you, mr. vitaly. unfortunately, we have to let you go. vitaly portnikov, publicist and journalist was on our air. antin and i are saying goodbye to you today. see you tomorrow in this studio at

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it's 5 p.m. in ukraine, and to your attention is a news release on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval, greetings to all viewers. the russians shelled vovchansk in the kharkiv region. blow a two-story building was damaged by a controlled aerial bomb. there may be people under the rubble, the regional police said. meanwhile, the number of dead as a result of the shahed attack on sumy increased to two. during the analysis of the rubble of a five-story residential building, rescuers found the body of the second dead person, the state emergency service reported. the rescue operation is ongoing. currently, eight

victims are known. the house is damaged. 30 apartments, 15 of them with...