saw on the networks, made by halyna kruko, a poet, and what is important for us, a teacher of literature at the franko university of lviv. halyna says that illiterate or unclear wording, yes, regarding poets, regarding the work of poets, regarding their personalities, regarding historical events, may not help such a potential target audience, teenagers, yes, on the contrary. to disorient them, halyna kruk is in touch with us, galya, i congratulate you, good evening, thank you for finding the opportunity to join, good evening, we are talking now, here is lyuba already spoke about mykhailo semenko, as well as the interpretation of mykhailo semenko in the poet, in the teromantika project, you wrote very clearly.

theses about, about your comments, yes, about this project, please tell me what worries you about this project, in particular, i ask you to comment on the personality of tychyna, the ukrainian people's republic and the january uprising, for example, how, how it is presented , well, actually, here... a few moments, on which, unfortunately, all the criticism that was directed there at my, at my analysis, at my remarks, it sounded like some the teacher demands that we actually read correctly, as we should read, that not always the project must adhere to some accuracy, at least not always the audience who will watch the musical. such

material, he wants to know the details of the details and be sure that they are exactly that. unfortunately , there is actually a greater demand for pop projects , especially if they are also focused on a youth audience or on people who are not too familiar with certain material, because we are dealing here with soft power, that is, we are dealing here with ... with soft power, which by the means of music, by the means of dramatic , dramatic art, suggests something to us in a certain way, that is, creates a certain emotional image for us, an emotional attachment to this or that material, and if, say, certain words are used in this context and not others, then we we will have a corresponding impression. of that text, which

will be fixed emotionally for a long time, as it does, say, advertising, if in this context the penis is pale and pitiful, then it is clear that it will look, will be remembered, by the one who will watch this project without critical instruction, without checking it somewhere in some other sources, this person will perceive the stamen as exactly this pale, pitiful, and if there are theses... regarding the stamen, very strong, by the way , statements that the blood on his hands , that, accordingly, he is a cotton candy, that he is responsible for, er, that many people died because of him, he betrayed someone, that is, these are very strong images, which in this situation should be approached very carefully , because creating a negative impression about a person... without reinforcing it,

very easy, then it will be much more difficult for us to whiten the stamen, and, let's say, it is projected onto the whole other culture, because the reader who will remember the stamen is exactly the one who sought to become the minister of culture at any cost, supposedly, what does it look like from this, from this project, in fact, he will not buy a book of an anthology of poetry called from techyna to zhadan, because he will... understand that techyna is clearly not the one he is interested in. the same things and the same inaccuracies appear there in the text and in relation to historical circumstances. you know when to really start for the material that is called, which refers to the shot revival, and this material is aimed at wide circles, the important point is to say, then, at least to hint, who shot this revival, in this... in

the project, unfortunately, at this moment, there is not even a hint about who is to blame for the shot revival, that is, the person who finds himself in front of this material. there she receives information that a civil war is going on, that is, ukrainians on one side are killing ukrainians on the other side, the wave, as we later understand from one composition, is fighting with nationalists, he kills nationalism, accordingly whoever will watch it, i understand that he can then dig deeper and start to find out for himself, but in fact this inaccuracy is a nuance... and the material that i will give, which is already there from yes, it did not have to arise there, that is, before that, especially in the situation of material that arises during the war, one must be very, very careful, because it is very easy to create a false impression, especially by such means, and accordingly, when there i

analyzed a lot moments, i understand that many people who do not orient themselves in the material and want ease in everything, i met these comments that it is so stifling, which is imposed on us for some reason, and we just want to listen to the music and remember, yes galya, i'm sorry, stop it you, in fact, there is such an opinion that ceromancy is actually a product for teenagers, and that when academic scientists or intellectuals begin to analyze this product in full seriousness, then it is the same for us to compare. a magazine-adviser with a critic's edition, who said, you don't need to be so serious with this one with a magnifying glass to approach actually to this to this rap opera? on the contrary, if it is material for children or teenagers, it should be approached with a much more careful er, actually

have a much more careful approach to it, because does not mean children's or adolescent material does not mean made simpler and... more compelling, it means that done more thoughtfully and actually much more attentive to details, the way psychologists actually proofread children's books before they appear, that's a normal approach and a normal practice, but just deciding that we're going to do it much with less effort, because we are directing it at a teenage-child audience, this is a misconception, because from this teenage, this teenage... will perceive exactly what is said in this, in this musical, let's call it, yes, although it is not quite musical, she will take it much more directly, and in many cases she will not check if she does not

have someone to direct her, who will explain difficult points to her, in fact, my work for more than 20 years with young people, with students and ... with teenagers, she proves, that in fact it will just be a false impression, because nowhere, yes gal, i'm sorry, i understand correctly that you have, you have reservations about this phrase this rain for a long time, and what is actually called the war of the ukrainian people's republic against bolshevik russia, and there is no clear definition, and it is simply called this rain. or for a long time? did i understand correctly that it is precisely such wordings that you consider vague? yes, because there is no talk about the fact that there is a war between the ukrainian people's republic and soviet russia, that is, there is no mention of

the second participant in this conflict, it is mentioned there it is as veiled as possible about some kind of ethnic cleansing, which, in fact, into which this rain turns, that it is not about purity. about ethnic cleansing , but nowhere is it said who carries out these cleansings, against whom they are directed, as well as nowhere, let's say, when the story about khvylovy was chosen and about this tragedy of khvylovy, then for some reason exactly this replica of khvylovy was chosen for the final scene about the fact that he was a communist, that he, in fact, with whom he fought, with the nationalists, and it ends with the death of ... a waveman, and let's say, a person who is not too aware, who is building her identity now, and now there are quite a lot of such people , who, if she wants to understand, it will be very difficult for her to understand what happened, and for me such a moment as, for example, also mentioning that

the unr is suppressing the uprising in the arsenal factory , that is, how to perceive this phrase, if you are already talking, the january bolshevik uprising, which we all... that is exactly what you can call who started the uprising, but it turns out that we are dealing only with the unr, which aggressively, suppresses some kind of rebellion, i.e. such... there are a lot of omissions, omissions in this text, of course there are a lot of people who praised it, i understand that they did not always listen to all the details and all the details, but believe me, when i see all these reviews under the video that say, i listened 10 times, i make all my students re-listen to this material, that is, in fact, this is a variant of such an extraordinary , uncritical attitude towards this material, it conditions, it scares, because after this

material, if you do not approach it critically, we will have not quite the right one perception, if, say, i, fighting russian narratives abroad, understand why they arose there, then when i come across similar things in a ukrainian project made during the war, it scares me. galyu, you said about the teacher, but i can't help but pick up the topic, if possible, stay in touch with us for just a few minutes, i will first ask lyuba yakymovych, and then i will forward the same question to you, the actor yevhenii yanovych, who is part of this project, he participated in the thermomantics project, he is the one i read that he worked in kvn, the team kpi, and on the basis of this... kpi national team , mama khahatala studio was founded, right? and

here he, as a participant in the project, writes that you and i, critics of t-romance, we are not critics, by the way, we will also say about the big pluses of this project, these are mothballed academic watchmen and dinosaurs, whose criticism, i am quoting , does not reach a wide audience, and we look postironic with you against the background of reality. works, what do you say about this, i am very interested, well , you can stir up a lot of trouble as much as you want, and the father, for example, of the main author, the author texts, sashka khomenka, oleksandr also came to me in the comments in order to call me names and mix with dirt, then he deleted his comment, good people made a screenshot and did not apologize, he wrote such an enthusiastic comment, you see what it is, well, that is. .. on the one hand, this is a way to defend yourself, aggression is always a way to defend yourself, that is, or attack

instead of defense, but on the other hand, such a defiant attitude towards the community, which really understands this situation professionally, they did not thank that they had to do, they had to say: "thank you for your comments, we will take them into account, for example, in the next projects, we will involve them". scientist, this is an adult approach, the approach that we see here, this approach is really adolescent, but let’s face it, they talk a lot about teenagers, this is an adolescent approach of immature people, even if they are mature in age, who perceive and react in this way , but teenagers, i ’m sorry, they have hormonal changes, it’s hard for them to control their emotions, they... develop a cortex, a neocortex, and this, these people are already mature,

who already have a neocortex, in particular yanovich, i have it, i am sure of it, he looks like a healthy person, and this is a very immature approach, in my opinion, well, but they will tell you what to do better, look, and we have hundreds of thousands of views, we have platforms, we have... we have a product that we made, and you teachers, mothballs, come and teach us how to live, and here i am, by the way, i want to forward this question to galina kruk, galya, i will ask you about navtalinovyh’s accounts, but i will make it a little more complicated question, with a quote from oksana forostyna , a writer who says that here are these neophytes with their money and status... they ended up in this place because those who did not fit into the moscow-centric model were not allowed there, and not

only because of language, but and aesthetically, and now, on the second day after their conversion , they behave with the usual aplomb, as if nothing had happened, ignoring those who for 30 years prepared the ground so that they could see now, even not all of them remained alive, let alone in the profession of these people , who prepared the soil, or isn't this, in your opinion, gal... evidence of a deeper split, here actually in society , yes, among one's own, yes, because it is all one's own, yes, conditionally, one's own, but which testifies to the fact that there is no communication between those , who converted. recently and who has been immersed in ukrainian culture for a long time, doesn't this tell you about this split yet? eh, yes, this is a sign of a much deeper problem, which we have actually reached now, about which the latest scandals and the latest discussions in the ukrainian environment

testify, indeed people who for a very long time worked in the field of ukrainian culture before... this project in fact, there was a whole series of projects that excellently presented and worked with ukrainian literature from the renaissance or later times, in fact none of these, none of these projects had such a wide audience, such opportunities to enter to a mass audience, as this project received. here you can analyze why this happened, but it happened... not by itself, this is a topic for a separate conversation, and let's say, when in this situation people receive an informational resource, and begin to displace, at least from the field of ukrainian culture of those who have worked there for a long time, by devaluing, by humiliating, then in fact the problem

is that communication alone will not work, that is... then you need to develop clear rules on how to deal with this, and the worst thing is me upset in this situation, actually the people who created a very good advertisement for this project, that is, if in fact , this is, by the way, a very big, very big problem, the question, if you do not have the opportunity to see such an important project in its entirety, but you just listened to him a little bit about 5 minutes. and conclude that this is actually a very useful, high-quality and generally brilliant project, then we doom ourselves to the fact that in some time we will all be pushed out of this field, because we are dealing with much more aggressive cultural actants, with people , who are used to working in a completely different segment, and i am speaking here not

only as a person, as a teacher and as a person who is a writer myself, i am speaking here as a person. who studied 20 years ago, defended her dissertation on the topic of mass culture, that is, i know how the mechanisms of this mass culture work, i know what are the requirements for this, in fact, what are the requirements for it, and what i advise, accordingly, in this situation, it is based on some, on some certain intellectual level, and therefore, when i am tried to simply throw it out of this process, it is natural that... i interpret it as aggression in my pain, and aggression, unfortunately, is not directed at me personally, at the segment of culture that we represent, and let's say, er, here i would like to draw attention to the fact that people who have worked in ukrainian culture for a very long time, but those who worked and intended to work with

mass culture, they are sometimes fascinated by this new, let's say, very active trend, which... appears, it seems to them that they can just step there with one foot, and everything will happen at once, the whole fireworks and everything will open, immediately this shot revival can suddenly be taken with any hands and make a comedy out of it, unfortunately, it is shot, that is, it is a very bloody material, and it is clear that we can throw out all the bloody moments from it, but from it will not become a comedy, that is... but this one is for me moment is very important to realize that we have to work with certain material very carefully, and we have to be careful about what we uncritically accept and advertise to a much wider range of people, because it depends, control your words, as shakespeare said, because from your future depends on it, in

this situation we have, in a situation of war, our future depends a lot on it. shall we name the culprit in the war between the ukrainian people's republic and soviet russia, shall we say that it is a civil war, shall we assume that khvylovyi died because he was a communist loyalists, and something went wrong here, or shall we say that the waveman died, because this was his price for his approach and his illusions about communist ideology. and actually it surprises me, because the same material can be presented much better, it can be presented through the prism of even the same wave, through the prism of the slogan away from moscow, it can be presented. through the prism of the slogan that existed in the literary discussion for 25-28 years, you give europe, that is , these are the theses that would be much

more relevant for us now, but in order to do this qualitatively, you need to be aware of this material, and not read about it only some short excerpts at the level of general facebook. that is, in fact, i'm just sorry that there is so much effort and talented people. people haven't read what is actually the essence of this project, the words on which or on which our future depends, thank you, i understand that it can be boring to talk about such things, about different moments, but in fact, for any light material , always what matters is what this material brings us and what it is in us, let's say, awakens, and here i would, in addition to this... joyful, perception that it is genius, i would think about what will remain from it in the dry residue. galya, thank you very much, halyna

kruk, poet, literary critic, teacher of literature at franka university of lviv , was in touch with us, and i will actually ask you the question about the split between the new converts to ukraine and those who were already in ukraine. is it possible to communicate in some way, how to deal with it, because one way or another we all have to understand each other, but it is worth mentioning here that this not the first wave of conversion to ukrainianism, so we previously had other waves during the language maidan, and during the orange revolution, and during the euromaidan, or the revolution of dignity, that is, and i also know that sashko khomenko, he says: about that that he studied at a russian school, i also studied at a russian-language school in luhansk oblast, i also studied at a russian school in kyiv, here, i grew up in luhansk oblast in a society where

ukrainian was spoken only by pensioners when they retired, my grandma suddenly started speaking in ukrainian, in a colloquial way local, yes, which for some reason many people call surzhik, but it is not surzhik, there is a big difference, but i don't know if this justifies someone or how. that is, many of us, even those who have been there for a long time in ukraine, came there deliberately and came, changing the language from russian to ukrainian, a lot, we can count there on the hands and feet of our writers, contemporaries of my generation and younger, who did it, but you have to understand that when you come to a new, well , some kind of space for you, you have to understand what is here, what planets are there, what are the rules of the game , what... are the physical laws here, as well as in literature, you need to understand, in general, what was done here, and judging by their interviews, they do not understand what is here was done, they don’t know foxtrots and zhidena and gorges, and

they don’t know, well, they don’t have understanding, they blame us, do it yourself, they don’t know that let’s show foxtrots, so foxtrots are a project of 2021, that’s right, which was made as part of an art exhibition. in the arsenal of photo novels and this project yuriy gurzhy, serhiy zhadana , lyuba yakemchuk supervised it all, oksana shchur is beautiful, and actually this too, actually this is a musical, musical-literary project, where what, where the voices of writers sound, the living voices of writers who managed to find at that time, that's how oksana found , which has great, great animated clips. where there is great music and where there is great reading of poetry, let's listen to an excerpt from foxtrots, and this is also about mykhailo semenka, please let the blood out, take away

all the prana, exchange from the chest my embarrassing beethoven all night until the morning, take, take my breath, energy is sewn, a new world, my body is for destruction, the spirit of the unknown is welcome. i was so bored today, as if oles, voronyi and choprinka had gathered together. it felt rainy and autumnal. the hairdresser strummed the guitar all day in the rain. sometimes i thought about her and made sketches of a letter that i didn't think she could hope for. to be him, remembered a few forgotten french phrases, looked twice at the image of christ, hummed banal waltzes silently while looking. the ceiling

in a dirty cobweb, no, it was just me sad, only sad, a melon was decaying in my heart, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, salami, hello. look, people who focus on views will tell you that focrot views are 210 00 there, but you romance in a week something 250 000 views on youtube, how do you explain that, what is your answer? well, it's a different segment of culture, firstly, secondly, and such popular stars as zhenya yanovych participate there.

who has his own youtube channel, and who has one in tromantika, i mean, and who had podcast therapy with the sensational spartak on saturday, as he legitimized it in principle with his participation, of course there is a desire, which is the same in this project, here, but the main thing is that their product is a product of mass culture, that is, our product is too... i'm trying to make it easier and more popular, and serhii wanted it, here, but after all, it's more to the poverty of such, after all , closer to high culture, and well, the quality is completely different, and i think musicians would like talked about music, i heard a lot of feedback about these projects, but here is oksana shchur, the curator of this project, says fokroty - this is a disco for a wide range of people who care, for you

and me, for students, activists. the culture of teachers and schoolchildren, but it did not become as wide as you and i would like, although i remember i was at the premiere and we all danced in the art arsenal, so it is very cool, but still, for some reason, some projects are different , they get more views, pr pr, i think first and foremost pr, of course, and people who are involved in pr, but also ... after a full-scale invasion, a request for shot revival, it has grown , it has grown significantly, appeared in ukraine in this, there are a lot of new people who are now learning about it, it came out very early this project, now appear, for example, the brand by me makes a clothing line dedicated to to the kurbas people of the kurbas theater, that is, a lot of everything appears in such people in the broad sense of culture, and besides, this is a very, very good time for

such a thing. and i, when, when we criticize, yes, it's not that we want to close, but to say, no, we will not let anyone into our ukrainian no new converts, no , we waited for you here for a very long time, we came here ourselves, too, and it was not so easy, to change the language, to write in ukrainian, and when you did not understand anything at all, the open space also came, but a lot of our writers and i , including them, did it, so we started a new wave, we were waiting, after the 22nd we were also waiting, i understood that there would be this new wave, and i am very glad that now there are big changes in stand-up, and in blogging, there the stars switch to ukrainian, and it hurts, yes, and they switch to them too, they are criticized, and it's again it hurts, you have to understand that we are all traumatized, traumatized ukrainian speakers who were persecuted

for using the ukrainian language in... traumatized russian speakers because people who speak russian have done something bad to their relatives in the past, this is how it sounds very clearly oksana zabushko, people are transgenerational trauma and they are now coming to the ukrainian language and they are afraid, they are afraid in a new space, just like people who study a new language abroad, it is not always easy, lyuba, please tell me we talked with you about the positives, about the pluses. this project certainly has pluses, and we see them with you, so you are a romantic, what is it, what did you like? and i liked the crazy energy that they really have, their team the team has, and if they rethink their approaches and really think about whether they are not broadcasting russian narratives, but think about how to clearly place what galya was talking about, the accents , then they can turn out

a really cool product and... ideologically safe, ecological.